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Clariel Rishmal

We should be able to fly between islands.

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Think of how amazing it would be to fly between one island and another. No more teleportation hell. Think of all you could see, all you could explore, if we could seamlessly fly from the mainland to the island areas.

A virtual world isn't really a world when each island is isolated and separate from the others.

Tech limitations in 2009 or whatever dictated this sad fact, but now SL should liberate itself from this anchor around its neck. I believe freedom to fly over the ocean between islands would revolutionize this whole experience.

Come on LL, please consider this. How is a mass of thousands of isolated specks that you have to teleport between a "virtual world"? Sounds more like virtual fragments.

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You can fly over ocean (Blake Sea for example) between islands and bits of mainland. There are also private archipeligos that contain open water spaces between islands. But you can't fly from individual private region to private region precisely because they are private. Most of LL's revenue comes from tier payments, so the desires of region owners cannot be ignored.

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If you mean the empty areas between non-mainland regions, then it simply won't happen because having those place as active sims would take a lot of server resources. Except LL engineered a way to create a "Super lightweight sims that barely use any server resource" for empty areas.

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Move to the mainland. That's what the mainland is about, unbroken movement between regions by foot, car, rail, water... or even flying if that's your thing.

People get private islands because they want to be relatively inaccessible.

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There are other ways to have privacy. Enclose your private island in a bubble or structure. Or gently nudge away avatars who get too close to your private island. Fragmenting the world into a bunch of pieces that you have to teleport between robs SL of continuity and the feeling of being an actual interconnected place.

Did this decision cause the sort of stagnation SL has seen over the past 10 years? I don't know but it can't be helping. It's not a real world until it's possible to fly over empty sea areas and reach other regions. Not just on the continents but everywhere.

Server limitations are a poor excuse in 2016 and so is privacy. There are other ways that don't break the continuity of the world.

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and how you'r going to pay for the use of other people's area...where they have to pay a serious amount each month?...

 

or is this just the zillionst... i want all use and access for free demand?

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Clariel Rishmal wrote:

A virtual world isn't really a world when each island is isolated and separate from the others.

I was going to say that a "world isn't really a world when" you fly in it, but then I saw that you'd included the word virtual. So I'll simply remind you that SL is a virtual world, in which things are different to other worlds, such as the RL world. In this virtual world, you can fly but not everywhere. That's the way this world is.

I'm not saying whether your suggestion is good or bad. I'm just saying that your idea that "A virtual world isn't really a world when ..." is wrong.

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is quite fascinating to me the idea of flight between distant sims, continents, worlds even

a way it can be done is to allow the user to determine for themselves the time they want their teleports to take

some people would want insta-teleport like now, and others would go the other way. Like how far away in distance is my destination, divide it by the speed of my vehiclet, and it will take me X time to complete

which would be pretty boring if all we looked at was a black Teleport screen for the whole time

+

what I think would cool, is to make a whole other scene during the teleport time. Like we can right-click and jump into our craft, sailing boat, or car, or plane, or space craft, which ever. And the background scene would show appropriately. Sea, road, sky, space, etc as we choose for our vehicle type

and we could even be able to texture and furnish our inter-sim vehicles. Gypsy live in them even, if we wanted

like on a long journey to the bar at the end universe, we can walk round, sort our invent, change outfits, chat IM to our groups and friends, build even

and out our ports we can see other vehicles travelling the lanes also

and when arrive at our destination then we teleported automagically out of our vehicles (with some warning time that landfall is approaching) and avatar landed on the destination sim

would be way cool this

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Clariel Rishmal wrote:

There are other ways to have privacy. Enclose your private island in a bubble or structure. Or gently nudge away avatars who get too close to your private island. Fragmenting the world into a bunch of pieces that you have to teleport between robs SL of continuity and the feeling of being an actual interconnected place.

Did this decision cause the sort of stagnation SL has seen over the past 10 years? I don't know but it can't be helping. It's not a real world until it's possible to fly over empty sea areas and reach other regions. Not just on the continents but everywhere.

Server limitations are a poor excuse in 2016 and so is privacy. There are other ways that don't break the continuity of the world.

Why should private island owners that want to remain private have to spend money on devices to prevent access to fliers?  Why should estate owners pay anything just so you can have things your way?

Even if  LL figured a way to do this and even provide estate owners with an option to rebuff you, that will cost money to pay the people who work on the code, and the servers needed. If they figured out a way to minimize server cost, there is still expense involved. Who should pay?  

I wouldn't want to pay a penny extra, as I am satisfied with the present system.  I have no interest in flying to a destination, it wastes unnecessary time when I can TP instantly.  I suspect most people wouldn't either and I doubt it would attract more people to SL.

Would you support the "fliers" having to pay a fee for access to the spaces between land that are not already ocean?  I doubt it.  Thousands of minimal 'passage' sims would be needed maybe even tens of thousands.  Even if it costs LL just $1 per passage sim per month that is still costly.  

Or lets suppose LL only gives you the illusion of flying over the void, when you actually aren't.  It would just be a sort of long TP?  I don't see the advantage.

I really don't think you have thought this through very well.

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"Server limitations are a poor excuse in 2016..." I think the practicality of this as well as the cost has been covered pretty well. Which leads us to;

"... and so is privacy". Just : no.

 

 

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This a generic reply to the thread, and not specifically to you, Amethyst.

When you fly straight up, after a while you don't move up any more. Only the height number changes, and not your position. The sim is 4096 meters high and that's it. After that, it's just numbers.

In a similar way, when you fly straight at the mainland boundary, things could be programmed so that you 'appear' to keep on flying in the same direction, with sea below. But only numbers need to change. Sims to fly through are not needed at all. And, of course, the numbers can be continually changed to keep tabs of what 'appears to be' your location, including direction changes, so that, if you've flown towards an island, it comes into sight etc. when you've flown the right distance.

The point I'm making is that sims are not needed between the mainland and islands for it to appear that you're flying between them.

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Phil Deakins wrote:

When you fly straight up, after a while you don't move up any more. Only the height number changes, and not your position. The sim is 4096 meters high and that's it. After that, it's just numbers.

unless LL have made some new changes to how sims work then we still do physics-wise move up

the most obvious sign of this is that we get so high (in the 10s of millions meters) the math calcs start to lose precision, and our avatar and attachments begin to distort

i havent tested this for ages tho, so you could be right about how the sims work now

+

but defo on the horizontals I agree with you about how that could be done

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lucagrabacr wrote:

Except LL engineered a way to create a "Super lightweight sims that barely use any server resource" for empty areas.

Which in theory might not be hard.

It can be open space level and virtualisation allows them to just have 9 running with you in the middle. As you cross, power down the one behind and power up the one in front. As long as your speed is good you will have a seamless flight.

 

As for island security, enforce a 1 sim void all around unless the owner of the sim allows a virtual joinup.

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Except that scripts (attached to an avatar) need to have a CPU upon which their code will run. Same for avatar communications.

 

When flying up, you're still in the same sim, there's a CPU upon which code for that avatar can execute. If the avatar is supposedly flying beyond that sim, where is it? Upon which simulator platform is the avatar being simulated on?

 

You can't say "it's on the first one" without making provision for that avatars resources to no longer count. That's probably a significant amount of redesign for an unnecessary feature. Who really wants to fly for ages?

 

To the OP, it's called Second Life, not Second World. TP is just fine in my opinion.

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Phil Deakins wrote:

When you fly straight up, after a while you don't move up any more. Only the height number changes, and not your position. The sim is 4096 meters high and that's it. After that, it's just numbers.

So easy to disprove this.

  • Boot into firestorm/singu/most TPVs with platform from the commad line.
  • Fly to 4096, type rezplat
  • Fly up 256M type rezplat, look down, you see the 4096M platform
  • Fly up 256M type rezplat, look down you see 2 platforms below
  • Fly up 256M type rezplat, look down, you see three platforms
  • and so on.



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"I really don't think you have thought this through very well."

Actually hon, I've thought this through quite well ever since my then-bf got me into SL in 2008.

 

Phil, thank you for your reply. That's exactly what I think LL should do. There would be no privacy issues, but it would appear you can travel seamlessly between regions with no TP. They should implement your idea today!

 

Seamless flight would make the entire map seem open and inviting.

Another change I would like to see is that each island should be viewable from the nearest neighbor island. Nothing specific, just a smudge on the horizon that would let you feel like there is another place over there. I guess if some owners are so fixated on their privacy that they don't even want the neighbors to know their island is there, they could opt out. But I think the vast majority wouldn't have a problem with a neighbor seeing their island on the horizon and knowing there is someone else over there, building a home.

 

These might seem like tiny changes that aren't even worth it, but they would make the whole place more inviting and "real"-seeming. Simple things that wouldn't cost much but might pay for themselves in the long run by attracting or retaining residents. I for one would love to sit on a beach and see new islands being created on the horizon. Maybe even fly over and say hello if the builders permitted it.

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Well, however the up-flight actually works isn't really important. That's just how it appears to be. I used it as an example of what I was trying to put across.

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Sassy Romano wrote:

Except that scripts (attached to an avatar) need to have a CPU upon which their code will run. Same for avatar communications.

 

When flying up, you're still in the same sim, there's a CPU upon which code for that avatar can execute. If the avatar is supposedly flying beyond that sim, where is it? Upon which simulator platform is the avatar being simulated on?

 

You can't say "it's on the first one" without making provision for that avatars resources to no longer count. That's probably a significant amount of redesign for an unnecessary feature. Who really wants to fly for ages?

Ok, but it wouldn't need the space between mainland and islands filling in with sims to enable apparent flight between them. That's the point I was making. It would only need numbers (location tracking) and perhaps one or three systems to accommodate scripts and such during multiple apparent flights.

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As a sailor and pilot, sailing and flying between continents is a desirable thing, as would be taking off from my non-joined estate and flying off to the blake sea.

 

But it must be the estate owners choice, just as they can choose to allow neighbors. [ ] Allow Overflights. If they don't tick that, 1 region all around fence where nobody can enter or see. Or at worst, a blank landmass with zero objects.

 

Heh, the times I pull up my flightsim and fly from Sydney to New Zealand, three hours of blue sea and nothing. But the view isn't the point.

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I understand what you are saying.  Maybe Sansar will give you what you are asking but I am afraied it will be large isolated areas instead of tiny isolated areas.

. In SL we would just be traiding teleport delays with sim crossing rubber bands.  Thankfully there are vast areas of mainland to explore if you want to fly from one sim to the next, and the next, and the next.

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Clariel Rishmal wrote:

 I guess if some owners are so fixated on their privacy that they don't even want the neighbors to know their island is there, they could opt out. But I think the vast majority wouldn't have a problem with a neighbor seeing their island on the horizon and knowing there is someone else over there, building a home.

Yes, you would think so, though never underestimate the level of psychotic privacy-obsessed introverts who think that an ability to pay huge amounts of tier gives them more right to determine SL features!

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wolfshanty wrote:

psychotic privacy-obsessed introverts

and really no one of those will prevent you to buy 25 km length of sims to connect one place with another...

 

oh wait... erased accidently the part that they actually PAY for their sims...how silly that they can do with it what they want...

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Fascinating:)

We have the OP who is partnered to someone who states  'I like invadin peeps houses.'

https://my.secondlife.com/mouselook.scrabblebat

And a reponder who doesn't understand that they can't, in general, just pick up others stuff that they take a fancy to.

https://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/How-do-I-pick-up-objects/m-p/3018250

Good stuff =^^=

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Sassy Romano wrote:

Except that scripts (attached to an avatar) need to have a CPU upon which their code will run. Same for avatar communications.

 

When flying up, you're still in the same sim, there's a CPU upon which code for that avatar can execute. If the avatar is supposedly flying beyond that sim, where is it? Upon which simulator platform is the avatar being simulated on?

 


AuroraSim, the OpenSim fork, had that worked that out

you could walk/fly off the edge of the sim, and even sail away on a boat off the edge, as far as you wanted to into the void. When you did crossed another sim boundary out there, then you got handed to that sim. Same like any other sim crossing

was quite cool how that worked

+

another pretty interesting thing you could do with a mod of AuroraSim was make a small var sim of 64x64, and then at a distance create a ring of sims round it with void space between the ring and the center sim

then what you could do is move all the avatars spawned on the ring sims into the void surrounding the center sim. A concert stage. I managed to get 128 ring sims and just over 3000 bots into the void next to the stage before my computer fell over

nobody has worked on AuroraSim for ages now and I think has been pretty much abandoned. Was pretty cool tho what people were doing with that

  

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To me, Second Life consists of two kinds of 'virtual land' - The Mainland, which contains large continents and some smaller bits, and the 'islands' - or sims that are privately owned. Sometimes there is a cluster of 'islands' that may look like a large continent, but they are still separated from the Mainland by what I call "The Great Nothing" which looks blue but isn't water, land, or air.

As you've mentioned, the only way to get from 'islands' to the Mainland is to teleport. Once you've got to the Mainland; however, there are systems of roads and waterways that you can use to get around within continents. You can find information on roads on the SL Wiki, and there are sailing and flying groups that maintain maps showing waterways and airways. The SLGI Geography Institute is also a great resource.

Anyone is free to rez a vehicle to travel the Mainland roads; however, it is not an option that ever seems to be promoted on the Destination Guide.  One problem has always been sim crossing - since the Lindens started the policy of leaving sims inactive when no one is there (like turning off the lights when people leave a room) you may have to wait at a sim crossing for the next sim to be turned on before you can proceed. There is a proverb "Never go faster than your guardian angel can fly" and my version of that is "Never travel faster than Second Life can rez". 

As far as I know, no other virtual world has the same travel network as Second Life. For that, I think we can credit the foresight of some of the early Lindens, and the hard work of the Linden Moles, who often had to work around the fact that sometimes the Lindens would sell parcels that were supposed to be right of ways.

I agree with you that it would be great if we could fly everywhere in Second Life, but for now I am grateful that there is such a lot of Mainland I can explore.

 

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