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Sylvia Wasp

Tonic Fine Beauty is the best female mesh body available in SL (a plea to creators)

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Okay, I thought I'd try a strictly positive post here.  

While I do wear the Tonic Fine body, I have no affiliation with the creator, and no monetary incentive to write this, I just thought that I'd get the word out about this body as a plea to content creators to actually try and make some clothes for her.  Right now there is almost nothing made for Tonic.

Tonic Fine Beauty is simply the BEST, (bar-none!) female mesh body currently made in Second Life, and I've tried most if not all of them.  

This isn't an opinion, it's an objective assessment based on real, solid, factual criteria.  

The criteria are simply this:

- that the body appear REALISTIC in shape

- that the body especially have realistic BREASTS (that look and hang like real women's breasts)

- that it be finely made (high quality mesh with no discernible eges and vertices)

- that it hasn't got "built-in" styles that can just as easily be performed with the sliders (like a huge ass or hips)

- that it isn't made like a fashion model with distorted forward tilted hips or ridiculously thin torsos

- that it can easily be made to look like a woman instead of a teenaged girl.  

Based on these criteria, Tonic Fine Beauty body is literally the BEST female body in Second Life.  

I realise that what's popular, isn't necessary realism.  I realise also that gigantic unrealistic boobs, underaged waif-like girls, and fashion models are very, very popular in Second Life.  

But please, for the sake of all the real women who want to look like real women in Second Life, consider making some clothes for this excellent body.  

If it helps the bottom line, please know that there is also a "big boob" version of the Tonic body called "Tonic Curvy Beauty," so creating clothes for Tonic bodies doesn't mean you are turning your back on those who like the big boobs.  Also, the breasts on Tonic Curvy Beauty, while outsized, are still far more realistic looking than those on the other bodies.  

I'm sure there is a market for this body and for clothes to be made for it.  Please, please consider it

thanks for listening ...  :-) 

Sylvia. 

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Ho hum, yet another body to further fragment the already tedious process of creating items for mesh avatars.

 

I hope the creator offers developer kits without the hassle involved and often ignored requests than some of the other mesh body creators.

 

You see, that's the issue here, not whether people necessarily want to create or not but it's whether they can get a suitable dev kit. Without that, it's a world of trial and error and waste of lots of time.

 

Also, very chicken and egg. A couple of requests per month for a niche, unknown body, isn't really going to light anyone's fire when considering ROI.

 

Good luck though. See if they have an easily obtainable dev kit.

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Dev kit is available and designers are already working.  There are also already full-perm meshes available but they are not very good ones so far.  

I'm just trying to drum up some support for a superior product.  

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Not a mesh clothing maker and I am happy you found a body that works for you.

 

BUT reading through your criteria, there is a least one body that will do what you want. AND I see gals with mesh bodies and huge butts and boobs (why oh why they wan't them I have no clue).

 

While "I" am thin and modelesce, my alt is definitely not and she looks very realistic in her plus size manner with slightly sagging breasts and fat thighs etc. What almost always needs to happen is that you need to rework your "old" standard avatar shape to get the look you want. And yes, if folks use the shapes that come with the different bodies -- well I tried them for examples and wasn't thrilled.

 

It isn't hard to learn how to make shapes. All it takes is some time and watching what each slider does.  I never really liked the TMP body and I do agree that at least the one for the males is faulty in many respects as changing the sliders either does very little or then the body doesn't work at all. 

 

Again though, this body that you love is not the only one that can look REAL. With the market very much inline with the top three makers, it will be difficult to get a foothold I am guessing. Maitreya was able to do that coming to the party late because many folks appreciated the difference. I for one waited and didn't buy any body UNTIL Maitreya. I did try them all. Perhaps if this body is as great as you say, that will be true with your favorite.

 

But as someone mentioned, new folks buying bodies will likely go for ones that have the most clothes that they like. The trend now it seems is making mesh for ONLY mesh bodies (no standard sizing). Many of the original mesh designers are taking that route assuming (and I have a feeling they are correct) that most of the people that buy their items have one of the top three brands.

 

My two cents :D.

 

 

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The title alone is pure spam to me. Your creteria of "BEST" are totally subjective as everybodys "best" would be. No word on the technical side of things also.

Wouldn't it be enough to say that YOU like this particular body the most, for whatever reason, and that you would like to see more creators would build for this body, too?

To this is almost like all these marketplace listings who claim, "best in SL". I always stop reading at this point and look for something else.

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Since I was too tired to work on any thing productive, I went and looked at the demo. I was prepared to criticize for it's polycount, amongst other things. However, it was not quite what I expected. Although I am no mesh body expert, I think it was okay compared to others. The body was only 48.594 kTris, made up of 119 objects and added 5490 to my avatar rendering weight. Still a lot of faces, but is less than the popular Maitreya body, which as 108.354 kTris. There was a tiny tiny gap between my dragon head neck (which is made to fit the size S standard size on the classic avatar), but it isn't noticeable and very well could have been that I was up at a really high elevation. The seam hider did not work with the neck of my head. I did like that the boobs resized smaller (around 25%) without looking too odd compared to the Slink and Maitreya bodies. My only real complaint was that I could not get the HUD to change the nail shape.

To be honest, I might consider getting it if there were more clothes available, as it seemed to be the one that is most satisfactory to me so far. However, I cover a lot of my avatar with not too revealing clothes, so I wonder if a mesh body is necessary. Personally, I think it is kind of just adds unnecessary additional rendering weight when you are not wearing revealing clothes. In addition, I have not heard about the availablity of the developer kit. If I wanted to have digigrade legs that were rigged, I would definitely need it to make them. For now, I probably will stick with the craptastic classic avatar body and maybe I'll keep an eye on this one to see if more designers make clothes for it.

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Hey, thanks for the considered reply.  :-)

I don't see anywhere where you mention what this brand of body is that would work for me, although I'm guessing Maitreya?

I've tried Maitreya, of which I think the best is Lara, but it's still not able to be deformed into anything like "me."  I find the breasts in particular are not so realistic, and don't go below a size that would be essentially double the size I am in RL and using the Tonic body.  

As I said, one of the main reasons I like the Tonic body are the realistic breasts, especially the ability to get them small enough so that they are "real world" sized (below a DD).  Again, I get that most folks like big boobs, and that lots of RL girls are DD or higher, but I think at least half of all women are not.  

As to making the body, yes ... I know all about that.  I'm actually an expert at making body shapes and that's part of the reason I'm asking designers to make clothes for Tonic.  

The sad reality is that if you change the shape of the body under the mesh (as I have done and as you suggest) instead of leaving it in the "out of the box" shape, then no clothes fit, except "fitted mesh" clothes, of which there are basically none (or very few) for Tonic.  

SL used to be about creativity and making your own shape, your own body etc. and that's what I still do.  I don't want to look like a model that's been taken out of a Barbie box on the shelf.  

That's why I use Tonic.  :-)

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No, you are completely miscontruing here and don't seem to be using the correct definition of "subjective."

I laid out the criteria, which are admittedly *my* criteria, but they are objective criteria.  It's not subjective at all.  The criteria revolve around "realism," as in "like a natural female body in real life."

There are of course all kinds and shapes of "real" female bodies, but that's my point.  A good, realistic mesh body should be deformable, using the sliders of the underneath skeleton, into any "real" female shape.  

With other bodies, this is not the case. It's probably not the case with Tonic either, but it's a lot *closer* than the others. 

Sylvia

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What a good review.  :-)

It is of course not perfect.  The neck issue bothers me too, it seems to hide the seam less well than other bodies.  The Dev-kit is in the shop somewhere I think.  

Sylvia

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Sylvia Wasp wrote:

No, you are completely miscontruing here and don't seem to be using the correct definition of "subjective."

I laid out the criteria, which are admittedly *my* criteria, but they are objective criteria.  It's not subjective at all.  The criteria revolve around "realism," as in "like a natural female body in real life."

There are of course all kinds and shapes of "real" female bodies, but that's my point.  A good, realistic mesh body should be deformable, using the sliders of the underneath skeleton, into any "real" female shape.  

With other bodies, this is not the case. It's probably not the case with Tonic either, but it's a lot *closer* than the others. 

Sylvia

http://www.curiosityaroused.com/skepticism/subjective-vs-objective-whats-the-difference/

Your criteria may have been objective; however, if you want your assessment to be considered objective you need to show us the tests you used and the results from them - for instance, comparing measurements and proportions of the mesh and its competition to anatomical data.

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1. No pictures?!?!

2. They have a MP store but don't have the mesh bodies in it... That seems silly.

3. No pictures?!?

4. I'm confused by the "that it can easily be made to look like a woman instead of a teenaged girl" statement. Unless you mean a Kemono body, the others all look like adult womens bodies.

5. Maitreya, Slink, Belleza and Eve all fit your criteria as well. Seeing as there are tons of clothing for them AND they have Omega kits available why should someone switch or buy the Tonic body?

6. In order to get the mesh creation kit you have to have a discussion with the creator, rather than just buy or apply for it. This will put off a lot of creators as it takes up time and some of them may be more introverted. Also, a big bone to pick for me is, most body creators want merchants to have original mesh clothing in their store for mesh bodies before they will give you the kits.. How is one supposed to do that if you cant get the kits?

7. No pictures!?!? I bet you were waiting for that.

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OK. Pictures. This is my alt in a Maitreya Lara body. She has fairly fat thighs and her breasts are not "perky". I could easily make her bigger and breasts less perky, but this seems like a pretty acurate recreation of a regular folks body to me.

 

Just bored and waiting for my RL company to arrive *wink*.

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Chic Aeon wrote:



 

OK. Pictures. This is my alt in a Maitreya Lara body. She has fairly fat thighs and her breasts are not "perky". I could easily make her bigger and breasts less perky, but this seems like a pretty accurate recreation of a regular folks body to me.

 

Just bored and waiting for my RL company to arrive *wink*.

Now, while i appreciate a well put together av, and yours certainly counts, I was hoping for pics of this supposed perfect av the Tonic mesh body.

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We are spoilt for choice at the moment with mesh bodies, each of us though have certain expectations and will have a subjective view. The OP's message got lost a little in her enthusiam for her preferred body.  She is hopeful creators will support Tonic and  increase the clothing range.

I gather from other comments that creators have often found those who design the mesh av's less than helpful expecting the creator to do all the work.  It sounds like Tonic are willing to give developers a kit to help.  It is a win win really to do so.  Not everyone wants to spend all their time naked in second life, however impressive their body may be.

A recent returnee to sl I have tried on most of the high profile mesh bodies now in sl through their demo's.  I can say that most of them are masterfully created and made my vanilla model look like a sack of potatoes.  A picture here is like a picture in marketplace, interesting to look at but not necessarily helpful in determining the best fit for each of us.   If you log in to sl and search Tonic you will find the store where you can test both the thin and curvy versions of Tonic, I don't think you will be disappointed.

I did in the end purchase the Tonic Curvy option, I just felt comfortable in it .. if that makes sense.

I have an extensive wardrobe and i will most of the time be in my vanilla body with its shortcomings hidden under the fine work of many years of clothing makers in world.

I imagine too I will buy one or two of the others if I see clothing I must have lol.  

I do hope Tonic stands the test of time and that the OP does get her wish,  I will be watching myself eager to expand my handful of Tonic clothing choices.  

 

 

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IDK! I agree with you!!!!! I LOVE the Tonic Curvy because you're right, it's realistic, and AS a woman, it's nice to see that someone actually creates a body that doesnt make RL me feel like **bleep** for never being able to achieve. The fact that a body like that is available for me in SL is awesome because it gives RL me more confidence. I know it doesn't make much sense to others, but to me it does. Before I found the tonic, I actually preffered the SL default because nothing else looked even remotely realistic or even like humanly possible without plastic surgery lmfao. Awesome post. Thank you.

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I really have to say I agree with the OP and others about Tonic's realism (for the most part), although as others have pointed out, RL bodies vary widely too so the presence of Tonic isn't an answer but a completion of the circle, perhaps. The market will decide if it agrees with that, of course.

Anyway, the issue runs much deeper, however. As far as I know and based on what I see starting with the default avatars and the "bones" that regulate how and where we can adjust our sliders, experts on anatomy and physiology were never consulted. While I think LL does a masterful job on the technical end of SL and enables all of us to have such great fun, I think designing a human avatar by winging it was the first mistake. It's really something (Especially given the billions of dollars that have flowed through SL already) worth a more serious revisit by LL (and I don't mean just adding more bones, although the face desperately needs them (and needs them placed under the guidance of an expert in the relevant bio field). 

And it's not just how our avis look; it's how they interact with the pixel world. Have you ever noticed how fast our avatars walk? Sort of reminds you of that nerd in school who would rush around the hallways with his head down and run into things. You don't get to take in and appreciate the things around you when you're moving so quickly. There are some useful tools on MP to correct this but this was something easily ameliorated from the start with some basic knowledge of humans. 

There is no such thing as perfect; indeed, perfect is very much subjective and everyone has their own unique ideal. However, I think there could be improvement of the underlying architecture of our avatars upon which our mesh bodies are built that would really take us all to the next level. Anyway those are my thoughts.

Btw., I own Tonic fine, Maitreya, Slink Physique, and the freebie Ebody fine and curvy bodies, which are the closest to Tonic I've seen from other vendors so far.  

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6 hours ago, mehllama said:

Have you ever noticed how fast our avatars walk? Sort of reminds you of that nerd in school who would rush around the hallways with his head down and run into things.

That's more a function of your AO.

When the animation doesn't match the perceived speed it looks real weird.

Edited by Callum Meriman
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Actually, if you look at the rate at which your surroundings pass you by, it's pretty evident you're traveling at a significantly greater speed than a real human would travel at a walk. You can try it without any AO.

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Necro'd thread resurrected, but perhaps one worth resurrecting as a lot of what is discussed still apply.

The O.P. Makes several good points, though they are all subjective ones, mostly based on the look of something. I agree Tonic is the best on market right now and I'll express why I believe that albeit in more factual aspects:

  • It's among the newest, so the "tech' is also among the newest - all Bento baked right in.
  • Auto-Alpha baked in and available to anyone, super easy to use: now I can auto-alpha no-modify stuff.
  • SmartFeet - something I still haven't seen on any other body, like Auto-Alpha - changes to correct feet based on the shoe (flat, mid, high)
  • Amazingly low RC - lower than Maitreya and Eve and all the Belleza, except for Venus Light.
  • Full physics support: Boobs, Butt, Belly. All the others (that I am aware of) are boobs only, and Belleza is boobs and butt only.
  • Mesh Creator kit right there in the store at amazingly low cost. Just buy it from the vendor and start rigging stuff.
  • Large selection of great-fitting outfits. It's been a while since this thread was started. Searching MP for "Tonic" now brings up a massive selection.
I started out with Eve way back when, then tried the Maitreya (I'm not a fan of that one, personally) and went with Belleza. Wore the Belleza for years. And I still love that one to no end. However, in all that time: one update, ONE. Besides, I was in the mood for a makeover and thought what the heck. Shopped around, demoed all the newest bodies and versions. Tonic is definitely a winner - both in the flexibility of looks and also on the technical side.
 
So with all that said: this is why I concur with the OP. :)
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Unless I am blind, I assume the Tonic bodies are no mod because I'm not seeing the word "mod" in the creator's store, the demo's FAQ or Read Me notecards nor do I see any "Mod?" category in the mesh body addict's website for mesh bodies, only for bento mesh heads.

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Calling it realistic is laughable, seeing as womans bodies vary so much, literally any of the mesh bodies can be said to be realistic.

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On 8.2.2018 at 10:42 PM, mehllama said:

Actually, if you look at the rate at which your surroundings pass you by, it's pretty evident you're traveling at a significantly greater speed than a real human would travel at a walk. You can try it without any AO.

I'm not sure what that has to do with mesh bodies but you are right. Second Life walking speed is roughly twice as fast as average RL human walking speed. (This was one of the problems when people tried using VR headsets in SL btw. and also one of the main reasons why mouselook and 1st person view work so poorly in SL)

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On 09/07/2016 at 2:50 PM, Chic Aeon said:

Not a mesh clothing maker and I am happy you found a body that works for you.

 

BUT reading through your criteria, there is a least one body that will do what you want. AND I see gals with mesh bodies and huge butts and boobs (why oh why they wan't them I have no clue).

 

While "I" am thin and modelesce, my alt is definitely not and she looks very realistic in her plus size manner with slightly sagging breasts and fat thighs etc. What almost always needs to happen is that you need to rework your "old" standard avatar shape to get the look you want. And yes, if folks use the shapes that come with the different bodies -- well I tried them for examples and wasn't thrilled.

 

It isn't hard to learn how to make shapes. All it takes is some time and watching what each slider does.  I never really liked the TMP body and I do agree that at least the one for the males is faulty in many respects as changing the sliders either does very little or then the body doesn't work at all. 

 

Again though, this body that you love is not the only one that can look REAL. With the market very much inline with the top three makers, it will be difficult to get a foothold I am guessing. Maitreya was able to do that coming to the party late because many folks appreciated the difference. I for one waited and didn't buy any body UNTIL Maitreya. I did try them all. Perhaps if this body is as great as you say, that will be true with your favorite.

 

But as someone mentioned, new folks buying bodies will likely go for ones that have the most clothes that they like. The trend now it seems is making mesh for ONLY mesh bodies (no standard sizing). Many of the original mesh designers are taking that route assuming (and I have a feeling they are correct) that most of the people that buy their items have one of the top three brands.

 

My two cents :D.

 

 

I agree with most of what you're saying but the problem is that new bodies are fighting against a sort of "established order" now.  Because Linden Labs refused to make a mesh body of their own, the first few "out of the gate" sort of speak have become standard and no one wants to make clothing for anything else.  A lot of them aren't even that good, they just got there first. 

Worse, the full permission mesh creators/sellers now make some meshes for Tonic, but because Tonic is late to the game, all of the more standard clothing is only available for Maitreya.  In other words, I can buy the latest full perm mesh for the "erotic" dresses and creepy lingerie, but meshes for the basic skirts, blouses and pants were all made long ago and don't include Tonic versions.  For some reason I'm not clear on, mesh creators are not interested in going back and rigging a copy of these meshes for Tonic.  

So I can get nipple rings and bondage crap, but I can't get a simple pencil skirt.  I can get the same clothes that all the best prostitutes are wearing, but I can't get a simple summer dress.  

It's all down to POPULARITY as usual, instead of quality.  

Tonic bodies are actually better quality than Maitreya.  Maitreya is a great choice but the Tonic shape is better (more realistic), the options are clearer and more sensible, the HUD is better etc.  But if no one wants to make clothing for it, it makes no difference I guess.  Very sad really.  

Edited by Sylvia Wasp
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2 hours ago, Sylvia Wasp said:

I agree with most of what you're saying but the problem is that new bodies are fighting against a sort of "established order" now.  Because Linden Labs refused to make a mesh body of their own, the first few "out of the gate" sort of speak have become standard and no one wants to make clothing for anything else.  A lot of them aren't even that good, they just got there first. 

Worse, the full permission mesh creators/sellers now make some meshes for Tonic, but because Tonic is late to the game, all of the more standard clothing is only available for Maitreya.  In other words, I can buy the latest full perm mesh for the "erotic" dresses and creepy lingerie, but meshes for the basic skirts, blouses and pants were all made long ago and don't include Tonic versions.  For some reason I'm not clear on, mesh creators are not interested in going back and rigging a copy of these meshes for Tonic.  

So I can get nipple rings and bondage crap, but I can't get a simple pencil skirt.  I can get the same clothes that all the best prostitutes are wearing, but I can't get a simple summer dress.  

It's all down to POPULARITY as usual, instead of quality.  

Tonic bodies are actually better quality than Maitreya.  Maitreya is a great choice but the Tonic shape is better (more realistic), the options are clearer and more sensible, the HUD is better etc.  But if no one wants to make clothing for it, it makes no difference I guess.  Very sad really.

I am not going to argue who has the best body. I COULD probably argue who has the best HUD LOL. But whatever. Different people love different bodies. Some folks IRL want bigger breasts, some want thin thighs. We all have our preferences on what is pleasing and what is "realistic". 

Let's look at it from the creator's viewpoint. I make H and G (Home and Garden) which includes houses and furniture and decor. Long ago Steampunk was very fashionable in SL. Tons of folks were in Steampunk communities and Steampunk items sold very well (clothes included). That genre is no longer the Flavor of the Month (or year) so if I want to SELL something, I need to make something that someone will want to buy -- right?  

And I do. 

But this summer I made an art installation that was of the Steampunk genre (in some ways). The items I made for that have still sold well, but NOT the ones that are Steampunk (gears and contractions and such ) and they are just as well made. So if I was going to make clothes, I too would be making them for Maitreya UNLESS I "really liked to rig" (which I know for sure that I do not).

Maitreya WASN'T the first on the mesh body scene. There were quite a few before Lara came out. I waited well over a year to buy my mesh body (Lara) simply because I didn't like the others.  So while Maitreya WAS one of the early contenders, it was by no means in the first wave. Quite a few people that had the other bodies switched to Maitreya and this was long before clothes made for specific bodies became the norm; this was back in the standard sizing days. So while timing was a factor in Lara's popularity, it was only a part. Some of the early bodies are no longer around at all. 

 

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