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Alcibides Zemenis

Feedback on the beta viewer and a word in favor of the Phoenix viewer.

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First feedback on the beta viewer, the one where you change avatars not clothes, good for casual visitors to SL but not anyone who enjoys shopping and dressing up their avatars. Had trouble finding anything and it seemed I had to take two steps to do anything I could do in Phoenix in one step, for example moving around. 

I want to make it clear that if I have to use the default viewer 2 or its ugly predecessors, like the one above, I will be leave SL. I think Phoenix (soon Firestorm) is the viewer of viewers and unless SL decision makers want to start an exodus they need to pay attention to this. A large majority, it seems to me, of experienced users, who invest and build in SL, use phoenix viewers.

I can appreciate efforts to make a viewer that is easy for newbies to use but cutting down options as long as advanced viewers remain available for the veterans and tech heads. I feel completely frustrated when I have to use viewer 2 on the occasions when tech issues that can only be straightened out by the official viewer. I am relieved when the issue is resolved and I can return "home" to Phoenix. 

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Pardon my ignorance but when, exactly, did LL say you couldn't continue to use Phoenix/Firestorm until the end of time? Seriously LL open sourced the viewer specifically so that third party viewers like Phoenix could exist.

Where did all this whining about how LL needs to make a viewer just like the TPV you already use or you'll leave come from?

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Are you aware of the possibility that you can switch from basic to advanced mode and get rid of the limited functionality in the latest viewer? Noone is forcing you to use something that is not yet  finished and was created for absolute newbies.

There's a choice, different viewers are out there, be it LL's official viewers (which I refuse to touch since they introduced web profiles and which use a terribly unusable, cluttered GUI) or one of the various third party viewers. My current viewer of choice since January has been the V2 codebased Firestorm viewer that combines the useability of the old V1.x based viewers GUIs with the amazing functions that the V2 code offers and whose developers are refusing to use web profiles as long as possible.

What's your choice?

Jeannie

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You simply gotta love this kind of posts. Especially with given example as someting as trivial as moving arround. Ever played FPS? Missing one hand or you have hook instead of fingers so you need mouse driven walk? Other hand is bussy with sometin else? (coffee, soda, beverage, sandwitch) I mean please. Explain to us all how movement is much simpler in oh-beloved-God-given Phoenix viewer.

Making clear that you will leave SL because of viewer (mind you that nobody actually forcing you or preventing you form using Phoenix viewer), means very little. Your oppinion on viewers is yours only. I think Phoenix have great features, but even I mostly build in SL I would rather go with V2 based because I really dont need stupid features such as "Oh mighty Phoenix show me who is looking at me and who is checking my attachemnts, so I can rant at them". I for example think that Kirstens S21 viewer blow the living hell out of Firestorm. However Im not preaching about viewers nor starting debate who has bigger... errr... viewer.

What exactly you are missing from latest beta when you switch to Advanced mode comparing to e.g. 2.5.2/2.6 ?

If this is random rant about how you hate v2 and love obsolete and laggy v1.2x derivates then this complete post is quite pointless...

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Wakizashi Yoshikawa wrote:

You simply gotta love this kind of posts. Especially with given example as someting as trivial as moving arround. Ever played FPS? Missing one hand or you have hook instead of fingers so you need mouse driven walk? Other hand is bussy with sometin else? (coffee, soda, beverage, sandwitch) I mean please. Explain to us all how movement is much simpler in oh-beloved-God-given Phoenix viewer.

Making clear that you will leave SL because of viewer (mind you that nobody actually forcing you or preventing you form using Phoenix viewer), means very little. Your oppinion on viewers is yours only. I think Phoenix have great features, but even I mostly build in SL I would rather go with V2 based because I really dont need stupid features such as "Oh mighty Phoenix show me who is looking at me and who is checking my attachemnts, so I can rant at them". I for example think that Kirstens S21 viewer blow the living hell out of Firestorm. However Im not preaching about viewers nor starting debate who has bigger... errr... viewer.

What exactly you are missing from latest beta when you switch to Advanced mode comparing to e.g. 2.5.2/2.6 ?

If this is random rant about how you hate v2 and love obsolete and laggy v1.2x derivates then this complete post is quite pointless...

I'd use Kirsten's S21 if it would not have the same cluttered unuseable GUI like LL V2, cause I get insanely high FPS in Kirsten's. But what's insanely high FPS when you can't use a viewer due to everything that is not stuffed into the sidebar is being cluttered all over the screen?

 

J.

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Jean Horten wrote:

 

I'd use Kirsten's S21 if it would not have the same cluttered unuseable GUI like LL V2, cause I get insanely high FPS in Kirsten's. But what's insanely high FPS when you can't use a viewer due to everything that is not stuffed into the sidebar is being cluttered all over the screen?

 

J.

 

I really dont think UI in v2 is cluttered and unusable... Last time I checked with, oh, dunno, PS CS5, It has floating dockable panels similar to v2, and i dont see users used to PS 4 whine about it as much as people do with V2 viewer. Hands down, for some features old v1.2x is better, but in my humble oppinion v2 have more slick and very politely stacked panels. Again, if you really wish, you can spread them all arround like in v1.2 you just have to change skin (if i recall, Kirstens is no longer shipped with bunch of skins, you need to get them separately).

Also, you have option to complete kill all windows and open them by clicking on quick lauch in Kirstens viewer. I really would trade "cluttered and unusable" UI on V2 for its features. For me, textures are loading much faster than on any v1.2 derivate, rendering engine is out of the box nicer, im getting better FPS and what not. Again, VERY subjective oppinion, just like yours and the one from OP.

What really is bad here is that lots of people never give v2 proper spin to be able to say that "its crap". Also, debating on UI is very delicate subject, as I have seen lots of professional designers who say that V2 interface IS in fact more slick, modern and cleaner. Again, subjective oppinion. But will I quit SL if LL decide to change viewer?

EDIT

Actually, all you need to check one option in S21 prefs, under Viewer -> Sidebar panels opens as Floaters and you can have old v1.2x "uncluttered" looks ;)

ui.jpg

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The most annoying thing about the LLV2  and Kirsten's viewers for me is the cluttered communication, toasts bottom right, flashng icons way down bottom bottom right, the local  chatbar bottom left, chat history split from chat bar, IMs and local chat in two windows. Am I supposed to move my eyes all over the scrren to see if someone wants to communicate? That's pure rubbish.

I still prefer Firestorm, there I do have all communication stuff in one single floater, which is way more convenient:

 

original.jpeg

Jeannie

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You are aware that 90% of IM's are working like that? Flashing icon in system tray which you open to see who is chatting with you on skype/msn/yahoo etc...

I really dont see proble with either that (since i dont have to be spammed with window instead i can read stupid post on group charter and close it right on the spot), nor with tabbed ims interface, so every im/group charter is at the same place (well, apart from regular chat, which again i find ok tho that just might be me...)

And sorry, havent run v1.2 derivates since shenanigans with Emerald, can you tell me how comunications are done in v1.2 please.

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Wakizashi Yoshikawa wrote:

You are aware that 90% of IM's are working like that? Flashing icon in system tray which you open to see who is chatting with you on skype/msn/yahoo etc...

I really dont see proble with either that (since i dont have to be spammed with window instead i can read stupid post on group charter and close it right on the spot), nor with tabbed ims interface, so every im/group charter is at the same place (well, apart from regular chat, which again i find ok tho that just might be me...)

And sorry, havent run v1.2 derivates since shenanigans with Emerald, can you tell me how comunications are done in v1.2 please.

Well, SL is SL,a virtual 3D world, not a control center for various messenger services and in SL, the immersion of the 3D world is most important for me. Look at my Firestorm Viewer screenshot I posted above to see the unified messaging window. Right clicking it and selecting 'Show Graphics' will bring it up in a higher resolution. There is one resizeable window, containing all messages, if it's local chat ( with history and chat bar), group chat, IMs plus friends list and groups,  all in one, easy overview, no need to move my eyes around on the screen to possible miss a flashing tiny icon or something someone has said in local chat while I am being in an IM . Unwanted group messages or IMs can be closed by one single click  and I don't have to look at different corners of the screen all the time, I am using a 30 inch display here, so my eyes would fatigue from moving around all the time quite fast, an experience I made when I had not given up on LL browsers.... The clutter and waste of screen real estate in the V2 Browser GUI  is an absolute showstopper form me and the cluttered comm stuff spread all over the screen plus the stupid, function limiting sidebar and the web profiles are the main reasons for me never to touch a LL Browser again.

 

Jeannie

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