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indeed, the thrust is trust

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Hey *****, I accidently sold that Land through the Group, did you happen to get about  20,000L$

Yes I did, ***** paid you 20,000L$

 

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(Before I read the rest of the responses .. my L$2)

Trust, as you phrased it, can only be held in a positive sense. While true, this is only half the equation. There are people I know that I completely trust .. to do wrong.

Trust, in my estimation, is the belief that someone will behave in a particular way .. and further that belief is reinforced by their actions following the path you expected. Trust thus comes from guessing what someone will do (or expecting them to do something) and then being proved right. At such time as they start doing different than you expected or predicted then your trust is broken.

Is having your trust broken always a bad thing? Not at all. If you have come to trust that someone will always hurt you, and then over time you realize they don't behave that way anymore, the trust in their prior behavior is lost .. and you can begin to gain a new trust in their new behavior.

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Wildcat Furse wrote:

 

Storm Clarence wrote:
In your opinion how does one earn your trust?

 

give them no reason not to trust me ..... *meows*

 

There ya go Wildcat. You behave in predictable ways, using reasonable judgement and making sound decisions .. and you do what you say you are going to do. Doing or saying things opposite of what is anticipated or expected serves to weaken trust.

 

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

(Before I read the rest of the responses .. my L$2)

Trust, as you phrased it, can only be held in a positive sense. While true, this is only half the equation. There are people I know that I completely trust .. to do wrong.

Trust, in my estimation, is the belief that someone will behave in a particular way .. and further that belief is reinforced by their actions following the path you expected. Trust thus comes from guessing what someone will do (or expecting them to do something) and then being proved right. At such time as they start doing different than you expected or predicted then your trust is broken.

Is having your trust broken always a bad thing? Not at all. If you have come to trust that someone will always hurt you, and then over time you realize they don't behave that way anymore, the trust in their prior behavior is lost .. and you can begin to gain a new trust in their new behavior.

 

I am not so sure I subscribe to trust being the belief that someone will behave in a particular way - it implies they will only *say* things that are expected.  I trust my friends to tell me thing that I don't expect; to not be obsequious.  When a 'friend' tells me something I don't want, or like to hear - the trust bond grows a little stronger.  I don't want sycophants - I want friendships.  

I agree that people can gain or earn a new trust, but it is much harder the second or third time.  Once a trust is broken it is rare that a relationship survives - as those individuals eventually drift apart.

 

Can we respect someone and yet not trust that person?

 

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Storm Clarence wrote:

I am not so sure I subscribe to trust being the belief that someone will behave in a particular way - it implies they will only *say* things that are expected.  I trust my friends to tell me thing that I don't expect; to not be obsequious.  When a 'friend' tells me something I don't want, or like to hear - the trust bond grows a little stronger.  I don't want sycophants - I want friendships. 

 

Good point. When someone does the "right" thing (rather than the easy thing), that also helps build positive trust. As for speech being different than behavior .. "Actions speak louder than words". However when they are in opposition to each other that can decrease trust in both. (And usually builds a form of trust that they will not do what they say.)

 


Storm Clarence wrote:

I agree that people can gain or earn a new trust, but it is much harder the second or third time.  Once a trust is broken it is rare that a relationship survives - as those individuals eventually drift apart.

Can we respect someone and yet not trust that person? 

i daresay that many people had a measure of respect for Stalin, but didn't trust him for a second. So yeah, I think it's possible.

 

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Storm Clarence wrote:


Can we respect someone and yet not trust that person?

 

Yes I think we can respect someone without necessarily trusting their motives....but it depends what we want to trust them with.  Can we trust that they will always rise above any petty squabbles and grievances and leave their egos at the door? Then IMO the answer is no.  Everyone has their *off * days don't they?  Can we trust them with our lives? Of course not.....that level of trust has to be reserved for only our closest friends and family members.....and even then it would be questionable.

 

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

 

Storm Clarence wrote:

I agree that people can gain or earn a new trust, but it is much harder the second or third time.  Once a trust is broken it is rare that a relationship survives - as those individuals eventually drift apart.

Can we respect someone and yet not trust that person? 

i daresay that many people had a measure of respect for Stalin, but didn't trust him for a second. So yeah, I think it's possible.

 

Wouldn't that be fear, not respect?  Fear can be a huge motivator to act or to not act.

 

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

 

i daresay that many people had a measure of
respect
for Stalin, but didn't trust him for a second. So yeah, I think it's possible.

 

 

Might the correct word here be 'admire' rather than 'respect.'  I might admire someone's ability as an athlete but have no respect for them as a person.

 

I did once hear one of my Employers, and he was also the owner of the company, ask us in a Sales Meeting, "if we respected him."  It caused quite an uneasy stir and several awkward moments of silence because none of us trusted him.  Finally some one spoke up and said, "of course we respect that you are the owner of the company. "

It was perhaps the single most awkward moment I have ever witnessed  in a business meeting.  Needless to say I don't work there anymore.  As it turned out, average life expectancy of an employee with him was less than 6 months.

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@Perrie  Which brings us to another dynamic that comes into play in any relationship: can we trust someone we do not like, but respect?  I can mix these three words and still ask the same question.  Can we like someone we do no trust or respect?  

 

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Venus Petrov wrote:

Wouldn't that be fear, not respect?  Fear can be a huge motivator to act or to not act. 

 

I'll try an example that's a bit closer to everyone's memory ... Reagan respected Gorbachev, but did not trust him. Kruschev respected Kennedy (especially after Kennedy faced him down over the missiles in Cuba), and perhaps even trusted him to act a certain way ... but it was clear that Kruschev gained a whole new level of trust and respect AFTER that showdown too.

I think fear is more an instinctual or personal safety emotion than trust and respect, which seem to me to be more aligned with intellectual decisions.

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Storm Clarence wrote:

@Perrie  Which brings us to another dynamic that comes into play in any relationship: can we trust someone we do not like, but respect?  I can mix these three words and still ask the same question.  Can we like someone we do no trust or respect?  

 

 

The fine nuances of meaning we assign to words can and does make communicating fun.  I knew someone who insisted that the word 'love' should only be applied to animate objects and 'like' to inanimate objects.  To which I responded that it was time for me to go 'make like' to my wife.

It also reminds me of George Carlin on borderline words, "You can **bleep** your finger but you can not finger your **bleep**.

I really can't think of anyone whom i did notrespect or trust that I liked.

 

ETA for clarity

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Perhaps...when thinking about what I wrote, I thought of all of those who suffered under Stalin (as you used the phrase 'many people').  Whatever respect they may have had for the man was borne of fear.  So, fear was the underlying motivator that led them to respect him (in a way).

Not quite the same as respecting a favorite college professor.

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Ah ..got it..  this could also be mixed into the next question :  Can we like do so.... errr.. uh oh ... no.. better not ask and trust to respect the moderator(s) .. :smileyindifferent:

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<thread-jack>

i would love to see someone set up a place where we could post all the **bleeped** words in these Fora as we encounter them.

</thread-jack>

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I trust my own instinct and intuition to enable me to read someone's character. I can then adjust my behaviour and respond towards them accordingly. This way I don't need to trust someone in order to get by in SL. Obviously, if I feel I am able to trust them then all well and good.

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Venus Petrov wrote:

Perhaps...when thinking about what I wrote, I thought of all of those who suffered under Stalin (as you used the phrase 'many people').  Whatever respect they may have had for the man was borne of fear.  So, fear was the underlying motivator that led them to respect him (in a way).

Not quite the same as respecting a favorite college professor.

Very true. It is often said that detectives that chase and capture notorious criminals also gain a measure of respect for them. But again, it is a very negative form of respect. Much as one must respect the sharp edge of a Katana. (Especially when that's the edge facing you.)

 

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Storm:  I trusted them to behave like a business.  To sell A and deliver A.  To make the grid stable and functional.  To keep the changes to society as small as possible so interpersonal business could operate, which provides the funds necessary to then give funds to LL for its products. To operate its entertainment product like an entertainment product.  To even obey US commercial law, getting right down to the absolute minimum expectations.

LL has done none of these things.  Their business decisions have been ruinous.  They repeatedly sell A but fail to deliver.  The grid's functionality has been stuck at Broken since day one.  Every change LL implements seems to be designed to make customers as outraged as possible yet deliver little of substance, driving them and their money away.  We can't even expect to own the land we paid thousands of dollars for last year, even though we have reciepts and LL itself said we own it.

And without my trust, you can count on my rather fat wallet staying as shut as possible.  There are better things to spend it on then feeding LL's incompetence.  While it is possible for me to change my mind on this, it'll take an outstanding admission from the new CEO and an abrupt change of course before I'll consider it.

 

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Ian Undercroft wrote:

I trust my own instinct and intuition to enable me to read someone's character. I can then adjust my behaviour and respond towards them accordingly. This way I don't need to trust someone in order to get by in SL. Obviously, if I feel I am able to trust them then all well and good.

 

I agree with this.  This is somewhat how I approach SL.

I find myself a little more 'rich' when I both win trust and give trust in relationships; more than liking or respecting.   

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An interesting case is the one from Patty Hearst, she was kidnapped by the SLA, mostlikely in the beginning she didn't trust, nor respected, nor had sympathy for her kidnappers .... 2 months later she joined the SLA and took part in a bankrobbery .....*meows*

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Storm Clarence wrote:

@Perrie  Which brings us to another dynamic that comes into play in any relationship: can we trust someone we do not like, but respect?  I can mix these three words and still ask the same question.  Can we like someone we do no trust or respect?  

 

Speaking for myself, I can say sort of say yes with qualifications.  I definitely like some that I do not trust.  That is part of the appeal of the rogue.  And I might grudgingly respect someone that I do not particularly like or trust..

 

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Trust for me means that I am reasonably certain I will not get harmed intentionally. It's also very much a continuum for me. In RL, I'd trust differently and on different criteria than in SL.

Truth on the other hand has nothing to do with trust. By default I don't believe anything is true, unless I can verify it myself. That does not imply the belief everyone is lying - it just means I take things at face value. If I care enough, I'll verify. Even if I trust someone implicitly, I'd still not take anything they say as truth. Even what _I_ believe to be the truth may, in the future, be invalidated and become untrue.

Applied to SL, it's simple: I take everyone at face value. And I trust to some degree, more or less trusting my intuition.

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Wilhiam Hydraconis wrote:

Well.. I dunno .. maybe I myself am not sure where this thread is heading. :smileyindifferent:

I will trust you to take this thread where you would like.  It is an open thread discussing trust.  Where would you like to go with it?

 

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