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Horacio Collins

SL can deal with Greifers this way and would save us all headaches

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About Greifers.. My friends on SL have been plagued by greifers it si causin gthem to lose money .. and SL can deal with them in short order .. by making it illegal to own griefingh tools and a;sp make it i;;ega; to design such tools.. Alos when someone list them tools on market place then they should remove such tools from being purchased.

Greifing is getting to be such a pain and it not only takes the fun out of the game vut aslso causes loss of revenue. This constant issue has to be dealt with for as one i am getting board with greifers and their ways .. I had a club one time was greifed so bad iI ended up shutting it down .. Not because SL did not do anything which they did and they were good about it but the lose of revenue was substancial. and it took SL time to recover my club. But after 3 times i decided it was better just to close it all together..

But SL can if they are concerned about their customer base . this greifing thing is  like someone going and robbing the bank in RL.. there has to be consiquences for those who do such vial things to nice people.  Banning from SL does not work cause then all the person has to do is go and create and create another accountand blocking ip addresses does not work either all the person has to do is go to another provider, But then when that person creates a new account  yes then use the info that they mustrt provide to provr who they are but check if they used it before when they opened up their account when they were banned for illegal greifing and just do not allow them onto sitte based on their info  i.e. license  from the state they live in compare that info and it it shows they were once on SL before and was banned because of such illegal activities then just deny them access to game ..   Griefing  is not fun it is wrong and it definitely needs to be dealt with .. and SL can do it .

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Griefing has been and always will be around.  Even if you make it "illegal" to own, use or create griefer tools, it's still going to exist.  It's like trying to stop software piracy, it's not going to happen.  It's like trying to plug security holes in software, someone always finds a way.

I've dealt with a lot of griefers in the last several years.  Here's what I've learned:

 

  • A vigilant owner will stop griefing in its tracks.
  • A scripted security system will do wonders against griefers.
  • Griefers eventually run out of avatars and move on.
  • Choosing your location wisely is also a factor.

 

Allow me to address each of these in more detail. 

An owner (or employee) who watches the goings on at their business or locale can usually stop griefers before they do any serious damage.  It simply requires watching avatars and reacting quickly.  This means you need someone there most hours of the day.

I've been using a scripted security system at my locations for years and have successfully fended off griefers.  The issue with banning avatars is that you can only ban 100 avatars at a time on the land ban list, so you need a scripted system to work with the land ban list efficiently.  This is accomplished via temporary bans and script-controlled ejection.  Done correctly, you don't need anything but a database of keys and ban status and a script to do the banning and receive owner commands.  I am able to shut down most griefers in seconds.  They tend to not bother coming back when the security system is on point.

No matter how determined a griefer is, they will eventually run out of avatars and get bored.  This is when they move on to an easier target.  Many try to return at a later date, but they are no match for a good security system.  And no, there isn't anything this robust on the market in SL, I had to write it.

Location is key.  The biggest advantage a griefer can have, after you've taken care of their objects on your land, is land around you that doesn't auto-return.  You still get the particles jumping into your land from all around you.  The only way to stop this is to own the region you're on, but if you're on mainland the best thing you can do is purchase land in a mostly abandoned region or at least surround yourself with abandoned land.  This eliminates any straggler objects from being an issue.  You don't have to wait on neighboring land owners to come online and clean their parcels.

It would be nice if LL cared more about griefers, but it's not a lost cause, you can do many things to win the fight.  You just have to apply yourself to get the desired result.

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First of all, its griefer, not Greifer.

Secondly, its not as easy as you may think to prevent people from griefing others. You say LL should make the creation and trading of certain items a violation of the ToS. But in reality, this is not possible to enforce. You would first struggle to find a definition of what a griefer tool is and what isn't. As soon as there would be a definition out there, people would find their way around it. But even if LL would come up with a fool proof definition and would be able to stop them from being sold on the marketplace, this wouldn't end the existance of such tools, because there is no way to monitor who is creating what.

Result: Griefing tools would still exist, no matter how the ToS changes.

And banning based on identity might only work for those, who have some sort of identification material linked to their account. If you create a new account now, there is little to nothing to truely identify who it is.

Well...and to the rest I can just say that yes, griefing is annoying but I wouldn't overdramatizes it either. Also clubs are an expensive hobby for the owner, not a goldmine...so thats at least no income lost.

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Horacio Collins wrote:

But SL can if they are concerned about their customer base .

On hearing how InSilico is going to close I think some days Linden Lab would be happy without customers.

And that's only part of the purge of estate owners I have seen this year and over the past month especially.

Quite frankly The Lab are *not* concerned about us.

 

Anyway, back on topic: Horatio, you seem to be falling into a common trap with griefers, you are reacting. That is what they want. Just set up thje security right and ban them when they appear. Never say anything, never react. Just wordlessly ban and they get bored.

But as soon as you react, as soon as you change things, make new rules, show you are upset they hit twice as hard.

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Syo Emerald wrote:

And banning based on identity might only work for those, who have some sort of identification material linked to their account. If you create a new account now, there is little to nothing to truely identify who it is.

You're right, you can't ban by identity, but a robust security system and an active owner (or security employee) will stop griefers quickly, no matter how many avatars they create.  If you're faster at banning than they are at making new avatars, it quickly becomes counter-producting for them to even try.  I speak from years of experience, it does work to be vigilant and arm your land with a good security system.  When you crush a griefer's desire to even try, you know you're doing something right.

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Griefers rely on lax owners to succeed.  It gives their objects time to duplicate and cause havoc.  It's a lot of work to sit and watch your land, but that's what has to be done to overcome griefers.  When you ban them quickly, they know you're on point and they can't get away with it.  Most move on.  Those that are persistent are up against a watchful eye and a ban hammer.  They can't win.

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Yingzi Xue wrote:


Syo Emerald wrote:

And banning based on identity might only work for those, who have some sort of identification material linked to their account. If you create a new account now, there is little to nothing to truely identify who it is.

You're right, you can't ban by identity, but a robust security system and an active owner (or security employee) will stop griefers quickly, no matter how many avatars they create.  If you're faster at banning than they are at making new avatars, it quickly becomes counter-producting for them to even try.  I speak from years of experience, it does work to be vigilant and arm your land with a good security system.  When you crush a griefer's desire to even try, you know you're doing something right.

Of course a good landowner can do a lot to decrease the harm and amount of griefers. I was refering to the OPs wish that LL should ban griefers from ever again entering Second Life by identifying who's behind the keyboard, which is easier said than done.

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In regard to losing money.  That can only happen in two ways. 

  1. They give permission to debit their account when an object is rezzed in world, probably by carelessly just clicking the allow access button without reading the notice carefully.  The object then just drains the account.  All scripts that can take money from an avatar can only function if this permission is asked and granted.
  2. They click on a link in world that takes them to a phishing site where the site obtains their password by either asking for it on an 'official' looking site or by using a keylogger.  The griefer can then log into their account while they are off line and send the money to his account.

Both ways are preventable when you pay attention.

 

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There's a simple thing the Lab could do but for ideological reasons they don't do it.

They could bar certain third-party rogue viewers and bar certain log-ons using proxy sites which would do a great deal to diminish the amount of griefing and theft of copyrighted creations in SL.

But because the Lindens are devotees of "open source" and some are even crypto-anarchists, as I've discovered over the years, they don't want to bar the use of proxies or anonymizers because this might stop, say, an Iranian dissident or a Egyptian freedom fighter or an American victim of domestic violence -- let's say -- from logging on to SL.

I'm skeptical that there are any log-ons from Iran, but I've had customers even from Uzbekistan and Egypt. They log on normally because they are in privileged classes -- they'd have to be, to have computers with high-end graphic cards and Internet that they can pay enormous sums for (in these countries checking Facebook can cost a day's wages).

That the overwhelming use case for these anonymous log-ons isn't about freedom or democracy but anarchic mayhem and crime doesn't deter their thinking on this. But this is one source of the problem.

They do hash-ban accounts that repeatedly make alts but I marvel at some of the very obvious alts that return again and again despite having their islands seized from them due to hacking, crashing and theft.

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Idea.

Anyone that gets banned from a parcel, have their particles get blocked from the parcel as well.  This is currently the last hold griefers have on a location, particle spam.  As it is now, I have to leave a sign with the parties to block, so particles from objects in neighboring parcels don't affect my patrons.

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If you can't own all the no-auto return land around you...

You can fill it.

I have often gone to every parcel around me and filled all the no-auto return places with simple 1 land impact prims all named something like "please turn on your return or turn off your open build perms" - and left them somewhere like 4000m in the sky.

Such prims almost never get returned to me... if they do, it is usually a year or so down the line... when somebody else bought the plot...

But it stops the problem.

 

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You Madlanders and your silly problems! *rolls eyes*

First of all, most of the griefers are... Old Madlanders... Still fighting the Parcel Wars of years gone by.

Real noobs don't know how to grief, or where to get griefer weapons.

When abc123griefernoob1998 resident logs into SL for the very first time, do you Madlanders *REALLY* believe that they...

1. Accidentally open the world map

2. Accidentally type in the region name and coordinates for the roof of an apparently abandoned skybox 4000 m up over an otherwise empty premium 512, that's been owned for the last 12 years by "Not A Griefer" (asshat.lastnamer)

3. Accidentally click the griefer weapon dispenser, that was accidentally rezzed on said skybox roof 12 years ago by asshat.lastnamer

4. Accidentally type the name of 12 year old "Also Not A Griefer" (scumbag.doublenamer) into search and accidentally look at his profile, where they accidentally click the group "Griefers R Us" and join, to collect their griefer toolkit from the group notices where the founder, scumbag.doublenamer accidentally reposts them every 14 days for the last 12 years

5. Accidentally open the map again and accidentally type in the region and coordinates for the only LL Protected Road Prim Car rezzing point for 10 regions in every direction

6. Accidentally rez the self replicating boxes of doom on said gas station forecourt, before accidentally TPing away to minimum safe distance.

Yeah that's right... Griefers are all 'not payment registered' noobs called resident, who have never been in SL before, you Madlander Lastnamers need to form a committee, with pitchforks and burning torches to deal with the problem, and maybe spam your neighbours parcels with junk prims, griefer style, to stop other griefers spamming the neighbours parcel with junk prims and set up Lag-Tech Griefer Orbs to autoban anyone called Resident who dares grief your land by looking at it...

 

Alternatively, the Power-Armoured Assault Commandos of the United Islands Peacekeeping Forces, could move in en-mass, and do a sweep and clear operation, Madland region by Madland region, herding you Madlanders into Evaluation and Resettlement Camps by the Coast of the Blake Sea, and then setting Thermonuclear Sim Demolition Charges on each region as it's cleared.

Then once you are all in the Camps, you can be possitively vetted for Madlander-Griefer tendancies, and the survivors will then be issued with emergency rations and a free hobo raft, and allowed to paddle, boat-people style for the private islands where you can beg for entry visas, while the last Madlands regions, with the unwanted persons who didn't pass the emigration checks, join the others as glow in the dark craters on the seabed ...

Problem solved!

 


 

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Do what smart sandbox owners have done.  Appoint deputies. They have the power to eject and ban avatars and remove objects.

They look after the place when you are not there.  It's simple and it works.

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On 6/15/2017 at 10:19 PM, Klytyna said:

Griefers are all 'not payment registered' noobs called resident, who have never been in SL before,

No, but many griefers create throw-away alt accounts with which to conduct their activities, in the hope that this will reduce the risk of their main account being suspended or banned.   I don't think automated restrictions on parcel access based on age are a good idea, but that's the thinking behind them.

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