Security Orb Creators and Owners

[Solar Legion]

32 minutes ago, BlackBlade Smit said:

That's 100% accurate. And people have a right to petition LL to take measures to prevent the issue from continuing by restricting certain "security" options that have been shown to be overkill as well as abused in many situations in order to purposefully hinder access to things like airports. Yes, that happens. People buy land right next to an airport JUST because said airport pissed them off and they had a few extra m2 to fill in their tier level, so they get the land and erect ban lines with the sole purpose of interrupting air traffic to and from the airport. There are many other scenarios where this is a serious issue.

Welcome to life - Second or not.

Petty people exist, deal with it.

[Solar Legion]

5 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Welcome to life - Second or not.

Petty people exist, deal with it.

Now, to put the above a somewhat gentler way: Yes, there are some who will set their security systems up to give very little warning. There are some who will snap up a parcel near an airport or other vehicle rez zone just to spite a user who has "crossed" them ...

And your answer amounts to adding in official restrictions that affect everyone in an effort to stick it to someone that will eventually forget why they have that parcel and move on or to stick it to a user you feel is impeding your enjoyment?

Seriously?

Vehicle users are not the only group within Second Life. You do not have Carte Blanche to go wherever you please, just because it pleases you. And yes, that is how that comes across - "How dare another user prevent me from passing over/through a parcel they pay for! The very nerve!"

Contrary to popular belief, Mainland does not exist solely for exploration nor is anyone required to treat it as a community asset - thankfully.

Yes, Second Life is not Real Life and thus the traditional notions of privacy don't really work here. Guess what? That cuts the other way too: In Second Life, a parcel owner has every "right" to decide they do not want you passing through or flying over their parcel.

Over the years Linden Lab (wisely) has not restricted or changed that.

The most they have done is incorporated a set of suggestions Into their ToS and CS. That seems to not be enough for some ...and honestly with the attitude some show on this topic (and the attitudes shown through the years for that matter) it seems as though nothing whatsoever would be enough.

There are protected roadways and water channels as well as entire sim areas wherein air travel is also protected.

That ought to be enough. If it isn't ... well that's just tough.

[Chaser Zaks]

I've invented a security orb that uses quantum computing that will detect if you will be on my land today and it will go ahead and file a abuse report so Linden Lab can permanently ban your avatar so no one has any problems as long as you don't plan on going on my land today.

[Qie Niangao]

There are some airports built in unsuitable locations. If the end of the runway isn't adjacent Linden protected land, there needs to be at least a half-sim of empty space between it and the next non-associated landowner, to have plenty of room to climb above potential banlines. If that empty space is abandoned land and the Lab finds a buyer, then yeah: airport is over, need to find a different location. And there are good locations available, too; they may be expensive, but that's the market, so if it's too much to pay, airport ownership isn't for you right now. SL aviation will survive.

I'm less sympathetic to "shoot 'em down immediately [at any altitude] when I'm not around cuz it's my land and whatever I say goes." It's true, and there's nothing anybody can do about it. Same with the cranky old RL dude on the rundown porch shouting "Gif off'n mah lawn, ya PUNKS." Can't legislate common sense... but there aren't any of those in my RL neighborhood. In SL, though, it's harder to price the crotchety ol' geezers out of the market. But maybe we can help them find cheap assisted living somewhere else.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Qie Niangao

[Kyrah Abattoir]

14 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

There is no "land role play" going on where parcel owners wanting a bit more "privacy" are concerned. 

By thinking along those lines you are -indeed - trying to present the subjective as objective. 

No incentives of any sort should be offered or used to weight a user's decision in either direction. Yes yes, Estates can add a further Land Impact bonus if the owner is willing to pay extra, I am aware. 

That's beside the point. 

Here's the bottom line: If you're not paying for it, you do not get to decide what access permissions or other security options a user has on their parcel. 

Linden Lab does. 

We all agree on this I believe.

But it goes both ways, you don't get to dictate what behavior people should follow on land that you do not own.

[Theresa Tennyson]

2 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

Contrary to popular belief, Mainland does not exist solely for exploration nor is anyone required to treat it as a community asset - thankfully.

There was nothing saying you couldn't run an ad farm until there was.

[AyelaNewLife]

I haven't checked this thread in a few days, are we still going around in circles with the whole "landowners have the right to be bads, and you have the right to call them bads" thing still?

[Resi Pfeffer]

16 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

I haven't checked this thread in a few days, are we still going around in circles with the whole "landowners have the right to be bads, and you have the right to call them bads" thing still?

Im sure you still can order another bucket filled with popcorn.

[Selene Gregoire]

6 hours ago, Chaser Zaks said:

I've invented a security orb that uses quantum computing that will detect if you will be on my land today and it will go ahead and file a abuse report so Linden Lab can permanently ban your avatar so no one has any problems as long as you don't plan on going on my land today.

[Rufferta]

I realize this is probably passive-aggressive behavior, but if I'm ejected by a security orb in less than ten seconds, I just add the name of the owner to my 'block' lists. I have a pathetic hope that one day one of these owners will try to walk across my lawn (otherwise left public) and get blocked. I used to send polite notes like 'hey, did you know your security orb has a trigger finger?' but that didn't seem to change behavior.

I never intentionally try to enter private space, usually I get zapped when I'm exploring Mainland and click to teleport on what I think is public land. Last time this happened was when I tried to land on a road outside of a property I had sold, wanting to see what had been done with it. I was instantly ejected, so I have no idea how far off the target I landed. 

I think I'll add a note to my property descriptions "If you've been blocked from entering this space, it's because you have a security orb which zaps without warning."

 

Edited April 2, 2019 by Rufferta
correcting spelling

[Solar Legion]

6 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

There was nothing saying you couldn't run an ad farm until there was.

That's nice. 

Read back a bit in the thread, you'll find that that was already covered. 

[Luna Bliss]

On ‎6‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 12:37 PM, Slee Mayo said:

If you're so paranoid of agents entering your parcel(those that have their orb set from 1-10 seconds), use an allow list, save the server the script memory/time and explorers the hassle of having their expedition ruined by your paranoia, at least this way explorers can work their way around Paranoiaville(ban lines) without getting teleported home.

I realize I'm quoting you from nearly 3 years ago, but feel the need to say that some people feel their home in a virtual world (albeit simply "pixels") is very meaningful to them. If invested emotionally it can feel like a hotline to their unconscious mind, and they want it to be private.

[Luna Bliss]

On ‎6‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 1:54 PM, Qie Niangao said:

Also, modern security orbs have settings that disable themselves altogether when there's nobody on the parcel in the authorized user list. There's still plenty of old junk on the Marketplace that don't have that setting, and it's not required, but it's a nice way for a Mainland landowner to show that they aren't a complete loony about their pixels getting abused while they're not in-world.

Likewise for you Qie. (I realize I'm quoting you from nearly 3 years ago, but feel the need to say that some people feel their home in a virtual world (albeit simply "pixels") is very meaningful to them. If invested emotionally it can feel like a hotline to their unconscious mind, and they want it to be private even when not in their home).

You know I had a lot of sympathy for your side before I actually read the first part of this thread!  No wonder the "my home, my way" crowd dug in their boundaries so severely -- your side has no respect or understanding for the other side, it seems.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Luna Bliss

[BilliJo Aldrin]

4 hours ago, Rufferta said:

I realize this is probably passive-aggressive behavior, but if I'm ejected by a security orb in less than ten seconds, I just add the name of the owner to my 'block' lists. I have a pathetic hope that one day one of these owners will try to walk across my lawn (otherwise left public) and get blocked. I used to send polite notes like 'hey, did you know your security orb has a trigger finger?' but that didn't seem to change behavior.

I never intentionally try to enter private space, usually I get zapped when I'm exploring Mainland and click to teleport on what I think is public land. Last time this happened was when I tried to land on a road outside of a property I had sold, wanting to see what had been done with it. I was instantly ejected, so I have no idea how far off the target I landed. 

I think I'll add a note to my property descriptions "If you've been blocked from entering this space, it's because you have a security orb which zaps without warning."

 

If someone buys land beside me and sets ban lines, I always add them to my ban list. Because, why not?

[Theresa Tennyson]

On 3/31/2019 at 9:18 PM, Solar Legion said:

Sorry Winslet, any such limitations do not preclude those paying for the parcels telling you - in no uncertain terms - to pack sand and go around their parcels. 

As others have noted: Despite your interpretation of the ToS, nowhere in the bits you have quoted is any language even suggesting any hard and fast rules concerning security systems and such. 

There simply isn't. 

It is phrased as a suggestion. That is the reality. 

You can disagree with that all you like, it doesn't change much. 

Now, want to try to change it? File a JIRA entry. Bring it up at a Town Hall even. 

Stamping your feet in the forum won't help you. 

Another aspect of reality is that if someone in authority "suggests" that you do/not do something and your reply is, "Well, you didn't say I must so who cares?" it's very likely that you'll find the same authority figure handing down a very clear rule - in no uncertain terms - that's often quite a bit more draconian than the "suggestion."

Edited April 2, 2019 by Theresa Tennyson

[Parhelion Palou]

2 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Another aspect of reality is that if someone in authority "suggests" that you do/not do something and your reply is, "Well, you didn't say I must so who cares?" it's very likely that you'll find the same authority figure handing down a very clear rule - in no uncertain terms - that's often quite a bit more draconian than the "suggestion."

I doubt LL will want to set themselves up for a bunch of ARs from people complaining that someone's security orb booted them in 9 seconds rather than 10 seconds.

[Theresa Tennyson]

43 minutes ago, Parhelion Palou said:

I doubt LL will want to set themselves up for a bunch of ARs from people complaining that someone's security orb booted them in 9 seconds rather than 10 seconds.

Of course not. Simpler to just ban the orbs. (I'm not saying that they should, mind you - just a case of "unintended consequences.")

Edited April 3, 2019 by Theresa Tennyson

[animats]

On the right, Linden water. On the left, a ban line. Unmarked, in the middle of a wide channel. I was trying to circle Heterocera's central island in a boat. Lost the boat.

The property owner could at least put out navigational buoys. There's a standard real-world marker for boat keep-out areas.

Keep out buoys look like this in Second Life. If you must have a ban line next to navigable water, put those out.

 

Edited April 3, 2019 by animats

[Marianne Little]

This is me fabulating. I know it will not happen.

Wouln't it be great to have a fly zone on mainland? Your ban line goes to 1000 m, then it's clean air in an opening to 2000 m. And the ban line would be more bouncy, so you didn't get stuck there.

LL already have a rule for no skyboxes under 2000 m on their LL homes area.

It's my dream, right? The same skybox rule on mainland.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Marianne Little
Typos

[Marianne Little]

1 hour ago, animats said:

On the right, Linden water. On the left, a ban line. Unmarked, in the middle of a wide channel. I was trying to circle Heterocera's central island in a boat. Lost the boat.

The property owner could at least put out navigational buoys. There's a standard real-world marker for boat keep-out areas.

Keep out buoys look like this in Second Life. If you must have a ban line next to navigable water, put those out.

 

In general, Linden rivers/water canals is too narrow. People landscape so they can have their pier and boats out. There is very few reasonable gentle people in SL who will set out buoys.

This guy here didn't have a long pier. Me, I used to have my pier and boats just to the property edge. So unless you wanted to sail 0,5 m close, you had no problem passing. I didn't have a ban line either, but that's not the issue here. Nothing to warn you off.

Should be possible for LL to change ban lines to not trap aircrafts and boats, just brush them off the edge. But LL haven't done that for what 13 years? 15 years?

Edited April 3, 2019 by Marianne Little
Typos

[Hunter Stern]

I think Security Device creators need to get more creative with Security Orbs and the like. For example. Why can't they make security orbs that bribe or reward me for not interloping the specified area, though I am still nearby.

If there was some incentive then maybe people would pay more attention to security orbs or atleast have their object search up to spot the ones that might be around. theyd could make a hunt out of it in a way.

How about a security orb that says " hey ______ Resident! if you leave in the next 10 seconds and return home or elsewhere, I will reward you handsomely with pair of fabulous shoes, but only once. After that you are on a list and will be returned home immediately (unless you can convince my master to take you off that list). Thank you for your understanding and happy exploring"

 

and everyone is happy. People love hunts and rewards, and some people love privacy and ownership.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

2 hours ago, Hunter Stern said:

I think Security Device creators need to get more creative with Security Orbs and the like. For example. Why can't they make security orbs that bribe or reward me for not interloping the specified area, though I am still nearby.

If there was some incentive then maybe people would pay more attention to security orbs or atleast have their object search up to spot the ones that might be around. theyd could make a hunt out of it in a way.

How about a security orb that says " hey ______ Resident! if you leave in the next 10 seconds and return home or elsewhere, I will reward you handsomely with pair of fabulous shoes, but only once. After that you are on a list and will be returned home immediately (unless you can convince my master to take you off that list). Thank you for your understanding and happy exploring"

 

and everyone is happy. People love hunts and rewards, and some people love privacy and ownership.

So, who pays for the item? I certainly wont be. I'm not paying someone to stay off my parcel. Thats arse backwards. 

[s2Pandora]

Other than the mainland being mostly really ugly(I do enjoy visiting for the "time warp" though), this whole thing is why I don't rent or own on mainland. I'm a lady who likes my privacy and space, but I do see the points on both sides here.. it does come down to the fact that; unless LL innacts something for those flying over parcels(such as a height strip of "no ownership" where a parcel owner's orb will not work or they cannot build), then there's really not much you can do if somebody does their thing.

I recently set my orb on my parcel to 0 seconds(with permission from my landlord; private estate), as my neighbor's 1 night stands keep coming on to my parcel constantly trying to find my boyfriend and I(without so much as a word, I might add). Considering we often stand around home in the buff, I want my privacy. I am ***** about privacy irl and in sl.

But to ask..

Don't many orbs have a range setting? I know some are pretty vague on it, but for those who don't have skyboxes, setting a shorter range for those flying over(or sailing next to) probably isn't too bad if it's something you don't mind.

Or you can go as far as to have multiple orbs to set around your skyboxes?

Edited April 3, 2019 by s2Pandora

[Resi Pfeffer]

44 minutes ago, s2Pandora said:

Don't many orbs have a range setting? I know some are pretty vague on it, but for those who don't have skyboxes, setting a shorter range for those flying over(or sailing next to) probably isn't too bad if it's something you don't mind.

Or you can go as far as to have multiple orbs to set around your skyboxes?

Once i rented something like a skybox, and just was able to use the orb what was already there, set up by the landlord.
Any othee orb i bought for myself didnt work and told me something like "you dont own that parcel"

[Rolig Loon]

1 minute ago, Resi Pfeffer said:

Any othee orb i bought for myself didnt work and told me something like "you dont own that parcel"

It sounds like you forgot to deed it to the group that owns the parcel. Good orbs made in recent years use land functions in LSL that depend on being used by the landowner, so if the land is owned by a group, the orb must be too.