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smangele

May be I have lost the plot.- Please help me.

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This is a genuine request for help and understanding. I entered an Adult Club with my boyfriend and within a few minutes I was told I could not dance with him because he was white and he must leave. The club apparently had a sign in the foyer banning non-black males.

I submitted a ticket to Linden Lab asking for clarification and whether this action by the club was contrary to the Linden Lab Terms of Service. I have not received a reply after submitting two tickets. My boyfriend and I were greatly offended and I ask if such an action by the club is considered to be Roleplay and that their action is not against the Terms of Service set down for us all to follow. I have been told that I should should not cause trouble and that it happens all over Second Life. If this is true then I would apologise and I would have to accept the situation if I were to continue in Second Life.

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the basic rule is that sim owners can set any rules they want which are not contrary to the terms of service. that does include requiring avatars to look/appear a certain way. It also includes requiring people to act in a certain way. Really the only choice is just to go somewhere else. The club owner is within TOS and thier rights as the owner to set the rules they have set.

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LLs will tell you that unfortunantly sims and clubs are privatly owned and can make up their own rules no matter how rediculous. There are tons and tons of clubs in sl to go to. 

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Well hmm, you could *try* claiming that the message that was sent to you formed "content" asking you to leave and was in breach of the TOS:-

(v) Post, display, or transmit Content that is obscene, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable;

Or you could just accept that it was possibly role play or that it's just a case that some people are knobs.  Finding somewhere else is easier.

 

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Maybe I should walk away and forgo the principals my parents taught me as I grew up. Racial Intolerance surely cannot be considered Roleplay however hard we try to justify it. Roleplay is surely something we submit too and participate in willingly. If all can be interpreted as Roleplay why are we presented with the T.O.S. at all.

Must I now accept the policies and principals of Apartheid South Africa?. We are a mixed race couple who have been racially insulted in a public place in Second Life. Our human rights were withdrawn when we were told we could not dance together in a public place.

I respect those that say that I should walk away and smile at this racial intolerance and that I must accept the fact that other people no doubt will receive the same insults that we did. Of course we will never go to the club again but I would like however a private response from Linden Lab saying that the actions by the owner of the club were not contrary to the Terms of Service, and that similiar racially segregated beaches would also be accptable under the present rules.

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You will also find that in real life you do not get to barge into the living rooms of people who do not share your "principals". 

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An interracial club, set up for interracial roleplay (black men/white women) has nothing to do with racial intolerance but is a club for people who are into that. It has to do with kinky sex and not with politics. Get over it, read the rules more careful in the future and then just don't enter if it does not fits you.

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smangele wrote:

Maybe I should walk away and forgo the principals my parents taught me as I grew up.

Yes, in this case you should. That venue owner pays money to the lab to run a club his way.

In all cases the owner of the land sets the rule. Asking someone to leave because they have pink hair is possible. One of my friends bans everyone over 6'.

It is arbitary, and in all cases you take it up with the venue owner, not the lab. 

You have one more option. Pay money to the lab as well and make a club that will let you dance with your white boyfriend.

 


smangele wrote:

I would like however a private response from Linden Lab saying that the actions by the owner of the club were not contrary to the Terms of Service, and that similiar racially segregated beaches would also be accptable under the present rules.

1. You won't get a response. The Lab don't come to the forums so will never read your post. Any tickets will be resolved silently. But it gets worse, too many complaints and you could be banned.

2. Such clubs are acceptable. And there are many of them. Heck, in this game we still own slaves. It is not uncommon to see some white woman dragging a black man about on a chain, by his collar.

 


smangele wrote:

Our human rights were withdrawn when we were told we could not dance together in a public place.

 

This is a game. Your avatar has no human rights. Your avatar is a bunch of pixels. Pixels don't have rights. 

You know, I'd ban you just for the hyperbolic drama you are trying to stir up.

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Most of your arguments are juvenile indeed and most of what you say is making the excuse that Second Life is just a game and you can do and behave as you will. We are just pixels without rights?.... or feelings?.... According to you we dont laugh and cry and give our hearts and soul to our partners......yes we are just pixels. And what exactly am I stirring up....I have been insulted by degraded person who happens to own a skybox club, hiding behind a pixel avatar just as you are with your inane opinions on what is right and wrong in Second Life...its the end of this discussion for me but I will always make my feelings known regardless of receiving threats from people like yourself in our virtual world. 

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Bryce Kidd wrote:

2. Such clubs are acceptable. And there are many of them. Heck, in this game
we still own slaves
. It is not uncommon to see some white woman dragging a black man about on a chain, by his collar.


I know this is an attempt to be a plain-speaking response in a thread with plenty of hyperbole already, but I can't help but feel that this sounds... more controversial than it needs to be. I agree with a lot of your post! Almost all of it - in spirit - but I'm picky on language.

In short: Second Life has no slaves.

There is no system that removes agency from agents, we all have the same, inviolatable rights bestowed upon us by the ToS. No-one is forced to work to survive, no avatar can systematically have their abilities removed or their "life" ended because they're not the "right kind of avatar".

Sure, people roleplay and pretend that they are slaves, and opinion/tastefulness of that is subjective (and off-topic). Pretending to be a slave, even taking the name 'slave' is not slavery. The pretend-slave can always (though, sometimes after a quick disabling of RLV) stand up, tear off their collar and demand that they are Spartacus and should be treated equally from that moment on - and the system of Second Life would agree. It is only by voluntarily opting into a power exchange relationship that anyone can appear to look like "a slave", and this is absolutely not the same as real slavery. It is flat-out, 100%, not possible for any user to "own" any other user. Slavery turns humans into property in the eyes of the law, it forcibly divides families, it is unjust and deadly - Second Life has none of that capability.

Consensual BDSM is not slavery. Roleplayed non-consensual activity (whether Gor, interracial or.. I dunno..  Joe Arpaio-style prison RP?) is not slavery. Abusing and exploiting people, perpetuating atmospheres of hatefulness and intolerance ARE against the CS, but still are not slavery.

My opinion is that claims like this are just as misleading as pretending that the Human Rights Commission is tuned into goings-on in Second Life. Slavery is largely condemned by Western culture as a bad thing and few 21st century humans with operating empathy would seek to recreate the atmosphere or environment of it being more widespread than slavery still is today.

Words matter. :)

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