Am I not allowed to put my items inworld cheaper than the mp price?

[Love Zhaoying]

17 hours ago, Dakota Linden said:

Every merchant is more than welcome to, and completely free to, have in world sales on their items. They may not, however, use listings on the Marketplace to advertise those in world sales. 

I think this statement is key to understanding the issue!

[Sassy Romano]

That phrase is not referenced in the MP terms.  What has always been defined is the disallowed practice of "inflated listing price against inworld or other e-commerce sites" but with no reference to fairness with other merchants or disallowed advertising of inworld sales.

I'm suggesting a re-write of the MP terms to provide suitable clarity as there now seem to be new terms and their definitions, that would be by far the simplest and clearest mop up.

[Dakota Linden]

3 hours ago, Sassy Romano said:

That phrase is not referenced in the MP terms.  What has always been defined is the disallowed practice of "inflated listing price against inworld or other e-commerce sites" but with no reference to fairness with other merchants or disallowed advertising of inworld sales.

I'm suggesting a re-write of the MP terms to provide suitable clarity as there now seem to be new terms and their definitions, that would be by far the simplest and clearest mop up.

There aren't new terms. The terms are the same as they have always been.  If Linden Lab is advised that a Marketplace Merchant is selling the same items in world for a lower price than on the Marketplace, the issue will be addressed with the seller. 

It is even an option when reporting a product listing using the Flag option:

Spam or Disallowed Listing Practices - Inflated Listing Price

[Sassy Romano]

Yes, that has been my whole point, it has never had anything to do with fairness towards other merchants but always about a merchant selling the same items inworld for a lower price than on Marketplace, exactly the flag option that i've referenced in the thread earlier.

So, back to the question then as to how a merchant holds a sale inworld when the price will be lower inworld price than on Marketplace without falling foul of this disallowed practice?!  The price will be lower inworld than on MP irrespective of whether the listing advertises it to be cheaper inworld or not.  As I have pointed out, such additional terms have never been referenced in the MP terms.

 

Edited December 7, 2017 by Sassy Romano

[Neural Blankes]

6 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I think this statement is key to understanding the issue!

Agreed.  Unless Dakota clarifies it further, that to me says that you *can* have cheaper prices in world, but you can *not* use the marketplace listings in any manner that would communicate to shoppers that your prices are cheaper in world.

That leaves other avenues for doing that:  Word of mouth, blogs, events, classified listings in SL, etc. can all inform shoppers that your items are cheaper at your in world store, you just cannot use marketplace listings to communicate that information.

[Sassy Romano]

11 hours ago, Neural Blankes said:

Agreed.  Unless Dakota clarifies it further, that to me says that you *can* have cheaper prices in world, but you can *not* use the marketplace listings in any manner that would communicate to shoppers that your prices are cheaper in world.

Further clarity IS required because Dakota has since stated the only definition of the flagging option:-

 

14 hours ago, Dakota Linden said:

There aren't new terms. The terms are the same as they have always been.  If Linden Lab is advised that a Marketplace Merchant is selling the same items in world for a lower price than on the Marketplace, the issue will be addressed with the seller. 

It is even an option when reporting a product listing using the Flag option:

Spam or Disallowed Listing Practices - Inflated Listing Price

There are no other terms, no new terms, that's the only definition that has ever been written in the terms.  Offering the same price inworld or on other e-commerce sites than on MP is subject to flagging for the disallowed listing practice of inflated listing price.

Never has there been anything in the terms about unfairness to other merchants or it's ok if it's a sale but not advertised on MP.  NEVER.

If these are acceptable, i'm merely asking to see them in the terms and then it's clear for all.  Just document what's acceptable and what's not, be complete, clear, concise, transparent.  If it requires LL legal to re-write the terms then they should do so, if not, then ambiguity reigns and that's when merchants do their own thing and unfairness creeps in.

I have a product that has been de-listed because people think it's just too expensive.  That, only that reason.  LL staff have incorrectly de-listed it and i've had to file tickets more than once.  I've had an apology from Dakota over this item, I know full well what the flagging option is for and if LL staff don't even seem to be in agreement as to what it means, what chance do us mere merchants have when everyone seems to have their own take on it?

[Love Zhaoying]

14 hours ago, Neural Blankes said:

Agreed.  Unless Dakota clarifies it further, that to me says that you *can* have cheaper prices in world, but you can *not* use the marketplace listings in any manner that would communicate to shoppers that your prices are cheaper in world.

That leaves other avenues for doing that:  Word of mouth, blogs, events, classified listings in SL, etc. can all inform shoppers that your items are cheaper at your in world store, you just cannot use marketplace listings to communicate that information.

I'm sure that "Visit our inworld store!" with a link is fine. BUT if someone reports that your store prices are cheaper, then you are still in trouble.

[Pamela Galli]

 The ironic thing is that inworld sales are not more valuable than marketplace sales. Marketplace is where our products are mainly advertised, so sales there increase the visibility of our content. For me, marketplace sales are more valuable, even though I keep four regions for my demos.

The only reason I don’t make marketplace prices lower than inworld is because if there’s any discrepancy, customers who buy inworld notice and ask for a refund of the difference.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Pamela Galli

[MoonAngel Zsun]

I revisited and read the SECOND LIFE MARKETPLACE FEE AND LISTING POLICIES (https://marketplace.secondlife.com/listing_guidelines#abusive-behavior) as referenced by many here. As of today, it reads:

• inflating prices on the SL Marketplace, in comparison to other e-commerce sites,

Reference to "in-world" has been removed. How does this changed the following scenario:

1. Is charging an extra of 5% on MP allowed (with the objective to make sure the revenue remain the same in-world and on MP)?
2. Is a notice on MP description page indicating an extra 5% is charged compare to in-world acceptable (with the sole objective of informing potential customers the price difference to avoid rant and negative review if it is not informed)?

I would assume the direction of removing "in-world" by the LL legal team indicate the above practices no longer constitute an Anti-Competitive or Abusive Behavior.

I seek clarification and update from Dakota on this changes since your previous posting 7 months ago.

 

Edited July 29, 2018 by MoonAngel Zsun

[Elvina Ewing]

see here:

 

[MoonAngel Zsun]

Elvina, thanks for the link. This clear things up.

[Chic Aeon]

So it SEEMS like this means (should things not change again) that there could be a move to a two tier pricing system when the new Marketplace fee structure comes into being. That will be something interesting to watch for. Really great to have that official info. I missed it for sure. 

 

[Reid Parkin]

I have always had my plants cheaper inworld, for years and years. Nobody ever reported me, instead customers flock inworld to buy at cheaper prices, and always bulk sales instead of the one or two in shopping cart on MP. I always ignored that silly rule because it never made sense to me - before or after Dakota's explanation.

Now lately with the talk of raising fees, I just don't even bother listing new items on MP, and my customers are noticing - and I think this is leading to more inworld sales. My new items are being snapped up, and I think even more than if it was a new item on MP.

[Dakota Linden]

Greetings all!

The Inflated Listing Price restriction was put in place by Apotheus when he created SLExchange (renamed to Xstreetsl), to prevent users from abusing his marketplace by advertising their items on his site and then avoiding paying the commission fee by telling users that they can buy the items cheaper in world.  

After this thread was brought to the attention of the Marketplace Team, they worked as quickly as possible to address your concerns and update the Listing Guidelines, as noted in the post by Alexa, linked above. 

 

 

[Coffee Pancake]

Excellent and long overdue clarification. Anything that gets people shopping in world is a win in my book.

[Alyona Su]

3 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Excellent and long overdue clarification. Anything that gets people shopping in world is a win in my book.

Agreed. Now if more creators with gigantic virtual showrooms would use web-optimized 512x512 sized images for their vendors so they rez faster I'd start shopping in-world more often, too. 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Alyona Su

[Sandy Schnook]

1 hour ago, Alyona Su said:

Agreed. Now if more creators with gigantic virtual showrooms would use web-optimized 512x512 sized images for their vendors so they rez faster I'd start shopping in-world more often, too. 

Have been reading and taking that to heart.  My little store isn't all that full or even open yet, but I'm checking all my ads for size before I add more items.  As for shopping in world, I'd be thrilled if I didn't have to place anything on MP at all, but that's unrealistic.  For myself personally, I generally only use the MP if what I want isn't at an in-world store.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Sandy Schnook
Spelling

[Coffee Pancake]

The SLM is a great place to showcase your stores items and offers a lot of convenience , but being able to see the item in world is just more fun.

I would like to see the ability to link a special inworld object to a store or SLM listing. This object provides the SLURL to see that store or specific listing in world. (with object links overriding the store link).

If the object is moved, the link updates. If the object is removed .. the link is removed. Teleports to these SLURLS override the parcels teleport routing controls.

Exactly how shop owners set this up would be up to them keeping in mind it's useless to have visitors rezzing up inside vendors.

Such SLM linking prims once placed should be invisible to other residents, not seen, not rendered, not physical, not part of the interest list, unlinkable and may not contain scripts or inventory etc..

Creating these objects can only be done by the same account as the store they link to. You get one object for the store and one for each marketplace listing. No more. No less.

They cost 0Li and when viewed by their owner are full bright neon pink.

[Neural Blankes]

Very happy to see this has been changed. 

[Rya Nitely]

This thread is worth re-reading. It's a good example of how often people will oppose and debate an issue when someone doesn't like a rule or fee change etc., or when it goes against the system/ status quo. These people will present  no real argument. Most will simply say 'if you don't like it then leave, those are the rules, like it or lump it', or point you to the rule again. Because so many just can't or won't think for themselves - blind faith. It just recalls for me those times I have argued here on issues that were important to me.

Just because it is so doesn't mean it has to be, or that it makes sense.

EntityOx was right.

Also, it's good to know we have a voice here and we should continue to use it, because LL are listening.

Even when you have to put up with strong opposition and even rudeness, have your say.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Rya Nitely

[Alyona Su]

9 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

The SLM is a great place to showcase your stores items and offers a lot of convenience , but being able to see the item in world is just more fun.

4

THIS.

I use MP for window-shopping. If it's a worn item I grab demos. If it's a rezzable then I absolutely will go in world to see it or demo. If no demo and no in-world location then no sale. If "demo available in world" then I ponder whether it's worth going to get it. If I do and I land at the front door and have to hunt for it I leave immediately more often than not. If it is taking more than 30 seconds to rez a bazillion vendor pictures I'm outa there, hopefully, faster than when I arrived.

Obviously, that's just me. I simply don't have the patience (when on a hunt) for the crazy badly-created textures to all rezz so I can spend far too much time looking for just one of them. That's plainly stupid.

As for already being somewhere and a 'shop' is already rezzed then I may go in to browse a bit for sure. But something in there has to capture my interest from the outside.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Alyona Su

[Pamela Galli]

4 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

If no demo and no in-world location then no sale.

This policy would solve 99% of issues with marketplace purchases reported here. 

But then that would mean that buyers had to take responsibility. 

[Pamela Galli]

22 hours ago, Dakota Linden said:

Greetings all!

The Inflated Listing Price restriction was put in place by Apotheus when he created SLExchange (renamed to Xstreetsl), to prevent users from abusing his marketplace by advertising their items on his site and then avoiding paying the commission fee by telling users that they can buy the items cheaper in world.  

After this thread was brought to the attention of the Marketplace Team, they worked as quickly as possible to address your concerns and update the Listing Guidelines, as noted in the post by Alexa, linked above. 

 

 

Some years ago Pink told us that 5% difference was okay. 

[Madison Heartsong]

6 hours ago, Pamela Galli said:

Some years ago Pink told us that 5% difference was okay. 

I think that's what should be the rule.  Apparently the rule still is that in-world can't be cheaper, but just that many get around it, or am I reading something wrong?  I think that it's backwards if the MP ad cannot state the in-world discount, though I think there should be a limit to the in-world discount, probably the 5%.  Then I'd have a rule that if there is a cost difference between the MP and in-world, the ad must say so.  But two reasons if I were a merchant I might want to offer the 5% in world discount, but actually should have to disclose it if I did:

1) There is a 5% MP commission.  By default that is paid by the merchant, and that should be the default.  The merchant should, however, be able to pass that along to me, a convenience fee for buying on MP,  if the merchant chooses-- but should have to say so.  Then I can choose to pay it and buy on MP, buy in world instead, or, if I were offended (which I wouldn't be but I'm sure someone might be), not buy the product.  It would have to be pretty expensive for me to go in world to save 5% if I didn't want to buy it in-world otherwise.  A L$500 would be at least L$475 in world, so to save $L25 I'm not going there unless I had some other reason to want to.  A L$5,000 item to save $L250, then I likely would go in world to save that.

2) I think if I were a merchant I'd value in-store business more than MP business even if there were no MP commission, just given that someone in world is more likely to find something else to buy at my store.  That's a discount incentive.

Definitely, there has to be a limit or people would use MP at super-high prices to show their stuff off and then one would have to come into the store to buy it for a price that wasn't outrageous; but 5% is fair for that.

[Chase01]

8 hours ago, Madison531 said:

Definitely, there has to be a limit or people would use MP at super-high prices to show their stuff off and then one would have to come into the store to buy it for a price that wasn't outrageous; but 5% is fair for that.

That wouldn't work very well even if it was permissible. A lot of users will filter by price and if the list price is artificially inflated; then there is a good chance the listing might get overlooked entirely. It just wouldn't make any sense to do it that way.

9 hours ago, Madison531 said:

2) I think if I were a merchant I'd value in-store business more than MP business even if there were no MP commission, just given that someone in world is more likely to find something else to buy at my store.  That's a discount incentive.

Your MP store should have your entire collection. If it does, then why would you prefer I go to your mainstore? I can more quickly and efficiently scan the items you sell on the MP and I can just as easily make additional purchases from there as well.

I am not saying there isn't value in having an in world location, but it isn't a necessity for many business types. Having a presence on the MP is however almost mandatory IMO.