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Anybody else? Trouble getting refreshed Forums login to "stick" at first?


Qie Niangao
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I'm kinda reminded of this old bug, but it's not as bad (don't get dumped to the Blog) nor maybe quite as frequent, but I'm having trouble with renewing a Forums login session: the first renewed login often immediately expires and I have to do it again. Anybody else seeing that?

I doubt it matters, but I'm using Chrome 54.0.2840.99 m (which is updating itself as I type) on Windows 10 (which just updated itself last night) but this has been going on for, I dunno, a week or so.

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For the last few days, I've been having what sounds like the same fault, and it does it without fail.

I log into the forum. Then I go into a thread, when I come out of the thread, I'm logged out, and I have to log in again. Then I stay logged in. All that happens quite quickly, so I've no idea if it would still happen if I didn't go into a thread so soon after logging in.

As you said, it's no big deal - just an extra click on the 'Login' link.

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Yep, just happened to me when trying to reply here.  I'd only logged into the forum 5 minutes ago & had to login again to post this reply.

Possibly related: https://community.secondlife.com/t5/Everything-Else/I-m-sometimes-getting-a-quot-Failed-Authentication-quot-message/qaq-p/3086660

Using Firefox 50.0.2, Windows 7 64bit.

 

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Yup.  The forum software has been doing that to me for a few days now.  I somehow doubt that the in house team at LL is spilling Diet Coke in the innards, but you never know.  More likely, they are experimenting with new anti-spam routines. I am always glad to see that sort of fiddling, even if it has temporary annoying side effects. 

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Everything old is new again, I seem to remember this exact thing happening before at least once.

I've been unable to type a reply fast enough before it logs me out while on the post message page. No other navigation is done and it will just error about invalid auth token if I take longer than a minute to submit the post. I've been having to type all replies in notenpad (in HTML because the WYSIWYG editor is trash) and pasting in after freshly logging back in and going to reply. Even its still thrown invalid tokens at me.

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Rolig Loon wrote:

More likely, they are experimenting with new anti-spam routines. I am always glad to see that sort of fiddling, even if it has temporary annoying side effects. 

Yes I can agree to that but they're sure in no hurry to finish the job. It's been two weeks now.

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  • 3 weeks later...


Whirly Fizzle wrote:

Yes, Lindal filed a bug report:

... which was closed as "Unactionable" yesterday. So what we see is apparently what we're gonna get, until it rots further or magically heals itself as a side-effect of some other change.

I suspect the Lindens never really understood this bug nor had a hint of how aggravating it can be. (Not that it would be very high on the priority list, even if they did.)

If we could think of something that forced somebody in power to actually try to use this place for any length of time, maybe they'd understand.

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Does this suggest that LL is removing further resources from SL maintenance to try to catch up on the delayed Sansar development? We know that forum management has always been a very low priority to LL, and presumably Lithium have washed their hands of LL's pathetic implementation of their software. Whenever I see a problem with the forum signon (or the mysecondlife lashup) I presume that it's a result of LL's unavailing desperate and continuingly unsuccessful attempts to resolve the ongoing security problems with "single" sign-on and accurate verification and validation of users where user information databases have to be replicated outside the domain managed by the principal. Or maybe they are preparing to abandon these forums, in preparation for a new intra-communications paradigm associated with Sansar - what do you think THAT might be, given Ebbe's history of failed attempts at novel socialised interaction at previous employments?

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Cerise Sorbet wrote:

This forum is Lithium's own implementation of Lithium's own software and hosted by Lithium. LL is just a customer. There are limits to how much LL can do to work around its problems.

Hence the continuing sagas of corruption of user identity files replicated across only semi-compatible systems

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ChadUnfroyd wrote:

...

and presumably Lithium have washed their hands of LL's pathetic implementation of their software.

...


Cerise Sorbet wrote:

This forum is Lithium's own implementation of Lithium's own software and hosted by Lithium.

So it's Lithium's pathetic implementation on Lithium's software then?

 


Qie Niangao wrote:


Whirly Fizzle wrote:

Yes, Lindal filed a bug report:

... which was closed as "Unactionable" yesterday.

To sum it up: Lithium fails to deliver the services LL pays for and LL can't do anything about it because of vendor lock-in. :(

Farming out auxiliary services can make a lot of sense for a company but if you do, make absolutely sure you choose a reliable provider who gives adequate service and will continue to do so.

In other words: if you're looking for a host for your message board, stay away from Lithium and if you're looking for a host for your virtual showroom...

In other other words: if you're offering auxiliary services to other companies and your solution causes vendor lock-in, make absolutely sure and absolutely clear you can deliver and continue to deliver. Also, make absolutely sure you have a spotless record for doing so in the past. If not, serious customers will shy away from you. They've all learned from their mistakes by now.

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I dunno. I'll wager that there's some Kustom Kode that lashes together Lithium and whatever LL is using these days as SSO authentication across their user-facing web.

Like, it's supposed to be that a Forums login qualifies you to look at your dashboard, file support tickets, buy Marketplace junk, trade on Lindex (maybe?), but not bid on auctions, nor file a jira (I guess?).

Updating the wiki, of course, is authorized by men wearing very dark glasses, talking into their lapels. But I digress.

If anybody at LL or Lithium can even remember where that Kustom Kode runs, its developer must be long since *UNACTIONABLE*, hence the fate of Lindal's jira.


EDIT: Yes, "qualifies" confounds authentication and authorization. One might think that all these systems would share authentication credentials, and perhaps separately manage which users are authorized for which actions in each system. But as far as I can tell, the Lithium lash-up doesn't seem to be maintaining stable session credentials at all.

(Although, this morning, I haven't encountered the problem, so maybe... dare we hope?)

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Qie Niangao wrote:

Like, it's supposed to be that a Forums login qualifies you to look at your dashboard, file support tickets, buy Marketplace junk, trade on Lindex (maybe?), but not bid on auctions, nor file a jira (I guess?)

If so, that has never ever worked. Forum logon has always been separate from everything else at least for as long as I've been here.

That being said, I had a look at my cookies to see which domain the forum cookies are set to and it turns out there are cookies set by the forum both to secondlife.com and secondlife.i.lithium.com. That surprised me a little bit and I'm not sure what it implies. Another anomaly is that one of the cookies expires Januray 10th 2027. That must mean it was reset two days ago and I can't think of any reason why.

In any case, the recent login issue is hardly the only glitch here. Considering that Lithium costs several thousand dollars a month I really think it's fair to say that the performance of this forum is underwhelming.

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