Why No-Mod?

[Penny Patton]

Ok, so over the past few years more and more content creators seem to be releasing their content no-mod. There's a couple reasons they give for this, but they seemed to be based on some misinformation that I want to dispell.

A lot of the no-mod content creators I've talked to explain that since you can't resize or reposition rigged mesh, there's no point to it being mod. But that's not true at all.

Resizing and repositioning are not all there is to modding. They're not even half of what there is to modding. Here's a list of ways you can mod rigged mesh:

 

• Adding scripts
• Removing scripts
• Retexturing
• Tinting the colour
• Adding custom materials
• Adding custom alpha masks
• Changing the objects alpha textures from "blended" to "masked"
• Making parts fullbright
• Removing fullbright
• Linking the object to others so you use fewer attachment points
• Unlinking parts to use individually
• Renaming

This isn't even a complete list. As you can see, resizing and repositioning barely scratch the surface of what it means for an object to be moddable in Second Life. Every single piece of rigged mesh clothing, every single rigged mesh hairpiece and bodypart I own is modded in some way or another.

Here are some specific examples of how I've personally modded rigged/fitmesh items and why:

• Replaced multiple 1024x1024 textures on a hair piece with custom 256x256 textures to reduce draw weight and texture thrashing issues (that problem where you see textures endlessly blurring and re-rezzing).
• Changed the alpha textures on hair from "blended" to "masked" to solve a variety of rendering issues and reduce draw weight.
• Scripted fitmesh shirts to change my shape, physics and add/detach nipples when worn/removed making it much faster and easier to change outfits.
• Added custom materials to mesh body to improve the look.
• Fixed issues with a mesh head caused by the applier leaving alpha skin texture as "blended" by switching it to "masked" manually. This also reduced the draw weight.
• Linked multiple rigged/fitmesh items together to be worn as a single attachment.
• Removed the unused clothing layers from my mesh body to greatly reduce my draw weight.

So whenever you hear someone claim "rigged/fitmesh cannot be modified anyway" you set them straight and tell them that's just not true.

Another explanation I've heard for making rigged mesh no-modify is "to protect it from content thieves". The problem with that explanation is that making something no-mod offers no protection whatsoever from content theft. None. It's not even a minor inconvenience because the tools they use to steal content don't care what permissions the content has.

 I've even encountered content creators who seemed to believe that the only reason one might want moddable content is to somehow steal it, which makes no sense. Since no-mod is no protection against content theft, someone asking about mod rights has no interest in stealing your content.

So there you have it. There is generally no reason to sell rigged/fitmesh content no-mod. It provides no benefit to the creator, and it only has downsides for the customer. If you are a content creator who sells no-mod hair, bodies, clothing, I just want you to ask yourself, "Why am I selling these items no mod? Is there a reason, or is it just habit? Am I just doing it because everyone else seems to?"

If you're a customer, I want to encourage you to support those content creators who do release moddable rigged/fitmesh content and I hope you encourage more content creators to do the same, because SL was a lot more fun when you could customize pretty much everything.

[Paul Hexem]

The only possible good reason to sell something no modify is because of the scripts inside it. Sometimes a manual modification can absolutely break scripts that use link numbers.

However, a good script and link names can often overcome that.

The other time no mod is good is demo or promotional items, but I'm not sure that's relevant anyway.

The two popular reasons I hear are A- To protect the textures (which like you said, doesn't), and B- And I swear someone actualy said this, a fairly big name creator too, "No one else in SL can create on my level, so there's no possible way to improve my creation".

[Sassy Romano]

Assuming the item is also copy permission, breaking link numbers just means throwing away the broken one and using another, accepting that changing the link set isn't an option.

 

Happy to play in the modify permission world.

[Penny Patton]

I don't imagine anyone would seriously argue demos ought to be moddable. ^^; I can think of other cases where no-mod is understandable as well, such as scripts, items that are part of a closed system game, etcetera. I'm talking about general clothing and bodypart replacements that are a part of customizing one's unique avatar.

Shoes, mesh bodies, hair, clothing and accessories.

I also understand the concern about customers buying and breaking their content, but to that I say you should always package what you sell in a box. That way, the customer can always pull a fresh, unbroken copy from the original container.The mild inconvenience of needing to unpack a new purchase from a box is insignificant compared to the benefit of always having a backup. (Although, there's also really no reason LL hasn't given marketplace customers the ability to request redeliveries of copyable content.)

[Pussycat Catnap]

As you note - no-mod gives no protection.

- every UUID you encounter is stored as a file name in your SL cache. So any texture used on anything is on an honor system.

A LOT of the mesh we see in SL is ripped from Renderosity and Daz3D... so there IS the reason of 'not letting people see where I got this'.

The common excuse I hear is that customers will 'break it' - and this is true. Even if you box it. Join any mesh body group and listen to the chat to realize how unaware of basic technical skills many SL users are.

- As such many no-mod builders claim to do it to avoid customer support. But if you join their groups you still see all the "my HUD is broken" and so on comments...

 

- But then go into the furry community where there has been Modable goods from the outset, and for "some reason" these issues don't exist.

• Furry users have gotten used to having Mod goods.
• They've gotten used to figuring out how to make a copy so they don't break their purchase.
• They've gotten used to being able to see how something is built and as such improve upon it or sell mod-kits that actually drive UP sales of the original product.
• Because the expectation is on the customer... designers get away with telling non-tech-savvy customers to 'buzz off' after putting out a redelivery terminal. So 'mod' actually ends up leading to less need for customer support...
  • I have sat in furry product groups and watched the maker cuss out their own customers, call them foul names, and so on... because a customer asked for help with a broken item or a hud... so the flip side of this is that the 'you figure it out' community is a LOT less friendly...

And theft of goods by one maker to another... happens in the furry community. But it is rare, gets called out, and the thieves end up getting knocked out.

I've seen brands of mesh parts that were clearly taken from models like Daz3D's Victoria - even using popular pose kits over again in SL. But I rarely see this with furry stuff. Instead in the furry community I see a lot of 'fan adaptations' - original work made to look like something from an anime or whatever (used to be whole lines of pokemon avatars out there. Might still be but I haven't looked in years).

No-Mod inconveniences people more than it helps avoid theft.

 

I still use a no-mod body. The one I use is just better looking and lower lag than the mod choices. I find the whole no-mod thing annoying, but its not that big of a deal for my needs.

[Paul Hexem]

Clothing and bodyparts should always be modify, agreed. There isn't a single possible rational or intelligent reason for them not to be.

[Callum Meriman]

Thank Penny for posting this here as well as that other forum where I don't post because I would get in huge arguments.

I do have to agree that there is zero valid reason (outside of competition objects like boats or weapons) to make mesh no-mod. It was valid in the days of prims as there are scripts that trivially xerox prim objects. But no-mod on mesh doesn't make content-rippers using any number of tools even blink. 

But for me, as a texturer mainly plus a learning modeller, I would be in violation of the licence for the Full Perm meshes I purchased. Sadly those licenses are very explicit in saying the goods must be no-mod no-trans, or no-mod no-copy.

If I give it someone mod, my license is revoked.

Adults have a lot of choice with clothing meshes, but us Kid avatars have a grand total of ONE mesher making current full perm mesh. There is one more who was active 3 years ago, but has since gone to sleep.

Sometimes we would love to sell, or gift mod, but we are not allowed.

 

[Penny Patton]

I can understand that. If the license requires no-mod, then my question is directed towards the person selling the full-perm version. What possible reason could they have for making that a requirement?

[Callum Meriman]

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Penny Patton wrote:

What possible reason could they have for making that a requirement?

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Exactly. And that's why I wish more people making mesh would read your first post carefully.

It's can't be ripped via script like prims, so there isn't a valid reason outside of a competition setting where integrity needs to be guaranteed for fairness between teams.

I hope we can all do it and convince people.

[Nova Convair]

Yes, nice post But this unusable permissions on most producs saved me many 1000 L$ since I don't want that stuff.

So if that ever changes - what I doubt - I need to recalculate my monthly budget.

 

 

[Sassy Romano]

The one commercial reason that I can understand, is that a merchant can then offer the same item with a different texture.  It's not a model which I support but that's about the only "reason" I can see that fits.

[VaIentine]

I mostly sell full perm, however, I do understand why a content creator may want to have the item they made no modify. Simply, pride in their work. If a content creator works for days to fine tune a dress texture for a pice of mesh, and the sell it mod, the customer could then tint the dress to be matte black with no detail at all, or change it to a horrible color shade that would ruin the creators texture work. This then is seen by all the people that customer encounters, possibly leaving a negative representation of the creators items. 

[Pamela Galli]

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VaIentine wrote:

I mostly sell full perm, however, I do understand why a content creator may not want to have the item they made no modify. Simply, pride in their work. If a content creator works for days to fine tune a dress texture for a pice of mesh, and the sell it mod, the customer could then tint the dress to be matte black with no detail at all, or change it to a horrible color shade that would ruin the creators texture work. This then is seen by all the people that customer encounters, possibly leaving a negative representation of the creators items. 

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One would have to be awfully insecure about ones reputation to fear injuring it so much. 

The customer who redid my villa in purple and black? I could only compliment her on her creativity. :-) 

[Sassy Romano]

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VaIentine wrote:

 If a content creator works for days to fine tune a dress texture for a pice of mesh, and the sell it mod, the customer could then tint the dress to be matte black with no detail at all, or change it to a horrible color shade that would ruin the creators texture work.

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Or look at it the other way, the texturising person wasted time making textures that weren't met by the customer need.  What a waste of time!

Other than that, what Pamela said.  None of the texturers work has been ruined, i'm pretty sure the texture UUID and it's representative bitmap is still the same, I suspect that the only product "ruined" is the one owned by the customer but even then, it hasn't been ruined as it's now what the customer wanted.

[Codex Alpha]

My response is in the context of non-clothing, non-avatar meshes, but I can offer reasons for no-mod, and be quite upfront about it.

1) Pride. I don't want my product torn apart and used as lego pieces. That was not the intent of creating the item, and I hoped people purchased the item because they liked it as is, and not as spare parts.

2) Design. It was designed as such, so why need mod? A nice octopus table I bought had no copy/ no mod on it, and I was fine with it.. How would I make it any prettier than it already was? Though copy would be nice for safety issues, I've owned several no-mod items and was fine with it. But that's why I bought them. cuz I liked how they looked, no need to change.

3) Integrity. Some products rely on scripting to operate properly, and really there is no reason to mod it. If its for resizing, a resize script can be added. Also, modding breaks animations and sit positions that are added that may not be adjustable after the fact.

4) My intent isnt to sell builders parts. Kind of the same as the above 3, but there is a lot of work that goes into mesh design, UVing, texturing, custom bakes perhaps, LOD creations which all seem moot if we put it up to be changed. As someone else stated, why go through all the work of concepting, meshing and texturing if the end use is to be changed (and defiled! ) anyway.

5) Percieved Value I don't like this trend for customers demanding no copy/ no mod. IN some ways, it cheapens the product that it can be replicated 100's of times across 100s of sims - like buying that beautiful Maserati in world, then cheapening it because you can replicate it 100 times at all your friends houses - rather than be parked in its single state at your inworld home.

That octopus table, architects chair/table, club chair, etc that I bought in the past with no copy/no mod were special items to me and I looked after them likewise. Noone got to sit in that chair, that was MINE! It wouldnt be the same if I could just rez 10 of them for all to sit in.

6) Common sense Why does anyone expect to go buy a Maserati, then go home and copy mod it anyway? Does copy permissions exist in RL?

 

Of course, the caveat is that these could be psychological weaknesses in myself, but I hoped to clarify why some creators may not like to do this - valid reasons or not.

In the end, if I'm not happy and take pride in my products, and feel they are appreciated, I won't make anymore. So let's not get too demandy of them (demandy isnt a word, but who cares, it works )

[Pussycat Catnap]

Well if you want to talk rezzed items - I flat out will not buy no-mod furniture. And rarely get no-copy (I have a small number of gatcha items that are furniture - these usually don't end up being normally rezzed things).

I have my own large collection of sits I like to use - and yes, I add them to my regular furniture. I pull out sits, and put new ones in.

I've bought many 'adult' items and pulled the adult poses out of them. I've also pulled couple poses out of things - in any open place (not behind a security orb), I will always make sure I have pulled the couple poses out of at least one item, so I have a place to sit without some creep coming along and messing with my avatar before I can hit the eject/ban buttons.

- Such a creep popped onto my head just yesterday when I was messing with the design on my land.

 

I am not a builder - but I mod almost every item I get and rez.

My avatar is 'too scale' - and that means I open up google every time I buy something, check what its real world dimensions should be, and change it to that. With precision - I use my own script so I can have that chair seat be the exact Xcm high that it should be. Not 5% less of 5% less of 5% less of 5% less of 5% less of 5% less of 5% less of 5% less of whatever it was... but I have my numbers that I want on it.

More often, I will scale something to 0.7893457231 or similar of what it was... because Xa/Xb = that. Clicking a resizer popup window a few dozen times doesn't get me there.

But even it it wasn't about numeric precision (which BTW, was my speciality when I was in the military - so this obsession got trained into me)... look back to my comment about my poses.

I might like your visual design, but you might not have the sits I use. This other brand might look almost as good as you - but I can add my sits, that I got from a third and fourth brand a few years back.

 

And... I REALLY DISLIKE texture trashing - when there are so many textures around that they are flickering because they can't all be rezzed at the same time.

So I do retexture a LOT of rezzed items. I have bought some very high end materials based wood, metal, stone, cement textures. My plan is to soon get some for fabrix also. I retexture walls, chair legs, floor runnings, tables, and so on... with these. In different repeats with a different color masked over them - the result being that I reduce the number of textures in my SL by a major factor. I use the same textures in my home, my boat lot, my actual boats, my public lands, my garden plots, and so on - so that as I teleport around them nothing has to rez. They're all set to different repeats, angles, and colors - so they look different, but are actually the same "data wise".

 

So when it comes to furnishings, homes, SL vehicles, and such - it has to be unless its some small minor decoration. Even then its best mod...

 

[Penny Patton]

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entity0x wrote:

My response is in the context of non-clothing, non-avatar meshes, but I can offer reasons for no-mod, and be quite upfront about it.

1) Pride

. I don't want my product torn apart and used as lego pieces. That was not the intent of creating the item, and I hoped people purchased the item because they liked it as is, and not as spare parts.

 

---

 I take pride in my work, too but I'm happy to see what creative uses people put that work toward. Are you creating art pieces to satisfy your own need for self expression, or are you creating art for people to use? In addition, I'd argue these two mindsets are not mutually exclusive. I create art for expression as well, but I believe the art gains value if others are able to use it for their own purposes.

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entity0x wrote:

 

2) Design

. It was designed as such, so why need mod? A nice octopus table I bought had no copy/ no mod on it, and I was fine with it.. How would I make it any prettier than it already was? Though copy would be nice for safety issues, I've owned several no-mod items and was fine with it. But that's why I bought them. cuz I liked how they looked, no need to change.

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Just because you see no way to improve on an item doesn't mean there is no way to improve upon it. What if I purchased this table and discovered that the creator, like most in SL, has no sense of scale and the table is far too large for me and included no resize script? If the table were moddable I could simply resize it manually, likely reducing the Land Impact cost of it as well.

What if I want to add my own animations? Tint the table subtly so it better blends with its surroundings? Sure, I might not be able to turn a blue table red via tinting, but the addition of a subtle hue to all the objects in a room can really bring it together.

 Here's a thought: Second Life is a digital, virtual world. What if I want to take advantage of that and set up my land with instanced skyboxes so I can completely change my build with the press of a button? If my land in SL were set up that way, and it is, I would have an infinitely expanding parcel and never run out of prims...but I would be entirely unable to use this table you describe because the creator never thought of that.

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entity0x wrote:

 

3) Integrity

. Some products rely on scripting to operate properly, and really there is no reason to mod it. If its for resizing, a resize script can be added. Also, modding breaks animations and sit positions that are added that may not be adjustable after the fact.

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Here's a good example of a case where the customer might know more about SL than the creator. Sit positions can be adjusted after the fact. I could buy a moddable chair, resize it, then replace the script with my own with adjusted positions. On top of adding my sit animations. I've done this many times. I'm sorry to be so blunt but what you describe isn't integrity, it's short sightedness.

Of course, I understand the concern that a customer might buy a script item and break it by attempting to mod it. This is why I encourage people to pack their creations in boxes, so the customer can always return to the original box and retrieve a fresh copy.

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entity0x wrote:

 

4) My intent isnt to sell builders parts

. Kind of the same as the above 3, but there is a lot of work that goes into mesh design, UVing, texturing, custom bakes perhaps, LOD creations which all seem moot if we put it up to be changed. As someone else stated, why go through all the work of concepting, meshing and texturing if the end use is to be changed (and defiled!

) anyway.

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See my reply to #1.

 

 

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entity0x wrote:

 

5) Percieved Value

I don't like this trend for customers demanding no copy/ no mod. IN some ways, it cheapens the product that it can be replicated 100's of times across 100s of sims - like buying that beautiful Maserati in world, then cheapening it because you can replicate it 100 times at all your friends houses - rather than be parked in its single state at your inworld home.

That octopus table, architects chair/table, club chair, etc that I bought in the past with no copy/no mod were special items to me and I looked after them likewise. Noone got to sit in that chair, that was MINE! It wouldnt be the same if I could just rez 10 of them for all to sit in.

 

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But the creator can create as many copies as they want. That chair you purchase IS copied 100's of times in 100's of sims, you just can't make another copy for yourself. So when LL makes a change which breaks your chair, or the asset servers crap out and eat your chair, how valuable is the chair then?

I still remember LL introducing alpha masks and phasing out invisiprims. A lot of people were stuck with no-mod shoes they'd spent an awful lot of money on but could no longer wear. People were furious at LL of course, but it's clear they made the right call (alpha masks are a huge improvement over invisiprims). 

 

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entity0x wrote:

 

6) Common sense

Why does anyone expect to go buy a Maserati, then go home and copy mod it anyway? Does copy permissions exist in RL?

 

 

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Wait, you think people don't mod their expensive cars in real life? EVERYTHING in RL comes with mod permissions, and yes people do go out, buy a Maserati, then modify it. To a lot of people, being able to customize an object, or even improve upon it, adds value. I imagine most people feel this way even if they aren't auto enthusiasts who go all out, most at least take advantage of these "mod perms" to perform basic maintenance. Like changing their own oil and tires.

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entity0x wrote:

Of course, the caveat is that these could be psychological weaknesses in myself, but I hoped to clarify why some creators may not like to do this - valid reasons or not.

In the end, if I'm not happy and take pride in my products, and feel they are appreciated, I won't make anymore. So let's not get too demandy of them (demandy isnt a word, but who cares, it works

)

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I appreciate the thoughts, even if I may not agree with them. :matte-motes-smile: Of course I'm not demanding all content creators conform to my wishes, just sharing my own perspective on the issue and shedding some light on misinformation which leads to other explanations people have given for selling no-mod content.

The trend in recent years has been going more and more towards no-mod content, severely restricting the creativity and freedom that used to be rampant in SL, not to mention resulting in content which carries hidden costs. Certainly as a customer I am not going to buy an item I cannot use.

[Chic Aeon]

I definitely understand the "pride in my work" comments and the need to keep "work as original". That being said I sell almost everything mod-copy. There may be a few no mod items of mine out there but I can't think of many. 

 

There is one issue though that hasn't been mentioned here (or I missed it as I was reading quickly). When someone mods an item (let's say rezzable item) then it MAY no longer look like the original. Someone may see that item and contact the creator WANTING that item (which of course wasn't completely made by the creator. 

 

Most of the time folks mod for size and I certainly get that as some of the items I see are made for GIANTS (and I am 2 meters tall). Others however may take the build AS building blocks (already mentioned). I had someone write last year wanted to know where they could buy my two bedroom Bayou Shack. There never has been a "two bedroom Bayou Shack" so I had to assume someone modded it (it was modular).  

 

There are issues with mod and there are issues with no-mod. The best we can do is pick and choose what we buy AND buy demos. 

 

 

 

 

[Codex Alpha]

I agree with the practical aspects of modification and copy. I just think it very strange that someone would want to go to great lengths to change, hobble or rebuild a product they purchased because thats why they got it in the first place.

It all depends on the goal of the creator I guess, and what the buyer feels entitled to. This is a virtual space, so the same logic applied to what is pretty much unlimited copies available of an item isn't the same.

I'll have to self-assess a bit more to see what I really feel about this, and perhaps adjust my goals and expectations as far as sharing future creative pieces, and stick to more generic fare that people can customize themselves until the cows come home, and save the unique designs for other sites.

Thanks for your reply though, some points I'll have to think about.

 

[pleasureboi]

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entity0x wrote:

I just think it very strange that someone would want to go to great lengths to change, hobble or rebuild a product they purchased because thats why they got it in the first place.

It all depends on the goal of the creator I guess, and what the buyer feels entitled to. 

 

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I am a programmer by trade, it's how I have made a living for decades, I release my personal code under GPLV3 so that people can take it and change it to better suit them. 

When I buy mesh I like to improve, combine it, and make it better suit me. As one example Spijkers and Wingtips have a free FULLY MOD quadcopter that they put in group notices every now and again. This is one of the most fun, and most sim crossing stable vehicles in SL, and they give it for free, and mod.

I turned mine into a dual seater using my own animation, added weapons from another copter, added instruments from another copter, added my own PSD graphics to further customise it.

To give another example, I have a nice BDSM device from B&H but it is no mod, it is also made for 9' tall people, so FAR too big. It is wasted money and completely useless, despite it being fantasticly animated. On the other hand I can grab *anything* from Nerenzo and replace his V1 Avsitter Scripts with my own V2 Acsitter scripts, add the poles, and move my guests.

 

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

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entity0x wrote:

I agree with the practical aspects of modification and copy. I just think it very strange that someone would want to go to great lengths to change, hobble or rebuild a product they purchased because thats why they got it in the first place.

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You don't actually know why someone got something in the first place. I repurpose things all the time. It's fun and suits my style of creativity. Being able to do so is why I am still in SL. I know I am not unique in this, modding is important to a lot of us. Think about it, modding is important enough in virtual worlds and games (and real life) that people came up for a word to describe it.

There's also the frequent "I like most of this, but it would be perfect if only..." scenario. Mod lets each of us not only adjust things to suit our personal tastes, individual uses, graphics cards, graphics settings and preferred windlight, but to adapt when any of those change. Has your SL been static? Are you still doing the same things you were when you first joined? Are you still using the same computer? :matte-motes-smile: Do you expect to be for the rest of your time here?

Bottom line - how you see your creations on your computer is not how I see them on mine. Your decisions might be perfect for you, but that doesn't mean they will be perfect for everyone else.

Shared creativity is the absolute strength of SL. No mod limits it to playing mix and match with elements, but just look at how invested many SL shoppers are about this even if they never think about creating something from scratch. Individualising things matters.

Modding prim & sculpt builds, retexturing them, playing with prims and sculpts, and then texturing purchased full perm mesh were all vital steps on my road to creating original mesh. They got me thinking about creating. The person who wants to mod your no-mod table might be on a similar path. Is your artistic vision so precious you won't allow them that?

[Paul Hexem]

Just recently in RL my parents bought a camper.

They loved it, but my mom was worried there wasn't enough cabinet space.

My dad called me up and we took one look at it and said "Not a problem." They bought it, and we installed the cabinets my mom wanted to make it perfect.

Same concept applies to SL.

[Codex Alpha]

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Sassy Romano wrote:

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VaIentine wrote:

 If a content creator works for days to fine tune a dress texture for a pice of mesh, and the sell it mod, the customer could then tint the dress to be matte black with no detail at all, or change it to a horrible color shade that would ruin the creators texture work.

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Or look at it the other way, the texturising person wasted time making textures that weren't met by the customer need.  What a waste of time!

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This is my concern, or any other design decisions being made, like adding sit positions, animations, scripting or otherwise.

I understand why a customer would love that freedom, but on my end, why bother doing all sorts of stuff, and doesn't this defeat the purpose in the end? If a creator isn't thinking "I'm making cool things" and instead shifts to "make things for ultimate user end use.." when did this change?

When I started SL, it certainly wasn't the concern of creators back then. They made what they made, I modded what I wanted to mod - I didnt try to fix their out of scale furniture for example, I just didn't buy it.

So now I'm faced with a challenge when considering releasing some new stuff. I had 5 designs in mind (texture-wise) for a product, and though none of them may appeal to the end user (how will I know what styles they want), I have to decide "do i bother making the custom/handpainted textures, or just unwrap the model, slap basic textures as a starting point and present it as-is?"

Why spend time doing the cool flaming effect on a product, if it's just going to be replaced by some random texture?

What happened to 'if it's not on the menu, it's not for dinner' and suddenly SL is an opensource project?

Seems counter-intuitive to a creative person to do that, I guess it all depends what your end goals is, and what market you want to pander to.

 

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Bitsy Buccaneer wrote;

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Modding prim & sculpt builds, retexturing them, playing with prims and sculpts, and then texturing purchased full perm mesh were all vital steps on my road to creating original mesh. They got me thinking about creating. The person who wants to mod your no-mod table might be on a similar path. Is your artistic vision so precious you won't allow them that?

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No, it's not that precious, it just seems counter-intuitive. I guess we could all start releasing mesh only with no texturing, and start selling 'silhouettes' of things instead. Why put so much work on something that will likely change.. assuming most users of SL are mod hounds...

It's just a shift in my thinking about end use in SL may be needed apparently. Or not

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

Are you trolling us or do you really believe all that?

And how did you get from people wanting the option to mod to everyone throwing away your precious textures?

[Sassy Romano]

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entity0x wrote:

I understand why a customer would love that freedom, but on my end, why bother doing all sorts of stuff, and doesn't this defeat the purpose in the end? If a creator isn't thinking "I'm making cool things" and instead shifts to "make things for ultimate user end use.." when did this change?

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My view is simple but then the bulk of my products are not.  Therefore I consider that the value in the product is the sum of the parts and not one sole element.  As such I expect (and encourage) people to modify, extend or whatever to their will.

I'm not the greatest texture artist by any stretch but that's just one element of what I offer and so where appropriate, i'll include layered .PSD's, the UV map of the mesh item and where necessary, customisable HUD to help people get their textures onto the item.

But as I mentioned, textures alone are just one aspect, i've always aimed at any of the system things to be extendable through designed in functionality.

Yes, sometimes I cringe when I see a solid black texture but then you can apply the same solid black texture to something with normal mapping and advanced lighting and it turns from flat black to luscious latex!

If someone wishes to make a conscious decision to set their items as no modify, that's their choice and the customers to buy or not.

What does bug me is the misinformation around when some people make an item no modify because they're led to believe the type of examples in Penny's original post.

The one I think she missed was "I have to set the object to no modify because the scripts inside are no modify".  Heard that too many times.