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Security Orb Creators and Owners

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Posted (edited)

I'm glad for the updated rules for the Linden Homes.  I realize that the Mainland has all sorts of people with all sorts of opinions and I'm not sure I think a change of rules there is a good idea.  However, the Linden Homes already have a tight covenant to preserve the 'look and feel' and thus the new Security/Privacy rules are very applicable there.

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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The first is that at 6am SLT on Wed April 17th, we are going to uncheck the box on the Linden Homes estate that allows parcel owners access restrictions to be more restrictive than the estate. Meaning: no ban lines. It's our belief that with a sense of community being a main goal of Linden Homes, ban lines send the wrong message. Parcel owners can still ban troublesome individuals by name on their parcel but they will not be able to put their land in virtual lock down by restricting access t o group onl y .

. . .

You may use your personal security orbs or devices in Linden Homes for now, but early next week: we are going to provide you with an approved device via the Linden Homes Content Packs. It will work just as aggressively in protecting your homes from unwanted intrusion, but still reasonably allow Residents to explore without fear of being ejected or teleported home without warning.

It's almost as though they've been following this thread . . .

The blog post isn't explicit, but it seems to suggest that security orbs will not be permitted to cover the space above the parcel higher than 500m.

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27 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It's almost as though they've been following this thread . . .

The blog post isn't explicit, but it seems to suggest that security orbs will not be permitted to cover the space above the parcel higher than 500m.

I think we'll be allow to use them in our skyboxes above 2000 m.   I assume that we'll be limited in how high above mainland we can use them - maybe not even the full 500 m.  Heck, ban lines only go to 50m, if my memory is correct.  You don't really need to go all the way to 500m in order to keep people out of your home and "immediate" land area.

 

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5 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I think we'll be allow to use them in our skyboxes above 2000 m.   I assume that we'll be limited in how high above mainland we can use them - maybe not even the full 500 m.  Heck, ban lines only go to 50m, if my memory is correct.  You don't really need to go all the way to 500m in order to keep people out of your home and "immediate" land area.

 

So, that would imply a clear corridor for vehicles between (hypothetically) 500m and 2000m. Which seems reasonable, and should keep most people happy.

It doesn't address Blush's concern, however, that someone could hover over her parcel and cam in. I'm not sure how that can be addressed . . . except being watchful, and manually blacklisting anyone who seems to be lingering over one's house.

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37 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

So, that would imply a clear corridor for vehicles between (hypothetically) 500m and 2000m. Which seems reasonable, and should keep most people happy.

It doesn't address Blush's concern, however, that someone could hover over her parcel and cam in. I'm not sure how that can be addressed . . . except being watchful, and manually blacklisting anyone who seems to be lingering over one's house.

If they did allow the orb to apply up to 500m and then 1500m and above, that would handle most hovering peeping toms because they'd be roughly 500m away from you and thus would have to set the draw distance to that or more to see you and a lot of people's computer just flat can't handle a draw distance that high.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

So, that would imply a clear corridor for vehicles between (hypothetically) 500m and 2000m. Which seems reasonable, and should keep most people happy.

It doesn't address Blush's concern, however, that someone could hover over her parcel and cam in. I'm not sure how that can be addressed . . . except being watchful, and manually blacklisting anyone who seems to be lingering over one's house.

I hadn't planned on using an orb on either of my Linden Home parcels, and I nearly never use ban lines as I hate them anyway. My only concern if I should find that I need one is the length of time before being kicked. Considering how small a 1024 is there is no reason to need more than 20 seconds to clear a parcel. I will be watching when I'm in my home and if I see anyone tarrying that I do not personally know they will get put on my ban list. I do greet my neighbors and those passing by as I am a friendly sort, but I will be on my guard for suspicious characters. 

I still have a small .. tiny .. parcel on mainland that is guarded by an orb so if I need a sanctuary I have one ready.

Edited by Blush Bravin
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On a bodged up sim crossing it is often not a bad idea to be patient for a minute for the handover to complete. You are there watching yourself flying through the air, meanwhile to others you could appear to be anywhere. It will feel like adding insult to injury if you end up with a perma ban as a result. 

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7 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

If they did allow the orb to apply up to 500m and then 1500m and above, that would handle most hovering peeping toms because they'd be roughly 500m away from you and thus would have to set the draw distance to that or more to see you and a lot of people's computer just flat can't handle a draw distance that high.

camming in has nothing to do with draw distance. My draw distance is set to 128 but I can cam in from 1000's of metres

 

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1 hour ago, KanryDrago said:

camming in has nothing to do with draw distance. My draw distance is set to 128 but I can cam in from 1000's of metres

 

Indeed. Long ago, Draw Distance meant a radius around the avatar but they changed it at some point to mean a radius around the camera. 

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Posted (edited)

I have to laugh at the insecurity of being looked at in Second Life in our homes. I remember the days when there was no option to be invisible inside your sim. We spend small fortunes for hair and mesh bodies and Catwa heads so we can look fabulous yet when someone does look at us, we go insane and want to ban everybody. If someone needs to see us doing the nasty so bad, who cares! It is a pixel cartoon character playing dressup and house in a virtual world. People need to loosen their uptights!

When we TP to a crowded place we are totally naked until we rezz so everyone seen it all and noone cares!

Edited by Ziggy Starsmith
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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Ziggy Starsmith said:

I have to laugh at the insecurity of being looked at in Second Life in our homes.

who cares! It is a pixel cartoon character playing dressup and house in a virtual world. People need to loosen their uptights!

the problem isn't that people can see, but that people report .. and i really wouldn't like to get everyone for dinner tonight that got banned or suspended for that during the years.
Logic in support is sometimes not that logic in these matters.

Edited by Ethan Paslong

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Posted (edited)

If your inside your home and someone reports you nothing is done. One of the Lindens already addressed this in one of the posts. They cam into your private space then it is their risk of seeing a huge, sexy cartoon wing ding 😉 lol

From Abnor Mole:" I'm guessing you are referring to what happens if you have the parcel set so people can't see you from outside the parcel but also can't block anyone and everyone from entering. If you've made every reasonable effort to abide by the "behind closed doors" rule they can't really complain if they walk into your property and happen to see something "shocking" in the process can they? Well, they *can* complain, but ARs like that would probably end up in the circular file I'd imagine. "

Edited by Ziggy Starsmith
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Ziggy Starsmith said:

I have to laugh at the insecurity of being looked at in Second Life in our homes. I remember the days when there was no option to be invisible inside your sim. We spend small fortunes for hair and mesh bodies and Catwa heads so we can look fabulous yet when someone does look at us, we go insane and want to ban everybody. If someone needs to see us doing the nasty so bad, who cares! It is a pixel cartoon character playing dressup and house in a virtual world. People need to loosen their uptights!

When we TP to a crowded place we are totally naked until we rezz so everyone seen it all and noone cares!

Ah the I don't care so nobody should care argument. Some of us have homes because we like to be able to be private and away from prying eyes and that is largely why we got them. There are obviously a lot of people that come in that category else the labs wouldn't have felt pressured into implementing it.

Edited by KanryDrago
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2 hours ago, Ziggy Starsmith said:

I have to laugh at the insecurity of being looked at in Second Life in our homes. I remember the days when there was no option to be invisible inside your sim. We spend small fortunes for hair and mesh bodies and Catwa heads so we can look fabulous yet when someone does look at us, we go insane and want to ban everybody. If someone needs to see us doing the nasty so bad, who cares! It is a pixel cartoon character playing dressup and house in a virtual world. People need to loosen their uptights!

When we TP to a crowded place we are totally naked until we rezz so everyone seen it all and noone cares!

I think it's rather sad that you are laughing at people for having a sense of modesty. I don't laugh at those who choose to do things differently than I do and would hope that others have that viewpoint. So what that I don't get why someone may want to do something the way they do. To each their own. It's my choice to not have my bits on display unless I want them visible. And I'm not alone in that viewpoint. Granted I'm rather in the minority but there are those of us who go through the effort to find a way to cover up our bits even when arriving at a crowded venue with our bodies all floating around crazily while we rez. 

Come on give a little respect please.

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That one does things like that as a matter of course, Blush. 

You should see how they act when a TPV has problems... 

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4 hours ago, Ziggy Starsmith said:

I have to laugh at the insecurity of being looked at in Second Life in our homes.

Ziggy, it's only the feelings/perceptions that we choose to give something (in SL or RL) that makes it anything at all.
I don't judge people who prefer not to invest emotionally in experiences or pixels in SL, nor do I judge those as wrong who do invest their feelings.
I totally understand that you are choosing not to invest emotionally in your pixels and would feel silly in doing so -- because that's how you feel. I only wish you'd give consideration to the other side as well.

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It seems to me that the way to approach this is a sort of experiment, or trial run of a new approach that seeks to work a compromise between two very polarized groups.

Up to now, those who value "privacy" and "security" (which terms frankly seem, sometimes, to be code for a kind of absolutist egoism, best summed up by the "My land, my rules" mantra) have pretty much had their own way. This move redresses that imbalance somewhat. Although some of the details (particularly about how the new security orbs will function) are still unclear, the new approach that LL is signalling for this new continent does not give vehicle users everything they might have wished for, but rather seeks to accommodate their basic requirements within a framework that still cedes a lot of control to the owner of each parcel.

What should be clear, given the frequency with which we find ourselves returning to this issue, is that the current system does not work.

I call this an "experiment" because, obviously, we don't yet know how well it will function. Like most compromises, it's inevitably going to leave absolutists on both sides of this issue unsatisfied. But, even given that there will no doubt be some bumpy moments as this is implemented, I think it's likely to seem acceptable to the vast majority of those who understand that a civil society requires, not merely compromise, but an acknowledgement that the perspectives and needs of everyone need to be accommodated as fully as possible.

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2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It seems to me that the way to approach this is a sort of experiment, or trial run of a new approach that seeks to work a compromise between two very polarized groups.

That's arguably why LL are rolling out these changes to just the Linden Home regions rather than the entire mainland. Make these two minor changes to an area in which LL is the landowner and the user is the tenant (as opposed to the 'landowner' status of private mainland parcels), see how things go, and re-evaluate. We could see these changes rolled out across the entirety of the mainland, or we could see these changes reversed. Depends entirely on the macro-response to the changes, and not a couple of mad people making angery postings.

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4 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

That's arguably why LL are rolling out these changes to just the Linden Home regions rather than the entire mainland. Make these two minor changes to an area in which LL is the landowner and the user is the tenant (as opposed to the 'landowner' status of private mainland parcels), see how things go, and re-evaluate. We could see these changes rolled out across the entirety of the mainland, or we could see these changes reversed. Depends entirely on the macro-response to the changes, and not a couple of mad people making angery postings.

Exactly, and especially your last sentence.

Nothing short of complete victory and/or unconditional surrender is going to satisfy the really angry voices on both sides, but I think there's a real chance that this will satisfy the vast majority of the rest of us. LL will also have the opportunity -- and the data -- to tweak this over time. If it works as I think it will, I very much hope that it will be applied to the rest of the mainland. I think it will at least contribute to reviving the other continents somewhat.

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Point blank, if they're going to do anything at all related to said changes they need to keep them right where they are. 

There is no reason whatsoever to roll them anywhere else. 

Especially with how much they charge for Tier, coupled with the absolutely insane prices users place on Mainland plots. 

"Go to an Estate then!"

No.

Go buy or rent your own sim. 

See how that "works"?

Keep saying you want a community or a collaboration... It goes both ways you know. 

Personally, I'd have no problem with Linden Lab making a whole Continent with access ways and such for vehicle users built in. 

Do not force it on existing plots. Ever. 

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Posted (edited)

I thought they are rolling those changes only around new Linden homes because those don't allow skyboxes to begin with? Someone correct me if I'm wrong and they did adjust the rules for the new area.

Because otherwise for other mainland parcels it's not a viable solution. People do live in skyboxes there, some have them on different altitudes. I doubt LL will want to restrict privacy/security for residents there or dictate how they can use their parcels. Like a certain person keeps suggesting in every other mainland thread - forcing everyone to live on the ground. Maybe have other plans to disable teleports on mainland too and force everyone to use vehicles. Because... realism!

I mean LL could do that, but I really doubt they would. Mainland already looks like a loss for LL when it comes to revenue. With private regions it's simple - someone always pays a tier, be it a landlord subrenting it to other people or someone directly paying to LL. People stop paying - region removed, server space/resources saved. Mainland regions, however, are always there, 24/7, even if they are completely abandoned. And there's a lot of abandoned land around. I wonder how many of ~7800 LL owned regions could be taken offline if they weren't the mainland ones. So further restricting on how people can use their mainland LL would risk to push even more people into private regions making even more mainland into lifeless desert that no one pays for, because I'd imagine a lot of people would want to keep their skyboxes for all kinds of reasons. Especially I'm talking about large parcels, because even if someone loves to live on the ground level there are some things that better if they are put somewhere else. For example in my region I have the usual cozy lakes and forest kind of place, with a few houses, forest paths in between and other matching stuff. And in the skies I have some very nsfw facilities, which would be plain ugly from the outside if I left it on the ground, plus I'd have to cut into the forests to make space for them and make my home less of how I'd want it to be.

LL could drop the mainland tier to make it more appealing, though. But it's already 70$/month cheaper for full region compared to private regions and I don't see it helping too much, there's more that twice as many private regions on the grid now and like I said earlier, none of them are really abandoned, like a good portional of the mainland.

Just in case, "I have no beef" in that argument. I never liked the idea of "living in a community", so first parcels I did rent were in private regions already and yes, they had banlines and a security orb with 20s warning, then many years after I did get my own region which is closed to the random visitors completely. I'm also not really interested in sailing/flying so others' orbs never bothered me, but I will agree that instant kick ones are pretty unnecessary, though. There were many cases when I teleported to what should have been a store and got instantly kicked by someone's orb, so I think 15-30s range is fine, it leaves people time to press the teleport back button. So yeah, I don't really care either way, but I strongly support the "privacy group".

Edited by steeljane42
typos

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5 minutes ago, steeljane42 said:

I thought they are rolling those changes only around new Linden homes because those don't allow skyboxes to begin with? Someone correct me if I'm wrong and they did adjust the rules for the new area.

Because otherwise for other mainland parcels it's not a viable solution. People do live in skyboxes there, some have them on different altitudes. I doubt LL will want to restrict privacy/security for residents there or dictate how they can use their parcels. Like a certain person keeps suggesting in every other mainland thread - forcing everyone to live on the ground. Maybe have other plans to disable teleports on mainland too and force everyone to use vehicles. Because... realism!

Skyboxes are permitted in the new Linden Homes. They are just restricted to 2000 m and above.

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1 hour ago, Solar Legion said:

Point blank, if they're going to do anything at all related to said changes they need to keep them right where they are. 

There is no reason whatsoever to roll them anywhere else. 

Especially with how much they charge for Tier, coupled with the absolutely insane prices users place on Mainland plots. 

"Go to an Estate then!"

No.

Go buy or rent your own sim. 

See how that "works"?

Keep saying you want a community or a collaboration... It goes both ways you know. 

Personally, I'd have no problem with Linden Lab making a whole Continent with access ways and such for vehicle users built in. 

Do not force it on existing plots. Ever. 

Sooo, who's telling the actual landowner (Linden Lab) what to do with their land now? I pay my landlord for my apartment but that doesn't mean they have to listen to what I say about how they run their business outside of my lease agreement with them.

I don't necessarily disagree with you; just enjoying my midday irony supplement. Yummy!

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7 hours ago, KanryDrago said:

camming in has nothing to do with draw distance. My draw distance is set to 128 but I can cam in from 1000's of metres

 

True, but you still have to be able to focus your camera on something and if there is nothing within your draw distance to focus on it is more difficult to zoom in on anything.

 

 

1 hour ago, AyelaNewLife said:

That's arguably why LL are rolling out these changes to just the Linden Home regions rather than the entire mainland. Make these two minor changes to an area in which LL is the landowner and the user is the tenant (as opposed to the 'landowner' status of private mainland parcels), see how things go, and re-evaluate. We could see these changes rolled out across the entirety of the mainland, or we could see these changes reversed. Depends entirely on the macro-response to the changes, and not a couple of mad people making angery postings.

I honestly don't see them ever rolling out the same ban line / security orb rules for all of Mainland.

 

 

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