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Does anyone here in Second Life still uses the classic avatar even after 4 years or more?

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4 hours ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

More drama on the mesh front ...

Catwa filing a DMCA claim against Akeruka, saying that the UV map was ripped.

Because of the way meshes are UV mapped, you cannot "rip" a UV map unless Mesh B has exactly the same number of verts and tris as Mesh A, in exactly the same order, in other words, if Mesh B is an actual copy of Mesh A.

Now if one is filing a DMCA against a rival claiming they STOLE a copy of your mesh, reshaped it and claimed it's their own, claiming the UV map is stolen is technically absurd. But DMCA court cases would be heard by technically clueless Judges and Juries, so winning would be down to the amount of 'spin' your lawyer can put on it.

Filing against a rival for "stealing your UV map" sounds like the sort of fraudulent claim designed to exploit the take-down loophole in the DMCA legislation, that many people complained about when the law was brought in.

Get your rivals products automatically pulled and grab their market share then say "oops sorry, mistaken identity, we do not plan to proceed..."

*sigh*

Why does this remind me of the "wowmeh" witchhunt...
 

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... aaaand the original Catwa post is gone. Quelle surprise.
Guess it didn't trigger the expected kind of replies she would have loved to read, as several replies were sceptical at the very least, or flat-out telling that the claim was absurd.

KaoZ's alias Akeruka's post showing both maps is still up, though.

I would still find it greatly amusing if LL was to chime in and say, "Both maps are based on our work, so goodbye, farewell and amen to any claim.". Of course they wouldn't, but the idea is wickedly funny.

Anyway, that helped me saving L$ 5,000, was seriously considering to try a Catwa head. ^_^

EDIT #1: ... forgot to mention that there was a subtle hint in group chat: the same method (except for the public drama) has already been brought up against Ga.eg and they somehow adjusted their map to comply with Catwa's claims ... more I do not know. Yet.

EDIT #2: OK, that was a quick one...

Quote

Dear customers,

these last days, Catwa Clip has threaten to sue us on the second UV feature we had added in our Rick Bento Mesh Head, arguing we copied the Catwa mesh Head UV.
This is wrong and we copied nothing. Our UV are not the same as the Catwa one at all.
However, we do not want to go for a long and fastidious lawsuit now and we accepted to remove our second UV from our Rick Bento Mesh Head.
So, we will update and remove this function from Rick rapidly and we wanted to inform you.
We are very sorry for this inconvenience.
Even if we accepted this removal, we consider this as pure intimidation and we let you make your own opinion.

If you want to compare here are our second UVs 

Notecard to the Ga.eg group.

Edited by Lillith Hapmouche
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27 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

... aaaand the original Catwa post is gone. Quelle surprise.
Guess it didn't trigger the expected kind of replies she would have loved to read, as several replies were sceptical at the very least, or flat-out telling that the claim was absurd.

KaoZ's alias Akeruka's post showing both maps is still up, though.

I would still find it greatly amusing if LL was to chime in and say, "Both maps are based on our work, so goodbye, farewell and amen to any claim.". Of course they wouldn't, but the idea is wickedly funny.

Anyway, that helped me saving L$ 5,000, was seriously considering to try a Catwa head. ^_^

EDIT #1: ... forgot to mention that there was a subtle hint in group chat: the same method (except for the public drama) has already been brought up against Ga.eg and they somehow adjusted their map to comply with Catwa's claims ... more I do not know. Yet.

EDIT #2: OK, that was a quick one...

Notecard to the Ga.eg group.

Apparently Catwa has had a chat with their lawyers. I suspect they got some education about what "copyright" covers and doesn't, and possibly what the concept of "defamation" covers and doesn't. AAANNDDD they took down their initial hot 'n' juicy posts.

As far as I can tell UV's aren't copyrightable at all. Copyright covers original expression and specifically doesn't cover methods, etc. The United States copyright office says flat out that format and layout isn't copyrightable, for instance, and that's all a UV map is.

https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ33.pdf

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As much as I'm interested in seeing where this goes... can we come back on topic? My fear is it will end up in name calling on designers and Lindens closing this thread otherwise ...

Edited by Fionalein
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Personally i've smoothed my standar shape and Head on Blender and rigged it with the bento skeleton, it's not real fully mesh body, but the quality is better, my fingers moves and the quality suits me just fine. at least with it i can put any alpha texture i want and make any mesh clothing fit.  ?

It's cool to be good looking in SL, but what makes SL better is the quality of your soul !

ok it's cliché, but it's definitely true ! come on (X

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On 6/29/2018 at 6:37 AM, Zeta Vandyke said:

Since this topic originates from 2016, normally its not relevant anymore. In this case though, I am very curious about the people who in 2016 said "no mesh for me" are still without mesh now in 2018 or maybe have changed their opinion?

Back in 2016, and on this thread, I stated that I would not go with a mesh body, and was perfectly happy with my legacy avatar.  In the two years since, I have changed to the Aesthetic male mesh avatar, got tired of that (even though I spent thousands on clothes for it), and finally went with the Signature Gianni body and the Catwa Daniel head.  I have tried several skins and once I found Birth, that's where I've stayed.  So yes, I have moved into the mesh avatar, and I'm very happy with how I look now!  I've spent a lot of money to get my avatar right, but it's very satisfying once you do!  I'm really looking forward to the Bakes On Mesh system going live, though I'm not sure how system clothes are going to look on my Gianni body.  If it works likes what I'm seeing posted around, wearing some of my old system clothes is going to be fun!  :)

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41 minutes ago, Marcus Hancroft said:

I'm really looking forward to the Bakes On Mesh system going live, though I'm not sure how system clothes are going to look on my Gianni body.

Think of BOM as appliers.  Only you are not limited by (typical) three layers and you won't have to worry about stacking alphas.  Basically anything you would consider wearing as an applier now will become baked on.  This combines all the different layers into a single texture that is then applied to the mesh.  So skin, tattoos, scars, shear undershirt, heck even some extra shading or stains can be applied on top of all this t give more depth and realism.  All baked on as one single layer. 

No more matryoshka doll bodies.  It should also be obvious how much this will help with draw weight and speed up rendering times.
But that's beside the point.  Your mesh clothes will still be your best looking pieces and what you want to wear on top.  Only with BOM, all of those system pieces become appliers again.

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3 hours ago, Rhonda Huntress said:

No more matryoshka doll bodies.  It should also be obvious how much this will help with draw weight and speed up rendering times.
But that's beside the point.  Your mesh clothes will still be your best looking pieces and what you want to wear on top.  Only with BOM, all of those system pieces become appliers again.

Believe me, folks will just stack apliers on top of their BOMs... no end of onions, just more stuff at once.

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9 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Believe me, folks will just stack apliers on top of their BOMs... no end of onions, just more stuff at once.

The lack of materials for BOM (during first stage of its release at least) will surely help with that. I personally only wear appliers for some materials enabled latex things and I really like the difference in look between underwear and clothing layers they provide. So at this stage I don't see a single point for myself to "upgrade" to BOM version of the body whenever it'll get released. Lower draw weight and it being easier for PCs is a good thing, of course, but I'm not downgrading features wise for that, otherwise can downgrade right to the classic avi without hair, clothes, ao etc, those are the easiest for servers and computers to handle.

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1 minute ago, steeljane42 said:

The lack of materials for BOM (during first stage of its release at least) will surely help with that. I personally only wear appliers for some materials enabled latex things and I really like the difference in look between underwear and clothing layers they provide. So at this stage I don't see a single point for myself to "upgrade" to BOM version of the body whenever it'll get released. Lower draw weight and it being easier for PCs is a good thing, of course, but I'm not downgrading features wise for that, otherwise can downgrade right to the classic avi without hair, clothes, ao etc, those are the easiest for servers and computers to handle.

yeah the 2.5 dimensional look of the elevated clothing layer also helps in the 3D illusion... people will want to keep that as well (just imagine your applier gloves now sprouting mesh fingernails again LOL)

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55 minutes ago, steeljane42 said:

So at this stage I don't see a single point for myself to "upgrade" to BOM version of the body whenever it'll get released.

You have never wanted to wear stockings over your tattoos?

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30 minutes ago, Rhonda Huntress said:

You have never wanted to wear stockings over your tattoos?

I don't wear any kinds of tattoos, so... nope. I can see why some people might want it, though, I've seen how often it glitches because of the alpha blending. I suppose for people who would want to wear both stockings+tattoo combo and also don't want to lose materials/layers, they can just keep the old body and get the updated one and swap between them depending on an outfit.

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47 minutes ago, Rhonda Huntress said:

You have never wanted to wear stockings over your tattoos?

You don't have semitransparent mesh stockings :o ?

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To the original question (OP), avis are like the changing tech similar to computers, media players, etc.

People bought a ton of VHS tapes for their VHS player, then the DVD was introduced. Some will not go for DVD and dispose their hard earned cash investments in VHS.

People still keep their VHS, but more transition to DVD only because they no longer make films on VHS.

Unless SL creators quit doing classic avi fashion and accessories, no reason for everyone ot transition over.

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I have an Eve slim mesh body, had it already maybe 3 or 4 years, it's nice, but i rather use the old system or classic avi or how it's called. I'm a bit tired of searching and shopping clothes and skins etc. for the mesh body and i kind of dislike the fact that i can't wear what ever i want on mesh body. I needed to take a break form the mesh heads also. Too much fuss with them now for me.

Maybe later at some point will dig in deeper with mesh stuffs.

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On 18.7.2018 at 7:29 PM, JKimikoL said:

Unless SL creators quit doing classic avi fashion and accessories, no reason for everyone ot transition over.

Many did long ago...

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I'm not too old but I still use classic avi and I don't have the intention to change. Mesh don't offer me nothing what I would need. 

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i was classic avi  and was wearing 2-3 outfits sometimes, never were mesh hater when was classic and i don t hate classic avi since i m mesh))

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On 6/29/2018 at 2:30 PM, ChinRey said:

I've become far more sceptical to mesh avatars since Optimo and Beq discovered the fitmesh LoD bug but I still use mesh bodies for most of my alts most of the time. Not all of them need it, it depends a lot of what kind of look I'm going for.

When it comes to clothing, I try to put together outfits that look good and don't worry much whether the clothes are fitted mesh or applier ones. I do end up using far more applier clothing than fitted mesh in SL though. On the hypergrid applier clothing isn't an option since none of the legal mesh bodies there come with clothes layers.

I do not use mesh heads ever but that's mainly because they are butt ugly. I might change my mind if somebody came up with one that actually looked better than the system avatar.

I do not use fitted mesh hair and I can't imagine I ever will since I prefer to use something that at least has some resemblance to RL hair not only on pictures but in-world too.

I know how to resize and reposition jewelry and such so usually I see no point in having them as fitted mesh. There are some exceptions and I do use fitted mes shoes a lot, mainly because that's what you can find on the market today.

I try to avoid crowded places. Having my screen filled up with disjointed body parts and jellydoll shapes isn't an enjoyable experience so I rather stay home. It's hardly a big sacrifice. Dances used to be fun but that was long ago and I started to avoid big shopping events long before fitmesh arrived anyway. I still enjoy visiting beaches but they are never a problem. Even if the sim is filled to capacity, there are always some quiet spots where I can cam away from the ugliness and enjoy the scene. The only crowded place I really miss, is the weekly "Show and Tell" at Builders Brewery.

Sometimes I can't use fitted mesh at all. Some of my friends have even lower spec computers than me and it would be really rude of me to wear fitted mesh when I'm with them. With one of my friends there's no choice at all, her computer is hard enough pushed in SL it crashes the moment it has to deal with a mesh body.

And of course, I'm not stupid enough to wear a mesh body when I'm playing some kind of high speed action game. That's not a problem at all. It's not as if I have time to worry about how smooth my avatar's boobs are when I'm busy killing zombies or collecting crystals or zooming across sims at full throttle.

I am still not mesh!

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When mesh bodies first came out, I was not a believer.  In fact, when mesh CLOTHES first came out, I was skeptical.  I spent a lot of time and effort developing my shape and my face, and I didn't want to lose that in a sea of lookalikes.

But I did add mesh feet (SLink) when it became clear that I'd have to, in order to wear the pretty new shoes that were becoming more and more popular.

And then I added mesh hands...they look so much better than the stumpy classic avatar hands.  Plus, the fingernails never popped off.  I got Bento hands, almost as soon as they became available; I love having hand and finger animations.

I briefly tried Lolas Tangos mesh boobies, but only wore them once or twice.  They got rid of the blockiness of the classic body, but were unrealistic in some other ways.

More and more of the clothes I bought were mesh, and I switched my body over to the Standard Sizing mesh shape, tweaked to preserve my own face.

Finally, after much inner debate, I got a Maitreya mesh body.  Most of my outfits still don't use it, but that is gradually changing, because more and more clothes makers are no longer including alpha masks for the classic avatar.  An increasing number of creators aren't even including versions of the clothes themselves for the standard sizing bodies.

Now, I am debating about mesh heads.  I want facial animations!

Looking at the above, it reminds me of the story of how a simple woodcutter became the Tin Woodman...one piece at a time.  But in my case, the Wicked Witch is the Second Life Fashion Industry.

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It's a balance between your look and what you do! I would rather struggle with mesh to look good!! And some of it is a struggle!

Vanity. Yeah why not!!  9_9

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Sometimes I think the newer folks have it easier.  They didn't spend months/years making their classic head just perfect and then spend many more years looking at that face - thus wanting a mesh head that pretty much looks the same, just smoother.

 

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My preferred choice for BoM is that bodies is updated to one body with no layers, and one with 1 layer.

I see no need for a layer unless I want some a bit more that 2D, but still fitting. Like water droplets, body sheen, lingerie (so I can use my applier lingerie) xD

The no layer body will be my preferred body, unless I need some of the above.

For heads I really see no use for layers... but I see why some would keep on to their makeups. I think that the easy of BoM is going to win over those too. Imagine eyelash glitch, totally gone. No need to click to find an open slot. Just layer and layer.

But back to the OP question: I can't see how some can use totally no mesh and shop in new events. When was the last time someone released shoes for classic feet? And layer clothing, well, the Marketplace has lots of old content, layer clothes with sculpts and shoes for classic avatars. It is still the 5 sizes mesh to find in new events, once in a while there. Fewer and fewer offer it.

I would not manage without mesh feet. I imagine the totally no mesh avatars as someone not interested in new apparel. But that is not a bad thing. People do what they want, if their avatars go well without mesh feet, hands, bodies, heads, that is not something I think about.

 

 

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