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What would be considered...a high script count these days?


Kascha Matova
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Having been away from SL for quite a while (except for the forums) and not logging in on a frequent basis I've completely lost track of the changes that have taken place in scripting and other areas that may have affected the way bandwidth is used and avie attachments, etc. cost against sims.

I've experienced some problems with TPs lately that have resulted in me getting logged out of SL right in the middle of them and it was suggested that my script count might be too high. I haven't significantly changed my avie from when I was in constantly and I never had the problems I've had lately. I was using v.2.5, Kirsten's latest and the latest Phoenix viewers when I was having the problems, but switching to Ascent seemed to have solved the problem as everything rezzes instantly and I haven't had any failed TPs to existing locations.

But just so I know, since I can check script count with Ascent now, what is "an excessive amount of scripts", to where I should start feeling like the black hole of every sim I enter?

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Avatar rendering cost has nothing to do with scripts or bandwith. It's a graphical thing. It's just how many prims are attached, flexi or not, etc. If you have an old or poor graphics card, lowering your ARC will help your Frames Per Second, and maybe how quickly your avatar prims load AFTER they're downloaded.

Scripts are separate, but these days, they can be measured. You can count how many scripts are on your avatar. Fewer is better. I generally have less than 10.

If you want, contact me in world (remeber to say why), and I can give you a little object to tell you your estimated script memory, which plays a significant factor in bandwith, teleports, etc.

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@Kascha - The answer of course is .. it depends.

When you get a count of the scripts, try and determine where they are located. Common and reasonable sources of scripts are HUDs, animated attachments and some forms of clothing accessories that use an active invisi-prim type script. But those sources also generally run in the 2-5 scripts each range.

Common sources of scripts that are not really necessary are hair, boots, bling jewelry (when you keep the bling turned off all the time anyway). You will usually find those items having script counts in the 100's or higher. I've bumped into people with 800+ scripts .. and it was just hair, boots and bling.

For those high-count items, most recent ones have a menu option to "Delete Scripts" (or some similar wording) that removes all the scripts and thus leaves the item non-modifiable. But once it's sized properly that's usually not a problem. (Just make SURE you have an original copy in Inventory first.)

Once you check your own personal script count, and you've narrowed down where you might have a high density of scripts .. try to clean those out and try TPing again. With luck that should fix not only your TP issues, but also the related problems like inventory not loading completely, painfully slow rez times and frequent "rubber banding" (continuing to walk way past the point where you let go of the arrow keys).

Best of luck and let us know how much "weight" you lose ... AND how it changed or didn't change your issues.

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Oooh! thank you everyone for such swift responses!

I'm not sure what my avatar rendering cost is, either what the number is or what the term refers to, but I know that I dressed up as I normally do with the usual amounts of blingery (not a ton I promise!) and on Ascent, which lets me view my 'S-Count', I was able to see that I had 103 scripts.

That number sounds ridiculous, considering that I would be judging it by how much stuff I had on, and I know I'm not wearing 103 items, but of course that's probably not how it's done and I can't even say what constitutes one script for these purposes.

I've heard of people setting themselves up, like with hair or whatnot, and then removing the script within so it doesn't count against the total. Does it have to have mod permissions to do that? Also, doesn't that mean that any functionality would be lost (like say, changing the opacity of a pair of sunglasses or turning heel clicks on and off) until I manually put the script back in and did reload-scripts?

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Kascha Matova wrote:

I've heard of people setting themselves up, like with hair or whatnot, and then removing the script within so it doesn't count against the total. Does it have to have mod permissions to do that? Also, doesn't that mean that any functionality would be lost (like say, changing the opacity of a pair of sunglasses or turning heel clicks on and off) until I manually put the script back in and did reload-scripts?

Yes, if you remove the scripts from an "Active" (does something or has menus or options you can use) attachment then you will kill that functionality. However, usually those things have very few scripts, often just one. The biggest offenders are the resize scripts that were put in each and every prim of a multi-prim object .. hair being a good example.

 

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There is (or was - the Linden's don't exactly tell us much) a plan to introduce script limits per parcel and per avatar, rather like the current prim limits.  What level the script limits would be set at was never discussed-disclosed-invented.  It was, however, determined that one LSO (old style) script ALWAYS requires 16k of memory in a sim.  One Mono (new style) script might need anything from 4K to 64k but since no-one knew it'd always be counted as 64k, just in case.

Some sims were dying prety badly because the number of scripts running on them meant the server was running out of memory. 300-odd script hair/shoes were the main targets burnt at the stake.  We got a few more functions to check what our usage actually was.  Nothing more heard - especially the fact that'new style is 4x the size of the old style.

As to 'how many'? Well, if you're having a problem it's probably too many.  I have seen people with 400+ scripts (mostly newbs not knowing it, of course) and I know people that are in single figures.  200+ should definitely sound a warning bell and if it was me I'd worry about amything over 50.

The big question has to be though - do you know what all those scripts are doing?  If you don't then they shouldn't be infecting your computer.  If you do then your call as to whether they're worth it is as good as anyone else's at the moment.

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

 

Kascha Matova wrote:

I've heard of people setting themselves up, like with hair or whatnot, and then removing the script within so it doesn't count against the total. Does it have to have mod permissions to do that? Also, doesn't that mean that any functionality would be lost (like say, changing the opacity of a pair of sunglasses or turning heel clicks on and off) until I manually put the script back in and did reload-scripts?

Yes, if you remove the scripts from an "Active" (does something or has menus or options you can use) attachment then you will kill that functionality. However, usually those things have very few scripts, often just one. The biggest offenders are the resize scripts that were put in each and every prim of a multi-prim object .. hair being a good example.

 

Oh my. That sounds like it could get ugly quickly. Just look at my mop in my badge, lol. That's a lot of prims, although I don't know for sure about resize functionality with it. Is that just for hairdos that have a resize option or does even manual adjustment with the SL controls rely on in-prim scripts?

Really, I only have one hairdo I think that allows for a style change (from ponytail to bun). I have another from the same maker, and both come with the same 30 color options included - I just double click a new color from inventory to change. Everything else is just regular, meaning it comes one way, doesn't have auto resizing options, and I have to buy a different one for each color.

I used to like heel clicks, but now I don't care, or they make me self conscious, so I turn them off. Most of my shoes have them, especially my Moodys (which also have things like chains, anklets, bling, and walks as options). I don't wear a ton of jewelry, but my tummy ring, necklace, and some earrings bling, though not obnoxiously.

Using the advice you and everyone gave, I'll be able to go through and see what's what. I had no idea that there could be that many scripts in one attachment. At that rate, maybe 103 total isn't as horrendous as I thought it was. But I know I can get better than that.

Thanks so much everyone! I'll modernize yet! :womanvery-happy:

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it honestly depends on what and where your going. if you are considering joining the SL military or roleplaying you might wanna keep it under 50ish or lower. 

i try to stay under 100 scripts and i do that very well, i have my furry avatar on, emdash, collar, and ao on usually. 

 

these people with 300 or more scripts tend to cause lag for the sim and people. i know i'm going to get flamed for this but script count DOES matter. so please be nice and descript yourself to a decent amount. xD

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If you click on your hair and don't get up a blue menu, your hair should not have resizers in it. Try to edit the hair and pick "stretch". If white squares appear around it that you can push and pull to stretch or shrink the hair, then you can edit it manually.

But, the shoe maker you mention is your problem. I counted scripts in a pair that were given out as a group gift, and it was over 100 scripts in the shoes. There is no sign of him using more modern scripts either, so you are basically stuck with scriptheavy shoes. Try to take off your shoes and check how many scripts you have.


Kascha Matova wrote:


Darrius Gothly wrote:

 

Kascha Matova wrote:

I've heard of people setting themselves up, like with hair or whatnot, and then removing the script within so it doesn't count against the total. Does it have to have mod permissions to do that? Also, doesn't that mean that any functionality would be lost (like say, changing the opacity of a pair of sunglasses or turning heel clicks on and off) until I manually put the script back in and did reload-scripts?

Yes, if you remove the scripts from an "Active" (does something or has menus or options you can use) attachment then you will kill that functionality. However, usually those things have very few scripts, often just one. The biggest offenders are the resize scripts that were put in each and every prim of a multi-prim object .. hair being a good example.

 

Oh my. That sounds like it could get ugly quickly. Just look at my mop in my badge, lol. That's a lot of prims, although I don't know for sure about resize functionality with it. Is that just for hairdos that have a resize option or does even manual adjustment with the SL controls rely on in-prim scripts?

Really, I only have one hairdo I think that allows for a style change (from ponytail to bun). I have another from the same maker, and both come with the same 30 color options included - I just double click a new color from inventory to change. Everything else is just regular, meaning it comes one way, doesn't have auto resizing options, and I have to buy a different one for each color.

I used to like heel clicks, but now I don't care, or they make me self conscious, so I turn them off. Most of my shoes have them, especially my Moodys (which also have things like chains, anklets, bling, and walks as options). I don't wear a ton of jewelry, but my tummy ring, necklace, and some earrings bling, though not obnoxiously.

Using the advice you and everyone gave, I'll be able to go through and see what's what. I had no idea that there could be that many scripts in one attachment. At that rate, maybe 103 total isn't as horrendous as I thought it was. But I know I can get better than that.

Thanks so much everyone! I'll modernize yet! :womanvery-happy:

 

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@Kascha - In Phoenix, you can right-click on one of your attachments and get a script count for just it. That will tell you how many scripts each item has. You can also follow the advice given above by Marianne Little to "Edit" your hair and see if it can be manually modified. (Remember that Ctrl+Z will undo your last edit or change .. just in case.)

But from what you said, I have to agree .. it sounds like your shoes might be the issue.

My script count generally runs around 7-11 depending on which shoes and HUDs I'm wearing.

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Since the LSL way to detect the number of scripts was given to us, i have had lil gadget on one LL road to detect the script count and mem of people. Currently it show that the biggest ever script count on someone has been 764 scripts and average is 103 scripts. Biggest ever mem is 57.4MB and average is 3.7MB. (remember that the mem is a lie cause MONO scripts don't use all of that 64K)

I always refused to buy anything made from no-mod prims. (exept couple items that were just too awesome primwork) So i don't heve problem with pile of resize scripts. Usually the scripted items i wear are AO HUD and multitool HUD. Together they use 12 scripts with 0.750MB of memory. Yesterday i traveled around a continent with 10m/sec speed and didnt have any trouble on border crossings.

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

My script count generally runs around 7-11 depending on which shoes and HUDs I'm wearing.

@ Darrius = Congrats!  Mine is 11, 9 of which are in my AO-thingy.  It's great to be a bloke, isn't it?  I suspect the women could very easily run at two or three times that with all the toot they love.

@ Women -  you're just high-maintenance drama-queens wherever you are.  That's not a SLURL, it's a slur, although the difference might be hard for you to understand.

@Incoming Missiles - /me ducks

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PeterCanessa Oh wrote:


Darrius Gothly wrote:

My script count generally runs around 7-11 depending on which shoes and HUDs I'm wearing.

@ Darrius = Congrats!  Mine is 11, 9 of which are in my AO-thingy.  It's great to be a bloke, isn't it?  I suspect the women could very easily run at two or three times that with all the toot they love.

@ Women -  you're just high-maintenance drama-queens wherever you are.  That's not a SLURL, it's a slur, although the difference might be hard for you to understand.

@Incoming Missiles - /me ducks

:smileyvery-happy:

At least you knew to duck!!

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Marianne Little wrote:

But, the shoe maker you mention is your problem. I counted scripts in a pair that were given out as a group gift, and it was over 100 scripts in the shoes. There is no sign of him using more modern scripts either, so you are basically stuck with scriptheavy shoes.

My...my Moodys? You mean, alter them in some way? Or...or give up the lightning fast alteration capabilities they have? "Black! No, Red, with anklet! No no no 20% heel click. Until the next corner, then increase 5% per block with 60% max! Wait no, that guy's cute! What if he hates heel clicks?!?! Decrease to 5% at once!"

No more of that? Nooooooooo! Please not my Moodys! :womansurprised: 

(sweating, shaking, eyes darting)

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Kascha Matova wrote:

My...my Moodys? You mean, alter them in some way? Or...or give up the lightning fast alteration capabilities they have? "Black! No, Red, with anklet! No no no 20% heel click. Until the next corner, then increase 5% per block with 60% max! Wait no, that guy's cute! What if he hates heel clicks?!?! Decrease to 5% at once!"

No more of that? Nooooooooo! Please not my Moodys! :womansurprised:
 

All that functionality can be made with 1 script/object.

 

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PeterCanessa Oh wrote:

@ Women -  you're just high-maintenance drama-queens wherever you are.  That's not a SLURL, it's a slur, although the difference might be hard for you to understand.

 

Ahem. I'm female. My script count is around 10, give or take a couple depending on what I'm wearing. If I ever notice more than 15 scripts, I remove something.

<throws fruit> :P

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Kascha Matova wrote:


Marianne Little wrote:

But, the shoe maker you mention is your problem. I counted scripts in a pair that were given out as a group gift, and it was over 100 scripts in the shoes. There is no sign of him using more modern scripts either, so you are basically stuck with scriptheavy shoes.

My...my Moodys? You mean, alter them in some way? Or...or give up the lightning fast alteration capabilities they have? "Black! No, Red, with anklet! No no no 20% heel click. Until the next corner, then increase 5% per block with 60% max! Wait no, that guy's cute! What if he hates heel clicks?!?! Decrease to 5% at once!"

No more of that? Nooooooooo! Please not my Moodys! :womansurprised:
 

(sweating, shaking, eyes darting)

/me likes barefoot women. *grin*

 

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PeterCanessa Oh wrote:


Kascha Matova wrote:

At least you knew to duck!!


Thank you for realising I was only recognising the likely need for female 'extras' and not actually meaning the 'drama queen' bit at all.

(Looks around - I'm in-world when I finish reading these.  Will it be safe?)

 

WOULD have been safe ... except I just noticed they added "Incurable Male Chauvinist Pig" to the AR Reasons dropdown ... in boldface!

I promise to say nice things about you at your memorial services.

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Liisa Runo wrote:

 

Kascha Matova wrote:

My...my Moodys? You mean, alter them in some way? Or...or give up the lightning fast alteration capabilities they have? "Black! No, Red, with anklet! No no no 20% heel click. Until the next corner, then increase 5% per block with 60% max! Wait no, that guy's cute! What if he hates heel clicks?!?! Decrease to 5% at once!"

No more of that? Nooooooooo! Please not my Moodys! :womansurprised:
 

All that functionality can be made with 1 script/object.

 

Really? Wow. I remember that used to be one of the top brands anywhere. I wouldn't have come up with them if I was making a list of designers who left something to be desired regarding efficiency and good design practice. I would have expected them to have evolved with the times, given the size of the crowds at the stores and the length of the group membership list.

I guess you do learn something new every day. Which designers have taken up the mantle from them as far as prestige and quality? I have so much to rediscover in SL!

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PeterCanessa Oh wrote:


Kascha Matova wrote:

At least you knew to duck!!


Thank you for realising I was only recognising the likely need for female 'extras' and not actually meaning the 'drama queen' bit at all.

(Looks around - I'm in-world when I finish reading these.  Will it be safe?)

Meh. "Safety" is such a...relative concept though, isn't it? :womanwink:

(runs fingertip over axe blade, lovingly)

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Script-limits were announced middle/late last year to be introduced about Q3 this year.  As phase 1 we got functions to count how many scripts were in an object/on an avatar and a couple of 'efficient scripts' project functions that make it pretty reasonable to do all the resize/recolour/etc. stuff in one script.  Before that it wasn't possible to do it 'neatly' so good practice was just to do it quickly.  I wouldn't hold any creator of last year's products at fault but anyone still selling things should definitely not have a script-per-prim.

We never even got told what LL thought was an 'average' script-usage but I think the early figures were around 1,000 scripts per av!  That's a couple of hundred in attachments/HUDs and the rest in-world in vendors, sensors, greeters, etc. etc.

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Gadget Portal wrote:

Avatar rendering cost has nothing to do with scripts or bandwith. It's a graphical thing. It's just how many prims are attached, flexi or not, etc. If you have an old or poor graphics card, lowering your ARC will help your Frames Per Second, and maybe how quickly your avatar prims load AFTER they're downloaded.

Thanks for the clarification. Kudos

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