21.7 ~ 25 FPS with GTX 1080 (ultra graphic option)

[left Reinard]

hello, i'm recently upgrade my graphics card into GTX 1080.

i was so excited that i could walk around with ultra graphic option.

but frame rate is just pretty much same as GTX 970

i expected much more frame rate than previous one...

the gpu is utilize as 30~35%.

cpu utilization is enough to running second life.

temperature of gpu and cpu is also fine.

i've examined "Limit Framerate" but it's already disabled.

is that only happens to me?

my specs are

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4690K CPU @ 3.50GHz (3499.98 MHz) [overclocked into 4.2Ghz]

Memory: 32614 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 10 64-bit (Build 10586)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 1080/PCIe/SSE2

screen resolution : 3440 x 1440

Windows Graphics Driver Version: 10.18.0013.6839
OpenGL Version: 4.5.0 NVIDIA 368.39

RestrainedLove API: RLV v2.8.0 / RLVa v1.4.10a
libcurl Version: libcurl/7.38.0 OpenSSL/1.0.1i zlib/1.2.8
J2C Decoder Version: KDU v7.7.1
Audio Driver Version: FMOD Ex 4.44.61
LLCEFLib/CEF Version: 1.5.3.FS6-(CEF-WIN-3.2526.1366.g8617e7c-32) (Chrome 47.0.2526.80)
Voice Server Version: Vivox 4.6.0017.21209

Settings mode: Firestorm
Viewer Skin: Firestorm (Grey)
Font Used: Deja Vu (96 dpi)
Font Size Adjustment: 0 pt
UI Scaling: 1
Draw distance: 256 m
Bandwidth: 2000 kbit/s
LOD factor: 3
Render quality: Ultra (7/7)
Advanced Lighting Model: Yes
Texture memory: 1024 MB (1)
VFS (cache) creation time (UTC): 2016-7-1T10:22:48
Built with MSVC version 1800
Packets Lost: 617/248,081 (0.2%)

thank you for interest.

[arton Rotaru]

---

left Reinard wrote:

is that only happens to me?

---

Let's see...

https://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Viewer/20-fps-with-gtx-1080-and-i7-4960X/m-p/3040683#M27370

https://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Viewer/New-GTX-970-graphics-card-yet-very-mediocre-performance/m-p/2926375#M25713

https://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Second-Life-Tech/Terrible-FPS-in-SL-with-GTX-970/m-p/2968579#M3930

https://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Second-Life-Tech/GeForce-gtx-660-Asus-gtx-970-Strix/m-p/3002559/highlight/true#M4382

https://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Second-Life-Tech/Graphics-card-clock-speed-drops/m-p/2888569/highlight/true#M2356

[left Reinard]

oh, hi. thank you for reply.

it seems it isn't just happens to me :c

i'm using latest driver of graphics card and i don't think that it's bottleneck. games are perfectly running with GTX 1080. even GPU Utilization is higher than second life.

i installed firestorm viewer at SSD and my texture caches are stores at ram drive.

i've already twerk my graphic setting at NVIDIA control pannel

i don't think the network is bothers me.

the clock speed is also fine. and there's no thermal throttling with CPU and GPU.

temperature of GPU is stays 140ºF (60ºC)

and CPU is stays 116ºF (47ºC)

oh, clock speed is stays at default clock while i'm running second life.

the gpu clock is boost when i'm running the games but second life.

but it's still high enough clock to run with.

i'll keep look for the solution of this.

thank you so much.

[DKTitan]

I can 100 percent guarantee you that   there is absolutely nothing wrong with your card,  SL is a fickle beast.  I felt the same as you when I added a 980ti,  Too many mesh bodies in the scene and it will run like a slug. The best think I do is set my draw distance low unless I am trying to view a lot. There is simply no reason to render other sims in the distance. Youll see once its you and maybe a few people youll be able to crank the settings and let that sexy 1080 fly! Its just how it is.

[left Reinard]

thanks for the tip!

i guess i have to adjust draw distance low when running as Ultra graphic setting

i had a dream of  running second life without stutters. just smooth, beautiful scenaries :c

thank you and have a nice day!

[Nalates Urriah]

You never say what your FPS is.... Don't expect GTA frame rates. SL content is NOT optimized and kills performance.

The new Avatar Complexity is an effort to turn that around. Set it to 200k or so for your card and try lower values to find your sweet spot. DO NOT USE UNLIMITED. That turns off the video crasher protection and leaves you vulnerable to griefers.

The video card is only one of the possible bottle necks. People often update a video card thinking it will make a big difference and find it doesn't. Software-wise make sure you have setup a Second Life profile in the NVIDIA setup. See: http://blog.nalates.net/2016/06/05/nvidia-settings-2016/

Take your Max Bandwidth from 2,000 to 1,500. This setting is for the server more than for your viewer. Trying to send more UDP info than 1500 generally causes problems. The setting is recommended as 80% of your max download speed or 1,500 whichever is smaller.

Your draw distance shouldn't be that big a problem. But, keep it in the 128m range. If it is larger than the distance you can see, you are loading items and rendering some of them that you can't see. Save those cycles by reducing the distance to what you can normally see. The Quick Graphics update gave Linden Viewer users the feature FS users have had for some time, setting up graphics settings configurations and saving them. That allows quick changes. Low Draw Distance for shopping and combat and long ones for outdoors and photos. Use the feature and see if that makes a significant difference.

Check your Anti-Aliasing setting. With a 1080 some people get carried away and set it at the max. In SL 2x or 4x is pretty good. See if it makes a difference.

Experiement with other settings. My old 'settings guide' explains what all the stuff is... if you don't already know: http://blog.nalates.net/2010/12/17/graphics-tweaking-for-second-life/

If you haven't already, get the free program CPU-Z and get the memory chip info. Memory should be the fastest your motherboard can support. You may have to look up your motherboard specs to find the max it can handle.

Check the motherboard specs and make sure it can take advantage of the SSD speed. If you have an SSD hooked into the SATA ports rather than an M2 port, it may not perform any better than a fast, large cache hard drive. Also see if it can do 6gb/sec or just 3gb.

You've checked temps, so that elminates that problem.

If none of these tips help, post what you find and IM me via the forum. I don't follow these threads. I'm a comment and bounce kina girl... so I probably won't notice your follow up.

If you find your motherboard is limiting you, the only way around it is a new board that works with most of the hardware you have. I am building a new machine with a z170 board. I'm having to buy all new stuff because my existing machine is too old. Drives are 3gb era. Memory is slow DDR2 and the new board uses DDR4. So, there is a lot to consider when having to cange out the motherboard.

 -------------

PS: If you haven't done a clean install in some time, try a semi-clean install. What I mean is close the viewer, restart the computer, delete everything in the Second Life program folder (this doesn't affect chat logs, settings, or cache), reinstall the viewer. This is more of a problem for Linden Viewer users than others. FS recommends a clean install with every version update.

[left Reinard]



hello, thank you for advise! i've wrote my FPS on the subject but i should write it in here. sorry for inconvenience!

my FPS is stays at 21.7 ~ 25.

wow, that's really great notes that you wrote

i'm kinda new at forum and pretty unsure this is the way to IM to you

well, i've checked all that you wrote down.

i turn on the avatar complexity function on firestorm viewer and change the bandwidth to 1,500.

i've tested with anti aliasing but there's no change of FPS between 4x and 16x.

i can barely notice that edge has been smooth than before.

and i've already twearked through nvidia graphic panel.

my ram is four 8GB of DDR3 rams and it's running at 2,133mhz. i could overclock it more but i think it's fine.

my mainboard chipset uses z97. i plugged one m.9 SSD (samsung 950 pro 512GB), one SATA SSD (ReviewAhn 850x SSD), one HDD (Toshiba 3TB HDD)

my m.2 SDD is running at 4x speed. it's kinda slows down the performance but it's twice of speed than SATA SSD.

my viewer is already installed at m.2 SSD. and my caches are stores at RAM drive

there's plenty of space with 32GB of ram. so i uses 4GB for RAM drive

on PCI-Express line, i've put one Zotac GTX 1080 AMP Extreme.

my screen resolution is 3440x1440 (21:9), and connector type is Display Port. and it's running as 60Hz

i could connect it with HDMI but my monitor doesn't supports 60Hz with HDMI port.. :c (LG 34UC97)

i'm not sure that motherboard is bothers me. if i have to change my motherboard, i need to buy a new CPU, DDR4 RAM. that's kinda too much for second life. (GTX 1080 is too much for second life, too )

i do clean install every times when viewer is need to be update.



i'm not sure why the gpu doesn't boost when running second life.

even average of GPU Load is 17% while running it.

it was same happens while i uses msi gtx 970 twin frozer.

it's still same FPS that my pc performs.

i'm kinda curious of this problem. even i tweaked at nvidia control settings, that doesn't make any diffrence.

and firestorm only utilize 1GB of texture memory as MAX.

even i can play Witcher3 : wild hunt or DOOM while i running second life!

jeez... i have no idea why is that.

anyway, thank you for the reply! i really appreciate it. have a nice day!

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- update -----------------------------------------------------

i moved into sky. that above 3,000. there's nothing but my avatar. my GPU starts utilize 65% and GPU clock has boosted into 2,037 Mhz.

the FPS stays at 80 ~ 85.

i'm really confuses. when there's nothing around my screen, GPU Load is goes high and GPU clock starts boost.

when there's lots of things on my screen, GPU Load is drops into 15 ~ 20% and GPU clock is running at Normal clock.

i just don't understand why is that! :matte-motes-confused:

[arton Rotaru]

---

left Reinard wrote:

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- update -----------------------------------------------------

i moved into sky. that above 3,000. there's nothing but my avatar. my GPU starts utilize 65% and GPU clock has boosted into 2,037 Mhz.

the FPS stays at 80 ~ 85.

i'm really confuses. when there's nothing around my screen, GPU Load is goes high and GPU clock starts boost.

when there's lots of things on my screen, GPU Load is drops into 15 ~ 20% and GPU clock is running at Normal clock.

i just don't understand why is that! :matte-motes-confused:

---

Well, I couldn't say that I have noticed this behavior you described in particular, but there is more to realtime rendering than just having beefy hardware.

There is only so much the APIs can handle as well. DirectX 12 will be able to handle much more stuff. And probably the OpenGL successor Vulkan also. But games will have to be designed to take advantage of the new APIs.

All those other games you mentioned are specifically optimized to work well with the current APIs. Something that is hard to achieve in Second Life due to it's openess and freedom in creation. Content optimisation.

A kinda good analogy is when copying a single 1GB file from one HDD to another HDD. That's kinda quick. Now copy thousand 1MB files. This will take significantly longer. It's kind of the same with realtime rendering. A few big chunks handed over to the GPU will make the GPU happy to boost up and rendering. Now if you feed it with lots of little chunks, thousands of prims and unique textures, if will be rather unhappy, because it has to wait until all that stuff is handed over little by little to it. Then there is overdraw, lights, shadows etc...

 

[left Reinard]

hello! thanks for the reply.

i never thought about that way :matte-motes-agape:

but if it does, why "memory controller load" and "bus interface load" is low like 7%?

you know, when you starts copy the numerous small files into diffrent HDD, the cpu usage and disk usage goes high.

if it's the problem, it has to be same happens with the GPU. doesn't it?

i'm really getting curious about this.

if i misunderstanding what you wrote, i'm sorry about that.

thank you so much and have a nice day!

[arton Rotaru]

The HDD thing was just an analogy to draw a picture.

A nice attempt to explain how a render pipeline works can be found here.

https://simonschreibt.de/gat/renderhell/

[DKTitan]

I won't be able to give as elegant  analyse like the others but I can trutly state that based on the gpu-z in conjunction with Msi After burner, I can  partially explain why this is happening. 

 

Under certain circustances, Sl will push your video card to its max.  Things like max shadow resolution will drive up the gpu load. If you look at the perf cap reason it will say ulitiy. The reason it says utility is that the card truly does not feel there is a reason to ramp up to its boosted clock. This is why I modded my bios( I do not recommend this) it does however give me the max boosted clock speed while in a game like is. There is absolutely no reason why fps should tank other than SL was  built badly and they have no intention of inproving that. I vowed to never buy another video card with the focus of sl. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[left Reinard]

hello again! thanks for the reply!

i didn't know that processing thing is really complicate like that.

the link you gave me was really great.

it's really easy to understand that.

thank you so much for your help!

[left Reinard]

hello, thanks for the reply!

i've set "Quality of the shadow" level into 4.0 after saw your post.

as you told me, GPU load is goes high. it indicates 90% of GPU load. the FPS doesn't change that much.

i don't want fiddling with my new graphics card. that sounds really dangerous

thank you so much and have a great day!

[Ormand Lionheart]

Have you had someone get stats in comparison to yours with a different video card on the same SIM at the same time? Some SIMs are brutally slow. My GTX 780 gets higher fps if I overclock my cpu. Unparking my cpu cores will additionally increase fps. I'm guessing that high resolution monitor is dipping the fps too. I use a 1080P. On a screen with your resolution I thought that disabling AA entirely and you won't see the jaggies? And if you limit frames to 24-60 you will see even less Gpu utilization, less power use and lower temps. I have seen stated on the internet that a 1080 is bottlenecked by most cpus. Did you notice you have dropped some packets? Maybe that's an issue?

[DrakiAzul]

Hello Reinard - i've ran some video tests myself here showing GPU usage and settings. I find what you're reporting (20fps) a bit strange using an Nvidia 1080 GPU / i5 CPU combo because like yourself i'd expect it to bull-doze through even the un-optimized creations of SL excuses that most people tout. What you'll notice is strange in the video link below however is despite my system being much less powerful than yours and older im getting similar performance if not better. I've replied because like yourself I was saving up for a 1080Ti to replace my current for the dream of running SL smoothly but now im having second thoughts. To me, I think second life and/or the viewer creators just need to update their code to utilize new hard-ware better that seems more the issue than poorly built creations but im no expert.  Below is the link and specs:

CPU: Intel i3-3240 / GPU: R9-270 / RAM: 16GB DDR / - (Again far less powerful than the system you're using. Note recording knocks about 20fps off. If not recording i'd be sitting at around 40fps to 60fps under those conditions - Again this is for comparison purposes as I have no real solution to the issue but yeah, the 1080 is a beast and I was thinking of getting one myself for the same reasons)

.

 Youtube: "ASUS AMD R9-270 Direct CU II (2GB) - Overclock Testing - (Second Life)"

@0.50 to see settings

 

[Callum Meriman]

3 hours ago, DrakiAzul said:

What you'll notice is strange in the video link below however is despite my system being much less powerful than yours and older im getting similar performance if not better.

A lot happened in the full year and a bit since the OP posted his question. The 1080 drivers underwent improvements and the platform moved to 64 bit.

The other worm in the ointment as to why your "lesser system gets more FPS" is you are not in the same sim, looking in the same direction. User generated content does cause a hit.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Callum Meriman

[Theresa Tennyson]

On 7/6/2016 at 1:42 PM, DKTitan said:

I won't be able to give as elegant  analyse like the others but I can trutly state that based on the gpu-z in conjunction with Msi After burner, I can  partially explain why this is happening. 

 

Under certain circustances, Sl will push your video card to its max.  Things like max shadow resolution will drive up the gpu load. If you look at the perf cap reason it will say ulitiy. The reason it says utility is that the card truly does not feel there is a reason to ramp up to its boosted clock. This is why I modded my bios( I do not recommend this) it does however give me the max boosted clock speed while in a game like is. There is absolutely no reason why fps should tank other than SL was  built badly and they have no intention of inproving that. I vowed to never buy another video card with the focus of sl. 

 

Second Life was never "built" at all. It arrives in pieces and has to be assembled. With the way Second Life is intended to work (i.e. real time building from an extremely wide range of sources) there's no way around that.

[Love Zhaoying]

3 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

It arrives in pieces and has to be assembled.

Some assembly required, batteries not included.

[DrakiAzul]

Well, thats why I left the sim links visible in the video so he could test/compare it as he stated all sims hes getting less. Never said I was on the same sim as him so not sure why you even wanted to mention that as it seemed obvious that yes different areas will yield different result but from what hes said pretty much across the board busy sims/empty sims etc seemed to have issues in what he was describing. Maybe it was the drivers I dont know, again he can check and compare if he wants as can anyone else.

Edited December 6, 2017 by DrakiAzul
clarity

[Laokoon Lomu]

Not sure why there is no way to optimize SL as I am not a programmer. What I can say is, that Firestorm x64 is pulling on your hardware. An AMD Phenom II, 8 GB RAM and a 750 Ti did not cut it. Now with my new rig, much better. But we are talking about 8700K, 32 GB at 3 GHz, M.2 SSD, and a GTX 1080 Ti. That’s unnecessary.

When I started SL nearly a decade ago, the thing ran on an average laptop. With the greed for more and more detail, SL will run into the issue of being an elitist world. The hardware hunger locks potential participants and thus customers out. 

Edited December 16, 2017 by Laokoon Lomu

[Drake1 Nightfire]

I am running this set up.. 

CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) II X4 645 Processor (3099.99 MHz)
Memory: 18432 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 10 64-bit (Build 16299)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 650/PCIe/SSE2

Windows Graphics Driver Version: 23.21.0013.8813
OpenGL Version: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 388.13

RestrainedLove API: (disabled)
libcurl Version: libcurl/7.47.0 OpenSSL/1.0.1i zlib/1.2.8
J2C Decoder Version: KDU v7.9.1
Audio Driver Version: FMOD Ex 4.44.61
LLCEFLib/CEF Version: 1.5.3-(CEF-WIN-3.2526.1347-32)
LibVLC Version: 2.2.4
Voice Server Version: Vivox 4.6.0017.22050

Settings mode: Phoenix
Viewer Skin: Vintage (Classic)
Window size: 1366x705 px
Font Used: Deja Vu (96 dpi)
Font Size Adjustment: 0 pt
UI Scaling: 1
Draw distance: 96 m
Bandwidth: 1150 kbit/s
LOD factor: 2
Render quality: High (5/7)
Advanced Lighting Model: Yes
Texture memory: 384 MB (1)
VFS (cache) creation time (UTC): 2017-8-29T0:41:17 
Built with MSVC version 1800
Packets Lost: 14/42,228 (0.0%)
December 16 2017 06:00:57 SLT

With the snow falling i get between 25-30 FPS.

 

[Laokoon Lomu]

Don’t  wanna be mean or mock you, but I an empty sim with a little light snow that’s easy. Gotta pull the breaks at 60 FPS. But how about a crowded sim? With dozens of fully laden avatars and noumerous billboards and scripted items around? That’s where I only get to 40-50 FPS and with my old hardware at like... 10-ish? That’s SL experience, right? Not two people in a low lag sim. 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

21 minutes ago, Laokoon Lomu said:

Don’t  wanna be mean or mock you, but I an empty sim with a little light snow that’s easy. Gotta pull the breaks at 60 FPS. But how about a crowded sim? With dozens of fully laden avatars and noumerous billboards and scripted items around? That’s where I only get to 40-50 FPS and with my old hardware at like... 10-ish? That’s SL experience, right? Not two people in a low lag sim. 

Why do you need 40-60 FPS? How big is your monitor? Unless LL forces optimization of EVERYTHING in SL, you will not see awesome FPS without incredible hardware. I have seen jewelry with 1024 textures on it. Door knobs the same. If a .1M doorknob gets slapped with a 1024 texture, there will always be lower FPS. same with the idiots that use 1024 textures to make their falling snow. When was the actual last time you were around "dozens of fully laden avatars and noumerous billboards and scripted items" for more than a few seconds to hit  a mm board or lucky chair? clubs are mostly empty. and if you are there for the all the people and not the music, then you need to shift your thinking. 

There is a little thing called Jellydolls as well. Set your rendering cost limit and the ones above it turn fun colors. There really is no reason for anyone to walk around with an ARC of 300K, yet i see them all the time. Saw a woman yesterday with and arc over a million.. flexi everything. 

I have had the same set up for a couple of years now.. Never a complaint. if i want to take pictures on Ultra, i set it, take the pics and drop back to my standard settings. People think they can set to ultra and run around like COD or WOW.. You cant. Thats just reality. 

[Laokoon Lomu]

No one needs 50-60 FPS, but below 10 doesn’t make sense. Then I rather use AOL Messanger. Oh wait, that was retired today. Same for Jellydolls. Again, I sure know that, d’uh. But what sense does it make to use a chat software with an elaborate GUI, if I dismiss that GUI? Plus a good part of the economy of SL rests on people buying “stuff”.

And about the 1024 Bit door knobs and whatnot. Users will always use the possibilities you give them, to the full extent. 

And lastly, every club event is filled with avis. Why else be there? One thing is the music and else everyone “dresses” for the occasion. And the sex sims as well, oh sure no one was ever there, not even with an alt.

On a different note, I don’t use lucky chairs. They are a waste of time. Most of the things in SL you can buy for less then what’s a decent burger. Oh and, please don’t tell me that I have to shift my thinking. Everyone is in SL for their own reason.

Edited December 16, 2017 by Laokoon Lomu

[Penny Patton]

Something to consider. Here's my computer specs:

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600 CPU @ 3.40GHz 3.40GHz

12.0GB RAM

GeForce GTX 960 w/ 2GB VRAM

 

In sims I've built myself, my framerates consistently stay between 30-60fps. Way better than the OP is experiencing. My graphics settings are near Ultra. I have all the shiny features on plus a few extras like godrays. When I leave my own sims my framerates plummet to the teens or worse.

The problem is that content in SL is absurdly unoptimized for realtime 3D rendering. SL content creators use too many textures, and go excessively high-poly on avatar attachments since they don't have to worry about land impact costs for attachments. Some SL content creators simply don't know any better. Some will even argue that things like excessive use of high-res texture maps have impact on framerates. Some content creators do know better but assume they need to make poorly optimized content to compete with content creators who load up their creations with more texture memory than an entire AAA videogame level map. The end result is that SL looks worse and runs worse.

I get higher framerates and can run SL at higher graphics settings in my own sims because I optimize. This requires knowing how to optimize content (reducing texture use, sometimes completely retexturing content, getting rid of unnecessary pieces of content like store logos hidden inside clothing and hair pieces, detaching instead of hiding unused attachments, and sometimes just making your own content from scratch) so I'm not saying this is something the average SL user can do, but LL is going to be making this a bit easier by providing VRAM management  tools and the ability to derender avatars using absurd amounts of memory, and possibly even changing how Land Impact is calculated to encourage proper LOD use and discourage VRAM intensive in-world objects.

 LL will probably never give avatars the hard VRAM and draw weight caps they should have had in place from the beginning, but if you want to enjoy an SL with higher framerates then when LL rolls out the tools to derender laggy avatars you should use those tools and not be the person who turns jelly dolls off and then complains about their awful framerates. Maybe if people stop buying the content that kills their framerates, content creators will get their act together.