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Avatar complexity-- how can I get others to see me correctly


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  By now most of you know that there is this new thing called avatar complexity with some not being rendered correctly if they go over a certain complexity. My problem is that I RP as a tusk boar and other role players need to see me as a boar, not a big blob of red as has been reported to me. I cannot expect other role players to go into their preferences and set the slider to "unlimited". I cannot take off parts of my avatar either. Does anyone have any idea on how to go around SL's newest problem that they have thrown at us? They need to see my avatar as a brown boar with tusks, not a red blob.  :manmad:

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This is not something you can influence directly.

You could never influence how others see your avatar. Just like you can't controll how other people set their lightning or their graphic details in general, you can not dictate them at what complexity they want to cut off rendering. The automatic setting seems to be orientated at what their computer is easily capable off. So someone with a good computer can probably always see you correctly (if he/she doesn't change it manually) and someone with a potatoe pc might not see you.

The higher your avatar complexity, the higher the chance that people won't see you correctly. But take note: An unusual high complexity does not come from an avatar that wears too much stuff, but who wears really badly made stuff that uses way too many 1024 sized textures. The solution to that is of course shopping for something that is build more economically or (if you have some building skills) editing the things.

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I really have to agree with Syo there. Assuming you're talking about a straight animal avatar it should never be anywhere near any kind of ARC limit. So something must have gone really wrong when yours was made. If it's modifiable and you have enough content creation knowledge, fix it. If not, I'm afraid the only option is to see if you can find a better one to buy.

 


 

Edit: to illustrate this, here is the good old SL10B Bear avatar:



Render weight is 1874. You probably want something a little bit more fancy than that one but even if it is 20 times as complex as this, it still shouldn't be anywhere near anybody's ARC threshold.

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artifactsofmars Omegaman wrote:

I cannot take off parts of my avatar either. 

One way or another, you're going to have to change your avatar if you want people to reliably see you.

Have you carefully assessed what each attachment adds to your Avatar Rendering Complexity? Although there are some uniformly awful avatars, usually it's just one or two silly things that drive the ARC through the roof -- and once identified, they can be replaced.

Do you need more information about how to assess your ARC, so you can tell which attachments are the problem as you add and remove them individually?

(There's also a pretty good hint, using the "Display" weight of "More Info" about Land Impact in the Build Tool, but adding and removing items and watching ARC is nearly as easy.)

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As others have said, how others see you is not something you can directly control. Even with well-made and optimised attachments, there is no guarantee you're not a Jelly Doll to someone who has opted to set their Max Complexity especially low.

However, in the context of your role-play enironment, you could ask those around you who are seeing you as a "Jelly Doll" to right-click on your avatar and select "render fully".

This will render your avatar as you wish them to see you, but will not alter their existing Max Complexity setting, and so will not impact how they see others wherever else they go. 

In the official viewer (and TPVs using the Avatar Complexity code unaltered from the Lab), this option will only render you fully during the other user's log-in session. The next time they log-in and see you, you'll again be Jelly Dolled, and they'll need to select "Render Fully" with you once more.

In Firestorm, using this option will always render your avatar fully in the other person's view, until such time as they select "Render Normally" via the avatar context menu  / pie menu when right-clicking on you (or if they right-click on you and select "Do not Render", in which case, you become a plain grey shape in their view).

Hope this helps.

 

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Too many people with over complex avatars is the problem because they cause lag.  Allowing us to limit avatar comlexity on our viewers is a solution to that problem.  At busy clubs there's a noticeable improvement in performance if I turn just a few lag-monsters into jellydolls. !!!

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There is only one boar avatar for sale on the MP, so I wonder if you can post an image of your avatar? (Edit: Link to the video?)

I am not sure in how high AC is for prim avatars in general, mesh avatars is much lower, but boars is so rare that perhaps is is only one option in the whole SL... i don't know, but it is interesting. Unusual avatars is always of great interest to me.


artifactsofmars Omegaman wrote:

  By now most of you know that there is this new thing called avatar complexity with some not being rendered correctly if they go over a certain complexity. My problem is that I RP as a tusk boar and other role players need to see me as a boar, not a big blob of red as has been reported to me. I cannot expect other role players to go into their preferences and set the slider to "unlimited". I cannot take off parts of my avatar either. Does anyone have any idea on how to go around SL's newest problem that they have thrown at us? They need to see my avatar as a brown boar with tusks, not a red blob.  :manmad:



Is it a biped, and wear clothes, or is it a realistic boar without any accessories? Prim jewellery, like rings with gems around the tusks, can have enormous high AC.

Is it involved in roleplay that require the adult parts, and can those have too high complexity?

Lots of questions here. You can try to see what parts that has highest AC, and ask for suggestions for light AC replacements.

 

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artifactsofmars Omegaman wrote:

  Well thank you all for your replies.  This could very quickly put an end to roleplay on SL and maybe a few other things too. See my you-tube video on the subject. 

I don't think it will put an end to anything. It only might encourage creators to build in more efficient ways and especially discourage people who rip 3D models directly from other games (heard of an example, where there was evidence that a hair creator used hair from the Sims 3, which alone had an AC of 600.000).

People who see a lot of Jelly Dolls usually have weak computers. Those same users probably struggled before to be in areas with lots of avatars or around avatars with very ressource intensive outfits. The introduction of AC only highlights this, but does not create the problem in itself. Someone with that sort of system might not have been into roleplay or night clubbing before...so you don't lose them as a participant. And if all else fails: Everyone can turn this feature off or set the bar higher...at their own risk.

 

I'll give you a link to a blogpost from Penny Patton. She is heavily into fantasy avatars (hers is a Minotaur) and a very skilled builder. Her insight into AC is quite interesting and her comparision of modding her own avatar before and after proves that its not impossible to look cool and have a reasonable AC: http://pennycow.blogspot.de/2015/02/draw-weight.html

 

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artifactsofmars Omegaman wrote:

This could very quickly put an end to roleplay on SL and maybe a few other things too.

Maybe but look at it the other way: no "jellybaby" function not only could but would put an end to roleplay on SL because soon there wouldn't be enough people left to rp with. How do you think SL would look if ninety percent of the current users had to give up because their computers couldn't cope with the lag?

 

Also, do not for a moment fool yourself into thinking a high ARC avatar means a high quality one. High render weight (I'm talking about several hundred thousand for an avatar here) always means poor quality. Unfortunately SL has always been wide open to unqualified content creators who do not understand the basic principles of 3D modelling. That has caused and still cause serious performance problems for everybody. It's especially serious with avatars since until now there's never been any serious attempt to control their resource abuse. LL should have seen this coming and they should have done something long ago. But they didn't, they stalled until the situation had become so critical they had to react and then of course they did it in a way that means it's the buyers who have to pay for the mistake, not the makers and sellers of all the sub standard content SL is infested with.

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artifactsofmars Omegaman wrote:

  Well thank you all for your replies.  This could very quickly put an end to roleplay on SL and maybe a few other things too.

If you were never going to accept the answers, why ask the question?

 


artifactsofmars Omegaman wrote:

  See my you-tube video on the subject. 

Ah. 

No.

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artifactsofmars Omegaman wrote:

  By now most of you know that there is this new thing called avatar complexity with some not being rendered correctly if they go over a certain complexity. My problem is that I RP as a tusk boar and other role players need to see me as a boar, not a big blob of red as has been reported to me. I cannot expect other role players to go into their preferences and set the slider to "unlimited". I cannot take off parts of my avatar either. Does anyone have any idea on how to go around SL's newest problem that they have thrown at us? They need to see my avatar as a brown boar with tusks, not a red blob.  :manmad:

I watched about half of your video. Don't worry, I think everyone will be able to see you as a bore pretty easily.

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The first thing i do when i visit a club is derender all the rotating flashing lights and movng floors. I

Occasionally i'll drop my max avatar render weight, and it does improve my frame rate a lot, but only if i drop the limit to the minimum and make everyone except me and my companions jelly dolls.

Cuting off the few extremely high render weight avatars really wouldn't make much of a difference, unless the club is full of them.

:)

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900 series Nvida Graphics card

16 gigs of Ram

Internet upload and download 70 times faster than the day I started playing SL

Seeing everyone as a blob because I want to, Priceless for everything else there's MasterCard.

Ive seen no difference in the way SL runs the lab messed up big time with this like they do everything else. Busy clubs or shopping events the jellydolls are only half rezzed plus its still 5 steps forward 3 steps back most the time rubberbanding like a maniac at these busy places. Im sure thats my fault as well. Whats your next punishment LL to run more people off. Have your friends right click on you and more and more render fully. Works everytime.

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your internet 70 times faster doesn't mean anything.

If it's not stable it's useless for SL.

Your internet speed means nothing if your network card can't handle it

Your 900 series nvidia also means not much... some of those are perfect, others just are hardly competing with hd graphics 4000.

 

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artifactsofmars Omegaman wrote:

  Well thank you all for your replies.  This could very quickly put an end to roleplay on SL and maybe a few other things too. See my you-tube video on the subject. 

Yeah, I don't do YouTube except under duress, but if we need to blame the ARC-related death of SL roleplay on somebody, let's put it where it belongs: creators of no-mod avatar components. If they all disappeared from SL tomorrow, it would be a better place.

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As you have discovered to your cost you have come across two SL downsides. These are namely 1) The 'forumites' patronising replies to your perfectly legitimate problem, and 2) LL's silly jelly bean avatar we-can't-be-arsed-to-fix/improve-our-servers-so-we-will-introduce-this-laughably-ludicrous-thing-we-call-avatar-complexity-which-means-in-english-our-servers-don't-work-as-well-as-they-did-back-in-2008. For future, you may safely ignore any posts from the 'forumites', the sad saps with anything above 1500 posts; they spend more time in the forums in their tiresome clique than they actually do inworld in SL. Unbelievable, but true. As for the 'jelly bean' shambles. Yeah, it's hard to believe, ain't it? Yeah, you are right - RP is killed stone dead, as is having to look at these pre 1999 graphic representations of avatars in clubs or beaches. But, hey!...it's the dozy creators fault for making these cool mesh avs, (which LL takes a tasty cut of), and are too complex, and not done 'correctly' so you can't see them and they can't see you. Great, huh? Solution? Stay off the forums, with the possible exception of the SLU forums (google it) and stay in quieter sims with your friends.

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Hoshi Kenin wrote:

As you have discovered to your cost you have come across two SL downsides. These are namely 1) The 'forumites' patronising replies to your perfectly legitimate problem, and 2) LL's silly jelly bean avatar we-can't-be-arsed-to-fix/improve-our-servers-so-we-will-introduce-this-laughably-ludicrous-thing-we-call-avatar-complexity-which-means-in-english-our-servers-don't-work-as-well-as-they-did-back-in-2008. For future, you may safely ignore any posts from the 'forumites', the sad saps with anything above 1500 posts; they spend more time in the forums in their tiresome clique than they actually do inworld in SL. Unbelievable, but true. As for the 'jelly bean' shambles. Yeah, it's hard to believe, ain't it? Yeah, you are right - RP is killed stone dead, as is having to look at these pre 1999 graphic representations of avatars in clubs or beaches. But, hey!...it's the dozy creators fault for making these cool mesh avs, (which LL takes a tasty cut of), and are too complex, and not done 'correctly' so you can't see them and they can't see you. Great, huh? Solution? Stay off the forums, with the possible exception of the SLU forums (google it) and stay in quieter sims with your friends.

1.) Servers have almost no involvement in rendering. It's entirely viewer-side.

2) Mr. Omegaman's boar avatar is a prim-and-flexi relic.

3) His rendering weight is only around 65,000. The only preset level his avatar won't be visible on Firestorm is the lowest one. The people who can't see him won't be able to see most avatars. and the ones they can see are probably going to be the ones wearing the most recent kit.

Is it Opposite Day already?

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:


Hoshi Kenin wrote:

... with the possible exception of the SLU forums (google it) 

 ... Is it Opposite Day already?

Hah, yeah, good luck with this crap over at SLU, where such fools are not suffered gladly. The LL forums are tame in comparison.

[ETA: That's not to discourage folks from reading-up on what's posted there about this subject -- it would be a fine bit of education for those ranting about the death of roleplay at the hands of the dreaded jellydolls. Here's a link that may or may not survive this forum's automated shenanigans: http://goo.gl/rQiGMh ].

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Hoshi Kenin wrote:

LL's silly jelly bean avatar we-can't-be-arsed-to-fix/improve-our-servers-so-we-will-introduce-this-laughably-ludicrous-thing-we-call-avatar-complexity-which-means-in-english-our-servers-don't-work-as-well-as-they-did-back-in-2008.

Sorry Hoshi but you are absolutely wrong there and I strongly suggest you try to make sure you have at least some idea what you are talking about before you start criticising everybody else.

Rendering is not done by any server, has never been done by any server and can not be done by any server. Every single item, every single texture and every single animation is fetched from the CDN network and transferred to our computers. Once the data has been transferred (and that usually doesn't take long) it's all up to the client computer to make sense of it. From then on it simply doesn't matter how good or bad the servers are because they're not involved in the visual aspect. Except of course when and avatar or other object is moved manually or by a script but that hardly ever causes any huge server load. This is probably why Linden Lab neglected the significance of the ever increasing render load for so long: it didn't affect their equipment and they failed to realize how much it reduced the experience for their customers.

 

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Okay so I opened the video and the first thing I see is some redneck agenda pushing. Nah, that's your problem right there. I mean, it could be the flexis that you shouldn't be using but an unwillingness to change and accept new ideas is the cornerstone of republicans and yes, that is your problem.

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Marianne Little wrote:

I found the youtube video. I post it here. After seeing it, I would say that there should be a mesh alternative, that would be really much more realistic. But then, perhaps boar is not of much interest?

I told myself not to click on the video.... I knew better. I did. But, dare I say it? I was bored.  

It was sort of like watching a train wreck. From the "Ruthed" looking human avatar, with BLING! To the odd delivery style. To the dead slow pacing. To the erroneous technical aspects. To the... There. Was. Bling! :) Green Bling!  That's pretty much what I took away.

If you were running a slow computer five (10) years ago you didn't see things rezzed properly either. If you're running a brick and everyone around you is using high-load stuff, you're not going to have a good experience. Jellies have given people another way to control their own lag.

I've grumbled about the lack of good RP in SL. Never once did I complain because the tusk boar was rendered (pun!) like jellied bacon...

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