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Cori Muir

When Customer Posts Incorrect Review

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I have to say this will be partially venting and also requesting a new item added to drop down to flag a bad review.  I just has a customer post a review, angry that our mesh does not work with mesh bodies, when it's clearly marked that it works with Classic Avatars (Not to mention, no where in our verbiage does it state compatibility with any mesh body).

At current there is no drop down selection to point this out. The only thing I could do was label them as flame or hate speech, which isn't exactly correct.  We desperately need something like, incorrect review type or something like that. Also the ability to remove a few of these ourselves wouldn't hurt either. Not, EVERY review, but having 3 or 4 to use a month, would be helpful for when you have these times where your customers don't read. 

Could we make that text a bit bigger even? Classic and Mesh? And a colorful icon?

 

Thanks for allowing the ramble and thanks for the help in advance.

 

(PS I did add a note to specifically say we're not compatible, but that little icon should be enough. Only thing I can think of is make it better. Having to add that to each and every entry is even more taxing, on an already taxing process for adding things to your store.)

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There's already a process via support to have incorrect reviews removed. Allowing merchants to remove any of their own would be an instant recipe for abuse. I often wonder what the point of leaving reviews on other sites is where the site owner has to approve the review. How many valid but negative ones make it through?

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That's why I said a few, I don't believe all should be able to be removed for the reason you said but we are on the bad side of the power here as merchants. Being that is you have a few folk that decide they don't like you and go nuts with the bad reviews ( had that happen to a friend with an SL stalker) it's very stressful until they can take it down. They are quick to remove, but you're a store owner, it's stressful, lol.

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I'd flag it using 'off subject posting' since she clearly is talking about using a classic avatar mesh dress with a mesh body   You can comment on the review pointing that out if you haven't already done so.

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

I'd flag it using 'off subject posting' since she clearly is talking about using a classic avatar mesh dress with a mesh body   You can comment on the review pointing that out if you haven't already done so.

Exactly. Complaining because the product IS exactly as described serves no purpose and LL does a good job removing those.

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Ok, in the same context of getting a review flagged for 'not liking it' because it is what it is, here's an example.

 


Listing Category:
»
»

Title:
Wall Cabinet Home Decor

Description:

This is a textured, low 1Li wall decor for your home, office, etc - for low Li land

If you're not happy with this product, contact me in-game first before leaving a review.

 So I left a review stating my dis-satisfaction with the item, which was NOT a cabinet, it was NOT home decor, and amounted to having a copyrighted texture on a flat prim. It was a picture of a cabinet.

Is this an incorrect review now? What are reviews for? Reviews are to praise or fault a product in a constructively critical way - or there is no point to having a review system.

In this case, the merchant immediately responded to the review scolding me for leaving a review without contacting her in-game first.

Though I feel that is unreasonable, as contacting a seller in-game should be for product deficiencies, I gave her a chance in-game.

Her response to the initial review and in-game was in short "I told you what the product was, and I told you to contact me ingame if you had any problems with it".

That simply isn't a fair system because the review was a review.

An incorrect review can only be complaints about it being not copy/mod, or if something went wrong and an in-game response from the seller was ignored, etc.

Stating how you are disappointed in the product or how it was represented is fair, and sellers should take the feedback for what it is and 1) either discontinue such misleading products 2) improve the product to improve the review 3) don't threaten, coerce or get angry at buyers who leave less than flattering reviews 4) don't auto-ban customers that give you critical feedback cuz you dont like it

There are two sides to this.

I would love to review all the products I come across from $0L to $3000+L purchases, but so far, if you leave anything less than a 5 star review, you're asking for a whole lotta trouble - including threats for reporting you to Linden Labs for alleged "anti-competitive" behaviour.

So now we have no reviews, or only 5 star reviews, because people are probably afraid to do so - so then why have the review process there then?

Do I get 0 reviews on some items because 1) the product is very bad 2) the product is acceptable 3) people are afraid to leave less than 5 stars cuz I might bite their head off?

Go to Yelp and see what happens there. Its only 1 star reviews (someone's extremely pissed) or 5 stars (someone's extremely pleased or is fake review)

There will probably be more discussion on these topics in the future, as the SLMP needs a serious revamp, from market listing practices to seller/buy attitudes and education.

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We often find the review process a great way gauge the success of an item AND to understand the customers' perception of my marketing presentation.  We create marketing images for a few businesses and have used merchant and customer input to better design them for emphasizing the data which has been misunderstood in the past.  Relying on "small font" data in a listing alone does not seems to work as well as also incorporating it in the images and in the features section of the listing.

I always offer a full refund for any unhappy customers, without regard to the validity of their claims. (Many times I send the Lindens with a message of hope that they will return one day and find something else more to their liking, or at least walk away from this transaction with a positive impression)  Marketing in RL teaches us that a truly angry/sad customer is heard by at least 10 times more people than a happy one.  

Reply to the erroneous reviews gently and without anger. EXAMPLE:  "I am so sorry that you misunderstood the listing.  Please note that the ad did clearly state this product was for XXXXX bodies only, but we understand how you could have missed that information in the excitement of shopping.  We are limited to the Marketplace format and have no power over making certain information appear in larger typefaces or bolder print.  Please read listing more carefully in the future to keep your shopping experiences happy ones, and we will do all we can to help. You are important to us."

 

Namaste

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See that's a bit different than what happened with mine. I didn't misrepresent anything and I always try to contact the seller before I leave a review because as you know when creating clothes or anything, sometimes people are tired and may forget to put your (cabinet) in the box. You have to give them a chance to correct it before you leave a review. We're not taking about those reviews that say, hey, I hate this dress, those I can take. It's when accused of doing something I didn't do, like with this particular situation. Or I had once forgotten to include an alpha and I got a review saying I was selling fake clothes. When had they simply contacted me, I could have corrected that. I have has other contact me and I often give them a freebie if they catch something like that.

Creators get extremely frustrated with reviews that have nothing to do with quality, just crazy gibberish. Not saying that's what you did, but constructive criticism is ALWAYS welcome.

But my original post was just mostly needing to vent. All handled now :)

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I also do customer service and marketing IRL but it's a great bit different here, given how SLMP is set up and that we are a very small team. IRL I work for one of the largest companies in the world, with millions of people for back up, and lots of ability to correct incorrect reviews or simply directing them to where they can voice their grievances (non quality related).

Also able to make a font bigger try moving it even. I do wish our SLMP was even more like say EtSy or Shopify or even Word press, then we could have a bit more control ice appearance etc. Right now all I have thought to do is make sure I actually use the SL graphic for classic avatars on the actual product images and automate that process in Photoshop just to make life easier.

But thank you, always good to see what others are doing. I learn something new everyday, but will still need to vent from time to time, just being human,

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With SLexchange and then XStreet, we did have the ability to format and include links in listings. But Pink was all about enforcing conformity in all things. Restrictions have loosened up in several ways , such as number of images (we were limted to 8, even on a large home with many rooms), but still no easy way to format.

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I think a huge part of the problem is LL themselves, and the fact that they really haven't worked on MP much, at all, over the last few years(as compared to some other areas of sl, that is).

Although you do check off the "works with classic avatars" just as you should when you create the listing, you're still bound to run into some issues with folks new to sl. Why? Because LL has in the past, wrongly, said that any avatar that comes with the sl account, is a "classic" avatar. That's not actually correct, though. The newer sl avs, for example, are mesh avs, and therefore not compatible with a great deal of stuff others make and sell. So, new folks are entirely likely to see what they have as a "standard" or "classic" av, straight out of the box, so to speak...when it's more likely to not be, than it is TO be. Make sense? No, it doens't, it's about as clear as mud, and that mud is precisely what LL has left new folks to sl, to work with. Stupid, isn't it?

If LL were more clear on their terminology, and helping new(er) residents in sl out, we wouldn't run into nearly as much confusion. When you add in the language barriers that often exist, you have an even bigger mess. Of course it's not the merchants' fault, but rather, LL's. Unfortunately, the merchants are the ones left to create clarity, clean up confusion, and try and help new residents out.

Then again, it miffs me more than just a little bit that LL is far from transparent, and seems to enjoy creating confusion..but that's just *my* issue, lol.

For now, I would simpyl add text to all of your listings to ensure it is as clear as possible..."These items do NOT work with Mesh Avatars" or "These items are NOT designed for Mesh Avatars".  Something along those lines, might help a bit.(I'm sure you have, but, just in case you haven't, lol). Because using classic, or standard, as a means to describe what type of avatar the clothign is designed for, is just as likely to create as much confusion as not stating anything at all. It's not your fault, int he elast, it's LL's fault. But, untilt hey fix it(err...*if* they ever do???), we're stuck doing what we can to remedy the problems both before they happen, and after. It sucks, and definitely not worthy of a bad review, but it does happen. 

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Cori Muir wrote:

 I always try to contact the seller before I leave a review because as you know when creating clothes or anything, sometimes people are tired and may forget to put your (cabinet) in the box. You have to give them a chance to correct it before you leave a review.

I review products, I critically appraise them. Apparently many merchants take offense to being critically appraised, and many times go on the war path.

Critically appraising someone's work means I don't have to contact them in-game first, as one merchant thinks she has the right to demand from her customers.

I've had a few reviews bullied right off - but now I'm losing patience I won't tolerate it anymore, and will soon review and say what I want and leave it there. Merchants want to go to war with their customers, well then let's bring it.

If there is an issue with the product, or it seems to not work, etc then yes - do not use the review section to communicate (though many do if the seller takes a week to get back to them), and instead send the seller a notecard or IM inworld.

 

 

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First, I agree a customer is not obligated to contact the seller before leaving a review.  And I congratulate you if you do leave constructive reviews, good or bad.  

I also agree that the review process is pretty meaningless since so many sellers gets bent out of joint if they receive less than five starts.  IMO five stars should only be used for truly exceptional products.

In your example though, it said WALL decor in the description  A 3D cabinet isn't wall decor.  Something like a picture you hang on a wall is wall decor.  Home decor can be anything that decorates a home, even a picture.  

I looked on MP under the categories you gave to see the actual listing and could find no item titled Wall Cabinet Home Decor.  Only items titled TROMPE L'OEIL - WALL CABINET - WALL DECOR.  Those were pretty plain what they are.  Trompe L' oeil being a painting made to look like a 3D object or scene.   Still I saw reviews complaining it wasn't a real cabinet but just a picture of one, though none were yours.  

Long before you came to SL, it was pretty common for people to use pictures of furniture to decorate when they had limited prims.  It isn't so common now, with sculpts and mesh having low LI, but people still do it and there is a market for it. Unfortunately there is no category for 'furniture pictures' and LL insists you put them in a subcategory not the heading category.

In the OP's description it clearly states it's for classic avatars.  So complaining it didn't fit a mesh body is an error on the reviewer's part.  The fact that the reviewer stated it didn't fit a MESH avatar rather then her avatar, tells me she knows the difference between classic and mesh.  

Incorrect reviews can be errors in clearly stated facts not just permissions that the buyer ignored.  A review shouldn't be allowed to bring down the products rating because the buyer is clearly wrong about a fact that was stated in the description IMO.  

 

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

I looked on MP under the categories you gave to see the actual listing and could find no item titled Wall Cabinet Home Decor.

 Probably because I was following the forum guidelines, and not using specific examples in order to protect any merchants involved - that could potentially suffer loss of reputation. Good job, Amethyst.

:: shakes head :: Some of you people here will stop at nothing trying to paint someone out to be a liar and troublemaker, won't you?

What if what you have done has forced me to expose details that will destroy the reputation of said seller, and even get them banned, in order to defend my own?

 


Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

  Still I saw reviews complaining it wasn't a real cabinet but just a picture of one, though none were yours.  

Why were you even trying to find my review? I understand your need to call out someone's bull**bleep** as it presents itself, but apply that across the board - especially to merchants who are in clear contravenence of Marketing guidelines.

1) Selling copyrighted works

2) Listing not categorized correctly

3) Description ambiguous or misleading

4) Keyword spam, eg. 'free, freebie, gift, promo" for non-free items

"cottage,sign,art,photograph,painting,furniture,free,fantasy,castle,kitchen,decor,decal,hippy,shabby,chic,gothic,vampire,shack,medieval,home,group,gift,freebie

 These keywords do not relate to a  wall cabinet, or tromp l'oeile.

 

Now do you want to go deeper? I have IMs that can be very troubling.

Next time, put the spotlight where it belongs - on the actual crooks.


Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

Long before you came to SL, it was pretty common for people to use pictures of furniture to decorate when they had limited prims.  It isn't so common now, with sculpts and mesh having low LI, but people still do it and there is a market for it. Unfortunately there is no category for 'furniture pictures' and LL insists you put them in a subcategory not the heading category.

 That's fine, but now its 2016, and clearly, 6 of 7 reviewers do not agree with you, and how the product is presented.

Just because an item is free, does not mean it is not subject to review or comments from people who attained it.

Trompe L'Oleil is an art piece, an image applied to a 2D medium to represent 3D. Therefore it is not a Wall Cabinet in any manner, should not be categorized as such - It goes under Art.

 


Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

In your example though, it said WALL decor in the description  A 3D cabinet isn't wall decor.  Something like a picture you hang on a wall is wall decor.  Home decor can be anything that decorates a home, even a picture.

 Dear Amethyst, the listing you are using as an example now says

"FREE GIFT Promo - TROMPE L'OEIL - WALL CABINET - WALL DECOR"

The item is categorized under Home & Garden >> Furniture >> Chests & Cabinets

Also, the words in a listing also come up in search, so this item will come up if you're searching 'cabinet'

Why you are even using this example, is beyond me.  You're looking real bad now, and even associated with the item in question, to defend it so rabidly.

The ONUS is on the seller to clarify what the product is or does, and works every day to continue improving the listing as issues come up.

Telling people they are stupid, or harassing them inworld over a review should not be tolerated.

 


Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

Incorrect reviews can be errors in clearly stated facts not just permissions that the buyer ignored.  A review shouldn't be allowed to bring down the products rating because the buyer is clearly wrong about a fact that was stated in the description IMO.
 

 

A product shouldn't be allowed on the marketplace that is ambiguous in nature - we're in 2016 now, so the listing that was acceptable under the category of 'Cabinets" should now be listed under 'art'. In fact, TROMPE L'OEIL is all about ART, and the illusion of 3D it creates. The listing in question is clearly miscategorized and changed immediately. 6 reviewers (0 Stars) out 7 reviewers (of course a 5 star extreme) had a problem with the example you posted. Are they all incorrect?

Also, there are tools in place for the merchant to flag the review if it is in fact not helpful.

 

Sure glad you like Sherlocking, Amethyst - now how about turning that on people who need to be exposed.

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Dear Entity, it's obvious in reading your posts that your main purpose is to stir up reactions....get under people's skin. But you are actually just making the forums more entertaining for a while - until you wear yourself out. But until then keep it coming :smileyvery-happy:

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I wasn't trying to expose you as a liar.  I was curious about the listing so tried to look it up.  Your original post didn't say you made it up.  I used the example because it was similar to the example you gave to illustrate my point.  I never said that was the listing you were talking about and I added that I didn't see your review to make that clear.  It in no way forced you to expose details that will destroy the reputation of a seller.

As far as the reviews of my example, the description clearly stated it was wall decor and Trompe L'oeil.  Those are common terms to describe a 2D picture that gives the illusion of 3D, so IMO those 5 reviewers gave incorrect reviews saying they thought it was 3D furniture.   That was their fault IMO.  The seller isn't responsible for the fact that they didn't understand the terms used as they are common and clear.  Just because the merchant didn't ask to have them removed doesn't make them valid.

I just happen to disagree that a picture of furniture intended to be used as a substitute for 3D furniture should be classified as art.  I've never seen anyone frame one just use it as a substitute for 3D furniture.  

I'm entitled to opinions just as you are.  Just because we disagree doesn't make me "look bad" as you said or give you permission to make derogatory remarks about someone.  If you want to post an opinion don't post if you expect every one to agree with you.

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That's fine. We disagree.

Also on that page (with risk of ad populom fallacy), there are 6 / 7 reviews that feel the same way. So what then? Even if they're wrong - perhaps the merchant needs to rethink her category strategy (and her use of spammed keywords, and her use of copyrighted images) - with 2016 in mind.


Cori Muir wrote:

I also do customer service and marketing IRL but it's a great bit different here, given how SLMP is set up and that we are a very small team. IRL I work for one of the largest companies in the world, with millions of people for back up, and lots of ability to correct incorrect reviews or simply directing them to where they can voice their grievances (non quality related).

Also able to make a font bigger try moving it even. I do wish our SLMP was even more like say EtSy or Shopify or even Word press, then we could have a bit more control ice appearance etc. Right now all I have thought to do is make sure I actually use the SL graphic for classic avatars on the actual product images and automate that process in Photoshop just to make life easier.



Yes, the SLMP needs a serious revamp, mostly about what you stated - having more specific options. I wonder if LL is just going to decide on their own or if they will open up future plans for the MP for feedback (yikes, who wants that, right?) from merchants and user alike so we can improve it.

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Greetings All!

Please remember to keep your comments to each other civil.  Everyone has, and is entitiled, to their own opinion, but no one is entitled to make personal attacks against other users.

If a buyer leaves a review that points out, discusses, or complains, about something that the item is not, or is not advertised to contain, the review is considered Off Topic and should be flagged as such.

Merchants should reply to the review, in a civil manner, pointing out that the issue raised in the review is not applicable to the item as it is sold and advertised.

With regards to the original post and the issue pointed out, if an item is NOT advertised as a Mesh item, or is not advertised as working with a Mesh item, and the review points out that the item is not Mesh, or does not work with Mesh items, then clearly the review comments are Off Topic.

The Merchant should reply to the review advising that the item is not advertised as Mesh or working with Mesh. 

When the Flag Report is reviewed, the reviewer will then be able to read the review comments, the reply comments from the Merchant AND will review the item itself for any mention of being or working with Mesh.

If the listings is confirmed not to indicate in any manner (including keywords) that it is, or will work with, Mesh, then the review will be removed from the product listing.

 

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Lol I leave and all heck breaks loose. I mostly needed to vent and only noticed more posts here. Because I saw my angry little reviewer had her friends come and leave more reviews, different verse same as first. So I put in to have them removed as well and saw the mail in my folders. But I think the anger here clearly illustrates that a new process may be needed. And definitely updated documentation.

To the someone that suggested I update my listings, I have done so to a few, but need better verbiage, can tell I was more than a little irritated when I wrote it lol. So will update again over the weekend. And as a thanks to my wonder customers who did read, making an updated version of my meshes for them to enjoy. Also found a new partnership with a lessor known mesh body creator to work with as well. But will still keep making my good stuff for the classic SL bodies and make some new stuff too. So good came out of bad. That is awesome.

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