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Behaviour of vendors after a negative review of their product.


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  I am sure that there are several of us who have purchased an item off Marketplace and have not been satisfied for whatever reason.   We then decide to make a negative review of that product.  

     However, on occasions some of us have received abusive IMs from that vendor over the review.

     Perhaps I am being naive, but surely it is the vendor's responsibility to either assist the customer or make an effort to improve their product rather than attack the customer.  In other words...  After Sales Service!

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This is SL, they're just here to make a quick buck from their recently learned photoshop skills.

 

  • Merchants can easily flag and remove any negative reviews for any reason. Already proven years ago
  • Merchants can easily sell you an empty box and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. LL won't refund money, and you can't talk about it on the forum or the mods will think you're "naming and shaming", lmao. Let's all be shady merchants because there are absolutely zero consequences, seriously
  • After sale service? Lol... I think you're being a bit too optimistic and naive here. Out of every 10 shops, you'd be lucky if 1 of them provides "after sale service". 9 of them will provide what I call "after sale screw you we got your money harharhar"

 

I've had this store owner stalk me in my sim and grief (spamming my sim with objects with sim-crashing scripts and particles) after I exposed his **bleep**ty borderline nonfunctional products, true story.

Expect anything to happen in a game like this.

 

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There are times when negative reviews are warrented. 

There are times with COMPETITORS buy items simply to give a bad one star review and force the item down via the star thing.

SELLERS CANNOT GET A REVIEW REMOVED JUST BY ASKING!!!! Yes, caps.

 

Somtimes negative reviews are simply mistakes and those reviews are often removed. Others "stick" even though they are not legit. 

 

This is NOT new.  It is what it is.

HENCE, best to get a demo or view item in world before purchasing. I certainly DO THAT.

 

 

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melaniehaughton wrote:

  I am sure that there are several of us who have purchased an item off Marketplace and have not been satisfied for whatever reason.   We then decide to make a negative review of that product.  

     However, on occasions some of us have received abusive IMs from that vendor over the review.

     Perhaps I am being naive, but surely it is the vendor's responsibility to either assist the customer or make an effort to improve their product rather than attack the customer.  In other words...  After Sales Service!

Its your responsibility to ask for assistance. I'm certainly not condoning abusive behavior, but every merchant who has been doing this long enough will have received a bad review from a customer who didn't read instructions, had no patience, didn't ask for assistance, or all of the above. Sometimes those reviews are abusive.

Most people wouldn't want a merchant contacting them to make sure they're happy, some might even consider that harassment. All we can reasonably do is make ourselves available for customers to contact us.

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I always contact merchants when there is an issue, before leaving a review. I personally find it in better taste, though others' opinions may vary on the subject. If a seller does not make good on a product that's actually very bad, does not attempt to make good, or generally turns into a doucehcanoe, then they get a negative review-baed on the product and their inability/unwillingness to fix whatever is whacked. It's ony happened twice to me since MP's inception, so I'd say my method works well for me. Most folks get good reviews from me, because most products I buy, are good. If they aren't, and it's not necessarily something that can be fixed easily, or it's really a minor issue, I still contact them, and leave a review stating that. They're never rude though, and always neutral reviews rather than negative in these cases. 

As a merchant, I prefer customers contact me if there is an issue, either along with leaving a review, or before, whatever works best for them. Many merchants do not get notifications when reviews are left, which kinda sucks, but, it is what it is. If I get a negative review, I *always* reimburse the purchaser, and respond when I see it, indicating precisely that. Sadly, many customers don't contact merchants and just run for the negative review thing-which is just...odd.

I wouldn't berate a customer any more than I'd want them doing it to me, though. It has happened to me, on more than one occasion, and always results in me putting on an extra sweet exterior, refunding, and thanking them for their business. For me, responding in kind(ie, berating them, or harrassing them) is about as useful as trying to nail prepared jello to a tree. It's just plain messy, and doens't work out for any involved party :D

 

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melaniehaughton wrote:

  I am sure that there are several of us who have purchased an item off Marketplace and have not been satisfied for whatever reason.   We then decide to make a negative review of that product.  

     However, on occasions some of us have received abusive IMs from that vendor over the review.

I've heard people complain about this, after abuse giving a bad review or about fraud, but I never had an issue with it in over 10+years. The majority of merchants don't do this from my own experience and from the experience of my friends. 

To be clear, there is no excuse for those behaviors you describe.  That's why LL gave us the tools to deal with this.  Eject/Block/Ban also there is Derender permanently on Firestorm and other third party viewers then file an AR if there is a TOS violation. 

If I ever did have a merchant do this to me, I'd Eject/Block/Ban/Derender so they couldn't communicate with me at all and I wouldn't have to listen to their ranting.  I would
not ever
change or delete mey review, first because I won't give into blackmail, and second I am always careful to be very factual on my reviews about the product actually as described on the MP and any mistakes I find in it.  I leave emotions out of it, don't call anyone names or personally attack them.  If the merchant wants to leave a nasty or attacking comment on my review, I really wouldn't care.  People that read and take note of reviews can tell when someone is being an a$$, do they are only hurting themselves.

     Perhaps I am being naive, but surely it is the vendor's responsibility to either assist the customer or make an effort to improve their product rather than attack the customer.  In other words...  After Sales Service!

It is the vendors responsibility deliver a product as exactly described on the MP, to correct any technical mistakes made in the creation of the product or clarify any confusing or poorly worded instructions, but not to teach skills needed to use the product to people who lack them or to teach someone to use the product when they haven't even read the instructions.  But many will. 

Improving products is good.  If you have a suggestion about wanting a different color, different permissions, or different or added features of a product etc., send it to the merchant in a polite notecard.  Reviews are not the place to complain about things that were not advertised.  Maybe they will take your suggestion and use it, but they aren't obligated to.  Nor are they obligate to give out new versions of a product for free.  However many merchants welcome suggestions and will do these things. 

The bottom line is if you buy a product that was accurately described and that's what you got, you have no complaint unless there were technical errors made or the item was of poor construction.

Sometimes customers expect too much too.  They pay a tiny bit of money in terms of RL money (a tiny fraction of a US cent for every $1L, and then expect 24/7 instant service or a merchant to spend a
long
time with the customer doing things they aren't obligated to do.  They wouldn't expect to go to Walmart and get this, or even Saks 5th Avenue.  Merchants do have RL's with RL issues that come up like us all.  Creating new things is another thing that takes hours, weeks or even months and most of the merchants time, and increasingly this is done outside of SL.

My own experience is that most merchants are pleasant to deal with and when they receive a polite and respectful request for service, that is reasonable, they comply as soon as they can and work with me to resolve the issue.  But if someone rants and raves like some do on this forum, is rude, disrespectful or generally acts nasty they might not get very far or receive prompt pleasant service back. Merchants are human and that's just human nature.

 

If you do run into a uncooperative, fraudulent, or bad merchant and tried to resolve a legitimate issue without success , then just cut your losses leave a low review (provided it's fair and factual not personally attacking) and don't buy again from that merchant.  It's just not worth ruining your SL to carry on.  Just be glad that you spent such a tiny amount compared to what you'd pay in RL for a product .

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I will say this; I can corroborate being harrassed by a merchant and their clique after leaving a bad review.

After going and looking at the product's other reviews, anything short of 5 stars had comments jumping on the reviewer in similar fashion, or the reviewer commenting that they were harassed.

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melaniehaughton wrote:

  I am sure that there are several of us who have purchased an item off Marketplace and have not been satisfied for whatever reason.   We then decide to make a negative review of that product.  

     However, on occasions some of us have received abusive IMs from that vendor over the review.

     Perhaps I am being naive, but surely it is the vendor's responsibility to either assist the customer or make an effort to improve their product rather than attack the customer.  In other words...  After Sales Service!

Yes. I could not agree with you more.

I recall this topic coming up some years ago here. Out of curiosity I peek in here once in a great while if I have to update my account or something. It is sad to hear this is still going on.

I haven't changed my opinion on this, ever, despite being harassed about this myself. A product should be ready for use and review when it is sold. The customer pays real money, however small a real life amount, and has every right to leave a review. Merchants who do not like the review process do not have to sell things in Second Life, or can take it up with LL.

The forum hasn't aged a day.

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Gunner Grun wrote:

Did you try and get a hold of the merchant first to see if there was a fix for whatever you didn't like or did you just leave a bad review without contacting them.

The customer has absolutely no obligation to the merchant.

Why do some merchants feel otherwise? That is a rhetorical question. There is no defensible reason a merchant should order a customer to contact them prior to leaving a review, let alone break TOS and harass them for leaving a review.

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Melita Magic wrote:


Gunner Grun wrote:

Did you try and get a hold of the merchant first to see if there was a fix for whatever you didn't like or did you just leave a bad review without contacting them.

The customer has absolutely no obligation to the merchant.

Why do some merchants feel otherwise? That is a rhetorical question. There is no defensible reason a merchant should order a customer to contact them prior to leaving a review, let alone break TOS and harass them for leaving a review.

No one is ordering you to do anything. No merchant in this thread (or anywhere else I've seen on these forums) has suggested that harassment and abuse is an acceptable response to a negative review.

Sometimes, a customer doesn't actually understand how to use a product, for any number of reasons. Sometimes, merchants make genuine mistakes when listing products - they're not trying to scam you, they just messed up.

Presumably, you paid the merchant for something you wanted. If your expectations are not met for whatever reason, surely its worth contacting them? Its not an obligation, its self-interest.

 

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"The customer has absolutely no obligation to the merchant.

Why do some merchants feel otherwise? That is a rhetorical question. There is no defensible reason a merchant should order a customer to contact them prior to leaving a review, let alone break TOS and harass them for leaving a review."

 

Actually just like in RL if you purchase something and it doesn't work properly or you can't figure out how to work it the appropriate, adult way to handle the situation is to contact the company and ask for assistance so they have a chance to help and provide you with exactly what you want or need.

Argumentative, rude, abusive behaviour is not well met in RL or SL and honestly, most merchant's in SL don't make enough to have to put up with rude, arrogant people that aren't even willing to let the creator know there is a problem in the first place.  To put it in a bit of a perspective, I just bought 12 full perm animations at 5000L$ apiece, that comes to 60,000L$ which in turn if you purchase that amount right now you would have to spend $232.56 USD.  The item I am making of course has over 200 more animations, as well as multiple textures, the mesh itself & the 12 to 18 hours that gets put into building the piece, but will only end up costing about 500L$ ($1.92 USD ) for my customers to purchase.  If I make a mistake and someone leaves a horrid review without even telling me there was a mistake and I contact them to try and fix the problem and get chewed out, called names, etc. (Had it happen) then why should I have to put up with that?  I will bend over backwards to help anyone that approaches me kindly and allows me to help solve a problem, but, I will mute and ban if I am treated badly and then there really will be no customer service given because I won't even know you have a problem.

People seem to think it's super easy and cheap to make things, but, it's not and unless you're one of the elite creators (like the ones that run the subscription boxes that make over $4000 USD a month just from the subscription box alone, not even counting her multiple stores) most of us creators barely make enough to buy more items to build with and maybe if we are lucky make enough to pay for a piece of land for an inworld store, most of the time it takes me about year or more to make back what I put into each product I make and even come close to making a profit, so yes, I think that deserves a little respect and common decency.  Customers do us a favor by buying our products, but, it works both ways, we are doing you a favor as well since you buy our products because you can't or won't make them yourselves.

People really need to get in touch with the old school mentality of respecting other people, this entitlement mentality is what is killing the world.

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  • 1 year later...

Hi to everyone, i just got some problems with one costumer on the marketplace

Review based on hate.
Reasons bellow :
This girl bought the chloe skin after that she asking for my Chloe PSD
I refused to distribute Chloe PSD to this person cause chloe description says clearly is PNG format,she also tried demo before buying,liked it and purchased.
I do not say she started to complain that she lost her money and is not PSD.
After she did not get that skin PSD,bought all the demo from my store and started posting reviews based on hate.
Reviews are supposed to help buyers but how can buyers make the difference between false or correct reviews? Just trying the demo no?.
Also chloe on full version have one good review from a real costumer not from my friends but all demos have bad reviews from this person wich want chloe PSD forced from  me .
As a result she found the solution to harass me like that, but there existing demo  you  all can test demo before buying, is just sad cause sometime reviews no help and is posted false.
Below is chloe discription which she read before buying and tested demo before buying.

Pack Contents :

* 8 Different Skin Tones 
* With brows & without brows 
* Catwa & Maitreya neck fix templates tga for all 8 tones,. 
* Omega applier. 
* Can work with others heads also.

* All are in PNG file.1024x1024

*Before Buying Read Everything Carefully.. No Refund is Allowed for any Purchase(s).

My question is what i can do in this case? for sure i will no give now my PSD forced i no let me blackmailed but i wonder how creators or sellers can be protected of abuse like that?.

Thank you verry much

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Looking at the bad review in question:

Quote

Skin solo en formato PNG, piel con imperfecciones y poco definida, no lleva pecho normal solo uno con un escote feo y borroso (no se puede modificar), para poner labios debe ser encima de los que lleva, ojos con raya interior negra dificil de modificar, lleva incorporado un colorete que tampoco se puede quitar para poner otro distinto, a favor solo tiene los tonos de piel que no estan mal y que te incluye el neckfix, por lo demas un desastre, no recomiendo su compra.

First and main thing that strikes me, is that the upset customer  is not a native English speaker. Considering this is a full perm skin, I also find it unusual to see it sold as a PNG myself (Why not TGA?). If I didn't speak English then your English words in the ad saying

Quote

* All are in PNG file.1024x1024

may as well read

Quote

*すべてがPNG形式のファイルです.1024x1024

see how it carries  less meaning?  Yes yes caveat emptor and all that and she could ask before purchase or more before spending her US$5, but people are silly, and you need to bop them on the head with it very clearly. 

Chloe_vendor_demo.jpg.3193f2a4935cbbdb0ef4a113eb516721.jpg

See your png note under the 8 tones and how it's lost there, not just lost, it's barely noticeable. Especially when your average customer will have the IQ of a gnat. If that.

Consider that you can do this slightly clearer, and consider please you will have German customers, Spanish customers, French customers, Brazillian customers... and on and on, some of them will not be so smart. 

Maybe this as a suggestion: You know how people do the Mod/Copy/Transfer ticks and crosses. Add a PSD X in red and a PNG Tick in green *prominently* on your product, a good place might be over her right breast. Better again, dont use PNG as it's a compressed format, and loses resolution. Do them in TGA

 

Now, your response, it's clear you were hurt, and saddened by the customer. But I don't think your response here is professional.

Quote

[redacted],frist you has read before purchased the content info (discription about what product contain), then you insisted much give u my psd file for chloe and i refuse you when i refuse, you start complain lost money because is not PSD, and no told me anything about neck lines or others issues because the issues is a lie,you now post me bad reviews because i refuse give you the psd file or give you money back as is my fault you buy one png and not psd but this is PNG so i think is verry ugly from your part to harassing me with bad and no truth reviews just because i refuse give you my psd file on this skin but no worried costumers have a demo for try and for see what a lie you posted here. 
When you tested demo you dont seen any issues on this skin but when i refuse give you psd you start found issues on skin no?. 
I am sorry but i dont give you forced my PSD or free this skin can you post how much wish.

It seems a little ranty and clearly done in anger/sadness.

Getting a bad review hurts, especially if it's a revenge one, but you need to stay very professional. Your response will be seen by future customers, and reading your hurt words there and how it's affected your spelling, and also made you use "u" instead of "you", they may be turned away.

Don't reply hurt, don't reply angry, don't shame the customer, flag the spiteful review as Pamela suggests and possibly leave a professional

"Sorry you were not happy with your purchase. Image format is clearly listed. Sadly I can't refund full perm items"

Please consider that some of your customers will be lacking intelligence. Make your pictures a little clearer.

Edited by Callum Meriman
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As a consumer, I take most reviews with a grain of salt. If it’s ranty or nonsensical or is a sentence I totally disregard them. That’s about 70% of them. About 10% are novel length and a little too technical and critical of things I could care less about. The rest are thoughtful and helpful.

What LL should do is add a “was this review helpful” or “x # of people found this helpful” line under a review. Really bad reviews aren’t a disqualifier to me as a consumer. But a little counter would let the creator know, yes that reviewer is crazy! I don’t often write a counter review. So that would be a much simpler option.

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29 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I usually forget to check MP reviews before buying.

Yeah...

I look at them. I can probably count on one hand how many times they’ve been a deciding factor though.

If I’m on MP to begin with I’m either looking for something as a last resort or I don’t even know where to begin to look inworld. So 9 times out of 10 I’ve already made up my mind about it because I really wanted it or needed it to begin with.

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9 minutes ago, janetosilio said:

Yeah...

I look at them. I can probably count on one hand how many times they’ve been a deciding factor though.

If I’m on MP to begin with I’m either looking for something as a last resort or I don’t even know where to begin to look inworld. So 9 times out of 10 I’ve already made up my mind about it because I really wanted it or needed it to begin with.

Example of why I don’t usually: one of the things I buy is lion avatars. It doesn’t matter how cr*ppt, primmy, poorly designed, I generally buy them all. For some reason Mesh costs so much more (even though unlike non-mesh, furry avatars have many less mods than humans).

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16 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

Better again, dont use PNG as it's a compressed format, and loses resolution. Do them in TGA.

Just for the record... PNG is NOT a lossy compression format like JPEG, it is a LOSSLESS format, also TGA's have the option of being compressed or not.

The only real differences between the two vis a vis quality is... PNG is designed for online use, and doesn't work too well with CMYK colour space used in commercial printing, supports a wider range of bit-depths ( I've seen 48 bit rgb's and 64 bit rgba's for example), and...

Many years ago, Adumby Photosnob had a very poor implementation for PNG's alpha channels. Can't say if that's been fixed or not, as I don't use that particular image editor.

There is NO reason not to use PNG for online work, except malicious rumours from old old Photosnob users...
 

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