What's This Thing That Will Change Our SL Forever?

[Codex Alpha]

I don't need bigger Linden Home, because look, I can fit an entire living room set (and a whole restaurant or club at scale) inside my Linden home.



The 'bedroom' in this house I can park 2 cars in. The 'living room' on the ground floor you can run a coffee shop with approximately 10 tables and chairs in, complete with a stage for open mics, and even room for a kitchen and bathrooms.

More LI is actually good, because it's hard enough to fill this space as is.

The answer is to make default scale furniture, textures and houses, and get people to zoom in on their cameras more (like WoW over the shoulder is closer) or even 1st person. A birds eye view is exaggerated (I dont even like it personally).

Of course, using less land is a threat to land ownership and rentals, but those of us who are not fooled into making Beanstalk-Giant sized avatars and Big Comfy Couches that are 10feet high know the truth.

[Yes]

This is where you have to get a laugh at the always happens immediate jump to negativity. 

[Nalytha]

After watching the big announcement, I'm a bit disappointed. I'm glad for the LI changes (insofar as they don't hurt anyone, which remains to be seen). I just thought we were going to see something different than this. Maybe it's because it was basically leaked when the changes went out before the official announcement. I was really hoping to find out more about the mysterious build. 

[Devriv]

Rey, below is the link to Designing Worlds's interview with Patch Linden.  At 07:50 he actually addresses the LOD issue

https://vimeo.com/189520045

[Pamela Galli]

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ChinRey wrote:

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Pamela Galli wrote:

 From what Patch said to Inara, I get the impression that some new configuration of software and hardware enables more land impact compared to the lag.

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New hardware? You mean they are going to give us all new computers? This is client side lag after all, the servers shouldn't have any problems handling a bit of extra download weight.

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Pamela Galli wrote:

I assume they would not just arbitrarily add prim capacity without making sure they could handle it.

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Yes, LL has always been very careful to consider all possible consequences of the changes they make.

But seriously, I'm not

that

worried. Generally the geometry of rezzed objects contributes very little to the overall lag level, it's textures and avatars that really bring the craphics cards down. But I think that as considerate content creators we have to keep that in mind. No matter how we look at it, copmuting power will always be in short supply in a big, detailed virtual world and it'll always be the builders who can make the most out of the least who are the best.

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Now we have Patch's quote about hardware back:

 

 

“We’ve finally reached the point where we have the equilibrium between technology and software performance on our side,” Patch Linden, Senior Director of Product Operations at Linden Lab informed me, as we sat down to discuss this and other aspects of Second Life. “The hardware we use to run the simulators is in a really good place right now, and will continue to be. Of course, as time goes on, things will continue to get better in that department. And the simulators are running so efficiently now, with all of the back-end work that we’ve done with them over the past several years that we can now do things like this.”

[Safra Nitely]

Congratulations on Lindens raising prim limits, that is awesome, thin of the creative potential that will give to us all to build bigger more beutifull sims, I look forwards to the oppertunitys it opens: HOWEVER, yes thier is an however. This is my penny wrth. and i know some may agree or disagree. but plese if you dont agree, you dont have to abuse, accept its one person opinion, who has payed for a full region in SL for over 6 years.

NOW THEN: the numbers i have hurd are:

Mainland 15000 to 22500

homesteads 3750 to 5000

Private estate 15K to 20K

Openspace 750 to 1000

They look Fair dont they, but acturly they are not, at least 1 of them needs rethinking for an dhonest reason.

 

PRIVATE ESTATES,   now thies people that own private estates have 2 options..... they can have either full teir, thats 3000 a monht and pay 1000$usd to set up the private region, so they spend BIG money, if they pay somthing like 1300, setup fee they get a GRANDFATHERD region. that only pays £195 a month - the EXACT SAME TIER as a mainland region.

so, lets say you pay your 13000$usd and you pay the same as most renter 195 a month, your going to get 2000 less prims.

This is not fair. and more importantly, where is the incentive in having your own private region now? when its 1300 to buy and cant do as much

 

however it gets a bit more stick for thoes who are paying the full fee like mee

i pay the epic 295 a month for my mainlad and im going to get 20K prinms the SAME as the 195'ers only becuse i missed the chance (thanks for telling me i gould grandfather good comms thier lindens, i got told 2 weeks after the offer closed) so for me, its cheaper to sell my land, close my private region, stop paying 295 a month, go buy and rent a mainland sim, pay $100 a monht less (that a huge 1,200$ a year differance) and get 2000 more prims Free.

 

isnt thier somthing epicly WRONg here for your high paying customers, the ones that are pushing the most cash into your company, that your rewarding our loyalty to your serveces with LESS PRIMS for a HIGHER PRICE than if we didnt invest in our own servers and things...... so the solution its simples isnt it:

 

 

If your paying a teair of 195$usd becuse your grnadfatherd your sims, they they shold get the 22,000 same as the linden land, that is ALSO 195$usd a monht.  would that not be FAIR to them

 

and If they are not granfartherd, if they decided not to pay, or they were like me and did not get the oppertunity, and were paying 30% more, then give us a reward, for being loyal and maybe even get others to continue the igher teir too, and make evem more profit thought common sence.

if were paying £295 a month, then give us 25000 prims,

 

look at the resoning,  you pay the say price as a mainland, 195, you get the same prins as a mainland. THAT WAS YOUR CHOICE, if you choise not to downgrade your prims, adn pay the full price, RESPECT that were investing in you ever month 30$ more3 cash than others are, and give us a bonus worth it, 3000 more prims. and you will fined more people like me will pay the 295 teir, becuse we really relly really do need the prims for our projects.

 

come look at my sim, devon dreams in devember, it will be open at ground level to all, and see that can be done with a good prim count. and imagin what could be done if we still did not have one had tyed behind the back.

 

in conclusion, LINDEN LABS. Yet again, you have missed the point of the people that own private servers on your grid, and the resons why they do it. you have given generously to your mainland with i know is hugely under populated, and yes its a great move to add more prims, it will reduce the prim per SQm make it more cost effective and maybe re-insire groth.  But your stable dedicated customers, the ones that hvae been plouing and plouing cash into your buisness year on year, month on month, you have yes again completly failed to regonise and give value to us, you give us a half baked offer, that when at first glace looks nice, Right up untill you do the maths, and realise yet again, were paying more, much much more, yet again, for less! 

 

Please consider this, and the points i have made, if youagree with me, and see wht i am saying then please, show your support. If you dont agree that is your right, you have freedome of speach, your welceom to discuss why not, but you dont have the right to be abusive, rude or ignorante: so please keep this polite, and lets change SL for the better and give the investers a reason for investing what we do!

 

Thank you

Safra Nitely (PS i am dyslexic, so dont shout about the spellings i know, im sorry!) yes your right i should have used a spellchecer but its midnight here and i got work in 6 hours! so you get the idea

 

 

[Kadah Coba]

A few extra prims is nice but I just found out about the buy down program and I'm pissed that I didn't hear about it till now. That was actually something, why did that only get a quiet blog post? I barely get any value out of SL anymore and had to recently rent out half my sim to keep justifying the costs.

[Nalytha]

I think you gave great feedback. I hope LL sees it and takes note. I have never purchased an estate, homestead, etc, so I can't make an informed opinion on the matter. So I defer to all of you land owners to give well thought out feedback like this. It's very interesting to read. 

As an outsider though, I must confess that I don't understand why the price of owning land is not reduced. More people could afford it and create the much needed content that is so desperately needed to make the world feel more lived in. It's sad to see so much land go to waste simply because costs are too high (I'm not saying that's the only reason for abandoned land).

I live in a great estate. I love it. I wish I didn't see so many empty parcels. I know it's partially due to the prices (which are not out of the norm I don't think for what I get but perhaps too high for some.) I pay about $16 a month just to rent. That's $16 that isn't going to content creators. And land barons/landlords could still profit from paying lower cash in their end, passing the savings on to the customers, and thus getting more customers. 

I can't wait till the prim allowance is extended so that I can benefit from it. I admit though, I haven't used my LI to the fullest even yet, but I still have a lot of work to do on my land and I fully expect to meet the limit. 

Also, I would love to see great LOD items even if they are a higher LI. It's great being able to see my lovely items close up, but I'd love for others to see them a little further away. I have some really cool trees that actually come in two versions (in the same pack. I didn't have to buy them twice). One is high LOD and the other is low which really gives some options to the owner to make a decision that works best for them. 

[Kadah Coba]

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Nalytha wrote:

As an outsider though, I must confess that I don't understand why the price of owning land is not reduced. More people could afford it and create the much needed content that is so desperately needed to make the world feel more lived in. It's sad to see so much land go to waste simply because costs are too high (I'm not saying that's the

only

reason for abandoned land).

---

I have one private estate right now. If they lowered the price of land, I would likely buy more land and try to recreate some of the long lost social spaces that used to exist so many years ago. But at $295 per month, plus $600 (which used to be $1000) setup fee, per region, its impossible to get close to breaking half way to even without shoving so much revenue generating junk (malls, renters, ect) in to a region, that it makes it too laggy for many users to desire being there.

Mainland might have been an option, but there is so little Adult mainland (the restrictions on Mature since Adult came in are too great). Getting a decent chuck in Zindra is extremely expensive and the lag caused by others in those regions is extreme even with the half currently for sale still being completely empty.

Thinking about it, the extra prims on Zindra are just only going to make the lag there worse....

[Qie Niangao]

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Kadah Coba wrote:

A few extra prims is nice but I just found out about the buy down program and I'm pissed that I didn't hear about it till now. That was actually something, why did that only get a quiet blog post? I barely get any value out of SL anymore and had to recently rent out half my sim to keep justifying the costs.

---

Honestly, that was the hottest discussion topic everywhere this whole year. If you didn't know about it and you didn't go out of your way to avoid it, you must be the most unlucky news consumer ever. I mean, everything including even the hike in Lindex exchange rates has been blamed on Estate owners exercising the grandfathering buy-down option. (That one in particular is probably nonsense, but it's been a prominent topic nonetheless.)

[Kadah Coba]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

---

Kadah Coba wrote:

A few extra prims is nice but I just found out about the buy down program and I'm pissed that I didn't hear about it till now. That was actually something, why did that only get a quiet blog post? I barely get any value out of SL anymore and had to recently rent out half my sim to keep justifying the costs.

---

Honestly, that was the hottest discussion topic everywhere this whole year. If you didn't know about it and you didn't go out of your way to

avoid

 it, you must be the most unlucky news consumer ever. I mean, everything

including even the hike in Lindex exchange rates

has been blamed on Estate owners exercising the grandfathering buy-down option. (That one in particular is probably nonsense, but it's been a prominent topic nonetheless.)

---

It wasn't advertised at all, at least not via email, and I don't have a habit of looking at the LL blog or SL fourm (Lithium is a pain) pretty much ever. I've been busy IRL, mostly with health issues, and haven't been on the SLU forums much at all this year. I didn't see any discussion of this in any in-world groups either, though with as much fail as those are, it means little.

[Safra Nitely]

Well in november i made a long post about prims and raising prim limits: I think lindesn have read it, and thought About it. lets review it almost 6 weeks on

the mainlad sims i am on is now 22,000 prims and i see properties going up all over mainland, regrotha nd regereration of areas long since abandond. when i spend a few hours walking the roads i see the changes already. some really beutifull builds going up.  that has been quite the success at getting people back into building and regenerating. But somthing more wonderfull

 

I talked about somthing for the land owners the people witht he priave full regions, and prims:

My commen at on the fact tath we were to get 20,000 prims compaird tot he mainlands 22,000 prims. and the fact some of were paying 295 not even the lower 195.

Well a few days ago it was bought to my attention about lindens NOD in this direction....

For $30 more a month you get an EXTRA 10K prims, for thoes paying the private region fees, now for the first time i have to say thier is acturly a real and hoest reward for owning private region.

 

Thank you for listneing to the community, thinking Fairly, consideration of the problems and comming to a sencable and realistic solution to give vvalue to your sim owner.  

 

And on that note... I wish you all a very happy chirstmas, and a wonderfull new year.  May you all have a great seasonal holiday and Thk you lindens for taking this idea and many others listening and creating a solution that is a true Gift at christmas.

 

 

[Alwin Alcott]

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Kadah Coba wrote:

It wasn't advertised at all, at least not via email, and I don't have a habit of looking at the LL blog or SL fourm (Lithium is a pain) pretty much ever. I've been busy IRL, mostly with health issues, and haven't been on the SLU forums much at all this year. I didn't see any discussion of this in any in-world groups either, though with as much fail as those are, it means little.

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So you dont look at the forums, you don't look at the blogs, you don't look at SLU, you been busy, you been ill, and you didn't look for any discussion or whatever....

but it's LL fault you didn't know... sure..

[Kadah Coba]

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Alwin Alcott wrote:

So you dont look at the forums, you don't look at the blogs, you don't look at SLU, you been busy, you been ill, and you didn't look for any discussion or whatever....

but it's LL fault you didn't know... sure..

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I was just venting for having missed it, doesn't matter now. lol

[Kadah Coba]

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Safra Nitely wrote:

 

I talked about somthing for the land owners the people witht he priave full regions, and prims:

My commen at on the fact tath we were to get 20,000 prims compaird tot he mainlands 22,000 prims. and the fact some of were paying 295 not even the lower 195.

Well a few days ago it was bought to my attention about lindens NOD in this direction....

For $30 more a month you get an EXTRA 10K prims, for thoes paying the private region fees, now for the first time i have to say thier is acturly a real and hoest reward for owning private region. 

---

Has it released for private regions yet? I haven't heard anything since the announcement nor noticed a difference on my sim.

\

[Parhelion Palou]

Estate regions went to 20,000 around a week and a half ago.

 

[Phil Deakins]

Although I don't own a private sim, about a week ago I received an email from LL about the $30/month for an extra 10,000 LI (pushing it up from 20,000 to 30,000 LI). So it's all up and running.

[Kadah Coba]

Nice to know it is finally out. I didn't get that email, nor did any of my random testing alts, but got other random SL related emails. Sounds about right.

Did it mention where to go to do the increase? There's nothing different on the account pages, guessing its a support ticket thing.

 

((Seriously Lithium, can I please have longer than one minute to type a post before you start throwing invalid auth ticket errors and such?))

[Qie Niangao]

The emails contained buttons that link to support.secondlife.com/create-case and the blog announcement makes more explicit what sort of case to create:

To request an upgrade, please

submit a case

through the support portal on the Second Life website under the case type Land & Region > Land Impact Change Request.

I'm not sure how they chose recipients for that email. Not all my alts got it -- including one that's Premium -- but some did. I've never owned my own Estate, if that made any difference (apparently not).

(Oh, and the Lithium thing, there's a thread about it. I doubt anybody has filed a jira, if you're motivated.)

[Phil Deakins]

As you suspected, the email wasn't sent to just those who own, or had owned, a private sim. The content made that clear. The first part was about the 30% increase in LI for all land, and ended with, "... and it's a great time to get your own space!", which is aimed at non-landowners. The second part was only about increasing a private region's LI to 30k. So the email covered everyone, regardless of whether or not they own, or have owned, land of any size. I suppose it could have been sent only to those who own, or have owned, land though, offering ex-land owners a temptation to get some again.

[Kadah Coba]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

I'm not sure how they chose recipients for that email. Not all my alts got it -- including one that's Premium -- but some did. I've never owned my own Estate, if that made any difference (apparently not).

---

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Phil Deakins wrote:

As you suspected, the email wasn't sent to just those who own, or had owned, a private sim. The content made that clear. The first part was about the 30% increase in LI for all land, and ended with, "

... and it's a great time to get your own space!

", which is aimed at non-landowners. The second part was only about increasing a private region's LI to 30k. So the email covered everyone, regardless of whether or not they own, or have owned, land of any size. I suppose it could have been sent only to those who own, or have owned, land though, offering ex-land owners a temptation to get some again.

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Knowing LL, it sounds about right that an email mainly for land owners wouldn't hit any Premium or estate owners. Their email consistency on everything has been really poor the last few years, more so than normal.

I've had my estate since 2011 and mainland since 2008 or 2009. I've gotten maybe 3 emails regarding land announcements that were also blogs over the last 7-8 years. The most often email announcement I do get is that one for their "50%" of premium deal which isn't a good deal and its always to my currently premium account.

I'll have to check with my renter (had to rent out half my region to keep justifying paying for it) to see if they would be interested in boosting it to 30k and splitting the increase.