Avatar Creation for Total Morons - Info Needed Please

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

What was wrong with my post? Would one of the critics please kindly tell me how it was so dreadful?

Working with mesh takes both out of world and inworld knowledge and skills. I suggested where to look to begin that process. Given the way the original post started (am in SL waiting for more WoW and want to import WoW avs and bought this WoW av already), was it so horrible I didn't write a massive post trying to teach someone new about building in SL when there is every chance the person will disappear when the new WoW content arrives?

Most of my post focused on the intellectual property aspect because most of the initial post focused on violating it. Getting that point home seemed rather important. I guess people could jump on me for not forseeing the common negative blame the messenger reaction to unwanted information. Should I have treated the poster like a child and made it all sweet and syrupy instead? Was I wrong to write with the assumption that he or she (or you, depending on who is reading this) was grown up enough to deal with the disappointment maturely?

Was it offensive to mention that the purchased WoW av could be removed from inventory without compensation? Surely that is worth knowing before any more money is risked. How about including the fact that making such purchases is supporting theft, should I not have done that?

If the original post had been about making fantasy avatars from original art work and designs, I would have directed the question to the mesh section in the creation forum because my knowledge doesn't include rigging or working with organic shapes. As it was, I saw an opportunity to flesh out Chic's post and add one which was a bit softer. Judging from the judgemental reactions from some of the readers, it feels like it was just a waste of my time.

If I did inadvertently write something objectionable, would someone please kindly point out to me what I did wrong? Thank you.

[Nyrvachan]

After reading some of the posts and not sure where to start with replies, I decided this-- I'm just going to flat out apologize to everyone- I'm new to this site. I asked for some information, albeit, it was something I didn't think through, and I didn't like some of the responses. So I apologize for my reaction if I came across wrong. I intended no offense or wrongdoing when I made my post- I just didn't think it through.

I'm someone with a creative buzz and this SL thing, while it's different than playing WoW or Skyrim or whatever other gaming I do- (I guess an online sim? I don't know what you call this.) I just see the potential with being able to create things. This site has been around for awhile too. So I guess I have an interest in seeing what I can do to create my own things. Yes, the idea of creating my WoW characters sounded cool until it was pointed out that's infringement. Like I said, I concede that point. I wasn't attempting to steal anything- it's just my thinking of the artistic aspect, I didn't consider the legal side of it when I asked. 

But I do have plenty of my own ideas so yes, I can actually make stuff I DO have the intellectual rights to as it were. So to that end, yes, it's about pursing creative aspirations based on that aspect. Some of you have already shared some ideas, thank you - I very much appreciate it. and I've been trying to see what I can find on YouTube. I got Blender from Steam- if there are other programs I can get "on the cheap" that will help me build character models and objects of my own I can import, I would like to know about them- and especially if they're on Steam. (Hey, Steam is having a big sale this weekend, ya know? Great time to grab this stuff. lol!) I don't think I could afford Maya or some of the expensive programs. But I'm interested in learning anything I can.

In my case I really just didn't know where to start. If you're totally new to SL and don't know "jack squat" about making things on here, where to start. Although in this first week I did figure out how to import textures and apply original images I created to an existing shirt model I have which allows it. It has "no transfer" permissions so it's just for my character, but that's OK. I figure I have to start somewhere.  I'm sure it's easier to learn to mod things, but create from scratch? I'd have no idea how to map out those t-shirt shapes so they come out right- for example, unless Blender does all that? I don't know. 

Anyways, once again, my apologies. And no hard feelings. :-)

 

 

 

[wherorangi]

good on you Nyrvachan (:

yes it can get a bit hard on forums sometimes. Sometimes justified, sometimes not. Is the internets yes (:

what you will find on this forums is that most of the people on here do know their stuff. Sometimes a person can be giving us a serve in one thread, and helping us in another on a different topic, at the same time (:

if get a bit stuck on any particular specific then just ask and will get help. People on here like us to be specific when asking for help. They dont have time (or much patience really) when we put them in a position to try and guess what the question is, nvm what the answers might be to unclear/unknown questions

so have a go at what you want to do, and just come back and ask on specifics anytime and somebody will help pretty much every time

all the best to you and that all will work out all good (:

 

 

[Codex Alpha]

Don't worry, you are right.

I"ve dealt with many people here since I started myself a few years ago. They are quick to condescend and point to any TOS violations, long before responding to the actual OP.

They seem to assume everyone is up to no good, and enjoy pointing out any mistakes.

There are several 'policy enforcer' types on this forum that seem to appear only when it suits them, and they are rarely seen posting actual answers or help to OPs.

If you can weather those users (you'll learn their names quickly), and keep patient, a few usually show up later in the topic with some real answers.

 

Your original question could have been answered without the concern about IP infringement. Learning Blender or Maya to even get to that point would take you months to learn and perfect - so I personally wouldn't even have addressed that at all at this point.

That being said, there is no specific learning path for avatar creation/rigging and importing of avatars into SL. The elitists keep the knowledge a very closely guarded secret - and refer to Avastar to get yet another sale, when probably it can all be done in Blender alone.

Some people are very helpful in SL, others rely on their avatar creation income to pay their mortgages and bills so don't like sharing their knowledge or secrets with other people - you will just have to find other ways to figure it out.

The times I run into SL users who make great tutorials and generously share their knowledge and experience through YouTube or other means - I always ensure to thank profusely - since it is so rare.

[Pamela Galli]

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entity0x wrote:

Don't worry, you are right.

I"ve dealt with many people here since I started myself a few years ago. They are quick to condescend and point to any TOS violations, long before responding to the actual OP.

They seem to assume everyone is up to no good, and enjoy pointing out any mistakes.

There are several 'policy enforcer' types on this forum that seem to appear only when it suits them, and they are rarely seen posting actual answers or help to OPs.

If you can weather those users (you'll learn their names quickly), and keep patient, a few usually show up later in the topic with some real answers.

 

Your original question could have been answered without the concern about IP infringement. Learning Blender or Maya to even get to that point would take you months to learn and perfect - so I personally wouldn't even have addressed that at all at this point.

That being said, there is no specific learning path for avatar creation/rigging and importing of avatars into SL. The elitists keep the knowledge a very closely guarded secret - and refer to Avastar to get yet another sale, when probably it can all be done in Blender alone.

Some people are very helpful in SL, others rely on their avatar creation income to pay their mortgages and bills so don't like sharing their knowledge or secrets with other people - you will just have to find other ways to figure it out.

The times I run into SL users who make great tutorials and generously share their knowledge and experience through YouTube or other means - I always ensure to thank profusely - since it is so rare.

---

Did you read the whole thread, and the OPs last post? 

People do not recommend Avastar "to get another sale" but because it is a time saver. Do you even know how much its creator has freely given to SL? Or even who its creator is?

[wherorangi]

---

entity0x wrote:

That being said, there is no specific learning path for avatar creation/rigging and importing of avatars into SL. The elitists keep the knowledge a very closely guarded secret - and refer to Avastar to get yet another sale, when probably it can all be done in Blender alone

---

actually it cant be done, not without writing your own Blender-SL exporter/importer to get a clean model, or manually going thru the xml and editing it all by hand 

also as well

the Avastar source code is available for those who do buy the tools. So is hardly a elite secret 

 

edt: typso

[Sassy Romano]

I don't believe that's correct.  Gaia has been instrumental in keeping the Collada export alive and integrated into Blender.  I just downloaded Blender 2.77a and in there is the Collada export with export to SL/Opensim option.

LL have always made the avatar files available.

[Sassy Romano]

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entity0x wrote:

Your original question could have been answered without the concern about IP infringement. Learning Blender or Maya to even get to that point would take you months to learn and perfect - so I personally wouldn't even have addressed that at all at this point.

That being said, there is no specific learning path for avatar creation/rigging and importing of avatars into SL. The elitists keep the knowledge a very closely guarded secret - and refer to Avastar to get yet another sale, when probably it can all be done in Blender alone.

---

Well i'm curious as to how you'd have answered the question without either referring to the rules that we subscribe to when joining or by how to create something by oneself?

As to the knowledge, it's easily obtained through a basic google search, there is no elitist path at all.  The issue is that there are many variables and it's not a "Click - Step - Do" operation but requires lots of attention, tweaking, testing and for that the methods need to be learned.

Avastar gets recommended because it's the tool which is analogous to the fridge/microwave/cooker/food processor all in one.  If someone would prefer to work with just a carving knife, a pile of wood and light a fire to cook on by rubbing sticks together then so be it.

Download the files direct from LL, they also have a base fitmesh rig to use.  Download Blender, stick them together and have at it, using the wealth of tutorials that DO NOT exist for this method. 

Or use Avatar Workbench, available for FREE from the same source as Avastar (see how much money they'll make from FREE?) but guess what, the feature set is smaller.  Use the limited number of tutorials available for this method.

Or...do as suggested, pay the money for the very excellent and deserving Avastar because it is hands down, the most supported, the most widely documented, most tutorial proflific method on how to create avatar type things for SL.  I get nothing in return for this recommendation, it's just the most sane and simple way of achieving a result.  Just like having a fancy car, you can own it and push it along the road or you can pay for fuel and have the pleasure of driving it.  Choice is down to the end customer.

 

[wherorangi]

yes correct

+

without Gaia and the Avastar team then there would be a elite

[Pamela Galli]

Entityox gets off on filling the forum with wrong advice and FUD, usually attributed to "the elites" that exclude him from their inner circle and have armies of alts, and based on one of his many negative encounters with one of these elites.

The fact that he knows nothing about Avastar doesn't mean he's unqualified to provide incorrect information about it.

[Codex Alpha]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

Entityox gets off on filling the forum with wrong advice and FUD, usually attributed to "the elites" that exclude him from their inner circle and have armies of alts, and based on one of his many negative encounters with one of these elites.

The fact that he knows nothing about Avastar doesn't mean he's unqualified to provide incorrect information about it.

---

You're great at making accusations against other members in SL, and misrepresenting their position and even their intent. Your appeal for allies is quite pathetic, and you should really stick to speaking for yourself.

 

This is what a forum is for - to voice and hear other opinions on a variety of issues - you seem to get upset at this kind of thing so I wonder why you're here participating.

My experience in SL is clearly different from yours, and I can recognize that as a possibility. Instead of attempting to discredit or defame me on here - perhaps you should recognize that other people's experiences in SL may be quite different from yours, and perhaps you should work to a solution for these issues, rather than adding to the existing toxicity.

I am 1 of 20 people left currently in SL. I stay because of its creative outlet mostly, and because I appreciate other's creations. Everyone else has left for a variety of issues - which I have outlined in other topics and posts.

I vocalize my opinions and concerns and observations because I care about the future of SL, the integrity of merchants and of the SL Marketplace, as well as to foster and encourage open and uncensored discussion of topics in SL IN ORDER TO IMPROVE THE EXPERIENCE FOR ALL.

Being an elitist, condescending or outright hostile is only going to demonstrate to new users that SL is not the place to be.

Your continued ad hominem attacks in every thread I participate in is very pathetic and rude. Perhaps it would suit you better to discuss the issues brought up, rather than the person behind them.

Good day to you.

 

---

Pamela Galli wrote:

People do not recommend Avastar "to get another sale" but because it is a time saver. Do you even know how much its creator has freely given to SL? Or even who its creator is?

---

And some of us want to learn how to work with the SL Avatar without the prerequisite to purchase Avastar, and want to learn how to do things from scratch (if possible) so we are learning how to do things directly, rather than using someone's plugins.

It's like a guy on YouTube who promotes his own 'Blender Format" and set of plugins, which alienates more new Blender users - and the result is he gets 138 views instead of 100,000 - because he's trying to sell a product and rope users into using his system.

I am aware of the creator of Avastar, and her videos from almost 10 years ago making a simple hat and other items got me started in the right direction.

I am also aware of how much the creator has freely given to SL as well - and is greatly appreciated. She's not the only one, as there are many others, including myself that contribute back to SL in any way they can.

---

Sassy Romano wrote:

I don't believe that's correct.  Gaia has been instrumental in keeping the Collada export alive and integrated into Blender.  I just downloaded Blender 2.77a and in there is the Collada export with export to SL/Opensim option.

LL have always made the avatar files available.

---

Yes thats why I want to find out how to work with SL avatars, rigging, animations within Blender without relying on Avastar - for those who are not concerned with saving time, but learning how to actually do things.

Surely you don't devalue such a position.

[Sassy Romano]

---

entity0x wrote:

Yes thats why I want to find out how to work with SL avatars, rigging, animations within Blender without relying on Avastar - for those who are not concerned with saving time, but

learning how to actually do things

.

Surely you don't devalue such a position.

---

Nope, continue but most people don't tend to first forge all their tools before carving masterpieces.  It's generally easier and accepted practice to buy the requisite tools, thus you don't find a wood craftsmans tutorial on carving starting first with how to dig iron ore, smelt it and forge it into a chisel!

If you wish to start from first principles using only what is provided in Blender, that's absolutely fine but then equally, don't complain when you cannot find the tutorials on how to do this when others are using blindingly obvious toolsets available to them.

Similarly, i'm still curious to know how you'd have answered the OP initial question without referring to either the TOS or how to create the item himself without referring to any tools, which is what I believe was implied by your earlier post.

 

 

 

[Pamela Galli]

---

entity0x wrote:

---

And some of us want to learn how to work with the SL Avatar without the prerequisite to purchase Avastar, and want to learn how to do things from scratch (if possible) so we are learning how to do things directly, rather than using someone's plugins.

It's like a guy on YouTube who promotes his own 'Blender Format" and set of plugins, which alienates more new Blender users - and the result is he gets 138 views instead of 100,000 - because he's trying to sell a product and rope users into using his system.

I am aware of the creator of Avastar, and her videos from almost 10 years ago making a simple hat and other items got me started in the right direction.

I am also aware of how much the creator has freely given to SL as well - and is greatly appreciated. She's not the only one, as there are many others, including myself that contribute back to SL in any way they can.

---

Yes thats why I want to find out how to work with SL avatars, rigging, animations within Blender without relying on Avastar - for those who are not concerned with saving time, but

learning how to actually do things

.

Surely you don't devalue such a position.

---

Such back pedaling!  What you actually advised the OP was:

"The elitists keep the knowledge a very closely guarded secret - and refer to Avastar to get yet another sale, when probably it can all be done in Blender alone."

 

 

[Codex Alpha]

---

Sassy Romano wrote:

---

entity0x wrote:

Yes thats why I want to find out how to work with SL avatars, rigging, animations within Blender without relying on Avastar - for those who are not concerned with saving time, but

learning how to actually do things

.

Surely you don't devalue such a position.

---

Nope, continue but most people don't tend to first forge all their tools before carving masterpieces.  It's generally easier and accepted practice to buy the requisite tools, thus you don't find a wood craftsmans tutorial on carving starting first with how to dig iron ore, smelt it and forge it into a chisel!

If you wish to start from first principles using only what is provided in Blender, that's absolutely fine but then equally, don't complain when you cannot find the tutorials on how to do this when others are using blindingly obvious toolsets available to them.

Similarly, i'm still curious to know how you'd have answered the OP initial question without referring to either the TOS or how to create the item himself without referring to any tools, which is what I believe was implied by your earlier post.

 

 

 

---

Although you have made a valid point, you kinda went to the extreme with it.

Let's rein it back a little into something more realistic and comparable.

If one wants to become a master woodcraftsman, one may not want to start with power tools, power tables, nor power saws. In fact, I know carpenters who started out their Apprenticeships in what are called 'Foundation Programs" where they DID start with chisels and handsaws - in order to get experience with the most basic of joining two pieces of wood together (even more so for Joinery/CabinetMaker apprentices).

Of course they wouldn't learn how to smelt ore to make the chisels, you're just being silly.

Hey, one day I may check out Avastar, and I'm not against it. It's just that its all I have found in tutorials and such is Avastar, Avastar, Avastar. It doesn't teach me how to use the chisel - which will allow me to use the learned skill for a variety of projects in the future in Blender - whereas Avastar is SL-Centric.

Also some of us DO want to use the chisel to start, because we DO want to become masters. There are so many plugins to be used in Blender and 'add-ons' and 'themes' and 'formats', and thats fine if thats what you want. But as a student and wannabe Master, I want to learn the basics first, how it all works bare-bones, THEN i can program the Python script to save myself time.

Many people's solutions in life is to simply 'throw more money at it", and though I'm sure Avastar is good for some, it may not be for others (monetarily or otherwise) so promotion of non-Avastar links can be appreciated too.

Its not complaining, negative or demeaning to Gaia Clary to want to find a non-Avastar solution for the reasons I have mentioned. We all have different needs and learning paths, so why make it an issue.

[Sassy Romano]

Ok well Avastar workbench may be useful even though it's a starting point and use that as a learning tool. 

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

Could it be your approach, entity? The forum regulars have been great to me.

Btw, the discrepancy between what's available in tutorials was one of the pluses Sassy gave for Avastar. It doesn't seem fair to blame Avastar users for not making other sorts of tutorials. I wish there were more tutorials available for static items geared towards the concerns of SL but I'm not going to harsh on the tutorial makers for showing what works for them and their concerns.

As I understand it, you want SL-specific tutorials which don't use a commonly used SL-specific tool. Perhaps you can take a moment to realise that this is going to be a rather narrow field.

[wherorangi]

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entity0x wrote:

as a student and wannabe Master, I want to learn the basics first, how it all works bare-bones, THEN i can program the Python script to save myself time

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in this case then students who wanna be masters, start with a cube. Then learn all the tools in the toolbox, working with the cube. Then after become familiar with all the tools then move on and on to more complex shapes using the tools until have a thorough knowledge of the tools and complex shapes

is lots of tuts and help on what each of the tools are, what is their purpose, and what effects they can have on the shapes

by the time you get to avatars then you will already be a master crafter, expert in the tools, so should be pretty easy by then to make a avatar

[Pamela Galli]

The point is not that entityox wants to do things the hard way -- or so he says, as he has never made an avatar himself-- but that he advises the OP to follow suit -- and explains that those who advise Avastar are just elitists who are trying to put money in their pockets! 

The truth is that Avastar is a wonderful benefit to the community, no one is being paid to shill for it.

[Rhonda Huntress]

Why are you spamming links to (supposedly) youtube videos?  Do you need the post count or do you just need the clicks for something?

 

[ETA]

Oh!  Pamela has a stalker.  Congratulations, Pam, you have earned an Achievement!