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Sylvia Wasp

Chains (full permission) for jewelry

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I've been looking for full permission chains to make jewelry, and I've spent days going through the awful search in SL Marketplace, and reading horribly worded descriptions from would-be sellers.  I've also asked the few people I know in SL in person and no one seems to know.  

What I'm looking for is full-permission, mesh chains that go small enough for jewelry and that use *materials* instead of textures.  It would be great (and proper) if they included specular maps as well, and I would pay extra for the *.obj files etc if available, but basic, simple, materials enabled mesh chains would be the starting point.  

Does no-one make or sell these, or are just they lousy at describing their products?  :-/

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A quick search of MarketPlace, using chains as the search word, under Building and Object Components>Mesh Creator Tools>Avatar Accessories, brought up a lot of jewelry chains.  Some were complete, such as a necklace or bracelet) and all you would have to do would be add the pendant, beads or whatever else you want.  Others were pieces of chains that you can put together to make different pieces of jewelry which gives you flexibility to make a lot of different types, such as earrings to match a necklace.

Pardon me if I'm wrong, but from your post it sounds like you don't know much about 'materials". and you should learn to make reading the descriptions easier.  They will make more sense then.

First all mesh chains use Diffuse Textures, which you and some descriptions are referring to as 'textures'.  What you also need for materials for chains is a Specular Map (which gives you shine in the right places), and maybe a Normal Map (to make the surface of the chain etched or raised in a patter) but not always.  You'd have to experiment to see if you want to use a Normal Map. 

An AO map which comes with some is a texture to show you where textures you create from scratch should go on the three types of maps above.

While not all the ones I see came with all three any missing ones wouldn't be hard to make in GIMP (which is free) and other high level graphics programs if you have the Diffuse texture.  Google how to make them in the program you use to find out how.  It's a skill you should learn if you are creating jewelry because then the same chain can look different for different sets of jewelry you make.

Take a look at the SL wiki about this subject: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Texture_Tools

 

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Hi, 

I know you are a recognized (sic) helper, and I thank you for the small clarification you provided, but I can't help but notice that you spend a lot of time insulting me, and then end up essentially saying the same thing that I had - that most of the descriptions are confusing, use what you describe as incorrect terms, and are difficult to sort through.  

I know what normal and specular maps are, I've used normal maps from the time that they were called "bump maps" and have been texturing items in Second Life since early 2005.  I clearly said I'm searching for something using specular maps.  

As someone who just re-joined Second Life perhaps I was using the term "materials" in a less than exact way, but it was clear what I was talking about.  You didn't have to get personal and insult me when it's clear that you too understood what I was saying.  "Materials enabled" is exactly the term everyone uses when talking about items that have specular and normal maps as opposed to just "textures" or diffuse maps.  I know there is more to it than that, but an item can't really be "materials enabled" without them.

Your throwing around of the newer term "diffuse maps" as if it's something more scientific that "textures" is again hurtful. It just clouds the issue and adds nothing of any relevance and just seems to be a thinly disguised attempt to insult me.  What good did it do (other than making me feel bad) to resort to such terminology?  Your post is long, adds nothing and doesn't actually help me.  Now I'm responding with this long post which also helps nothing, except maybe to restore my self-esteem a little bit.  

I also (obviously) performed the same searches myself (and as I said), came to similar conclusions as you did.  Your listing of the availability of various types of chains, (implying perhaps that I was too dense to find them on my own) after clearly stating that I had been searching the listings for a while, is insulting and again, I can only see it as thinly disguised hostility on your part.  

The real issues here are that there are lots of chains on MP, they are inadequately or incompletely described for the most part, the very categories of items for sale imposed by Linden ("Mesh Creators Tools" for example) are kind of confusing in themselves, and most sellers who get into any detailed description merely describe "textures" regardless of whether the items use diffuse, normal, or specular maps.  

This is why I was asking for help of course.  This is the confusion I was trying to break through by searching for the clear information of someone who knows first hand which product I should buy.  Another builder perhaps. 

Apologies for the anger here, but I had a store in Second Life and was part of the help team at Help Island before you even joined btw.  Please don't try to "help" me anymore, and don't bother to reply on this thread, thanks. 

Sylvia

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I agree that the materials mention in the OP didn't make sense at all :D.

Materials (in the SL terminology , not the Blender terminology is used in ADDITION to the AO map.  You can of course just add a simple blank texture to get your chain to 'shine' but it is important to note that not everyone will SEE that shine. Materials IMHO should be use as an extra feature and not depended upon. Be sure and turn off advanced lighting to see what your items looks like for those with less hefty computers.

 

 

BUT just wanted to note that when I went searching on the marketplace I came up with very few chains and many things that were NOT chains and that didn't have any mention of chains in the description (hence I am guessing that chains was leftover in the keywords from copying over a listing -I have done that a few times and now try and be more careful).

 

I believe the difference in our searches (maybe) is that I have ADULT turned off. Hence "chains" equal "bondage" in the not so wise determination of the Marketplace filtering and rating system.

 

So, it is certainly possible that the OP was not searching with ADULT on.   I was pretty confused when my search garnered so few items, but your post made that light bulb come on :D.

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Wow. Amythist took time out of her day to write that not so brief post. I got the sense that she was really trying to help without full knowledge of your proficiency. Basically, she tried to cover all the bases in the hopes that you'd find aid in something, if not everything.

 

If you didn't find anything she said to be of use to you, perhaps you should have just left it at that and waited for other responses instead of assuming she was targeting you with some malicious intent.

 

The only rude person in this thread is you. God help the person who attempts to offer you any other suggestions.

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I started to reply, saying that I didn't understand what the OP wanted, her description was so confused. Glad I did not bother. 

I'll just wait for the forum scolds to come along and complain that replies were not sugar coated enough.

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Well, I assume I'm usually lumped in with the "forum scolds" and see nothing in this thread out of line, except the OP.

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I am sorry if you thought my post was insulting.  That was not my intent at all.  You original posts wording confused me as to how much knowledge you had of materials.  No matter what age an avatar is, sometimes even the oldbies don't know things if they never worked with before. 

When I try to help people unless I know for sure that they have the technology down, I try to explain things from the beginning.  If another person who doesn't know about the subject and is searching for answers reads the post, hopefully I'll educate them as well.  If you find that insulting then I'm sorry. 

I'll bow out now and promise to refrain from helping you in the future.

 

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I did a search for Specular in the same category Amethyst recommended and found a neck chain with specular maps on the first page. It's expensive and not a merchant I'm thrilled to drive traffic to, but it is there.

I don't think the jewellery component creators are lousy at describing their products. I think you're looking for something really rather specific (one type of item, full perm, with a particular feature) that no one is supplying.

Having spent way too much time frustrating myself with marketplace searches for full perm components, I can sympathise with the state you've gotten yourself in. So please keep that in mind when I suggest that if you want something this specific and no one is supplying it, the choices are to change your criteria or start learning the skills you need to make it yourself.

 

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Or even if very frustrated commision some.

(Actually, they are rather fun to puzzle out in blender and not all that complicated to make yourself,

if a little frustrating to start out from scratch - well, it is blender after all =^^= Just took in my case

searching for how to make tank tracks to make the connection.)

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Well I apologise for being "confusing" then, but I thought I was being pretty straightforward albeit a bit colloquial in my language.  Then the passive aggresive "helper" set me off I guess.  

I am looking to make jewlery and making chains form scratch with prims is both difficult, time consuming, and apparently something no one wants to buy anymore regardless, so I'm looking for full permission mesh chains that can be used for this purpose.  

Almost everything I could find in the MP for that purpose was poorly described, but seemed to be primarily about textures which simulate the effects of shiny metal using photo-realistic textures.  I have some of these myself, they are not good, and really only look good to people with old computers.  I want something that uses the material properties available to us in Second Life *now,* not something that looks good on a newbie.  

So I want something that doesn't rely on standard painted textures but something that uses specular maps and can be made to "shine" in SL light.  This seemed completley obvious to me from my original post and still does now.  

I've seen many objects like this in SL myself and the effect is startling.  Chrome that actually *looks* like chrome, and also reflects lights like chrome.  I've even found chains made this way in MP but unfortunately they don't go small enough for my purposes, so I know that it's possible and that they exist.  

Especially in the case of something made out of simple metal, there is no reason at all to include a texture with shading and colours when the same thing can now be accomplished much better using the new tools.  

As a designer of long standing I completley disagree that "materials" are only an *extra* or a part of the design, especially for objects like this.  That's designing for the *past,* or for the lowest common denominator and basically a complete waste of time.  Your product will almost immediately become outdated and wht's the point in that?  

People who *don't* have ALM turned on shouldn't expect to have SL bend over backwards for them.  Even a basic computer that's currently a few years old can easily handle ALM.  Handicapping a great design because you want to optimise it for people with sub-standard computers is just plain foolish imo.  

Anyway, since no one has any helpful suggestions or ideas on where to get such an item or wants to sell me one, this is the last from me on the topic.  If there is anyone out there who has such a chain for sale, just contact me in-world.

thanks for the help,

Sylvia 

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All I can say is "OUCH!"  You just managed to insult not only those who "attempted" to help you, but also any designers who do design things for use by anyone in SL regardless of age of computer or it's capabilities and a good portion of SL users.  I was gonna stay outta this one cause I don't make jewelery, and didn't feel qualified to respond.  BUT  it is your nasty attitude and snobish arrogance that has caused me to speak.  Not about your question and request, but about the way you handled this whole thread.

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Don't know if it's worth my time to post this since you've apparently flounced out of another of your threads, but it is worth my time to mention that my impression of Amethyst is that she is kind, gentle and genuinely wanting to help people. ("Recognized Helper" is a tag given by the system, with the American spelling of course, so don't diss her for that.) My impression of you, Sylvia, is that you have a chip on your shoulder the size of a mountain and that you are the one setting yourself off, no matter how certain you are it was someone else. It also seems that you want very specific things and expect the rest of us to fall in line with them.

Not everyone shares your tastes. I haven't seen anyone insulting yours, but you do seem to feel quite free in insulting others'. Do you realise that you are doing this?

Why do you expect everyone to "bend over backwards" for you? If I can make something that works for the widest variety of people in SL on whatever graphics settings they are running, I will. And that means making sure my diffuse textures are as good as I can get them.

Materials aren't all that. They can be poorly used and are even more subject to different settings and graphics cards than diffuse textures. Good diffuse ones can not only be better, they can be better more reliably.

But bottom line, if you want to go into business selling something that can only be viewed as you intend by a subset of the population, go for it. Just make it very clear on your marketplace listings and offer demos. Or else you'll be back here whinging about poor reviews left by people who choose to run SL in the way that works for them.

And if you're serious about creating jewellery to sell, you really do need to get used to making your own textures whether they are diffuse or specular.

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