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15 minutes ago, SiennaKeti said:

More land owners or trusted brands like firestorm or estate companies should think about making traffic games. 

Avoiding traffic games falls under the general strategy of remaining a trusted brand.

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I wonder where that income went, the lost income, that people lost in the "hack", that hack that lost a huge number of people a huge amount of income, in L$.  Where did those L$ go.  because

Tinies use 7Seas to run contests, which is a completely different system. It's not a make-money-fast game, as it doesn't give out money at all. It gives out fish (possibly including special custom fis

Avoiding traffic games falls under the general strategy of remaining a trusted brand.

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17 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Avoiding traffic games falls under the general strategy of remaining a trusted brand.

Coffee I find it funny you saying that and you on overall being nowdays on forum so much against games that promote or reward traffic on lands when in 2018 you opened a topic with an idea that included rewarding people for visiting lands.

:S (that doesn't age well)

On 7/15/2018 at 7:24 PM, Coffee Pancake said:

A little reward can go a long way.

  • Residents can exchange GEMS between each other in the same was as L$, this includes offering scripted interfaces, vendors, selling time and services, everything they do with L$ now.
  • Rewarding visitors to your parcel or event, or for playing your game.
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3 hours ago, Wili Clip said:

Coffee I find it funny you saying that and you on overall being nowdays on forum so much against games that promote or reward traffic on lands when in 2018 you opened a topic with an idea that included rewarding people for visiting lands.

:S (that doesn't age well)

She already referenced that herself in recent post.  

20 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Free L$ will always be gamed.

If daily login/activity bonuses weren't exchangeable for real currency that would be fine, hence my super popular suggestion of a secondary in game only currency.

https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/424997-should-sl-have-a-secondary-100-in-game-currency/

 

Although it would be really nice if more was made of rez days, even if it was just a cake emoji next to your username everywhere on that day. Anything that drives positive interaction is a good thing IMO.

The difference being she was discussing an entirely different thing.  Not something to game traffic.  

Nice try though.

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While I will back Wili in regards to hacks, as people who hack into servers have various motives. Maybe it is for money, maybe they want to cause as much chaos as possible. I know there are people who hack into servers and just wipe everything, maybe after they take a copy of the database for themself.

However, something is fishy (no pun intended, or maybe pun intended. Yes pun intended.) about all this. Something smells of subtle advertising, considering how active Wili has been on the forums lately, and then suddenly this thread gets necro bumped. Could be a coincidence, but feels suspicious to me.

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42 minutes ago, Chaser Zaks said:

While I will back Wili in regards to hacks, as people who hack into servers have various motives. Maybe it is for money, maybe they want to cause as much chaos as possible. I know there are people who hack into servers and just wipe everything, maybe after they take a copy of the database for themself.

However, something is fishy (no pun intended, or maybe pun intended. Yes pun intended.) about all this. Something smells of subtle advertising, considering how active Wili has been on the forums lately, and then suddenly this thread gets necro bumped. Could be a coincidence, but feels suspicious to me.

You aren't the only one. And now he's trying to dig up dirt on other posters. Real classy guy.

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1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

The difference being she was discussing an entirely different thing.  Not something to game traffic.  

It was more ambitious than that, but (as I understand it) among its applications venues could have rewarded visitors with GEMS, something of purely in-game value, rather than the RL-convertible L$. Those visitors would be incentivized by the purely in-game value of GEMS, rather than L$s. And I'd expect the whole infrastructure for GEMS transactions, including visitor rewarding devices, would be offered on a GEMS marketplace by GEMS-incentivized souls.

If such a thing worked, it would be especially threatening to businesses dependent on L$-camping-based traffic gaming.

The GEMS idea presented an interesting thought experiment: how would a virtual world economy behave with two currencies, one RL-convertible and the other not. This would be especially interesting if those currencies were somehow completely impossible to exchange even under the table--which is totally not how markets work—which is I think the fatal flaw.

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34 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

It was more ambitious than that, but (as I understand it) among its applications venues could have rewarded visitors with GEMS, something of purely in-game value, rather than the RL-convertible L$. Those visitors would be incentivized by the purely in-game value of GEMS, rather than L$s. And I'd expect the whole infrastructure for GEMS transactions, including visitor rewarding devices, would be offered on a GEMS marketplace by GEMS-incentivized souls.

If such a thing worked, it would be especially threatening to businesses dependent on L$-camping-based traffic gaming.

The GEMS idea presented an interesting thought experiment: how would a virtual world economy behave with two currencies, one RL-convertible and the other not. This would be especially interesting if those currencies were somehow completely impossible to exchange even under the table--which is totally not how markets work—which is I think the fatal flaw.

The idea of exchanging the GEMS for product doesn't seem like such a bad idea to me.  Perhaps limiting their collection to residents under a certain age?  People under 90 or 120 days?  It would get them out to different places and stores could have specific items available to trade for GEMS?  Years ago, Tuli had a complete set of things for newer residents.  There was an eye creator that did the same thing.  Those items were free at the time.  Having to actually DO something to earn GEMS makes more sense to me than a handout of Ls.  When you first start, you could be handed a list of places to go to collect GEMS.  

As there is no real "value", I don't see people creating an army of alts to collect them.

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8 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

The idea of exchanging the GEMS for product doesn't seem like such a bad idea to me.

I think.. stressing a new player with a GEMS system or any other system like lucky board or champing chair reward feels unwelcoming (If its a new player its extra unwelcoming because SL does not have a beginner friendly interface).

If you have a free gift give it directly. This will most likely help your reputation while secondary one might harm it if system is frustrating and boring.

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38 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

The GEMS idea presented an interesting thought experiment: how would a virtual world economy behave with two currencies, one RL-convertible and the other not. This would be especially interesting if those currencies were somehow completely impossible to exchange even under the table--which is totally not how markets work—which is I think the fatal flaw.

GEMS being of value to some people was part of the idea though.

Land owner hands in 1,000,000,000 GEMS to LL .. and they get a trivial discount off a months Tier.

That would give GEMS a tiny tradable value in L$, so if there wasn't anything in the GEM economy that interested someone who had collected a lot, there would always be a land owner vendor offering to exchange them for a few L$. 

The link between GEMS and tier discount would take some working out (and require internal LL data), as it was intended for that be the least interesting option for those with GEMS to burn & laughably impractical to try and farm directly.

6 hours ago, Wili Clip said:

Coffee I find it funny you saying that and you on overall being nowdays on forum so much against games that promote or reward traffic on lands when in 2018 you opened a topic with an idea that included rewarding people for visiting lands.

:S (that doesn't age well)

Yes, and it would make businesses like yours expensive from a land owner perspective and sink that entire shady sector of the L$ economy while providing the same in world benefits to actual users.

There would be no directly free L$ in SL, EVER, and no need for srs bizness sneks concocting elaborate schemes to make a buck on every angle.

Gambling with enough extra steps to side step skill gaming rules is still gambling and predatory.

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10 minutes ago, RunawayBunny said:

I think.. stressing a new player with a GEMS system or any other system like lucky board or champing chair reward feels unwelcoming (If its a new player its extra unwelcoming because SL does not have a beginner friendly interface).

If you have a free gift give it directly. This will most likely help your reputation while secondary one might harm it if system is frustrating and boring.

I'm not sure how it would be stressing if it's not required which it shouldn't be.  Of course there are gifts they can get.  The trading of GEMS.for a specific product would be something to DO if they chose to do it.  Some people would like feeling they're earning an item as opposed to a handout or paying for Lindens.

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14 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Land owner hands in 1,000,000,000 GEMS to LL .. and they get a trivial discount off a months Tier.

How this will benefit LL? Land owner gives away service for free and LL has to offer discount for this free reward. Even it is trivial it is still discount. LL income relies on buying L$ and selling L$. Secondary currency type GEMS will limit L$ amount flowing in system. Perhaps I got the idea wrong (totally possible due lack of my English knowledge.)

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6 minutes ago, RunawayBunny said:

How this will benefit LL? Land owner gives away service for free and LL has to offer discount for this free reward. Even it is trivial it is still discount. LL income relies on buying L$ and selling L$. Secondary currency type GEMS will limit L$ amount flowing in system. Perhaps I got the idea wrong (totally possible due lack of my English knowledge.)

It also relies on people staying in the game and spending RL money.  Giving new residents an incentive at the beginning might keep some of those people around and more interested in becoming premium or at the least, purchasing Ls.  A slight reduction in tier on turned in GEMS would probably not impact LL as much as you would think.  Less tier paid for one region, someone might think of getting another.  It won't impact the usual flow of Ls either.  GEMS are only given out to NEW residents under a specified age be it 90 or 120 days.  By that time, they've probably decided to either leave or move up to the next level.  Buy Lindens or go premium.  

Like I mentioned, Tuli used to hand out a lovely skin, shape, eyes, hair to residents under 30 days old.  It wasn't like the ancient skins passed out at freebie places.  It was quality.  A store like Glam Affair or Blueberry having a quality piece payable in GEMS benefits both the new user  and the store as that user may return with Ls to spend at a later date.

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1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

It was more ambitious than that, but (as I understand it) among its applications venues could have rewarded visitors with GEMS, something of purely in-game value, rather than the RL-convertible L$. Those visitors would be incentivized by the purely in-game value of GEMS, rather than L$s. And I'd expect the whole infrastructure for GEMS transactions, including visitor rewarding devices, would be offered on a GEMS marketplace by GEMS-incentivized souls.

If such a thing worked, it would be especially threatening to businesses dependent on L$-camping-based traffic gaming.

The GEMS idea presented an interesting thought experiment: how would a virtual world economy behave with two currencies, one RL-convertible and the other not. This would be especially interesting if those currencies were somehow completely impossible to exchange even under the table--which is totally not how markets work—which is I think the fatal flaw.

It would not work. Because why would anyone want GEMS when they have L$ while with GEMS they can not do anything. If it has no value no one would use it. And if she wanted to make it exchangeable for L$ - that is not allowed by LL.

And also what RunawayBunny said. GEMS don't make sense. I only mentioned Coffee's post because she was talking about rewarding people for visiting the parcel, events or playing a game which is the same thing that happen when players are rewarded L$ for those things that she is so opposed to. Its contradictory sorry to say. :)

And this is not dirt at all its just a bit contradictory which as I mentioned find a bit funny. But then everyone has rights to change opinion on things through years. So is fine.

 

Edited by Wili Clip
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2 minutes ago, Wili Clip said:

It would not work. Because why would anyone want GEMS when they have L$ while with GEMS they can not do anything. If it has no value no one would use it. And if she wanted to make it exchangeable for L$ - that is not allowed by LL.

You missed the part about this being a proposal for something LL WOULD HANDLE.

GEMS would be an official second currency with a duplication of the L$ architecture, missing only a direct way to sell them for real money.

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36 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Giving new residents an incentive at the beginning might keep some of those people around..

The only way to do that is to give/reward new players L$ directly or give them fun ways for them to earn it. Which my game system successfully do for already 10 years and we became the biggest and most supported community in SL with +44 000 members in our main group for that exact reason. Our games benefit SL and players user retention. More people stay in SL and more people spend their L$ for virtual products.

When people can do fun and social activities in SL to earn L$ to spend them for whatever they want why would they be doing that for something else that they get and that severely limits their choices of what they can consume it for? It doesn't make sense.

And also the Linden Lab is very strict about L$ being the only virtual currency that can exist and that can be used in SL. Coffee or Rowan your idea is cute but it is also too complicated to work and it is also infriging on SL TOS. People like easy to understand and straightforward things and especially in SL.

Edited by Wili Clip
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3 minutes ago, Wili Clip said:

The only way to do that is to give/reward new players L$ directly or give them fun ways for them to earn it. Which my game system successfully do for already 10 years and we became the biggest and most supported community in SL with +44 000 members in our main group for that exact reason. Our games benefit SL and players user retention. More people stay in SL and more people spend their L$ for virtual products.

When people can do fun and social activities in SL to earn L$ to spend them for whatever they want why would they be doing that for something else that limits their choices of what they can consume it for? It doesn't make sense.

And also the Linden Lab is very strict about L$ being the only virtual currency that can exist and that can be used in SL. Coffee or Rowan your idea is cute but it is also too complicated to work. People like easy to understand and straightforward things and especially in SL.

I highly doubt LL would promote your traffic game to new residents.  They, themselves, would handle the GEMS so its not some other schemer trying to make a buck.  Aside from implementation, I don't see a down side.  As has been said by countless people,  most of the places that use your system aren't places I'd want to shop.  We ALL know it's less about community to most who use it and more about traffic as your own forum signature states.

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23 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

You missed the part about this being a proposal for something LL WOULD HANDLE.

GEMS would be an official second currency with a duplication of the L$ architecture, missing only a direct way to sell them for real money.

When they can not find time or resources to implement latest communication technology that other social media platforms use I don't see LL changing or duplicating their whole infrastructure to implement something that just makes things more complex and harder to understand for average consumer.

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8 minutes ago, Wili Clip said:

When they can not find time or resources to implement latest communication technology that other social media platforms use I don't see LL changing or duplicating their whole infrastructure to implement something that just makes things more complex and harder to understand for average consumer.

Oh I get it now. It's ok for you to do it but not anyone else.

There is a huge difference between ignorance and stupidity. Most people are neither.

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11 minutes ago, Wili Clip said:

When they can not find time or resources to implement latest communication technology that other social media platforms use I don't see LL changing or duplicating their whole infrastructure to implement something that just makes things more complex and harder to understand for average consumer.

Wouldn't actually be that hard. They give Gems out at linden realms but those are redeemable for Ls.  Hence, people cheat.  GEMS for product with a specific avatar age is perfect.  No use creating alts as the GEMS have no intrinsic value.  Quality stores don't need the traffic so that too is irrelevant.

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15 minutes ago, Wili Clip said:

The only way to do that is to give/reward new players L$ directly

So people like you can farm it making alts or swoop in like a Nigerian prince offering newbies a way to turn their pitiful start up L$ into piles of L$ though the magic of fish ... perhaps using leverage so they can afford your extra special products, saddled with debt right from the start.

15 minutes ago, Wili Clip said:

Coffee or Rowan your idea is cute but it is also too complicated to work and it is also infriging on SL TOS. 

As it would be run by LL, I'm sure they would update their own ToS to include there own secondary currency.

9 minutes ago, Wili Clip said:

When they can not find time or resources to implement latest communication technology that other social media platforms

They create a database field. Copy paste all L$ code, rename L$ to G$. 

The hard part is building a fun incentives structure and I'm sure we would all be very helpful dreaming up weird and wonderful things users can get a few GEMS for.

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50 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

As has been said by countless people,  most of the places that use your system aren't places I'd want to shop.  We ALL know it's less about community to most who use it and more about traffic as your own forum signature states.

There are some people that clearly don't know me and don't like me because the way I express myself is a bit different than what most people expect or are used to - that doesn't make me a bad guy. But that is not my problem.

Most people that form and express an opinion about our game systems haven't even tried them themselves. So the information that they post and spread is not true. How can you talk about something that you don't have a direct experience with?

If you would have tried my game systems you would quickly see that they're not even used by store owners and no one uses it for the purpose of increasing sales.. They're not for that. Our games are used by landowners who want to bring some people to their lands to showcase what they do. Our game systems are used to build communities and our own gaming community is a showcase and an example of how important the communities are in Second Life.

Second Life is about people and social places before everything else. Yes most of my games marketing material emphasizes with big letters - INCREASE TRAFFIC but that does not mean that the sole purpose of the games is that. Most lands in SL struggle with getting real people on their land. This is a real problem because SL is so big and number of active users in SL is too small for the size of SL. Our games help direct people at very low cost. What happens is that landowners try our system and they learn about our community and they like it and they stay to support it.

What most people on this forum are writing about my game systems and about me is very far from reality. And like I said so many times before on forum just anyone can say anything but that does not make it true even if a lot of people repeat it or keep repeating it. The reality is what my customers experience and learn about when they actually use my systems.

Reality is that we are the biggest gaming community in Second Life and we're just going to grow bigger and stronger. We never needed and don't need Linden Lab to promote us. Some commenters of my products on this forum are completely detached from what the reality is around my games and that is because they never even tried to play them and have completely no experience with it.

In business growth and statistics and in terms of what a demand for specific service or product is and the only important thing are the numbers and not the opinion of few individuals.  And we have numbers and numbers don't lie.

 

Edited by Wili Clip
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33 minutes ago, Wili Clip said:

There are some people that clearly don't know me and don't like me because the way I express myself is a bit different than what most people expect or are used to - that doesn't make me a bad guy. But that is not my problem.

People who know me for a longer time - like me and know I am dependable and that they can trust me.

Its just the 1st impression that people get of me when they 1st meet me that is problematic 😁
Because I myself don't put any effort in trying to make a good 1st impression on anyone. I am just me. Always the same and I like being like that.

Maybe it is my forum avatar picture! \O.. O/
Yea the king frog looks very fishy! 😁

Edited by Wili Clip
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