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Phil Deakins

SL and its Learning Curve

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Yes, it can, and no doubt does, happen in a user's early times, but I doubt that it happens in the first few days - maybe not even in the first few weeks. And when it happens, the user is using SL quite happily and adequately, so I don;t see it as a part of what is meant when people write that 'SL has a steep learning curve'. My understanding of that phrase is that it means in order to use SL properly.

The other point is that nobody needs to know about replacement feet etc. to use SL to the full. Replacement feet and shoes to fit them, etc. merely cause SL to be more enjoyable for a person if that's what they want. That's all. They are not necessary for a full, active, and enjoyable SL experience, so they don't come into "SL has a steep learning curve".

 

Your argument, as ever, is full of vague terms that you only define in retrospect, if at all. 'Early times', 'use SL properly', and 'to the full' mean different things to different users. If a resident joins SL to dress up their avatar, then learning to wear shoes is part of 'using SL properly' and 'to the full'. 

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Vanilla, that was an interesting point about going from wilder imaginative things years ago to a more realistic world now. I'm going to go start a discussion about that, because there are all kinds of possible explanations, and I'm curious.

 

^^^\ Kate /^^^

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It is indeed a very interesting subject to let your brain chew on for a bit. I will surely follow that discussion! I see SL as the real world but faster, way, way faster. You can learn a lot from it, it tells you some things about human behavior and about where SL might end up. Maybe even where RL will end up... Very interesting :D

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Yes, it can, and no doubt does, happen in a user's early times, but I doubt that it happens in the first few days - maybe not even in the first few weeks. And when it happens, the user is using SL quite happily and adequately, so I don;t see it as a part of what is meant when people write that 'SL has a steep learning curve'. My understanding of that phrase is that it means in order to use SL properly.

The other point is that nobody needs to know about replacement feet etc. to use SL to the full. Replacement feet and shoes to fit them, etc. merely cause SL to be more enjoyable for a person if that's what they want. That's all. They are not necessary for a full, active, and enjoyable SL experience, so they don't come into "SL has a steep learning curve".

 

Phil, you miss the point. The point is that SL undoubtedly has a steep learnig curve regarding almost any challenge (except maybe walking - but even flying won´t work cause of these damned no fly zones all over the grid) for the newbie, not necessarily for people who are into it for quite a while.

It´s useless to question the steep learning curve, it might be more interesting to figure out how to deal with the problem.

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Dealing with this might be hard, balancing between not upsetting the regular,/long time residents and the newcomers. Maybe a "noob-modus" with lots of hints, coz lotssss it will be. Indeed like explaining no-fly restrictions

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Freya Mokusei wrote:

Look at
, made today by a super-enthusiastic person - how do
you
even begin to answer all these questions? Can you do it without using words only more advanced users would know - so, without sending the user out to do additional learning
just to accomplish a change of outfit
.

I dare you to try.
:)

I opened that post, Freya, but it doesn't really apply, because the author has been in SL at least a short while, and has got used to using it. She says, "[...] and this round has been much more successful" about her current SL experience. So there's no point in me trying to answer her questions, as she is already past the time that the 'steep learning curve' applies to when it's written in posts ;)

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:


Phil Deakins wrote:


I already addressed your points. Put simply, the examples you gave do not, imo, occur at the start of a new user's SL experience. Yes, they do occur, perhaps quite soon, but what new user wants to know about replacement feet, for instance? When they come across some good looking feet, or someone mentions replacement feet, then they may be interested to learn about them. By that time, they'll have already moved up the gentle slope and be using SL perfectly adequately.


Here's an experiment for you. Many people who start out with female avatars are very interested in dressing their avatars and it's one of the first things they'll experiment with. You don't seem too familiar with female clothing so you could be considered a newbie.

1) Put on one of the new default female avatars.

2) Go here:

It's a store that has a wide variety of free clothing items of comparatively high quality. It's the sort of place a new female avatar looking for clothes may end up at - actually it's very nice for what it is and they'd be
lucky
to be there.

3) Try various items and see what you need to do for the avatar to wear them - particularly the shoes - if the avatar even
can.

Report back to us with how simple or complicated the experience was.

You're either missing my point, Theresa, or ignoring it. I've said several times that, when the phrase 'SL has a steep learning curve' is written in posts, it means that the SL system is not easy to get to use adequately. At least that's how I understand it each time it is written in a post, and I'm certain that that is what is meant.

Yes, I'd be a near total newb if I tried to make a female avatar look great, so the experiment would be reasonably valid if it applied to the topic of this thread. But it doesn't.

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Kelli May wrote:


Phil Deakins wrote:

Yes, it can, and no doubt does, happen in a user's early times, but I doubt that it happens in the first few days - maybe not even in the first few weeks. And when it happens, the user is using SL quite happily and adequately, so I don;t see it as a part of what is meant when people write that 'SL has a steep learning curve'. My understanding of that phrase is that it means in order to use SL properly.

The other point is that nobody needs to know about replacement feet etc. to use SL to the full. Replacement feet and shoes to fit them, etc. merely cause SL to be more enjoyable for a person if that's what they want. That's all. They are not necessary for a full, active, and enjoyable SL experience, so they don't come into "SL has a steep learning curve".

 

Your argument, as ever, is full of vague terms that you only define in retrospect, if at all. 'Early times', 'use SL properly', and 'to the full' mean different things to different users.
 
If a resident joins SL to dress up their avatar, then learning to wear shoes is part of 'using SL properly' and 'to the full'. 

Alright. I'll to be very specific.

When a new user first arrives, they need to quickly learn how to use SL - things like movement, TPing, and communicating. When they've learned those things, they can use SL "properly". They don't need to learn anything else to happily use SL for hours on end, day after day. That learning takes place in the "early times", it's very quick and easy, and it is not a steep learning curve. If they want to make their avatar look great, then more learning is necessary, and it may well be that a female making herself look very good needs to understand a bit more than a male, but it isn't a part of that early time. It's belongs to the bit by bit learning curve - not steep.

By using SL "to the full", I mean knowing how to do those simple things, so that a person can fully use SL. When I wrote that phrase, I said that nothing more is necessary - and it isn't. With those simple, quick and easy to learn things, a person can go dancing, go to shows, make friends, etc. etc.; i.e. enjoy SL to the full. They are not excluded from anything. Ok, it's a vague term, but that's what I meant. I didn't mean 'the fullness of SL'. I doubt that anyone uses the fullness of SL, or even knows how to.

I hope that clears it up.

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Vivienne Schell wrote:


Phil Deakins wrote:

Yes, it can, and no doubt does, happen in a user's early times, but I doubt that it happens in the first few days - maybe not even in the first few weeks. And when it happens, the user is using SL quite happily and adequately, so I don;t see it as a part of what is meant when people write that 'SL has a steep learning curve'. My understanding of that phrase is that it means in order to use SL properly.

The other point is that nobody needs to know about replacement feet etc. to use SL to the full. Replacement feet and shoes to fit them, etc. merely cause SL to be more enjoyable for a person if that's what they want. That's all. They are not necessary for a full, active, and enjoyable SL experience, so they don't come into "SL has a steep learning curve".

 

Phil, you miss the point. The point is that SL undoubtedly has a steep learnig curve regarding almost any challenge (except maybe walking - but even flying won´t work cause of these damned no fly zones all over the grid) for the newbie, not necessarily for people who are into it for quite a while.

It´s useless to question the steep learning curve, it might be more interesting to figure out how to deal with the problem.

:) I don't think I miss the point at all, Vivienne, but I do accept that you see things differently to me.

In the "except maybe..." part you could, and imo should, have included, chatting and TPing. After that, we learn things bit by bit, as and when they come up. That's the way I see it, any way.

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Alright. I'll to be very specific.

When a new user first arrives, they need to quickly learn how to use SL - things like movement, TPing, and communicating. When they've learned those things, they can use SL "
properly
". They don't
need
to learn anything else to happily use SL for hours on end, day after day. That learning takes place in the "early times", it's very quick and easy, and it is not a steep learning curve. If they want to make their avatar look great, then more learning is necessary, and it may well be that a female making herself look very good needs to understand a bit more than a male, but it isn't a part of that early time. It's belongs to the bit by bit learning curve - not steep.

By using SL "
to the full
", I mean knowing how to do those simple things, so that a person can fully use SL. When I wrote that phrase, I said that nothing more is necessary - and it isn't. With those simple, quick and easy to learn things, a person can go dancing, go to shows, make friends, etc. etc.; i.e. enjoy SL to the full. They are not excluded from anything. Ok, it's a vague term, but that's what I meant. I didn't mean '
the fullness of SL
'. I doubt that anyone uses the fullness of SL, or even knows how to.

I hope that clears it up.

It does, and it makes a huge difference to the debate.

In those terms, SL doesn't have a particularly steep learning curve (I never found it especially steep, more a very long hill with occasional jagged boulders). I'd say, however, that most of the times I've seen someone write the phrase, it's not been in reference to teleports, chat and IM. It's been about opening boxes, getting hair to fit, mesh bodies and maybe even about shoes ;)

eta: I suppose what a lot of people mean when they use the phrase is "there's a lot of stuff to learn" which really isn't the same as "a steep learning curve" (unless you have to learn it all quickly). People are thinking how much they've learned over a year, or five, or ten and looking at the newbie who wants to be told it all in half an hour, then resorting to the cliche of "Well, it's a steep learning curve...".

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911 Steampunk wrote:

How do you use a rock to navigate?  Sorry if it seems off topic.

SL is easy to do but the social part is more complex.

Sailors do it all the time, especially before satellite navigation. "See that big rock shaped like a drunken penguin? Must be getting near the Island of Wossnames!" Then later we put lighthouses on them to make sure. The quotation, of course, refers to things that can be both dangerous and useful depending on how they are used.

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Phil Deakins wrote:


Kelli May wrote:


Phil Deakins wrote:

Yes, it can, and no doubt does, happen in a user's early times, but I doubt that it happens in the first few days - maybe not even in the first few weeks. And when it happens, the user is using SL quite happily and adequately, so I don;t see it as a part of what is meant when people write that 'SL has a steep learning curve'. My understanding of that phrase is that it means in order to use SL properly.

The other point is that nobody needs to know about replacement feet etc. to use SL to the full. Replacement feet and shoes to fit them, etc. merely cause SL to be more enjoyable for a person if that's what they want. That's all. They are not necessary for a full, active, and enjoyable SL experience, so they don't come into "SL has a steep learning curve".

 

Your argument, as ever, is full of vague terms that you only define in retrospect, if at all. 'Early times', 'use SL properly', and 'to the full' mean different things to different users.
 
If a resident joins SL to dress up their avatar, then learning to wear shoes is part of 'using SL properly' and 'to the full'. 

Alright. I'll to be very specific.

When a new user first arrives, they need to quickly learn how to use SL - things like movement, TPing, and communicating. When they've learned those things, they can use SL "
properly
".
They don't
need
to learn anything else to happily use SL for hours on end, day after day.
That learning takes place in the "early times", it's very quick and easy, and it is not a steep learning curve. If they want to make their avatar look great, then more learning is necessary, and it may well be that a female making herself look very good needs to understand a bit more than a male, but it isn't a part of that early time. It's belongs to the bit by bit learning curve - not steep.

By using SL "
to the full
", I mean knowing how to do those simple things, so that a person can fully use SL. When I wrote that phrase, I said that nothing more is necessary - and it isn't. With those simple, quick and easy to learn things, a person can go dancing, go to shows, make friends, etc. etc.; i.e. enjoy SL to the full. They are not excluded from anything. Ok, it's a vague term, but that's what I meant. I didn't mean '
the fullness of SL
'. I doubt that anyone uses the fullness of SL, or even knows how to.

I hope that clears it up.

Copernius called, Phil - the world does not revolve around you, and the virtual one doesn't either. You do not get to determine what someone else needs to be happy in Second Life. If someone finds it difficult to learn the things they feel they need to do to be happy in Second Life than that's exactly what they're feeling. The fact that you don't need to do those things has no bearing on that person..

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Phil Deakins wrote:


To make my thinking perfectly clear (again), my understanding, when people say that SL has a steep learning curve, is that getting to use SL perfectly adequately (i.e. in the beginning) is a steep learning curve. In other words not easy.

whats easy and whats not easy, and how not to measure this

is some LSL code here: https://community.secondlife.com/t5/LSL-Library/pseudo-random-arrangement-of-a-ordinal-set/td-p/2712606

what it does is given some M, S, R, I and a input D

where M is a magnitude, S is a mixing constant, R is a number of rounds, D is the ordinal arrangement of the set [0..M] and I is a starting index into the set D

then it produces a set A. Where A is an alternative arrangement of D

+

given we have the code to do this, and knowing M, S, R, I then how steep (easy) is the learning curve to be able to write some code to produce D from the input A ?

in my own case I can do this really easy. Can write the codes in about 5 minutes. The time to type out the answer

 

how not to measure

if from own pov I were to conclude that the learning curve for you to accomplish this task is easy (not steep), then my conclusion would be meaningless and pointless

 

if you were to say that this is not a simple task easily learned, and I were to say that yes it is bc it is and I dont accept your view that its not, then yanno

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Phil Deakins wrote:
Just like those rallies were something new to us.

just on this

on the stubborness level we are both pretty stubborn when there is a task to accomplish (:

where my advantage was is that it wasnt new to me. I had lots of experience in this task and with vehicles generally, prior to your entering the race. Way more than you ever had

is the same for people new to SL. Their learning curve (as a measure of easy for them) has lots to do with any previous experience than have had with 3D spaces, worlds, games, etc

they dont start from the same prior knowledge point and when we dont factor this in then any conclusions we might make about what is easy or not, is a bit pointless I think

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Kelli May wrote:


Phil Deakins wrote:

Alright. I'll to be very specific.

When a new user first arrives, they need to quickly learn how to use SL - things like movement, TPing, and communicating. When they've learned those things, they can use SL "
properly
". They don't
need
to learn anything else to happily use SL for hours on end, day after day. That learning takes place in the "early times", it's very quick and easy, and it is not a steep learning curve. If they want to make their avatar look great, then more learning is necessary, and it may well be that a female making herself look very good needs to understand a bit more than a male, but it isn't a part of that early time. It's belongs to the bit by bit learning curve - not steep.

By using SL "
to the full
", I mean knowing how to do those simple things, so that a person can fully use SL. When I wrote that phrase, I said that nothing more is necessary - and it isn't. With those simple, quick and easy to learn things, a person can go dancing, go to shows, make friends, etc. etc.; i.e. enjoy SL to the full. They are not excluded from anything. Ok, it's a vague term, but that's what I meant. I didn't mean '
the fullness of SL
'. I doubt that anyone uses the fullness of SL, or even knows how to.

I hope that clears it up.

It does, and it makes a huge difference to the debate.

In those terms, SL doesn't have a particularly steep learning curve (I never found it especially steep, more a very long hill with occasional jagged boulders). I'd say, however, that most of the times I've seen someone write the phrase, it's not been in reference to teleports, chat and IM. It's been about opening boxes, getting hair to fit, mesh bodies and maybe even about shoes
;)

eta: I suppose what a lot of people mean when they use the phrase is "there's a lot of stuff to learn" which really isn't the same as "a steep learning curve" (unless you have to learn it all quickly). People are thinking how much they've learned over a year, or five, or ten and looking at the newbie who wants to be told it all in half an hour, then resorting to the cliche of "Well, it's a steep learning curve...".

We are in agreement then :)

I particularly like the part, "more a very long hill with occasional jagged boulders". That describes the learning experience very well, imo.

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:


Phil Deakins wrote:


Kelli May wrote:


Phil Deakins wrote:

Yes, it can, and no doubt does, happen in a user's early times, but I doubt that it happens in the first few days - maybe not even in the first few weeks. And when it happens, the user is using SL quite happily and adequately, so I don;t see it as a part of what is meant when people write that 'SL has a steep learning curve'. My understanding of that phrase is that it means in order to use SL properly.

The other point is that nobody needs to know about replacement feet etc. to use SL to the full. Replacement feet and shoes to fit them, etc. merely cause SL to be more enjoyable for a person if that's what they want. That's all. They are not necessary for a full, active, and enjoyable SL experience, so they don't come into "SL has a steep learning curve".

 

Your argument, as ever, is full of vague terms that you only define in retrospect, if at all. 'Early times', 'use SL properly', and 'to the full' mean different things to different users.
 
If a resident joins SL to dress up their avatar, then learning to wear shoes is part of 'using SL properly' and 'to the full'. 

Alright. I'll to be very specific.

When a new user first arrives, they need to quickly learn how to use SL - things like movement, TPing, and communicating. When they've learned those things, they can use SL "
properly
".
They don't
need
to learn anything else to happily use SL for hours on end, day after day.
That learning takes place in the "early times", it's very quick and easy, and it is not a steep learning curve. If they want to make their avatar look great, then more learning is necessary, and it may well be that a female making herself look very good needs to understand a bit more than a male, but it isn't a part of that early time. It's belongs to the bit by bit learning curve - not steep.

By using SL "
to the full
", I mean knowing how to do those simple things, so that a person can fully use SL. When I wrote that phrase, I said that nothing more is necessary - and it isn't. With those simple, quick and easy to learn things, a person can go dancing, go to shows, make friends, etc. etc.; i.e. enjoy SL to the full. They are not excluded from anything. Ok, it's a vague term, but that's what I meant. I didn't mean '
the fullness of SL
'. I doubt that anyone uses the fullness of SL, or even knows how to.

I hope that clears it up.

Copernius called, Phil - the world does
not
revolve around you, and the virtual one doesn't either. You do not get to determine what someone else needs to be happy in Second Life. If someone finds it difficult to learn the things
they
feel they need to do to be happy in Second Life than that's exactly what they're feeling. The fact that
you
don't need to do those things has no bearing on that person..

Again, you are just arguing for the sake of arguing, and without any sense of reality. I can't grumble though. It's what is expected of you in this forum.

No, the world does not revolve around me (although my world does revolve around me, just as each individual's world revolves around each individual). And no, I don't decide what other people need to be happy in SL. The part of what I said that you are responding to like that is absolutely true though. If all there is in SL is movement, and communication, then all the users, who chose to stay, would be happy with it. Other things are not needed. Other things do enhance the experience, of course, but that's quite different. And, of course, as time passes, people choose which of those things they want to learn. For instance, I have no desire to learn how to dress a female avatar, or about replacement feet, hands and heads. At one time, I did desire to learn about the sex part, but that came after being happily in SL for a while, and was not part of an alleged 'steep learning curve'. It was part of a gentle learning slope with occasional boulders in it.

Now I expect you to point out that in fact there is more to SL than movement and communication and, to pre-empt that, I'll point out, yet again, that we learn the other things along a learning slope that isn't steep, as and when they crop up. To pinch Kelli's analogy, some of those things are like jagged boulderss in the slope, but the whole thing does not comprise a 'steep learning curve', imo, because the whole things is spread over significant time.

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I can accept that there are rare people who would find it difficult to learn the simple task of pressing the cursor keys to make the avatar move, typing on the keyboard to say something, and other equally simple tasks. For them, SL does have a steep, or difficult, learning curve. But we are not talking about extremes. We are talking about a generalisation. People in general would find those tasks to be very easy to learn. When they've learned them, they can make full of SL. After that, they learn other things bit by bit, as and when they crop up. It's a steady slope, and it's that simple.

 

ETA: There was once a time when I was helping someone to learn to use a product I sold. I was on voice, so having to type didn't get in the way. For 20 minutes I tried to get her to put the cursor over the object and left click it. Placing the cursor wasn't a problem, but, for the life of me, I couldn't get her to understand what 'left click' meant, and do it. At one point, she said, "You must think I'm really stupid". I didn't reply to that. We gave up trying after about 20 minutes of trying to get her to left click the thing. So there are people who would find the simple things quite difficult, but they are rare.

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Phil Deakins wrote:

 

ETA: There was once a time when I was helping someone to learn to use a product I sold. I was on voice, so having to type didn't get in the way. For 20 minutes I tried to get her to put the cursor over the object and left click it. Placing the cursor wasn't a problem, but, for the life of me, I couldn't get her to understand what 'left click' meant, and do it. At one point, she said, "
You must think I'm really stupid
". I didn't reply to that. We gave up trying after about 20 minutes of trying to get her to left click the thing. So there are people who would find the simple things quite difficult, but they are rare.

did you ask her if she was on a Mac ?

 

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Phil Deakins wrote:


Vivienne Schell wrote:


Phil Deakins wrote:

Yes, it can, and no doubt does, happen in a user's early times, but I doubt that it happens in the first few days - maybe not even in the first few weeks. And when it happens, the user is using SL quite happily and adequately, so I don;t see it as a part of what is meant when people write that 'SL has a steep learning curve'. My understanding of that phrase is that it means in order to use SL properly.

The other point is that nobody needs to know about replacement feet etc. to use SL to the full. Replacement feet and shoes to fit them, etc. merely cause SL to be more enjoyable for a person if that's what they want. That's all. They are not necessary for a full, active, and enjoyable SL experience, so they don't come into "SL has a steep learning curve".

 

Phil, you miss the point. The point is that SL undoubtedly has a steep learnig curve regarding almost any challenge (except maybe walking - but even flying won´t work cause of these damned no fly zones all over the grid) for the newbie, not necessarily for people who are into it for quite a while.

It´s useless to question the steep learning curve, it might be more interesting to figure out how to deal with the problem.

:)

I don't think I miss the point at all, Vivienne, but I do accept that you see things differently to me.

In the "
except maybe..."
part you could, and imo should, have included, chatting and TPing. After that, we learn things bit by bit, as and when they come up. That's the way I see it, any way.

Sure, Phil. i get that. But a newbie does not download the viewer, install it on the PC, complete the sign up process, select an avatar and logs in for the first time only for walking.and chatting. And if this newbie does so, then the newbie very most probaly will get stuck at welcome island, or tp (if the newbie manages to do that) to some place and stumble all over the place. And then logs off and never comes back.

If the newbie logs in out of a special interest of any kind, then the newbie will probably perform the same initial steps. But after that, the newbie will have to deal with search, inventory, viewer functionality, with settings, with lag, with other people and whatever it needs. Each and any of these steps is all but easy to manage, and then sum them up. Remember the average human max attention span, which is less long than that of a goldfish . That´s what I call a steep learning curve. And this steep learning curve certainly contributes to the fact that Second Life never really went mainstream and never will be adopted by mainstream.

It´s something for the curious and persistant people who are willing to overcome all the obstacles by investing a lot of time, effort and even money for getting something they cannot get elsewhere. But that´s not mainstream.

 

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It looks like we're going to have to settle on the fact that we see things differently, Vivienne.

I agree that new people don't usually sign up just for movement and chat. Some may have specific intentions in mind, some may sign up just to have a look at it, and some may sign up just for the social aspect - movement and chat. Nevertheless, in my view, movement (which includes TPing) and communication is all that is necessary to roam around in SL, see what goes, on, etc. etc., and, on the whole, learning movement and communication isn't difficult (not a steep learning curve) for almost everyone. After that, other things can be learned as they come up - such as how to find places, how to dance like everyone else in the club that they've found is doing, and so on. The learning may well be a bit hectic at the start but not enough to describe it as a steep learning curve, imo.

Of course, there are bound to be some who sign up specifically because they've heard, for instance, that they can create and sell things. For those who sign up with such specific intentions, SL does have a steep learning curve, but such people are few, and, as far as I know, are not the norm.

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New users commonly want to dress their avatar up immediately and start buying with the assumption that it's relatively simple - see shoes - like shoes, pay for shoes, wear shoes, whereas SLINK compatable shoes are everywhere and beat the pants off classic avatar feet or shoes that come with feet in them.  So in many cases users who are a few days old want these feet before they even know they exist because they already bought shoes for them having had no idea how complicated it was.  When they find out they need these add on feet to wear their add on shoes, many specifically comment about what a steep learning curve SL has. 

 

So the problem isn't that people can't identify how steep their learning curve but rather that you're wrong about how new users use SL.  Some wear the starter avatar for 7 years but many change it up within an hour of logging for the first time and for those kind of people, nice shoes are often high on their "must do right now" list.

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Phil Deakins wrote:

So there's no point in me trying to answer her questions


It's a thought experiment. :P

I write technical manuals every so often - one qualification for this asked me to "Describe the process of making a cup of tea to an alien."

The point being, how do you describe elements that require Tacit Knowledge to someone without the common frame of reference? What's a teabag, how do you describe a kettle to someone who's seen plenty of metal but never had to boil water.

That's the situation many people are in when they join Second Life. If you can't empathise with that missing knowledge, then you won't see the learning curve.

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Just to be clear on the one hand - it makes no sense to you that the things you consider the necessities are hard to learn and you can't fathom that someone has trouble pushing the arrow key or typing on their keyboard.  It's easy to agree with that position.

 

On the other hand - you're sure this is the set of things people mean when they say "SL has a steep learning curve", but if both these things are true then that means these people are smart enough to easily create an account, find the arrow keys, type on their keyboard but too stupid to realize how easy they found it.   I find that impossible to agree with; actually it's just plain ludicrous.

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