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StoneCold Firehawk

BENTO CLUB NEEDED...

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:womantongue:Okay, having invested so heavily in just about eveything for BENTO - Mesh bodies, LeLutka Bento Mesh Head, Mesh Hands by Vista - AO and all... it's a shame that there isn't a CLUB for all those who have done the same.

We need a club where all those WEARING their BENTO AVI bodies and hands can go and ALL THERE can see ALL OF YOU... especially considering how many in SL still using the old viewers so they see deformed hands, and eyeballs and teeth and a brain or two, hahahaha....

Is something like this in the works or should I just invest in such a club? Who's talking this? I hope someone is! A club with Dj's - for all kinds of music - ballroom and otherwise... dinner party settings, a place to sit and play greedy - and the bar hang out life and trivia...  sure hope I get a reply telling me there already is one.

I shall be waiting... :matte-motes-big-grin:

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ehm... i don't really see the need for a club/ group for that ..simply EVERYBODY on sl is bento now... just not all are able to use it because of the design of their stuff.

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AmberSwann wrote:

You must be in an exclusive group I don't know about. Because MANY are not... oh well... 

Bento is a feature built into each and every avatar in SL and I suppose that's what Alwin means. All those extra bones aren't actually doing anything unless they have some animation to operate them though and they won't do anything useful unless there are some mesh thingies attached to them.

As for a Bento club, that would be an interesting experiment: how many active Bento avatars can your computer manage at the same time before it melts... ;)

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AmberSwann wrote:

You must be in an exclusive group I don't know about. Because MANY are not... oh well... 

Bento is a feature thats implemented by Linden Lab into the general avatar skeleton. Its not tied to mesh, a third party viewer or anything else that could even be remotely exclusive. Its there. For everyone. No opt in, no opt out.

The only two things that may help to keep the illusion of it being "exclusive" are 3 main things:

1.) People without a clue what bento is.

2.) People who refuse to update their viewer (but thats going to change FAST, especially for Firestorm users)

3.) Bento is new, the products using the new bones are just starting to roll out into the market.

Give it some weeks, up to a few months and the usage of the benefits and additions bento implemented will be as normal as mesh is today. And you wouldn't want to make a club or group for people who use at least some sort of mesh, right?

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The trouble is that some of the viewers on the TPV list have not been updated in several months, and are missing Bento support: Singularity, Alchemy, UKanDo are all in this state. Of these, Alchemy is most likely to recover, but Singularity hasn't seen a commit in a long time and UKanDo's maintainer is on an extended trip.

Of those, the ones mosty likely to resist switching viewers will be the ones on Singularity. For them, the closest substitute will probably be Cool VL Viewer, which is the only other Snowglobe-derived viewer that still gets regular updates.

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Myself, I plan to invest in bento items, but at a later time when there is more choice and better offerings.  I and many others not enamoured of the early offerings and I am sure they will improve as time goes on and designers gain experience.  I'd feel like I was wasting my money right now. 

Even when I do invest, such of a club would hold no interest for me.  I not only don't think such a club is necessary but it seems pretty snobbish too, like you think early adapters are better than anyone else who hasn't spent a lot of money on the early bento offerings.  Some won't be able to at all, due to limited budgets or just don't want to for a number of valid reasons.  I doubt any experienced club owner, that likely would make a club a success, wants to invest in a club which so severely limits clients like that either. 

The other question is how will you keep 'undesirables' out?  Do you plan to personally inspect each body and head before allowing them to join your 'exclusive' club group?  If someone is missing a head or the 'right' animations will that disqualify them?  Men are slower to adapt to this kind of thing than fashionista women.  So I predict a severe shortage of males that want to join.  Also, what about a couple where one partner is all bentoed out while the other isn't?  Do you expect them to want to join?

Of course you are free to invest your own money in such a club, if it's such a good idea.

Very soon most everyone will be able to see bento animations and bodies, so there is no need to put up artificial walls for people that can't right now.  SL doesn't need more divisions of the community into have and have not's.

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This type of elitist snobbery is the best kind. Why? Because it's the most hilarious. Or maybe I spent way too much time laughing about this, it could just be me. 

You don't even understand bento, what it is, how it works, how it's been implemented. Yet, you seem to be trying to create elitist "classes" of people, based on something you don't even understand, lol.  I wouldn't normally make that conclusion from your initial post, but since you so kindly clarified and verified with your other response, I think it's safe to say...your ignorance is showing.

 

 

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Rhonda Huntress wrote:

My bento avatar!

 

I really like the articulated finger tips on your Bento Tray. [i love the ?Penguin? too]

What I'm waiting for is:

1) A completely new live motion capture of a world class belly dancer including all her arm and finger movements for sale for my Belly Dancing AO.

2) Followed by perfect set of nail's and finger rings on the individual finger joints.

That will get me to spend L$ on Bento related items.

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KarenMichelle Lane wrote:


Rhonda Huntress wrote:

My bento avatar!

 

I really like the articulated finger tips on your Bento Tray.
[i love the ?Penguin? too]


Its a Pokemon. The big one is a Snorlax and the 3 others are a Dugtrio.

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Tari Landar wrote:

This type of elitist snobbery is the best kind. Why? Because it's the most hilarious. Or maybe I spent way too much time laughing about this, it could just be me. 

You don't even understand bento, what it is, how it works, how it's been implemented.

 

Hmm, that wasn't my take from Amber's post.

I believe that what she's getting at is that she'd like to be in an environment where all the avatars have animated faces and articulated hands.

In other words, she wants to experience what we all experience daily in real life, facial expressions and gestures, as in hand gestures, not SL annoying junk.

If that's what someone's understanding of "Bento" happens to be then perhaps the phrasing wasn't what met with the interpretation of others but that shouldn't matter.

I didn't feel excluded or an underclass because I haven't chosen to rush out and buy Bento enabled stuff and i'm as interested to see how it works out instead of stiff fingers and blank faces but since I'm not even invested in mesh avatars, it's not going to be something that will bother me either way.

To the OP, go ahead, make your dream, set up a club or other such venue and good luck!

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Sassy Romano wrote:


Hmm, that wasn't my take from Amber's post.

 

I didn't feel excluded or an underclass because I haven't chosen to rush out and buy Bento enabled stuff and i'm as interested to see how it works out instead of stiff fingers and blank faces but since I'm not even invested in mesh avatars, it's not going to be something that will bother me either way.

To the OP, go ahead, make your dream, set up a club or other such venue and good luck!

Oh, I don't feel excluded either, but then, I'm rather good at controlling how things make me feel ;)

That said, her initial post didn't sound nearly as snobish(to me) until she clarified when someone tried to explain that bento is something *we all* have the capability of having...and she claimed that such a thing must be exclusive "because many are not".

Either way...good luck with making the club, entirely likely it's going to sit empty though. The last place I personally want to be, is a room full of people bragging about their avs-but, again, that's a personal thing for me. I'm not fond of mesh avs to begin with, and even less fond of trends ;) 

(because I am an oddball, I, weirdly, like nearly all avatars I meet, regardless of how "current" they might be)

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Tari Landar wrote:

That said, her initial post didn't sound nearly as snobish(to me) until she clarified when someone tried to explain that bento is something *we all* have the capability of having...and she claimed that such a thing must be exclusive "because many are not".

Nope, my comprehension was that she was saying that it seemed that Alwin was in a club (i.e. venue, not clique) that must have been exclusive that she didn't know about.

Whatever, it doesn't matter!

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Boy did most ALL OF YOU miss the point by a looooooooooooooooooooooong yard! There isn't a snobbish bone in my body and the club was NOT to be exclusive. 

I never knew there were so many narrow minded folks in here to jump in and poo-poo the idea. I won't go any further with explaining my reason for the post.

I'll drop it here. WOW... unreal some of your pedantic and UGLY comment... snobbish? Exclusivity? Really? Seriously? WOW...  where are you people from that you would jump to such a WRONG and left field conclusion? Nevermind, I do not want to know...  end of discussion as far as I'm concerned. 

Wow...

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Thank you... a truly rational voice in the room. 

To you, I will try to explain exactly what I was thinking, imagining. As I purchased, tried on and used - I found various ones doing the same but packing it away because simply put not many YET have anything Mesh or Bento generated. I thought it would be nice for those who HAVE JUMPED IN to have some place to go to be in the midst of those who could actually SEE your hands, Head, expressions - instead of eyeballs, gums and teeth, and deformed hands.

So that those who invested could wear the Bento viewer enhanced body parts and actually be seen. Nothing exclusive about it. Anyone who paid the money of course would want to use it. And many of the clubs with great numbers attending have NOT downloaded and upgraded yet - because they simply don't want to. THAT is their right. So... their viewers are not BENTO viewers............YET........... and they are not in a HURRY to upgrade to it. Some have said, they WON'T - they are still using other viewers - NOT - FS or SL - but Singularity and other 3rd party viewers that aren't upgraded. Frankly speaking they shouldn't have to - it's THEIR game! They should play it as they feel. 

My point was... for those who are into it, would have a place to go, where they would be SEEN and could discuss it - etc. et.c etc. - no where was a thought, gesture or idea EVER crossed my mind about Exclusive, elitist, or any such snobbery - in fact I HATE and DESPISE anyone of that type... I am so totally pissed to be accused of it. 

I thank you TARI Landar - for fully understanding... thank you, before I read your post, I was flabber-gasted by what I read from those I replied to. It appears there are those in a battle with their own personal self-esteem to have come to that KIND of conclusion when no such thing was mentioned. 

Done... *Hugs* Tari - again... thank you!

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AmberSwann wrote:

Boy did most ALL OF YOU miss the point by a looooooooooooooooooooooong yard!

Can you elaborate?  If so many missed the point it may need rewording to get the correct point across.

 

[ETA]

Looks like I posted too early.  I should have read 2 more posts down.  Yes, that is much diferent than what I infered from the first post.

For what it's worth, you can ask in many fashion groups if someone has a product you are thinking about buying and often get advice, feedback and even tp offers to see it being worn.

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I'm sorry I got the wrong impression but you did say

"We need a club where all those WEARING their BENTO AVI bodies and hands can go and ALL THERE can see ALL OF YOU... especially considering how many in SL still using the old viewers so they see deformed hands, and eyeballs and teeth and a brain or two, hahahaha...."

"All there" implies that only those that can see or would be wearing the bento bodies would be allowed in. 

I'm still confused, as you now say it wouldn't be exclusive.  So presumably all those who don't have the bento viewers would not see all of you and see you deformed.  So what is different then any other club?

You see, there are people in SL that feel, for whatever reason, that they are better than others and that there should be places they can go that screen out the 'riff raff', ie: newbs, furries, vamps, etc..  I've run into them in my 10+ years of SL existence and dealt with them as the owner of 2 clubs that allowed any type of avatar to come as long as they followed the few rules I had to allow everyone to enjoy themselves.  I would receive numerous IM's each week complaining about this or that kind of avatar being allowed in, even though the avatar in question was behaving perfectly fine.  Luckily I heard from some of those avatars from time to time thanking me for running a non exclusive club and telling me about clubs they were rudely excluded from.

I am totally against any kind exclusivity based on avatar appearance and that is why I responded the way I did.  Your original post was not clear and seemed to look down on anyone that was not 'up to date' with their viewers and possibly their avatars.

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AmberSwann wrote:

You're sad... not only sad... but WRONG and sad... that was the furthest thing from my mind... in fact, no room in my mind for such a contemplation. 

I am *far from sad lady, I am actually quite a happy, and typically helpful, person. Perhaps if you were better at articulating yourself, you wouldn't give people the wrong impression so very easily.  

I was actually laughing at the mere idea, and how it *sounded elitist and snobbish...but not calling YOU a snob, or elitist, just the idea. I can discuss ideas, opinions, etc...without discussing the *person stating them. Most grown adults can, actually :) I'm sure you can too :D 

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Mesh avatars are of no interest to me so I haven't posted in this thread although I have been reading it. At this stage it sounds as though your original post didn't explain quite what you meant well enough to be understood by everybody. You've pretty much conceded that. So it wasn't a good idea to come down on those who misunderstood you due to you not being clear enough, and it was an especially bad idea to make judgements about them, such as "sad lady". I suggest a good idea would be for you to take a deep breath, or, better still, a good night's sleep, and say 'sorry' to those who you unjustly came down on. Then everyone can have a nice group hug :)

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It's not always about feeling better than others, although some do, that is unfortunate truth.

For example I don't like furries myself, they creep me out, a lot more than they should be, but what can I do about it? Some don't like spiders or other insects, I don't like furries. And while I tolerate them being in the same neutral sim (stores for example) just fine, since there's no interaction involved, I wouldn't want to go and dance in place that is filled with them, nor do I wan't to constantly look around and block ones that teleported in after I did. And I don't have to do it, thankfully there's more clubs that don't allow furries in, than ones that do.

And tons more of other places that ban all kinds of other avatars for any reason. But you won't go complain if a certain "gay only" club will ban your female avi, would you? Also RP sims that will ban you (past shop areas) if you don't fit to that RP theme appearance wise. Or do you think it's fine if some sci-fi avi will jump into medieval sim and start ruining the storyline/RP by just being there and then demand the equal rights too?

There's also quite a few fetish clubs with appropriate dress codes, based on their themes (just like in RL. crazy, right?). And yes, they do warn people who don't meet their rules and if people ignore it - they get ejected/banned. It is "exclusivity" and feeling "better than others" too? I'd say it's the lack of respect to place's rules from some people who visit it.

While I agree that is silly when people come to "free for all" club and then ask to kick avis that are against their taste, they just just read club's rules first (given that club owner/management bothered to list a clear rules at accessible place), it's completely fine for any sim/parcel/club/etc owner to set their rules. And if it's against your beliefs.. well, tough luck, no one's obligated to share your point of view on this or any other topics. You do things your way, others will do their things their way, as long as it's not against laws and LL ToS - it's up to people.

 

So, again, it's nothing about feeling better than others, there is a human being behind each avi after all and they are free to be what they want in SL and I have no problem with that at all. What I have problem with, is when they demand others to accept them and their choice no matter what. And that's something I won't do already. Be a vampire, a furry, a transformer, anything else, but without me and other people who dislike such company.

 

And I'm not TC, but I think I can answer what would be different about that club. Those who don't have bento viewers could come there, but most likely wouldn't like what they see (or, rather, not see), making it "free to visit, pointless to stay" for those.

As for this club idea/topic. It's unnecessary I believe. I've got bento stuff a while ago, during FS alpha testing and back then I kept getting endless IMs about missing head and hands. After official FS release it went down a lot and in the last week it maybe was 1-2 IMs a day.  So I suppose people slowly update, as the number of bento items slowly increasing, there's already at least 5-6 bento female heads, a couple of male heads, wings, tails, hands and jewelry for it and hands from well know mesh body creator are coming soon too.

At this rate it's people who refuse/can't update will have to create their "bento-free" clubs, so they can actually see each other fully. /sarcasm

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AmberSwann wrote:

Boy did most ALL OF YOU miss the point...

Not sure if you include my little comment in that "ALL OF YOU" but apart from the melting computer exaggeration, you can take it quite literally: a Bento club would be a very interesting load test. Bento is supposed to be relatively low lag but relative to what? Only one way to find out.

That's all really - don't try to read between the lines of that post because there's nothing but blank space there.

As for elitism, I've yet to see a discussion about it that didn't deteriorate fast into "I'm better than those snotty elitists!" ;)

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