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Prokofy Neva

What's This Thing That Will Change Our SL Forever?

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I doubt SL will move to consoles. First, it's a big technological project. Second, they would have to invest in advertising and physical products to make sure they recoup their costs. Third, even big MMOs are seeing that cross platform is not a good idea. Final Fantasy XIV has recently announced their future expansions will only be for PC. If one of the biggest game companies doesn't think cross platform is a good idea, I really doubt Second Life, who is ages behind the times, is going to go that route.

Would Sony or Xbox even allow a game like this? I feel it would be too much of a risk. I doubt they'd want to be associated with prostitutes and child play.

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I suppose the revolutionary news broke early and it had nothing to do with that mysterious new build but:

 



Qie Niangao wrote:

It seems as if you have special knowledge.

Oh no, I'm just trying to sound mysterious. :P

But really, you can figure out a lot simply by studying the map. (Am I the only one who noticed the workshop sim LDPW had just east of the new continent btw?)

The 24 1024 m2 houses in each of the residental sims for example, are clearly visible on the map. As for the double prim count, well, they can't possibly have used more than 3000 LI on the build itself (and even that's a bit too much) and that means about 12,000 available for the residents. Divide that by 24 and you're very close to double the normal 1024 prim quota. (Edit: that's with the old prim quota of course. With the new double prims per sim the prim allowance for those houses must be even higher)

You can also deduce quite a bit by knowing LDPW's modus operandi. It's even possible to make an educated guess which Moles are involved in this particular build. I'll be very surprised if we won't find Ancient Mole and Naughty Mole hevaily represented as creators and/or owners of the meshes there.


Qie Niangao wrote:

I've been trying to ignore
, where you said "
As to who it's for, well, this isn't something that's going to interest any Mainlanders or Islanders or Lindens and that leaves us with just one group of potential inhabitants."

I thnk that's fairly obvious. Generally, the people who still hold on on Mainland tend to be here because of Mainland. We're not interested in moving to some kind of isolated ghetto, not even if the houses are twice as big as the old Linden homes. The islanders generally want something bigger, more luxirious and probably with a much lighter color scheme and - above all - with far more privacy than they can hope for at a build like that. The Lindens themselves aren't looking for inworld housing, they don't even use the palces they have at Linden Village. And I think just about everybody who already own or rent land elsewhere in SL want far more freedom to choose their environment than they can possibly get in a place like that. The only existing large group of users I can think of who would be interested in moving to such a place, are the ones currently living in Linden Homes. I can't for my life imagine they're introducing some sort of "super premium" offer so I'm quite sure we're talking about increasing the land tier for regular premum members here. Question is: is that increase only for those who agree to live in thse new Linden Homes or does it also apply to those who choose to use their premium tier elsewhere? In either case it's going to have a huge impact on the land sales and rental market.

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Prokofy Neva wrote:

This is kind of a funny gift - if this is it -- because with mesh, we've already seen the trend toward way less prims or "land impact". I routinely see half or less prims on people's parcels nowadays than they actually rent because they are getting mesh houses that have much less prims than prim houses

And I had finally managed to use most of my prims at Coniston! Needed ten full sim sky paltforms to have room for them all.

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Prokofy Neva wrote:

So having double prims maybe not even be used, although it will be welcome to some.


*steals Prokofy's unwanted prims....*  :)

*smiles happy with triple prims*

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Not to be rude but, whenever I see Prok post like this, it's always the sky is falling, always looks at the glass half empty. I'd rather wait and see. Turns out that the change is a good thing, additional prims, which is nice for me as a merchant. I can add some more landscaping an put down a bit more complicated building for my gachas. 

I'd just downsized to lower my tier payment and take me down to the next lower level and was deciding what I needed to take up. That's no longer a problem.

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Let me translate that for you.

"Whenever I do something in my self-interest I think is eminently good and Prok criticizes it because it is not in his self-interest or the interests of other classes of people, I'll insult him and call him the problem."

It's amazing how people like you with such smugness about your merchant class and such hatred of critics and landlords don't realize that your actions that you think are emblematic of your freedom aren't in fact affecting others -- and badly.

You downsized and you thought, great, I got the best out of this deal, that's all that matters. You don't look beyond your nose.

But Linden Lab lost income, and that is cascading. That's either planned to force people off this product, or not planned and they are hurt once again. Linden Lab having less revenue from their core product -- land in Second Life, not Sansar -- is not a good thing. LL is banking they can wean themselves from land and sell experiences/content/whatever it is that Sansar represents (which is not land as we know it). But they have misjudged this and will find out the hard way.

This change means that hundreds of thousands of small-time landlords and some big ones have to downsize too, as their tenants are moving down or demanding their cost be cut in two for the same prims as they are now less. I see a wave of this all over my rentals just because I announced I will NOT charge for more prims when they are free for me. Not every landlord will do this!

More people are of the psychology "Oh, let me pay half as much for the same prims" than "Oh, let me enjoy this bonus and keep paying the same price." I am already seeing it after one day of this.

The problem with your smugness is that when you harm the world-creators and harm other classes of people, the world then can't go on existing to keep supplying you with customers for your content. It's a balance and an ecology but one that you don't care about.

People are not asked to be altruistic in an economy, they are free actors if the economy is free. Ours isn't, it's only partly-free. It's fine to do WTF you want in the finest SL tradition and tradition of free markets in general, truly it is. What isn't fine is to accuse those HARMED by this new development of being Chicken Littles and loudmouths and glass-half-empty liars.

Trust me, my sim with people moving down to smaller lots on other sims is as half empty as a half-empty glass can ever get. 

Well, um, you just explained why there is a down side to this : )

Perhaps you are unaware of what you just did.

Pamela is right to say this: "Am I the only one whose blood runs cold when I hear something like this? Because at best, LL gives with one hand and takes with the other. At best."

"Change is good for me as a merchant."

So why is that good for the entire country? It isn't, because not everyone is a merchant of content.  Some are merchants of land, and some are consumers.

If you are like many merchants in SL, you may be just nice enough to your customers to keep them buying from you, but never overly nice as to cut into your profits. And you'll have nothing but bad to say about land owners who you feel gouge others and are a shady lot, without differentiation, although your class of people is pristine and a blessing to sim-kind because they Make Content which is God and which the Lindens privelege above all.

Of course, as in a country, when you kill off those who aren't in Silicon Valley and make a lot of money with little overhead, and kill off customers, it's not long before you don't have a country or you have fascist candidates.

What did you do? You just DOWNSIZED in response to this windfall. Because you CAN. You can't argue with market behavior; it's based on self interest and that's fine.

But how does this affect our little pond, our controlled but unstable economy? Linden Lab just lost income. Or. People who rent you land just lost income and THEY have to downsize and spend less on tier or maintenance.

I don't mind if people act in self-interest. I do mind when they do it with viciousness, smugness and heedlessness about others they harm, and call those who care about themselves as a class -- just like you do -- or those they serve as a class -- only some of whom are your customers -- are Chicken Littles claiming the sky is falling.

I have tenants refunding because they can move to a smaller lot now with more prims for less money. I have people demanding I cut their land in half to pay less, leaving me with the problem of having to abandon land. That isn't the kind of problem one might immediately expect from a "windfall".

Sure, some people will stay in place and thank their blessings. Still others might even get MORE prims now that they cost half as much. But not everybody. Many people who earn six figures in real life in Silicon Valley or even five figures in call centers in Columbus, Ohio think that the solution to Second Life is not to drink one less latte, but to dump half their land in SL and pay $4.50 and not $9.00 US a month. And again, you can't argue with their logic. We as landlords are asked to drink one less latte to cover unrented land that people dump, but the customers aren't.

It's not wrong to point this out and to point out who sustains YOUR Second Life. The people who enable cheap Mainland rentals that frees up people's income to buy content from you. Hello. 

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Prok, for what it's worth, I actually had already downsized before this change. I'm on a fixed income and have some RL expenses I need to take care of. I'm a prim nazi and have been from the beginning. I'm constantly watching my prim count. At one point I owned about 2/3 of Minoa, the sim right next to where you have some of your property. I downsized from that to what I had and then downsized that 2 months ago. 

Don't presume to know me or my situation or assign thoughts and feelings that just aren't true.

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So far as the majority of residents are concerned, the inclination toward objects with lower land impact (LI) is not a “trend” but a necessity (You could speak of a trend in economy or thrift and proceed from there, but they too are rooted in necessity).  If SL residents had an unlimited amount of prims at their disposal, it’s doubtful that the LI of objects would even be considered, let alone remain the residents’ primary or secondary consideration when purchasing objects. 

If there is a trend, it is in my opinion one of building practice, one that makes low LI a requirement of every build, large or small, simple or complex (This shouldn’t be confused with a mesh builder’s obligation to optimize his or her builds).  Mesh houses may have “much less prims” than prim houses, but that alone hardly qualifies them as the “better” builds.  I’m not exaggerating in the least when I say that over 90% of the mesh objects I come across in SL have poor LODs.  I walk into stores and see empty rooms and nothing on the walls until I have cammed in.  Far from making SL “more beautiful”, mesh appears to have had the opposite effect!

I am hoping that the extra prims will be used, and welcomed by all, to allow the residents to acquire better mesh builds, and the builders to not make low LI a requirement that would compromise the integrity of the builds.

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Thanks Prok for the heads up.

I must confess, I didn't see this coming. I figured LL would eventually be forced to reduce prices, which is years overdue, but I never imagined they'd boost prim count as an alternative. While I am grateful for any crumbs LL is willing to spill on the floor, I remain baffled by their stubborn refusal to price SL for 2016 instead of 2006. I guess they need the short-term revenue for Sansar (yawn), so tossing us some prims is welcome.

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Devriv wrote:

I am hoping that the extra prims
will
be used, and
welcomed
by all, to allow the residents to acquire better mesh builds, and the builders to not make low LI a requirement that would compromise the integrity of the builds.

Yes, I hope so too but that's a double edged sword. There is a reason we have LoD after all, it's to keep the lag down. If the LoD butchers keep building (or uploading things they've found) the way they do and just crank up the LoD settings in the uploader, we're heading for lag Hell. I really, really hope that won't be the result.

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Since there will be an official announcement tomorrow, maybe there are things we just don't see yet. I can't imagine LL increased the prim limit knowing that it would cause more lag. Maybe they will be announcing some update that will combat lag better? I don't know. Just speculating. It just does seem perplexing to me to simply give a prim increase alone. 


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 From what Patch said to Inara, I get the impression that some new configuration of software and hardware enables more land impact compared to the lag. I assume they would not just arbitrarily add prim capacity without making sure they could handle it.

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Pamela Galli wrote:

 From what Patch said to Inara, I get the impression that some new configuration of software and hardware enables more land impact compared to the lag.

New hardware? You mean they are going to give us all new computers? This is client side lag after all, the servers shouldn't have any problems handling a bit of extra download weight.


Pamela Galli wrote:

I assume they would not just arbitrarily add prim capacity without making sure they could handle it.

Yes, LL has always been very careful to consider all possible consequences of the changes they make.

But seriously, I'm not that worried. Generally the geometry of rezzed objects contributes very little to the overall lag level, it's textures and avatars that really bring the craphics cards down. But I think that as considerate content creators we have to keep that in mind. No matter how we look at it, copmuting power will always be in short supply in a big, detailed virtual world and it'll always be the builders who can make the most out of the least who are the best.

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ChinRey wrote:


Pamela Galli wrote:

 From what Patch said to Inara, I get the impression that some new configuration of software and hardware enables more land impact compared to the lag.

New hardware? You mean they are going to give us all new computers?
This is client side lag after all, the servers shouldn't have any problems handling a bit of extra download weight.

Pamela Galli wrote:

I assume they would not just arbitrarily add prim capacity without making sure they could handle it.

Yes, LL has always been very careful to consider all possible consequences of the changes they make.

But seriously, I'm not
that
worried. Generally the geometry of rezzed objects contributes very little to the overall lag level, it's textures and avatars that really bring the craphics cards down. But I think that as considerate content creators we have to keep that in mind. No matter how we look at it, copmuting power will always be in short supply in a big, detailed virtual world and it'll always be the builders who can make the most out of the least who are the best.

I dont have his quote any more but I got the impression it was about some new configuration of soft and hardware, not new hardware. In any case, they can allegedly handle now what they could not before. We shall see.

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It's a godsend for me as I make landscaping items which really take a hit when enlarged. It's not that I use a gazillion triangles, plus I make custom LOD, it's just the way it works.

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Oh, everybody has a sad story in Second Life.

You didn't say you had this planned, you smugly announced it as a boon that you could now do because of this feature, as a slap to me, so don't try to backstep on that. 

You presumed to think that what is good for you is "good for the country" and it may not be. And you slapped at me although you don't know my sad stories which I don't invoke in SL arguments because that's lame.

Like I said, everybody has a sad story in SL. You aren't a precious snowflake.

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The Lindens always feel like no good deed goes unpunished, but every good deed of theirs punishes at least somebody so it needs research.

I now fully understand at least one big down side to this: the psychology of people who now say "Oh, let me spend 50% less for the same prims" which then slams my business and that of many other people.

Another down side might turn out to be that when the 6000 new prims now suddenly available are used on a very crowded sim that already had to be policed constantly to keep out lag, it might even regularly crash the sim, who knows. Or seriously degrade its performance.

This is something nerds never believe in and always tell you the problem is your aging computer. As someone who constantly has to visit Ma and Pa on the porch with their rocking chairs, 50 breedables, shotguns and bling laid on tables when they complain to me that "my land lags," I'm here to tell you that lack of user prudence and user crappy computers are part of it, but it's also other factors, like what sims your sim is sharing a server with and whether your sim has been reset in ages and so on. 

Lee Linden, God bless him, once proudly told me that he had maximum performance on a sim next to mine so he didn't know what I was complaining about on my sim which was on its knees, in part because of some oldbie with a script-heavy submarine they wouldn't put away.

Then I noticed there wasn't a single avatar on that sim and realized that for the Lindens, a sim performs its best when we are not there.

 

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Gee you are always the glass is half empty kind of person and get on your high horse so much I'm surprised that the beast can still stand.

Also, why are you so down on content creators?  It makes you sound jealous of them. You too can become a content creator if you choose to do so and make the big money if you have the talent. Talent and is what earns the most money in SL.  There are only a small group of people with that kind of talent.  Most creators don't make a lot, if any, money.  Just like RL, if you don't have the talent you aren't paid the big bucks. 

LL does not favor content creators as a general class, just a select few of their favorites, like only a select few land barons get favorable treatment.  LL plays favorites, that's well known.  However LL is a business not a charity and they have a right to treat certain people more favorably than others.  RL businesses do it all the time.

 

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

LL does not favor content creators as a general class, just a select few of their favorites, like only a select few land barons get favorable treatment.

That's the only bit I want to quote :)

You may know differently, but I don't believe that a select few land barons get favourable treatment. It's my opinion that anyone can get the same treatment from LL as those few land barons. All they have to do is buy plenty of sims, just like those land barons have done. Prok used to complain that some of them get special deals, and I always argued that those deals were effectively quantity discounts and were available to anyone who wants to buy such quantitities.

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