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Kylara Kuhn

Get rid of the Jellydoll notification popup?

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BilliJo Aldrin wrote:

I'm not sure the best possible SL experience is obtained by seeing everyone as solid colored blobs.

 

I never said it was. In fact, I'm pretty sure I said LL's approach to this has been poorly thought out.

I said finding a way to encourage content creators to make content with low draw weight is a good idea that would lead to the best possible experience.

 


BilliJo Aldrin wrote:

I think if you have a reasonably adequate computer, and runs with graphics setting that your computer is actually capable of coping with, seeing an occasional  avatar with a complexity of 500,000 is not gonna affect your SL experience in the slightest.

Here's the thing, LL really needs to get better about encourage optimized content all the way around. Yes, encourage better optimized avatars, but also encourage better optimized environments. Land Impact calculations make it so content creators at least have to consider keeping poly counts low, but some cheat by cutting out LOD (which defeats the purpose and kills framerates further when you crank up the LOD settings on your viewer to compensate) and LL has done nothing to discourage poor use of textures. Just reducing texture use to reasonable levels is usually enough to make framerates in a sim double, even on ten year old computers.

 If people did that then the impact of bloated, badly made 500,000DW avatars would be immediately apparent, rather than masked by all of the other badly made content surrounding you and dragging your framerates down.

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Last few days i have been playing around with it

Nude i seem to be in the 60k to 90k range depending on which body, head, hair and such im using at the time

Dressed it seems to vary based on how nice my outfit looks with my better outfis being higher (150k-250k range)

My PC is a few years old with a mid range grphics card and unless in a fully packed sim it seems to have little trouble

loading everyone.

*shrugs*

Outside of the ocasional event where things seem a bit slow this is a feature i will completly ignore and just wear what i like.

Maybe someday when complexity info is listed on the items I buy, I will take it into consideration, for now looks is the only thing i will think about when shopping and getting dressed

 

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Funny to see this got in an all out discussion, with assumptions and all, about how important it is to be careful with complexity. I actually work in the graphic industry and understand this all too well. For now my avatar has 80,000 and I have absoluely no problem in a busy sim with some people below that number and a lot above it so complexity was not the problem in this thread at all (yes I have a good pc).

The only thing I wanted to know was how to get rid of that annoying popup. Not by derendering myself so I am the one with the lowest impact but by simply removing that popup. The first who answered in this thread gave also the perfect answer and I'm very happy with the result. Everything else behind that is just noise and perhaps for a different thread about if jellydolls is a smart implementation or not.

Anyway... feel free to keep discussing this but even if I started this thread.. I'm out of it now because it got off subject.

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Just for fun, while I was at a busy club yesterday, with my frame rate at 8 fps, i dropped the render complexity from no limit to the minimum, 20,000 in firestorm. Everyone became jellies, and my fps went to 17. So i guess avatar complexity does have a significant effect.

:)

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BilliJo Aldrin wrote:

Just for fun, while I was at a busy club yesterday, with my frame rate at 8 fps, i dropped the render complexity from no limit to the minimum, 20,000 in firestorm. Everyone became jellies, and my fps went to 17. So i guess avatar complexity does have a significant effect.

:)


I'm curious as to what your framerates would be with only those avatars in the green being rendered? 

YMMV but I'm willing to bet if the club owner was able to do a thorough job of just reducing texture use in the club (not even getting into optimizing the prim and mesh use, just cutting back on the size/number of textures and using the masking feature on all of the alpha textures they use), it would have doubled your framerates again, putting your fps over 30. Then you could nudge that complexity limit up render some of the reasonably low impact avatars and still have decent fps.

 And apologies to the OP, but some of the replying posts on the first page or two really illustrated the confusion and frustration many people have about the feature and why it exists at all. Which is understandable, LL doesn't exactly do a stellar job at explaining these things. I figured since your question was answered I might as well respond to those comments here rather than making a separate thread about it.

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Penny Patton wrote:

And apologies to the OP

 I've kept away from this thread since it's really only a duplicate of another active thread.

But really, I do not think anybody owes the OP any apologies. She started the thread with an arrogant comment about "old computers" and she just got what she asked for.

The morale is, if you don't want rude answers, don't ask rude questions.

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Nova Convair wrote:

Lately I was at a club and had the 2nd highest complexity. ( about 60,000 ) Nearly everytime someone rezzed I got that message that I'm not seen by everybody .. blah blah. It was obviously the rezpoint of SL's craptop user club with low settings as a must.

 

These blame it on other peoples computers assumptions are getting tedious. Can we have a debug setting to turn them off please? :matte-motes-wink:

Surely entering places like C88 and clubs is a great time to lower the complexity rating and then increase it to whatever works best for the crowd there that day. It seems an imminently sensible use of the feature.

 

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I agree with ChinRey and also think that a thread with this title is an excellent place for further discussion since it will benefit those who look it up in the archives. If it was simply the answer to the OP's question, it would reinforce the mistaken idea that the best solution is to just turn it off.

Hopefully those who think to use the archive search instead of making a thread to ask the question yet again will be more receptive to the whys of it all.

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Bitsy Buccaneer wrote:


These blame it on other peoples computers assumptions are getting tedious. Can we have a debug setting to turn them off please? 


Not complaining about other people's computers at all. As long as they don't whine about me having a good one either. Those silly messages are a pain in the ass from those kind of computers though.

But since I can now easily get rid of those things, I'm happy with it. I can advice you to do the same in reverse and turn me into a jellydoll... or even mute/derender me if you dislike me enough. It does not influence my SL even the slightest.

I got rid of the whining messages about others who might not be able to see me so the rest of all that is said is not important to me at all :)

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It was a tongue in cheek joke (note the smiley at the end which you cut off in quoting me) in reply to a post written to someone other than you. I believed you when you said you were leaving the thread too, so I didn't worry about trying to incorporate your specific brand of assumption about complexity settings and other people's computers into the quip.

Those sorts of assumptions come up frequently, not just in this thread, and my joke was in reference to them as well. Hopefully it made some of the forum regulars smile. The post I quoted and replied to used an example for which a different reason is quite plausible and probably more likely than her assumption that nearly everyone (her words) rezzing in had a craptop (her word) which forced the use of low settings. That kind of assumption isn't going to help anyone. It's unfairly divisive.

In the meantime, I came across a post on the Mesh Body Addicts site which mentioned using a 40,000 setting for events. Given the popularity of that site and the respect accorded it, I'd put even more money on a situation in which the majority rezzed in with a reduced complexity setting being due to their choices (and perhaps shared information) rather than the age or quality of their computers.

That was the context of my reply to someone else's post.

I didn't think enough about you to dislike you, whine about the quality of your computer or anything else. My early impression wasn't entirely favourable, but I really didn't worry about it. I am curious why you chose to respond with divisive and presumptive wording like advising me to turn you into a jellydoll or mute or derender you. It seems you are continuing to make unfounded assumptions about other people in SL. That's not fair or helpful to anyone.

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Kylara Kuhn wrote:

 got rid of the whining messages about others who might not be able to see me so the rest of all that is said is not important to me at all 
:)

Oh, if only we could toggle the whining of people who get those messages as easily. :smileyvery-happy:

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Rhonda Huntress wrote:

Oh, if only we could toggle the whining of people who get those messages as easily. :smileyvery-happy:

You can! <Alt> <F4> :matte-motes-big-grin-squint:

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Bitsy Buccaneer wrote:


Nova Convair wrote:

Lately I was at a club and had the 2nd highest complexity. ( about 60,000 ) Nearly everytime someone rezzed I got that message that I'm not seen by everybody .. blah blah. It was obviously the rezpoint of SL's craptop user club with low settings as a must.

 

These blame it on other peoples computers assumptions are getting tedious. Can we have a debug setting to turn them off please? :matte-motes-wink:

Surely entering places like C88 and clubs is a great time to lower the complexity rating and then increase it to whatever works best for the crowd there that day. It seems an imminently sensible use of the feature.

 

I don't need to lower my complexity because it's always one of the lowest. (usually 30-70k - nude even less :D ) If I get that message there must be someone around that sees less than 5% of the population. A craptop user even. :)

But if I get spammed with that message at some places, that surprises me a little. However - none of my problems and by switching off that message completely I don't even need to think of it. :)

But I'm nice and will keep my low arc profile. And all the whining that is talked about - I take the freedom to simply ignore that :)

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I don't think anyone has said anything about you needing to lower your complexity rating, Nova. My comments were a joke about the "Blame it all on someone else's computer" attitude we see so often here and the observation that entering a club would be a sensible time to lower the setting temporarily. I explained further in a response to Kylara on the previous page. It's in between two of her thread flounces.

Of course, you're free to ignore my meaning too. :matte-motes-smile:

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Kylara Kuhn wrote:

Not complaining about other people's computers at all. As long as they don't whine about me having a good one either. Those silly messages are a pain in the ass from those kind of computers though.


There are definitey people complaining about other people's computers, though. It's been a common complaint since long before Jellydolls were a thing, and you see it in this thread as well. And it's not that people are complaining you have a good one, unoptimized content affects you as well, even if you don't realize it. With the amount of money you spent on your good computer you really should be able to get more out of SL than you do.

 And that's my big complaint about how LL has approached the issue, it just makes people butt heads against each other like this. "Your avatar has way too high a draw weight, it's lagging everyone else down" versus "My avatar is beautiful, if it lags your computer then you should buy a better one! Your fault, not mine!"

 If LL had, at the beginning, just given avatars some sort of point pool for attachments, similar to Land Impact, we wouldn't be having this discussion. LL would have curbed the worst of the unoptimized content, avatars would still look just as pretty. Problem solved before it ever became a problem.

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I don't complain about other people's computers.

I complain about people with low end computers who complain that SL runs like crapola for them.

(Actually I don't complain.  I just get tired of the complaints.  And I marvel at peoples expectations from over glorified word processors.)

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Penny Patton wrote:

If LL had, at the beginning, just given avatars some sort of point pool for attachments, similar to Land Impact, we wouldn't be having this discussion. LL would have curbed the worst of the unoptimized content, avatars would still look just as pretty. Problem solved before it ever became a problem.

OK.. discussion derailed anyway so might just as well continue in this one like you said :matte-motes-grin:

 

I agree with you. Of course it affects me too. But I already had the tools to make it better for me (impostors, derender). Now there are even more tools. I'm not against the jellydolls (even if this will not fix the real problem). The only thing I don't like is to hear from people not seeing me and getting a popup as if that is something that should be important to me.

Of course there should be things optimized. If you look at items in my marketplace you even see that all the textures I sell have 2 resolutions with a warning to use the right one according to circumstances. I'm well aware of it and try to avoid the heavier stuff.

Thing is... I, and with me others, have a lot of items I like and paid a lot of money for in the past. There are items among those that I still love to wear. If LL would send me money to replace them for less heavy versions somewhere then I would love to (like: show us the item you want to buy and the item it will replace. If it's close enough we will get you the new item and we will destroy the old ones (copies and all) that you might have). Of course they will not do that because they want to make money, not lose it

LL made money before and they didn't care then and they still don't care. Instead of fixing the problem how you said it, they come with the jellydolls, still not enforcing lower impact items. They know they will make less money if some of the beautiful high impact items are no longer sold that way. Instead they make it sound as they have the solution: Turn everybody into colored blobs. Nothing against it as it is optional to use... but a crap solution to the real problem.

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Perrie Juran wrote:

I don't complain about other people's computers.

I complain about people with low end computers who complain that SL runs like crapola for them.

(Actually I don't complain.  I just get tired of the complaints.  And I marvel at peoples expectations from over glorified word processors.)


I firmly agree that hardware requirements exist for a reason, but my point is that SL's hardware requirements are unreasonably high, the person complaining about your draw weight might have a good computer capable of running any modern videogame just fine. They just want SL to run better, and they have every reason to expect it to. That's why LL's ham-fisted "fix" for this problem is so backwards. It makes it more obvious whose avatars are lagging everyone else down, making them to the villains to those around them. Afterall, no one wants low framerates, but they also don't want an ugly, brightly coloured pixel mess on their screen.

Meanwhile, how many of the people with those avatars would even know why their avatars are a problem or how to fix it without sacrificing their appearance? They're not to blame, they just want to enjoy SL like everyone else.

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It's not just low-end PCs.

My PC, for example, crushes the minimum spec and considerably exceeds the recommended spec. More RAM, faster CPU, several generations of graphics card. Nowhere hear high-end gaming, but pretty decent. It runs relatively recent titles at satisfactory quality and speed. It is not a 'glorified word processor'. 

SL can still bring it to a grinding halt.

Recently I've been running with considerably reduced graphics quality to improve frame-rate. It helps a lot in busy areas. Heavily loaded avatars certainly make a difference. And some people are happy to run around wearing everything but the kitchen sink. Some are aware of it, some aren't. An acquaintance of mine, knowing Avatar Complexity is now an issue, switched her 450K+ avatar for... a 720K+ avatar.

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