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Penny Patton

Why No-Mod?

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On 1/1/2018 at 12:09 PM, LittleMe Jewell said:

The name of an item should not be part of the 'modify/no-modify' rights.  This also frustrates a lot.

This is true. Probably one of the biggest beefs I have, and would probably ease me into including more mod permissions on future projects, is not having someone be able to change the title of the item to 'My Item', when it clearly is not. I mean, if we're not even allowed to advertise anything in-world to anyone, what else are we to do  (besides just spend $L on random advertising schemes).

On 1/1/2018 at 12:47 PM, Sukubia Scarmon said:

I kinda find the mentaly that as a creator, customers would screw your precious product up or make it look unflattering worrysome and to be honest, somewhat offending, as someone who had to _learn_ how to do it first.

Conversely, you could respect those who put in the time and effort in not only first learning the skills needed to create the 3D items that you take for granted, and also respect them as artists, instead of feeling self-entitled to other people's work on your terms. Without creators, there'd be no content for you to proclaim your self-entitled rights to.

 

On 1/2/2018 at 10:01 AM, Coby Foden said:

SL-snobs.jpg.d440265459584516b3c7b4340ed8c2f9.jpg

snob
•a person who believes that their tastes in a particular area are superior to those of other people. ¬¬

Not saying that all "no-mod" designers are snobs but I have a strong feeling that some might be. ;)

Not saying that those who would imply creators of original works are self-entitled, but I have a strong feeling some might be :D

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20 minutes ago, entity0x said:

This is true. Probably one of the biggest beefs I have, and would probably ease me into including more mod permissions on future projects, is not having someone be able to change the title of the item to 'My Item', when it clearly is not.

I think you misunderstood my desire on this - and the desire of many others.  We want to be able to rename 'no mod' items.  So that we can give things logical names when they don't have such. 

Even if someone renames an object as "mine", it will always still show the correct original creator.

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Ok, maybe I misread your post then. I would disagree then, because I don't even like the fact that MOD items can have name changed - nevermind being able to do it on no-mod items too!

I pick my names carefully, and organize my names by series - modelname, so it's important to me that it is maintained... or I might as well just sell it as "TABLE 04062018", just uv for everyone to texture in world, and leave it at that.

I could probably triple and quadruple my objects on my store with such an easier workflow, and save the 'works of art' or originality and profit on sites like Turbosquid instead, and just create generic and less ambitious mod items for SL.

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Late on the train here but my sole item is "no mod" because it is copy and transfer and I am paranoid ...

See, my item is meant as free gift to the petite community so I intended it to be passed around by them freely... this however leaves the item (a simple cube with a tpye animation script) vulnerabe to abuse. By making it "no mod", I can leave it copy and transfer without having to worry people will abuse it by turning it into something bad (like with money stealing scripts) and leave my name tag on it. This is even mutual because that way I also make sure if someone recieves an item with my name as creator, they can expect it to be save if they trust me, no matter where they got it from.

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17 hours ago, entity0x said:

Conversely, you could respect those who put in the time and effort in not only first learning the skills needed to create the 3D items that you take for granted, and also respect them as artists, instead of feeling self-entitled to other people's work on your terms. Without creators, there'd be no content for you to proclaim your self-entitled rights to.

Respect is no one-way street, you know?
If I would not take those skills or the creators for granted, I'd not be paying for their items.

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Recent example why mod rights are good: I buildt a vehicle rezzer for a shopping sim. But I needed the cars to dissappear when shoppers leave them... now most car sellers have "no mod" cars. But I found one car merchant that had modable car meshes. I could set the cars to "temp", shove them into the rezzer, and the garbage collector of the sim will dispose of them once shoppers leave them behind. Typical use of a SL car? No. Did I dishonour the creator's original idea? Most likeley not, I rather gave him sorta free ads for his vehicles.

Edited by Fionalein
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It is quite surprising how some merchants think of their creations as gods gift to mankind they so graciously bestow on the peasant masses.

As a merchant myself I'll make damn sure my feet firmly stay on the ground.

Jesus, some people....

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On 1/2/2018 at 1:01 PM, Coby Foden said:

SL-snobs.jpg.d440265459584516b3c7b4340ed8c2f9.jpg

When I first started selling my artwork, I thought this way, I don't think I was being a snob. I mean if a painting is meant to be twice as wide as it is height, and someone changes it to be a square the image will be compressed and probably look odd, which would reflect on me as the creator, someone might see that odd looking image and think I am the stupid one. I have since gotten over this, and either sell or provide mod paintings when asked. This allows the purchaser to change the size to fit their space, if they don't do it right and distort the image, well that is their problem and their right. I recently saw one of my paintings hung upside down, oh well.

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22 hours ago, Syn Anatine said:

It is quite surprising how some merchants think of their creations as gods gift to mankind they so graciously bestow on the peasant masses.

 

Especially when you actually look at some of their products...

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Aside from adding a script to a mesh clothing item, what possible reason is there for selling it Mod? 

When i first started selling mesh clothing it was copy/mod/no trans. I was at a popular club back then and saw someone wearing one of my dresses in a color i did not sell. It was a hideous shade of baby poop green and there were several people talking about how awful it looked on voice. One asked her where she got it and she told them my shop. Which got the response of "i will never shop there, thanks." So yeah, modders can cost creators sales. How much would i have made, no idea. But i know for a fact i lost a sale. How many more times did this happen? Again, no idea. But the fact it happened once made me change my items to no/mod. And that is my choice. Just as it is yours to not buy them because of it. But in reality, why are you against it? f you want a script dropped in it, I will freely do that. Hell i say point bank just ask and i will do most anything. Most creators will. This problem is, no one asks they just assume and rant. 

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On 1/2/2018 at 1:01 PM, Coby Foden said:

SL-snobs.jpg.d440265459584516b3c7b4340ed8c2f9.jpg

snob
•a person who believes that their tastes in a particular area are superior to those of other people. ¬¬

Not saying that all "no-mod" designers are snobs but I have a strong feeling that some might be. ;)

That goes the other way as well.. The belief that your taste as a consumer is far superior to a creators is snobbish. Not you in particular, Coby.. just consumers in general.

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1 hour ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

But i know for a fact i lost a sale.

You may have lost the sale of the person who said "Thanks I'll never shop there." But if your dress had been no mod you might have lost that initial sale to begin with. So whichever way you look at it, you might have lost out on a sale. Can't please everyone after all.

1 hour ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

That goes the other way as well.. The belief that your taste as a consumer is far superior to a creators is snobbish. Not you in particular, Coby.. just consumers in general.

I do believe my taste is far superior than any one else's, because it's my taste and concerns what I will wear, or well, my pixel self in this case. I don't give two hoots about what other's think looks good, after all that shirt or skirt will go onto my pixel body and the only taste that matters there is my own. That's not snobbish ;)

If a merchant wants to dictate exactly the shade of red I am supposed to wear, I as a customer can and will say 'no thank you' if it's a shade of red I don't personally like. If the clothing is mod though it's an easy fix to match a pair of shoes or some such.

 

Imho, I don't personally think creators are snobbish simply for making clothes no mod, what I find snobbish however is their attitude in this thread and some others. It just makes me roll my eyes if they call a skirt or table they made 'art' and literally treat it like a gift they graciously let customer's buy. I think some creators get off on their little ego trip, it's as amusing as it is annoying.

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So the message is:  the customers are too stupid for mod stuff. Thanks for the confirmation through this thread.

If you don't like my simplificated interpretation - I don't care.

The good thing is - it did and will do - save me many 1000 L$. Keep up the good work. :D

 

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So you are already upset when people file you guys as "snobs" , oh my... I better don't tell you about my "possibly a control freak" interpretation then, Oops I just did :D

See, I am no corporate bound by laws of economy. I can and will glady pay more if I deem the creator/item worthy of my money, or I can decide not to buy at all, both in RL and SL. Does that make me a "snob"? For some I guess it might, but being that kind of snob feels right,  and that is all that matters to me.

Edited by Fionalein
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12 minutes ago, Nova Convair said:

So the message is:  the customers are too stupid for mod stuff. Thanks for the confirmation through this thread.

If you don't like my simplificated interpretation - I don't care.

The good thing is - it did and will do - save me many 1000 L$. Keep up the good work. :D

 

I honestly got that impression too with some people. ¬¬

I love the freedome SL provides, which is why I've decided to become a full perm merchant. Let's take it to the extreme, eh? Weeee~♥

tenor.gif

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On 4/6/2018 at 10:04 PM, entity0x said:

I pick my names carefully, and organize my names by series - modelname, so it's important to me that it is maintained... or I might as well just sell it as "TABLE 04062018", just uv for everyone to texture in world, and leave it at that.

You leap to very strange conclusions, entity.

I never change a name but I do add things to help me find them again. So if you made something I dearly loved and didn't want to lose track of, I'd like to be able to add a word like "Favourite", the room where I used it, or whatever helps me find it again.

Your organisation won't be mine. No matter how cleverly you've named your items, it's just going to fit differently into the way I keep track of things.

And if I have something you've made that I love dearly, you probably do want me to be able to find it again, and quickly. Because then I'm more likely to use it again and more likely to go back to your store to buy something else.

Or could it be you don't actually want that? Is your naming system is more precious to you than appreciation from others?

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I prefer to have mod privilege for anything decor related. I enjoy being able re-purpose and customize those items to suit my needs. So I can relate to the wishes of those in this thread that want more access to product which was mod, but at the same time, I can also respect the will of some creators that only wish to release a product that isn't (it is after all, their creation and if it is a product I adore, I am thankful they made it). 

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6 hours ago, Chase01 said:

I prefer to have mod privilege for anything decor related. I enjoy being able re-purpose and customize those items to suit my needs. So I can relate to the wishes of those in this thread that want more access to product which was mod, but at the same time, I can also respect the will of some creators that only wish to release a product that isn't (it is after all, their creation and if it is a product I adore, I am thankful they made it). 

I actually often need it. Oh nice coffee machine, can I install it in my yacht? Nope, because no mod? OK then, keep it, I'll buy another one.

Edited by Fionalein
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20 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

That goes the other way as well.. The belief that your taste as a consumer is far superior to a creators is snobbish. Not you in particular, Coby.. just consumers in general.

 

My taste as a consumer is better for what I want than a creator's is.  It isn't better objectively, but I pay for the creator's ability to create things that I couldn't.  I also can (if moddable) modify some things so that I like them better.  That is not snobbish.  A creator thinking that their creation will satisfy me more than I can satisfy myself by modding it, is what is snobbish.

And if, as it should be, it is also copy, if my modified version turned out to satisfy myself not as well, I could get the old one back from the box, so win/win.

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3 hours ago, Madison531 said:

 

My taste as a consumer is better for what I want than a creator's is.  It isn't better objectively, but I pay for the creator's ability to create things that I couldn't.  I also can (if moddable) modify some things so that I like them better.  That is not snobbish.  A creator thinking that their creation will satisfy me more than I can satisfy myself by modding it, is what is snobbish.

And if, as it should be, it is also copy, if my modified version turned out to satisfy myself not as well, I could get the old one back from the box, so win/win.

In my case i specifically asked about mesh clothing. Other than adding a script, what possible use is mod rights to rigged mesh clothing? 

And yes, everyone's personal tastes is obviously better suited to themselves than any creators, but you wouldn't be shopping somewhere if they didn't have something in common. 

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3 hours ago, Madison531 said:

My taste as a consumer is better for what I want than a creator's is.  It isn't better objectively, but I pay for the creator's ability to create things that I couldn't.  I also can (if moddable) modify some things so that I like them better.  That is not snobbish.  A creator thinking that their creation will satisfy me more than I can satisfy myself by modding it, is what is snobbish.

That is definitely one way of looking at it.

I don't think the reason to want to modify an item is snobbish; not at all. There is also another reason why some people create, and that is for themselves. They create items they want to see in world and share it with the grid "as-is" in the form of a business. So you may pay for the creator's ability to make things you couldn't, but that item wasn't specifically made for you and may not always suit your purposes. Thankfully, in certain market segments, finding something else that will work isn't always impossible.

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My lord this thread gotten a bit nasty. Lets all be kind folks x.x

 

4 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

In my case i specifically asked about mesh clothing. Other than adding a script, what possible use is mod rights to rigged mesh clothing? 

And yes, everyone's personal tastes is obviously better suited to themselves than any creators, but you wouldn't be shopping somewhere if they didn't have something in common. 


Well, specifically for mesh clothing:

  • Linking/unlinking multiple pieces to save attachment points.
  • Renaming it for easier searching. (Handy if there's a color hud. Often it's easier to make copys of an item in the various colors you like once rather then pull out the hud each time)
  • And of course altering the appearance via tinting or textures.

I know you think you lost a sale from that guy. But it's clear they were just being assholes to that person. They probably won't even remember your shop name.  When they go looking for clothes, your items are still going to show up in search in the exact same way as before. Really, unless you're killing puppies and advertising that fact, it's kinda hard to lose sales due to reputation in SL. People just don't have the head space to remember they once saw a crappy item from ____.  

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4 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

In my case i specifically asked about mesh clothing. Other than adding a script, what possible use is mod rights to rigged mesh clothing?

Same thing I wrote to entity above applies to clothing, hair, shoes, anything. If I really love something, or it's perfect with X, I'll append a note to the end of the name. It helps me find things again.

I agree with Chellynne about people not remembering and just going by what's in front of them. But I have a question for you, if you were there and overheard it, why didn't you say anything? You could have put the wee rumour right to bed.

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20 minutes ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

Same thing I wrote to entity above applies to clothing, hair, shoes, anything. If I really love something, or it's perfect with X, I'll append a note to the end of the name. It helps me find things again.

I don't think Drake was advocating against a name change, that was someone else.

 

20 minutes ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

I agree with Chellynne about people not remembering and just going by what's in front of them. But I have a question for you, if you were there and overheard it, why didn't you say anything? You could have put the wee rumour right to bed.

The real question they are posing is, what happens when the creator isn't there to put the wee rumor to bed. His example was to illustrate how someone poorly modified his item, which then resulted in creating a negative association with the brand. Hopefully they disregarded the name, but It is these kinds of situations that are hard to quantify in terms of sales gained and or lost.

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@Chase01

Changing the name is a mod right I often use, including rigged mesh clothing. If it's not mod, I have to figure something else out like putting it in a folder. But then search takes me to the folder instead of the item. Not impossible, but not exactly straightforward either.

But he was there, at least in the story he told. I asked about that.

Maybe everyone else has stellar memories and keeps track of all these things easily. I certainly don't. Am I weird in looking at what's in front of me in a store?

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