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Teagan Tobias

Fit Mesh is not Standard Size.

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I have been getting numerous demos of clothing that say they are Standard Size when in fact they are Fit Mesh.

Fit Mesh created to a Standard Size is still only Fit Mesh and fits the exact same way Fit Mesh fits the classic avatar, poorly.

If you are selling Fit Mesh and calling it Standard Size, you are lying to people, its not Standard Size, its Fit Mesh, call it that.

At least say, its Fit Mesh created to the Standard Size, because there is no relation between Fit Mesh and Standard Size, none at all, they do not fit the same and can not be adjusted for with sliders the same.

Fit Mesh has a place, it works for mesh avatars “if” it is created for that avatar.

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Fit mesh and standard rigged mesh are essentially the same. The only difference is that rigged mesh uses the original SL bones for rigging and fit mesh uses a newer skeleton fot rigging that has more attachment points, just like the new Bento skeleton will have even more. That's the only difference between them. You have to be sure that you have your avi set to the standard sizes numbers too. 

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It took quite a while for the liquid or Fit Mesh to come out after mesh came out, its different enough that it took time to make it work as badly as it does.

Fit Mesh clothing reacts to sliders, mesh clothing does not, and that is an absolutely enormous difference. And it is an enormous problem when trying to use fit mesh.

But besides that, what I have said the problem is, is that people are calling Fit Mesh, Standard Size Mesh, and it absolutely is not the same. You just said they are different too, and that is my point. Don't call Fit Mesh, Standard Size Mesh, because its not the same.

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agree

whats happening is that some designers (who dont yet have enough fitmesh experience) are scaling their fitmesh outfits using the same method used to scale the different standard size outfits

it rarely work this, as well as it might

when we see this after trying on the demo, we far more inclined to not buy the stuff, or even bother getting/trying on any more demos from that shop  

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it is defined, in the context that Standard Sizing is a measure subscribed to by designers who make rigged mesh garments to that measure, and also by shoppers who also subscribe to that understanding

that a merchant is selling product that is labelled as Standard Sizing and it isnt, is just misleading their potential customers. Even after getting into the ownership, semantics and meanings of the words Standard and Sizing and the codes XXS, XS, S, M, L and XL 

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Sassy Romano wrote:

"Standard Size" has no definition thus anyone can call their own item standard size.

You can call your items anything you like, but to refer to something that is defined, in this case Fit Mesh, by another name just to fool people into purchasing it, is underhanded, and makes you look unreliable.

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The problem there is that you've used the phrase "Standard Sizing" when Teagan said "Standard size".  They're not the same phrases and that's significant.

"Standard Sizing" is the set of botched horrid sizes (other than one of them) which define a number of shape parameters and would be recognised when used along with the logo that is available.  One significant full perm creator sells "5 sizes" which have nothing to do with the "Standard Sizing" 5 sizes.

To comment on Teagan's post, Fitmesh as described by LL assumes that the reference avatar for the mesh model is created around the base avatar model.  There's no requirement to set your avatar to this as was suggested by Bobby's post.  The offset from the base is already known in both cases.

So, "Fitted mesh" does indeed refer to the process of rigging to the volume bones where the base avatar is the reference model but Standard size, is exactly whatever the merchants chooses to call it.

Subtle but that's how it is.

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With all the different mesh bodies, and still the classic avatars, it is getting increasingly difficult to determine sizing period.  If mesh makers have the proper weights for each mesh body they can do fit mesh almost perfectly for that body.  I use pre made mesh templates for the outfits I texture simply because I do not have a 3Dmesh program that will export in the specific format LL requires.  Perhaps one day but for now I have to use the templates.  And they can vary a lot in sizing.  As for fit mesh, I have an alt I use for modelling sometimes and any fit mesh I make she tests for me on a regular classic body.  And so far I have not seen any problems with it.  I ususally include 5 sizes of fit mesh and as I said I have not seen any problems.  I stopped using the term "standard" sizing quite awhile ago.. Now I just say Sutable for Classic avatars and mesh bodies.. if it is fitmesh I state so and  offer a free demo..  and that's it.  The more complex the mesh thing gets the less able we are to state any specific sizing.

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Tazzie Tuque wrote:

With all the different mesh bodies, and still the classic avatars, it is getting increasingly difficult to determine sizing period.  If mesh makers have the proper weights for each mesh body they can do fit mesh almost perfectly for that body.  I use pre made mesh templates for the outfits I texture simply because I do not have a 3Dmesh program that will export in the specific format LL requires.  Perhaps one day but for now I have to use the templates.  And they can vary a lot in sizing.  As for fit mesh, I have an alt I use for modelling sometimes and any fit mesh I make she tests for me on a regular classic body.  And so far I have not seen any problems with it.  I ususally include 5 sizes of fit mesh and as I said I have not seen any problems.  I stopped using the term "standard" sizing quite awhile ago.. Now I just say Sutable for Classic avatars and mesh bodies..
if it is fitmesh I state so and  offer a free demo
..  and that's it.  The more complex the mesh thing gets the less able we are to state any specific sizing.

(Bolding by me)

 

Thank you very much Tazzie, that is exactly what I am asking for.

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I think the bottom line is pretty simple really, when I am looking at clothing to buy, I am not interested in a politician that is busy crafting and twisting words to get me to purchase something I don't want and can't use.

But we all know what is going on here, its the carrot to draw people in with a better product. If Standard Sizing (Size, what ever) is so bad, then distance your self from it and stop using it as the carrot before the bait and switch. And every creator that uses this tactic knows exactly what they are doing.

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Teagan Tobias wrote:

And every creator that uses this tactic knows exactly what they are doing.

That's a very strong and angry statement. Surely some are just making mistakes because the whole thing is so confusing.

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Somewhat angry, but more frustration that anyone would think not calling it Fit Mesh when it is,
is a viable option, sad at best.
And yes, some stores don't know that what they are selling is not Standard Size but Fit Mesh,
they only know what they have been told. But I think they are a minority.

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i just add on here some good news

came across this little shop today when I was running round. Never heard of it before. Is not a name brand. Was a giftee on the board. I get. A quite pretty dress

it came in Fitmesh-XS, Fitmesh-S and Fitmesh-M. So I try on the Fitmesh-S on my system avatar Standard Sizing-S. Is perfect fit. Wiggle on my dance. No alpha. No leaks

woohooo! well done that person (: Some people have worked out how to do this very well. Good on them and thanks (:

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I havent' found a single mesh that fits my default avatar "base male shape" Linden Labs shape without making me look frumpy or wearing big brother's hand me downs.

Even those that are close still have issues, just bought some mesh pants that looked alright, except there is about the equivalent of 2 inches from my stomach to the edge of the mesh pants.

Close, but not close enough.

Going back to my old style "Canada Jeans"  skinned texture mesh pants that I got at a freebie store when I first joined SL.

 

Must always try a demo. Cannot buy mesh without a demo, but I got sloppy.

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entity0x wrote:

I havent' found a single mesh that fits my default avatar "base male shape" Linden Labs shape without making me look frumpy or wearing big brother's hand me downs.

Even those that are close still have issues, just bought some mesh pants that looked alright, except there is about the equivalent of 2 inches from my stomach to the edge of the mesh pants.

Close, but not close enough.

Going back to my old style "Canada Jeans"  skinned texture mesh pants that I got at a freebie store when I first joined SL.

 

Must always try a demo. Cannot buy mesh without a demo, but I got sloppy.

Did you read the thread before posting about mesh that doesn't fit? Because the thread is about Fit Mesh, not ill fitting mesh.

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I'm still learning all the intricacies and terms used in SL.

I appreciate having know-it-alls like you around to correct me, thanks.

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entity0x wrote:

I'm still learning all the intricacies and terms used in SL.

I appreciate having know-it-alls like you around to correct me, thanks.

Anyone who has read the thread can plainly see there is something called FitMesh, whether they know what it means or not. Your problem is that you don't read threads before you start posting. 

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Sassy Romano wrote:

With mesh, no demo = no buy. 

Doesn't matter what it's called

QFT

I need to tattoo this on the back of my hand.  Every time I think I have bought so many things from designer X and they always fit so why get a demo, I get burned.

Every time.

 

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