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Penny Patton

Why No-Mod?

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All I want to add to this thread is I don't know much about modding. I mostly resize stuff. I paid a fair bit of money for one object I had not seen which in my opinion was too big and looked unrealistic so it stayed in my inventory. I decided to mention it though in a comment. Being ignorant and did not mean to offend as I have tones of stuff from that store, the creator could have just explained to me why that particular object could not be resized. Instead, I received a nasty message after being blocked on SL and  Flickr and banned from a sim which forbid me access to one event. Now I'm being careful when it says no mod and will easily give it a miss.

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2 hours ago, Prisqua Newall said:

All I want to add to this thread is I don't know much about modding. I mostly resize stuff. I paid a fair bit of money for one object I had not seen which in my opinion was too big and looked unrealistic so it stayed in my inventory. I decided to mention it though in a comment. Being ignorant and did not mean to offend as I have tones of stuff from that store, the creator could have just explained to me why that particular object could not be resized. Instead, I received a nasty message after being blocked on SL and  Flickr and banned from a sim which forbid me access to one event. Now I'm being careful when it says no mod and will easily give it a miss.

Great customer service there, ... not =^.^=

oh my *headdesk* no, do not hold back critisism unless you deem a designer totally worth your devotion. I just chatted with car manufacturer, who could explain me why the car was "no mod", so totally useless to my little project, and on top of a nice explanation he even showed me a 0L vehicle by his competitor which was mod... guess what? I like the car, sure I cannot add my fancy nonsense to it (every limo should have Blofeld's white kitty in the backseat, PERIOD) but the explanation made sense, I appreciate the customer service given before I even was a customer... I might still buy it.

How they deal with weird customer wishes and negative reviews helps us identify which merchants are worth investing our Lindens in.

Edited by Fionalein
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5 hours ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

Same thing I wrote to entity above applies to clothing, hair, shoes, anything. If I really love something, or it's perfect with X, I'll append a note to the end of the name. It helps me find things again.

I agree with Chellynne about people not remembering and just going by what's in front of them. But I have a question for you, if you were there and overheard it, why didn't you say anything? You could have put the wee rumour right to bed.

I personally think name changes should be allowed on any object no matter the perms... 

And who said i didn't talk to them? Assume much? The point was, they did a horrible mod job. Yes, i talked to the other people in private IM after and sorted it out. I certainly wasn't about to do so in public chat. 

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7 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

I personally think name changes should be allowed on any object no matter the perms... 

And who said i didn't talk to them? Assume much? The point was, they did a horrible mod job. Yes, i talked to the other people in private IM after and sorted it out. I certainly wasn't about to do so in public chat. 

Apologies then. I'm not sure how it meant you definitely lost a sale there if you talked to those involved and sorted the matter out, but if you say so then it's got to be.

About the name changes, it's nice that you want them but it doesn't change the practical aspect of the matter. Unless I misunderstood you on that as well, you asked for a possible use of mod rights on rigged mesh clothing. My reply was one possible use of mod rights which I use regularly. It's also one which has pointed me back to shops for additional purchases or to seek out a creator's new mesh brand. That sort of thing would be invisible to a creator though, which is why I thought it reasonable to mention it here.

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On 4/8/2018 at 9:25 AM, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

I never change a name but I do add things to help me find them again. So if you made something I dearly loved and didn't want to lose track of, I'd like to be able to add a word like "Favourite", the room where I used it, or whatever helps me find it again.

Your organisation won't be mine. No matter how cleverly you've named your items, it's just going to fit differently into the way I keep track of things.

And if I have something you've made that I love dearly, you probably do want me to be able to find it again, and quickly. Because then I'm more likely to use it again and more likely to go back to your store to buy something else.

Fair enough, but you don't really need mod permissions to rename things in order to find them again. There is a directory search function I have used for a long time that helps me find stuff quite quickly. Perhaps you could suggest to LL that the end user should be able to rename all products as default.

Please keep in mind that we are making things for people to have fun with in SL, not selling them game assets to mod, retexture, resize, redefine and re-use in huge sim builds (which are then used to solicit $$ from visitors presumably for profit).

 

On 4/8/2018 at 8:49 AM, Nova Convair said:

So the message is:  the customers are too stupid for mod stuff. Thanks for the confirmation through this thread.

Noone holds this position in this  discussion.

On 4/9/2018 at 4:31 AM, Madison531 said:

My taste as a consumer is better for what I want than a creator's is.  It isn't better objectively, but I pay for the creator's ability to create things that I couldn't.  I also can (if moddable) modify some things so that I like them better.  That is not snobbish.  A creator thinking that their creation will satisfy me more than I can satisfy myself by modding it, is what is snobbish.

Right, so only purchase from creators that your taste suits. If you REALLY like something but don't, instead of calling for widespread permission changes on objects, send a notecard to the creator to see what they can do for you. It's not hard.

And best of all you won't be seen on a alternate "SL Forum" calling for the boycott of creators who don't comply to your tastes. Then THAT is a win/win.

I can create, present and sell as I see fit, and you can purchase as your 'taste' permits. What's the problem here?

On 4/9/2018 at 8:42 AM, Chase01 said:

I don't think the reason to want to modify an item is snobbish; not at all. There is also another reason why some people create, and that is for themselves. They create items they want to see in world and share it with the grid "as-is" in the form of a business. So you may pay for the creator's ability to make things you couldn't, but that item wasn't specifically made for you and may not always suit your purposes. Thankfully, in certain market segments, finding something else that will work isn't always impossible.

Then we are in agreeance. Buy what you like, and leave what you don't like. Contact the creator and see if they will customize something for your needs.

But dont EVER, ever come on a forum and imply those creators who DON'T want to conform to your needs should be reviled, boycotted or coerced to do anything. That is anti-competitive behaviour.

 

22 hours ago, Prisqua Newall said:

All I want to add to this thread is I don't know much about modding. I mostly resize stuff. I paid a fair bit of money for one object I had not seen which in my opinion was too big and looked unrealistic so it stayed in my inventory. I decided to mention it though in a comment. Being ignorant and did not mean to offend as I have tones of stuff from that store, the creator could have just explained to me why that particular object could not be resized. Instead, I received a nasty message after being blocked on SL and  Flickr and banned from a sim which forbid me access to one event. Now I'm being careful when it says no mod and will easily give it a miss.

Well, that is your choice and perogative as a consumer - to shop elsewhere. If you really DO like the item, but not happy with the permissions, contacting them is as simple notecard away - I would say MOST will be agreeable and will do their best to accommodate you. But if not, that is also THEIR perogative.

Edited by entity0x
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On 13.12.2016 at 3:44 PM, Sassy Romano said:

The one I think she missed was "I have to set the object to no modify because the scripts inside are no modify".  Heard that too many times.

shhh, don't tell them. Those uninformed persons might also think the inherited "no mod" from the script inside made the whole mesh "no mod" as well ;)

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On 10/04/2018 at 9:54 AM, Fionalein said:

How they deal with weird customer wishes and negative reviews helps us identify which merchants are worth investing our Lindens in.

I don't feel negative reviews is worth  much on second life at the risk of being banned unless I was a big time blogger such as Strawberrysingh. I'm not even banned on her store, just on the sim where the event happens so not hurting her really, just the other vendors I might have bought from because I'm a spender.  I do say things how I see it on Twitter or blog but I don't use names unless someone really wants to know. I knew she blocked me but I only found out I was banned from the sim because I mentioned in a group I couldn't get in and led me to find out even more shady stuff... And the thing is: I love her stuff, so a bit sad really. 

I do try to leave reviews on MP though because I like reading reviews and it sometimes influences me to buy or not, but I've rarely experienced such extreme customer service.

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Unless it's something where product integrity is important ie. game systems or things made for combat systems which often have sims with whitelisting based on the product creator you really should avoid no mod.

It just isn't consumer friendly, it prevents rescripting and stifles creativity. 

Especially when you're color matching it's hell at times. 

Also some creators while they are good with models, absolutely suck with scripting and there's like 30 *****ing scripts I can't remove for something that can be done with a single script.

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17 hours ago, entity0x said:

Please keep in mind that we are making things for people to have fun with in SL, not selling them game assets to mod, retexture, resize, redefine and re-use in huge sim builds (which are then used to solicit $$ from visitors presumably for profit).

Speak for yourself, not for others.

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17 hours ago, entity0x said:

But dont EVER, ever come on a forum and imply those creators who DON'T want to conform to your needs should be reviled, boycotted or coerced to do anything. That is anti-competitive behaviour.
 

Oh for fudge sake. Look up what anti-competetive behaviour even means.

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17 hours ago, entity0x said:

Please keep in mind that we are making things for people to have fun with in SL, not selling them game assets to mod, retexture, resize, redefine and re-use in huge sim builds (which are then used to solicit $$ from visitors presumably for profit).

Our definitions on fun apparently diverge.

18 hours ago, entity0x said:

But dont EVER, ever come on a forum and imply those creators who DON'T want to conform to your needs should be reviled, boycotted or coerced to do anything.

Wait, we are just giving shopping advice by telling folks that buying "no mod" items is in general a bad idea, explaining why.

Your cherished "No mod" can have its reasons, but do not blame us when people opt for those items that better suit their needs, that's no boycott, it is a thing called "the market".

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18 hours ago, entity0x said:

And best of all you won't be seen on a alternate "SL Forum" calling for the boycott of creators who don't comply to your tastes. Then THAT is a win/win.

It's not a win for me if I can't find otherwise good items that I can mod to taste.  Fortunately most creators of things like furniture have made their items mod.  It's mostly things like clothing that creators refuse to allow mod.

The more copy/mod is the norm, the more wins for the end user.

18 hours ago, entity0x said:

But dont EVER, ever come on a forum and imply those creators who DON'T want to conform to your needs should be reviled, boycotted or coerced to do anything. That is anti-competitive behaviour.

No, what you don't want is competitive behavior in the marketplace.  If people won't buy no mod, more people create mod items-- which compete with yours, and you lose and are coerced by the market, if it's important to you to sell much.  If you're creating them for yourself and don't care if you sell a lot less, you won't care.  But hopefully, for the good of the end-users, items that aren't copy/mod will sell less and less, and that will lead to more being available as copy/mod, for those like me who want it.

You're the one afraid of more competition from more good creators giving mod permissions.

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On 4/8/2018 at 5:55 AM, Theresa Tennyson said:

Especially when you actually look at some of their products...

Yep, my products aren't quite advanced or even on a pro level yet. I'm self-taught and working as hard as I can improving my stuff as I learn - subject to information I can garner for intermediate tutorials on the internet - not an easy task. I do have big plans for some items for SL and am still excited by the possibilities SL has to offer.

Even though your post was meant to be insulting - I don't need to return the favour. I'm simply having a discussion here and have NEVER attacked other people's work here, and in fact, I admire their skill at stuff and use it as inspiration and a guideline to improve my stuff. I also may watch tutorials and visit the online shops of some of the participants in this discussion, and study their objects to see how I can improve my stuff.

I've currently got to a level where my models are a bit more detailed and such and am kind of getting stuck as to how I will LOD them and texture them the most efficiently without losing their design too much. I'm working as hard as I can while trying to survive financially in a very high-expense living area, so I do my best.

Please keep this in mind, and have a bit more patience with me. I am not your enemy, I just am presenting an opposite view to yours and the personal attacks are not needed.

 

4 hours ago, Fionalein said:

Our definitions on fun apparently diverge.

Wait, we are just giving shopping advice by telling folks that buying "no mod" items is in general a bad idea, explaining why.

Your cherished "No mod" can have its reasons, but do not blame us when people opt for those items that better suit their needs, that's no boycott, it is a thing called "the market".

I don't cherish 'no-mod' and it is not widely applied to every product I make, just on the items I deem appropriate. I've offered my reasons, and we just disagree. Oh well.

Again, I am just taking the opposite position for the purposes of discussion, and giving reasons why I might not want to NoMod stuff. I don't consider myself right or wrong on the subject, just simply offering my opinion. I may present my case in a determinative manner, but it doesn't mean I won't ponder the points being made in this discussion and change my view.

I discuss issues to learn, to improve myself, and to also provide any readers of this section with an alternate view. Perhaps centering on learning from discussion, rather than winning points would help this forum be a bit friendlier.

4 hours ago, Madison531 said:

It's not a win for me if I can't find otherwise good items that I can mod to taste.  Fortunately most creators of things like furniture have made their items mod.  It's mostly things like clothing that creators refuse to allow mod.

The more copy/mod is the norm, the more wins for the end user.

No, what you don't want is competitive behavior in the marketplace.  If people won't buy no mod, more people create mod items-- which compete with yours, and you lose and are coerced by the market, if it's important to you to sell much.  If you're creating them for yourself and don't care if you sell a lot less, you won't care.  But hopefully, for the good of the end-users, items that aren't copy/mod will sell less and less, and that will lead to more being available as copy/mod, for those like me who want it.

You're the one afraid of more competition from more good creators giving mod permissions.

Though I haven't really made clothing (well maybe a strange hat) yet, I can understand why no/mod on those items as well. I guess it depends on whether I am selling the mesh design itself, or if the mesh depends more on the textures and styles applied. Most fashion designers in RL only offer a limited selection of fabrics, because they had a vision for the end product.

The mesh itself may be nothing on it's own, for example, a t-shirt. I don't sell t-shirts, but I could if I felt the art work on it would sell. That being said, It would be weird to me to spend time putting the design on the shirt, only to have someone mod it out after the fact.. Why not just sell the mesh blank and pre-UV'd and let the customer apply their own texture, rather than spend time baking out Diffuse, Normals, Specs, etc with AO?

I do recognize that not adding no-Mod could be detrimental to a T-Shirt item because then the artwork may not appeal to all users, but then I would think the best time spent for an SL creator then is to sell blank meshes of everything, maybe suggest an end use of the project, but then put Mod on it to suit customers tastes. I know it would certainly save me time in the future not having to texture, script or test stuff. But then that's not what I want to do. Personally I want to create cool stuff that DOES something, other than a static prop, and I'm not into creating resale items. For that I'll head to Turbosquid and sell assets there instead.

I'm not afraid of competition, in fact I welcome it. Competition, especially a friendly rivalry not only inspires me to improve my own products, but I can also learn quite a bit from those superior to me in skill.

But never mind me, stick to the topic and stop bringing me into it.

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On 4/9/2018 at 4:39 PM, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

Changing the name is a mod right I often use, including rigged mesh clothing. If it's not mod, I have to figure something else out like putting it in a folder. But then search takes me to the folder instead of the item. Not impossible, but not exactly straightforward either.

Conversely, you could make an outfit of the clothing and name it whatever you want.. 

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