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Krazybitch666

A discussion on Rigged Morality.

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Ok, so this is probably my first time posting in these forums and I'm sure some unsavory person will make a comment like "That's your first post!?", but I felt like this was something that needed drug into the light and examined.

 

Like many of the people here I LOVE expressing myself artistically. I love to be able to log into SL and just be myself. I love doing fun and interesting things with my Avatar, meeting new and interesting people, and seeing the cool ways they customized their avatars to express themselves.

UNFORTUNATELY, That individuality that I hold so so dearly is threatened not just for me, but for everyone. I'm talking specifically about Rigged Mesh Avatars. 

Now before anyone gets defensive  If you use a Mesh Avi that's fine. My problem isn't with the Mesh itself. I personally LOVE Mesh, but what I don't love is RIGGED Mesh.

 

Now people(store owners) will tell you that they rig their Mesh in order to protect their product or maybe even go so far as to try blowing smoke of you backside about how "its rigged for customer convenience."

Sadly, the truth is that its rigged because they want to corner the market, and here's how.

If a content creator creates a full body mesh avatar, then they can start designing EXCLUSIVE clothing for that specific body.
Now lets say you have a body you like already, but you've found a cool set of boots. Those boots are designed for the Le’douche full body mesh avatar, but you know they would like good on the avatar body you're already using.

In a perfect world, you could purchase those boots and re-size(stretch) and/or move them around to fit the avatar body you're already using, BUT the Le’Douche content creator has made sure that you cant do that by rigging those boots so you're unable adjust them as you need to, and thus making it so that those boots will only work properly if you buy the full Le’Douche Mesh body that they were designed to fit.

 

At first I seen it but didn't really care. I just wrote it off as crooked people with a crooked business model and continued with my lives(both first and second) as usual, but I've been playing this game now for 3 years(1111 days to be 100%) and It upsets me now to see so many Mesh avis are in the game and on the market. Again, Its not because I have anything against mesh or people that wear it, but because store owners being able to work this devious angel unchecked has come at the expense of creativity. 

Now Recently I'm just seeing the same avatar bases over and over again. I keep seeing my own Avatar several times a day with no actual differences between them and me other than a swapped color scheme with the same pattern, a different hair, and/or a different set of clothes. Its awful. Second Life use to be a place wherein MOST EVERYONE had their own unique look and style, but now everyone's starting to just look so generic because Greedy Mesh Vendors are sucking all life and creativity out of the community. Now I meet people and its just "Oh another one of those avatars”. 

I don't understand how RIGGING a mesh is in any way good for the consumer. All i want to do is be able to have a little control over the things I PAID FOR. be it scaling, moving, or just color matching. I cant help but feel like Content Creators are forcing us to use these products we are paying for in only the one single way they want us to use them while simultaneously trying to strong arm us into having to buy the body that goes with those boots I liked so much.

 

I paid for it. why can't I move it around, change the colors, or even scale it to the size I want? Maybe I wanted to make a fairy out of that avatar. Or maybe i wanted to scale it up to 7ft tall and be an ork. maybe I want to edit>stretch out a mesh boot so I can make it into a fantasy witch house, or turn a space helmet upside down and put flowers in it.

A Walmart representative isn't allowed to fallow me home and tell me what I'm can cook in my new crockpot, or stop me from turning it into a planter, so why is this OK in second Life?

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Rigging is what allows items to bend with the body.  Legs and arms must be rigged so that shoulders, elbows, hips, and knees actually behave like shoulders, elbows, hips, and knees.  For un-rigged attachments to do the same, every body part would have to be a separate piece and have some form of "doll joint" at each pivot.  I don't want doll joints unless I'm actually making my avatar into a doll. (^_^)

For more stationary items such as bracelets and glasses.  Sure, don't rig.  There's nothing to bend on those anyway.  Otherwise, rigging is a necessity for many visual effects. (^_^)

Also, I'm confused.  What game are you playing?  What level are you on and have you had any good bossfights lately?  Over nearly 10 years, I've noticed that people to tend to refer to SL as a "game" also tend to be the most disappointed in it.  (=_=)

Gamers also tend to be the least aware that content creation isn't a one-way street. Builders in SL aren't just like you and me, they ARE you and me.  There is no secret Cabal of staffed content creators.  Just randos with talent and the will to exploit their talents.  Some even expect to be reimbursed for it.  Making stuff is work and work has value.  You paid for what the maker sold, permissions and all.  Want something different?  Make it yourself or pay someone else.  (^_^)y

 

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At first I was reading everything you said thinking "Ok, this is helpful.", but then I got to paragraph 3 and seen your attack.

I don't appreciate the way you took one line out of 13 paragraphs "I've been playing this game for 3 years now" ran with that and nothing but that to try to warp and twist everything else i said in a bad way. you self righteously made grossly inappropriate assumptions about me as a person and my personality lumping me into a group you called "Gamers" based entirely on nothing but 9 words out of the roughly 774 words that make up my Opening post.

I would like to think that I'm maybe taking offense where there was none intended, but i suspect there was some malice intent there, and i cant help but want to question the truthfulness and validity of your first two paragraphs as you are the owner of the "Darkly Cute" store and have an obvious conflict of interest.

These Permission locks and Fixing/Rigging of things that don't need to be restricted is the reason why so many players resort to using Copybot style viewers and Texture rippers.

I personally don't steal things nore would i ever encourage anyone to steal, BUT when people are told "You cant use it that way." by the content creator after paying for an item, I can see why they would get fed-up and resort to such low methods.

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You are buying a product as it is. If it doesn't fit your specific needs due to the nature of how its made, well...thats unfortunate, but nothing to be offended by. If you can't find what you are looking for and generally feel that all the creators are doing it wrong, its maybe time to step up and create your own things. Maybe you have a market for those things right there, for others, who feel like you do.

The only thing I see different here is the motivation for people who use copybot viewers. Those people probably care very little about how much they can edit products that they brought. They aren't different from any other thief. They steal, because they want something, but have neither the will or the skill to work or pay for it. They have always done that, even before mesh was "a thing".

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I'm not going to lie. I have really and truly considered going that route and just making my own stuff, but honestly my experience with blender is VERY VERY limited, and in the end I would just be making sub-par versions of things I like but cant edit to fit my Avi right.

Rigged Mesh items just completely go against the spirit of what makes second life great. people can Argue that Customization and creativity weren't ever in the original vision of second life, but then why is there originally so many different ways built within the game to build things and edit all the little bits and components of your avatar?

 

Its so easy for a content creator to just shrug and go "You're F**ked". It doesn't matter to them. they sold you something and made their profit already. To them, even speaking to you after is more an act or charity or an attempt at getting a good reputation. There are so many things that are rigged that just don't need to be, but they are just for the sake of making you consider buying the Mesh Avi its designed to go with.

Mesh Avatars are pretty to look at, but in the end they just paved the way for a corrupt business model, and ultimately did more harm than good to the bulk of the community that comes on here to play in game sims, RP a story, express their creativity, or just hang out with friends. 

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Krazybitch666 wrote:

Rigged Mesh items just completely go against the spirit of what makes second life great. 

I disagree.  I think they are a naturally evolved conclusion from what SL was made to be.  A better mouse trap as it were.

 

I love my shoes.  It's like a joke between my friends and I but it is my most classical girly quirk.  I have literally thousands (literally, as in way more than 2000)  of pre-mesh shoes now stored in a few prims.  Most of those took a lot of time on a pose stand to position, size and often color the prim toes just the right shade.  They usually had 2 foot and 2 ankle pieces to edit . 

Now, however, I attach one single item to my left foot and boom.  Done.  Sized, positioned and 1/4 the number of attachment points used. I get everything I want or need with significantly less time and resources.  I don't see how you can hand wave customer convenience as blowing smoke.  Unless, of course, you are just blowing smoke.

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Calls SL a "game" + is disappointed in SL = typical.  

It's just like people who complain about crazy lag and textures never loading being on DSL/Wireless.  Sure, correlation is not causation, but 99.9999% of the time I've assisted someone over lag and loading issues, they were on DSL and/or wireless.  Not to say there aren't dozens of other people with no DSL issues.  I've used DSL and even hotel wireless to get on SL trouble free.  (^_^)

It also appears you still have no understanding of why or how rigging is used.  You're putting too much energy in being offended over 'gamers' being some sort of slur instead of referring to people who call SL a "game".  (By the way, you never told me what level you're on.) (^_^)

As for my store, you should see it.  It's quite janky and still made up of the prim cookie jar I made in 2008.  Though, I am selling 1 rigged mesh item lately.  Mind you, one made compatible with the Kemono avatar, given its anime theme.  It would be interesting to see how I'd actually have anything to gain by pointing out that rigging is how knees and elbows work.  Even then, we're still miles away from the actual definition of "conflict of interest".  (^_^)y

 

Now, time to go use my toaster in a way the store has told me not to... Hm, bathtub?  Small woodland creatures? (>.>)

 

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Krazybitch666 wrote:

I don't understand how RIGGING a mesh is in any way good for the consumer.

If you don't rig mesh it won't bend.

Take boots. If you wear unrigged boots and your pose bends your foot, it pokes out of the boots. When they are rigged they don't poke out.

Surely if you have played for 1111 days then you know this? "If you don't rig mesh it won't bend."

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Callum Meriman wrote:


Krazybitch666 wrote:

I don't understand how RIGGING a mesh is in any way good for the consumer.

If you don't rig mesh it won't bend.

Take boots. If you wear unrigged boots and your pose bends your foot, it pokes out of the boots. When they are rigged they don't poke out.

Surely if you have played for 1111 days then you know this? "
If you don't rig mesh it won't bend."

Trying to see the immorality in that. :smileyindifferent:

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Pamela Galli wrote:

Trying to see the immorality in that. :smileyindifferent:

Immorality is such an ugly word.  I prefer to call it unencumbered by chastity.

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You seem to run on the assumption that creators are here to work for you, to build what you want and to make you happy.  Sorry, that isn't how life works, real or virtual.  It's not the creators job to make your dreams a reality, that is your job.  It's your job to find the items to put together to make the look that you want and if you purchase something knowing the perms aren't what you want or that it's rigged and you don't like rigged, that is your fault, not the creators.

It is the creators job to make sure the customer knows all the information about the product they are selling, but, again, it's NOT their job to conform their builds or their vision to what you want.  They aren't ripping people off because they build something in a manner that you don't approve of, nor do they make near enough money or get near enough respect to put up with people that have entitlement issues.

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The wages of Sin are Death!

 

But... The perks are great and the wicked get to go home early on Fridays and lie in bed on Sundays...

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Krazybitch666 wrote:

<snip>

These Permission locks and Fixing/Rigging of things that don't need to be restricted is the reason why so many players resort to using Copybot style viewers and Texture rippers.

I personally don't steal things nore would i ever encourage anyone to steal, BUT when people are told "You cant use it that way." by the content creator after paying for an item, I can see why they would get fed-up and resort to such low methods.

No, the reason someone uses a copybot style viewer or texture ripper is because they are a thief. Period.

Five fingered shopping logic is still nothing less than thievery.

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I won't berate you for your first post but I do think you're making wild assumptions about rigged meshes. For mesh bodies to work appropriately, it must be rigged. As the first person to respond stated, if you do not rig the mesh bodies, you'll have joints that look like a doll and each piece of the body would indeed need to be seperate. Additionally, if the body was seperate pieces, the animations from AO's, poses, dances, etc. would look very clunky instead of flowing, for the most part, seamlessly like they do with rigged mesh. Most body creators do not corner their market either because they give their rigging kits to OTHER content creators allowing them to profit as well.

As for the boots that you were discussing, there are plenty of content creators out there that still make rigged, fitted, and unrigged versions for their shoes. [Gos] is a good example of this. 

If you're worried about individuality and would still like some mesh body parts, i would highly recommend going with a bento mesh head so that you can customize how you would like.

 

I hope I understood you well and hope that I helped!

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Rhonda Huntress wrote:


Pamela Galli wrote:

Trying to see the immorality in that. :smileyindifferent:

Immorality is such an ugly word.  I prefer to call it unencumbered by chastity.

I think I need new glasses. I read that as uncucumbered. Oh boy.

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So let me get this straight.

you are a creative person and come here to be creative but.

because some creators make rigged mesh stuff you no longer can be creative.

sounds to me like you really arn't all that creative to start with.

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Your arguments are ridicules.  You have no idea what you're talking about rigging.

Don't complain if you buy something that isn't what you want and don't expect the creator to make an exception just for you after you buy something and change permissions.

Personally I love my rigged mesh items.  They move with my avatar, i can attach them at any point and they always snap into place where they are supposed to be.  Prior to rigging 9 times out of 10 when I bought something I had to spend time moving the item around to get it where it should be.  And things like boots, long sleeves and skirts were clunky looking and not realistic looking at all.

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Pamela Galli wrote:

Sometimes when people get spanked 

(Checks we are in the adult section)

That's what stops me joining another certain SL forum of three letters, ending in U. I just know I would be spanked hard.

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Callum Meriman wrote:


Pamela Galli wrote:

Sometimes when people get spanked 

(Checks we are in the adult section)

That's what stops me joining another certain SL forum of three letters, ending in U. I just know I would be spanked hard.

I thought a prerequisite to surviving in SL was being a glutton for punishment.

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