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Nyrvachan

Avatar Creation for Total Morons - Info Needed Please

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Hello,

 

I want to say hello, and I'm totally new to Second Life- so far it's pretty cool. I'm kind of playing it off on the side, especially while there's the big "content drought" waiting for "Legion" to drop on World of Warcraft. But that's kind of why I'm here. I've already seen what people have done in terms of complete avatars. I have Sylvanas Windrunner already as a complete avatar that I got from the store with the virtual currency (not to mention a lot of stuff I got for free.)  

I would say I am a "complete noob" as far as anything with making and rendering 3D models. but I would very much love to have avatars of some of a couple of my WoW characters in SL.

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/illidan/Nyrva/simple

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/illidan/Milwaukee/simple

 

These are my blood elf hunter and my pandaren monk from World of Warcraft- two of my best toons- I also use WoW Model Viewer for making Machinima videos (I have my channel "Nyrvachan" on YouTube, my "Machinima" playlist" is where you can see what I do.) 

So it sometimes involves working with models from the game even though I'm not actually in the game. There are some export options. Once I have the model from the game into the program I can export as either a FBX or OBJ file, or I can choose ExportModel.xml.

Does anyone know how I can use either of these to create a model to import as an avatar for SecondLife? And again I am someone who knows nothing- so it has to be something a complete moron at this can do. I would appreciate any information or advice anyone has about this. And thank you in advance. :-)

-- Bigg Jim

aka Nyrvachan

 

 

 

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You evidently clicked though the Terms of Service without reading info on copyrights, trademarks and DMCAs  etc. etc. etc.  And then of course the is the mandetory Mesh Upload Quiz. 

 

In case you are actually a real person new to Second Life, the answer is NO. And of course what you are aksing about is also ILLEGAL. 

 

/me walks away shaking head - LOL.

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Your WoW avatar isnt really yours, regardless of how much time and emotion you've invested in it. All of the visuals still belong to WoW, so what you're asking us to do is to teach you how to bring stolen assets and intellectual property into SL. That's not going to go down well.

Have a read of this http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Intellectual_Property

If the IP owners file legal notice, LL is legally obligated to remove the stolen property from SL. This could well include what you have already purchased. You won't be compensated for the loss either. Your money will have gone to the thief.

If you're interested in being in SL rather than a WoW simulacrum and want to learn how to build, search inworld or online for building tutorials and classes. Builders Brewery has some good classes in the basics.

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Yes I am a real person new to second life.

Wow! pretty cold reception! I wasn't trying to do anything illegal. Actually that's a good point. I just didn't think of it that way. 

One thing I DO own is my own profile avatar art. But I wouldn't have a clue how to make an avatar based on that. I doubt you would tell me that either based on how you answered me here.

I'm interested in creating my own fantasy avatars either way- and of course, being legit. If I can't do the WoW ones fine, I'd want to do my own elf ones or something. The stuff I've found in game so far is kind of lackluster for looking how I want. 

It's not that I'm out to do anything illegal- I like fantasy-based characters. That's what I want to have. Sorry I asked.

 

 

 

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So predictable, someone asks about doing something, doesn't like the answer, and attacks the people who take the time to reply.

No good deed...

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And so Chic, your solution is to start a flame war with me?

You're just further showing me this is no place to come for help on anything. Thanks.

 

 

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You'll need to learn a 3D modeling application. Blender is free and popular. To help with character creation in Blender, you may want to look at the Avastar plug in.

 

This will not be a quick process to learn but every journey starts with the first step.

 

Suggest you also look on YouTube for Blender/Avastar tutorials.

 

Try not to take the comments you've received as hostile. It helps to understand that some merchants derive their RL income from the efforts of their content creation so suggestions about uploading content for which the uploader does not hold the rights, does tend to get a negative reaction.

 

Whether the intent was there or not, the complete dismissal of any consideration to the copyright holder doesn't exonerate the desire.

 

Welcome to SL and the forums though.

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Nyrvachan wrote:

And so Chic, your solution is to start a flame war with me?

You're just further showing me this is no place to come for help on anything. Thanks.

 

 

You replied to me not Chic. Chic is the one who took the time to provide you with important information that you said was "cold". 

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Hello, fellow WoW player! Human Holy Priest here. I'm so excited for Legion! Maybe then people will stop making a mockery of my spec... one can hope!

 

Yes, these forums can be about as toxic as the WoW ones. There are some great people here though, so you just need to shuffle through the crap to find the gems. There are a lot of very helpful people. Just remember though, Second Life is older than WoW. Some of these people have been here a loooooong time. They've seen every question imaginable ... like 1,000 times. So, yeah. They can sound like they belong in WoW Trade Chat at times. Oh well. I can't blame them.

 

Anyways, I understand what you meant about wanting your avatar in Second Life. You only have to wander around a bit to see that there are indeed copies of characters from popular media wandering around. The thing is, I guess that those were built by people, not imported. I think if you learn how to build in Second Life, you may be able to build a lookalike of your WoW toons. Since, again, I see fictional characters from popular media running around all the time.

 

Anyhow, good luck in your adventures!

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Nyrvachan wrote:

And so Chic, your solution is to start a flame war with me?

You're just further showing me this is no place to come for help on anything. Thanks.

 

 

You have no idea what a flamewar really looks like (definition from the urban dictionary: "A flame war is a heated argument between two individuals, that results in those involved posting personal attacks on each other during or instead of debating the topic at hand." )

Chic told you bluntly, that you did not pay attention to the terms of service, in a tone that showed how stunned she was, that you did not think twice if uploading game files from World of Warcraft might break copyright laws.  - Not heated and not a personal attack.

Bitsy also mentioned the copyright aspect of your question, explaining it a bit further and gave you a direct link to the policy in question. She closed her post by encouraging you to still experiance the building and creating aspects of Second Life by providing you with a place to learn (Builders Brewery). - even further from heated.

Pamela was a bit snarky about how you fulfilled her expection of not handling the hint for copyright breach well. Maybe not a pleasant comment, but still nothing to lose temper about. You only prove her right by that.

wherorangi linked you to a forum section that deals with mesh creation indepth (the thing you would need to learn, if you want to create an original mesh avatar).

So....why so offended? How do you survive any open chat in WoW with that thin skinned attitude?

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Nalytha wrote:

Hello, fellow WoW player! Human Holy Priest here. I'm so excited for Legion! Maybe then people will stop making a mockery of my spec... one can hope!

 

Yes, these forums can be about as toxic as the WoW ones. There are some great people here though, so you just need to shuffle through the crap to find the gems. There are a lot of very helpful people. Just remember though, Second Life is older than WoW. Some of these people have been here a loooooong time. They've seen every question imaginable ... like 1,000 times. So, yeah. They can sound like they belong in WoW Trade Chat at times. Oh well. I can't blame them.

 

Anyways, I understand what you meant about wanting your avatar in Second Life. You only have to wander around a bit to see that there are indeed copies of characters from popular media wandering around. The thing is, I guess that those were built by people, not imported. I think if you learn how to build in Second Life, you may be able to build a lookalike of your WoW toons. Since, again, I see fictional characters from popular media running around all the time.

 

Anyhow, good luck in your adventures!

These forums are about as untoxic as you will find anywhere. For one thing, if a thread becomes personal, it tends to poof. For another, people who do persistantly get personal tend to get ignored. 

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As much as I love this forum, it can be unapologetically condescending.... Any and all information could have been given to OP without Laughing at him or berating him for not closely reading the TOS..... No wonder new user retention is so low. Good luck in your future adventures Nyrvachan, peace and love! :heart:

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SAULGOODiE wrote:

As much as I love this forum, it can be unapologetically condescending.... Any and all information could have been given to OP without Laughing at him or berating him for not closely reading the TOS..... No wonder new user retention is so low. Good luck in your future adventures Nyrvachan, peace and love! :heart:

I don't see anyone either berating or laughing. Chic simply stated that he had not read the TOS, which everyone is responsible for and expected to do, and for very good reasons. Much grief can be avoided by reading the TOS. I guess she could have sugarcoated the information, but she did not deserve to accused of giving a cold reception.

Chic is very well informed on a wide variety of subjects and provides a great deal of support here and  Inworld, this forum is lucky to have her.

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No sugarcoating necessary. Answer the question with a simple yes or no (if you don't want to spend time explaining) and link the TOS.

 

We live in a world where we blindly check 'accept' to the plethora of TOSs that are thrown at us. There is no need to pretend that you read every single line of every single TOS you read. If you do, great. You've wasted countless days of your life. Congratulations.

 

When you have a question, yup. Referring to the TOS is great advice. Link the TOS and move on.

 

Edit... general reply meant.

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"LOL" -  means Lots of Laughs...... pretty hard to miss that one.....

"Walks away shaking head" - how on earth is that helpful in any way?

There wasn't even a useful direct link given by that post.

 

You don't need to "Sugar Coat" something with smily faces to not be Abrasive and Condecending. Who would read that post and even consider still learning about SL?....Maybe it seemed helpful to YOU because you have a better understanding of the situation, but not to a noob who stated many many times that they were new, uneducated and looking for advice. 

 

Regardless, I like to believe my comment applies to the entire forum and not just this thread, even though this thread now seems like a microcosm of the whole thing. 

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Nalytha wrote:

 

We live in a world where we blindly check 'accept' to the plethora of TOSs that are thrown at us.



Hmm, i'm sure i'm not unique in reading things like car hire agreements, insurance policies, TOS documents etc. before agreeing.

I went to use "Free wifi" the other day but then read the TOS and immediately discarded the option.

No, I don't agree to giving up all my data and accepting that it's ok to send my information to third parties, spam me with products and offers, use my phone SMS to send me junk texts, just to use the free wifi in the supermarket.

If you do blindly accept agreements, don't be surprised to end up on the wrong end of one of them one day.  Ever been on the wrong end of an insurance clause for example?

Even if you don't read every single part in detail, there really are parts that warrant some attention.

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Nyrvachan wrote:

 

Yes I am a real person new to second life.

 
. . . .

I'm interested in creating my own fantasy avatars either way- and of course, being legit. If I can't do the WoW ones fine, I'd want to do my own elf ones or something. The stuff I've found in game so far is kind of lackluster for looking how I want. 

It's not that I'm out to do anything illegal- I like fantasy-based characters. That's what I want to have. Sorry I asked.

 

 

 

No need to be sorry.  I think a big part of the reaction is that many here have seen similar questions asked by people who were only interested in importing regardless of whether it was legal or not.

I hope you do pursue learning to create your own characters.  There are several great modeling and texturing programs out there, so please don't just give up if you don't like Blender.  You'll find there are great creator communties inside and outside SL, especially for character creation.  

I'd call character creation a relatively rare skill in SL, so also don't be shy about taking your learning outside SL.  I would argue that the best resources are not found inworld, except for SL-specific subjects of course.  

(I've seen some very *cough* derivative classes given in SL for modeling applications. I've seen flat out wrong information and awful advice given out by inworld instructors.  I've also seen an inworld teacher who was truly an expert in a few areas of her program of choice, who taught information not available elsewhere.  Hopefully she goes back to teaching someday!)  

Going as close to the source as you can helps connect you to higher quality instruction, other serious students and/or professionals and sometimes the expert instructors themselves.

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SAULGOODiE wrote:

"
LOL" -  means Lots of Laughs...... pretty hard to miss that one.....

"Walks away shaking head" - how on earth is that helpful in any way?

There wasn't even a useful
given by that post.

 

You don't need to "Sugar Coat" something with smily faces to not be Abrasive and Condecending. Who would read that post and even consider still learning about SL?....Maybe it seemed helpful to YOU because you have a better understanding of the situation, but not to a noob who stated many many times that they were new, uneducated and looking for advice. 

 

Regardless, I like to believe my comment applies to the entire forum and not just this thread, even though this thread now seems like a microcosm of the whole thing. 

_____________________________________________

 I did not see it as laughing At the poster, but rather ironically laughing at the idea of of inquiring in a forum with creators how to go about infringing IP.

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i think we generally go off cues that are given us

like the OP topic word choice: "for total morons"

in which case then I will link to a source which a total moron can click on. And also point out an obvious which even a total moron can understand

had OP not said "for total morons" then I would have given the same link. and said something like: "is lots of info in here that can give you a idea of what is involved to get you started

if a person says or implies to me that they are a moron when they actual arent then I will treat them like a moron. If they are an actual moron then I will be a lot more circumspect in how I respond to them. As was shown by OP they are not a total moron

OP has a gamer culture background and knows how this goes

somedude: hey! ev1 imma total moron!!

next thing: blam blam blam blam blam ! as everyone else on the arena unloads on them

somedude: stop it !!!

everyone else: cmon man! u stop it. stop jerking round. fgs lets go

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I like the video Kevin Smith put out. I've kind of adopted the concepts myself.


"Why" vs "Why Not" people

The "Why" people are the negative people in your life- that question what you want to do. The people you don't want to listen to. "Why do you want to do this? what makes you think you can do this?" etc.

Chic Aeon going "shakes head and walks away" and Pamela Galli's comments, and a few others, and also comments about how "thin skinned" some on here think I am are clear examples of "Why" people- and not worth listening to. Or attempting to start a flame war while citing the urban dictionary about what THEY think a flame war is so they can justify being anti-social and toxic on a forum... whatever. It's not about being "thick skinned" to me- maybe it's about wanting to act like an ADULT and not a 12 year old forum troll. Those offering me negative feedback with nothing constructive, you're the "why" people, so there's nothing to listen to with you.

I concede the point that you cannot use this to recreate intellectual property owned by another party- though how you went about it as though I was someone trying to steal something. I was thinking purely from an artistic/creative standpoint, and didn't consider that. But I concede the point. Considering your otherwise toxic attitudes towards me you can be dismissed. I really don't care what you think. And you're wasting your time if you respond any further.

Those offering positive feedback that has something to offer, you are the "why not" people. thank you. I agree about the forums (so far) being as toxic as the WoW forums. Actually I think you describe most forums. There are some level-headed people, but most people chose to be toxic and say things they wouldn't dare say to someone IRL to their face. That's a fact.

The "Why Not" people are those who post positive comments and have good things to say, and encourage what someone wants to do. Those are always worth listening to.

I was thinking purely from a creative and artistic standpoint, and admittedly not thinking about the whole copyright thing I admit when I initially posted. For that I apologize and that was an error on my part. But yes, I may not be able to do "WoW characters", however I still want to create my own avatars of stuff I DO own intellectual property rights to. And there I DO have free reign. I just haven't a clue where to begin. Someone posted a link to a list of forum topics but sadly again- that's no better than a google search with a bunch of links that... I don't know where to start. There's still plenty of things I can do that constitutes original content ideas of my own. 

I am totally new to this game, simulation, or whatever you want to call it. And if some people don't like it that my wanting to create my own avatars cuts into their making virtual currency, maybe they should have offered to make something FOR me? (too late) I spend $30 a month for 2 WoW accounts to dual box for Pete's sake. So that's what I've got to say about that.

I named this "Avatar Creation for Total Morons" - because I am someone who knows absoultely nothing about this. And even if I want to make something completely from scratch that is my own complete original idea, I need something a complete "noob" and "novice" like myself who knows nothing about using 3D rendering programs can follow and understand. And like I said, I even have my own artwork I wouldn't mind doing avatars based on. If I can't do WoW avatars, so be it. I can live with that.

I got Blender off Steam for example. So now what? I even got Poser 9, but not sure that does anything that works with this at all.

Just know- if people want to be a "negative Nancy" I'm just going to ignore it from now on. If you got something positive or constructive to say, awesome! I'm totally gonna be into it. And that's with this or any other topic on the forums. Life's too short for the "why" people out there. 

Anyways, thanks again - especially to those who have been helpful here so far.

 

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Nyrvachan wrote:

 

I got Blender off Steam for example. So now what? I even got Poser 9, but not sure that does anything that works with this at all.

 

I took my first steps with Blender.  I found that I didn't really start to catch on until I found the "right" set of tutorials for me. 

My suggestion is searching out the very best beginner's tutorial series you can find.  I remember liking the offerings from Blender Cookie, Blender Guru, and Lynda.  I know at least one has a free trial.   Another has a big YouTube channel and is very active in the Blender community.  Make sure that whatever you end up with uses version 2.5 or later, and best case is as close to the version you downloaded as possible.  If you're completely new to creating in 3D space, learning to build in SL will also give you a great jump start.  You can also get quick, real time help from others.  In general, I'd be looking for tutorials from people who not only teach the specifics of how to make specific objects, but who take the time to really explain theory, proper techniques, and so on.

I've never used Poser.  If it helps, though, Blender has built in rigging and animation tools.  There is also a plug-in for Blender called Avastar that helps with making things work in SL.   You'll often find one of the creators of the plug in answering questions in the Mesh section of the forum and they also have an active group inworld.

This is a great time to be getting involved with avatar creation because Project Bento recently went live on the main grid.   SL can use all of the avatar creators it can get right now.

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If you're looking for a list of steps to make a custom mesh avatar, you probably won't find that.  It's a complex topic, I think.  In addition to the mesh area of the creation forum here, there is also the Creation Portal - Second Life Wiki that you might want to take a look at, at least to get a basic understanding of some things (the avatar/skin/clothes sections on a quick look seem to be prim-based, rather than the more recent mesh, but still may be interesting as some basic context info and background).  There is also a "Mesh" area in the Creation Portal. 

Also check what classes might be available through Builders Brewery inworld - I think I remember seeing some mesh or blender related classes being offered there.  There are also some online sites that offer classes in using Blender, as well as looking for youtube tutorials.  

I think it's the kind of thing you need to jump into, using resources you can find inworld or through googling or through web classes (like from Udemy, for example) and then once you've got a base understanding and start trying some things out, you can ask more specific questions here in the creation/mesh formums for more specific answers on a specific part of the creation process.  

I don't really build or create, but from what I've seen here in the forums, people get more focused answers when they've already started trying to build/create/script something, and can say what they've already done, the path they've taken, and then the problem that they have encountered.  I think creation skills are skills and knowledge that people have built up over the years, through experimentation and trial and error, and sharing tools and ideas between each other, so it's not an easy thing to distill into a list of simple steps for a complete beginner - especially when it comes to mesh items which are created entirely outside of SL. 

Good luck!

ETA: fixed some wording issues

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Quote "I concede the point that you cannot use this to recreate intellectual property owned by another party"

Then at least you got the point. Well done.

 

After that not much point quoting ( i'd sooner be grouting ) - if you actually understand the point then double points.

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Nyrvachan wrote:

"Why Not"

where to begin. Someone posted a link to a list of forum topics but sadly again- that's no better than a google search with a bunch of links

3D rendering programs

Blender

Poser

 google works good

when google for "secondlife avatar creation tutorial"

then heaps of secondlife avatar creation tutorials are listed, including heaps of youtube vids. including heaps for Blender and Gimp and Poser etc

why not you do that ?

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