Can you ban someone from your own region with there IP address?

[BM2015]

I was wondering if there was a way to ban someone from your region so they can not come back on it with an another account. Is there a way you can ban someone by there IP address, instead of there aviatar?

[Whirly Fizzle]

If you region/estate ban an avatar, then any other avatars sharing the same IP as the banned avatar will also be region banned. It has been this way for a while now. I forget when the change happened, I think it was around October 2014.

I dicovered it by accident when I'd region banned one of my alts to test something and then found none of my other alts who were not estate managers on the region could enter.

Those "IP bans" appear to time out pretty quickly but if the actual banned avatar attempts to gain access to the region again, then the IP ban appears to take effect again.

 Easy enough for any estate manager to test with their alts - just remember any alt who has EM rights on the region won't be affected.

As far as I'm aware, this region IP ban only happens on regions set to allow public access, it will fail if you test on a region that's locked down to group access only.

Again I havn't checked if this behaviour is still the same but the last time I checked, the actual banned avatar will see a "You are banned from this region" message when trying to enter.

The alts with the same IP will see a different message - "You do not have access to this teleport destination" I think it was.

[SAULGOODiE]

No. Only LL can ban a user via IP address. There is no way for the viewer client to recognize your IP address, only user identification information, hence only banning by user name. You can file abuse reports for the user and their alts, but there is no guarantee that LL will follow through. 

[ChinRey]

Saul has already given you a very good down-to-the-point answer. But I think there is one more thing you should be aware of:

It is not possible to get somebody's IP address through Second Life itself. It is however technically possible to get it from the music stream they're listening to since that comes from an external server. There are some fairly expensive systems that claim they can identify new alts for old accounts that way but they don't work because:

• They can only identify (or misidentify) people who actually have music streaming switched on and most people with evil intents know better than that
• The IP address is not a reliable way to identify a specific computer, let alone a specific person.

[Spanky Paine]

Whirly’s answer mirrors my experiences and explains the “unbanning” of alts I’ve observed after about a day.

[EalaACuileag]

I just want to say that it's a relief that Sim owners can't see a resident's IP address. It would be a breach of privacy. Only LL staff should have access to that information. Anyone with a few dollars can be a Sim owner.

[Lindal Kidd]

@EalaACuileag,

It has nothing to do with being an estate owner.  As Chic pointed out, anyone who provides you a music stream (or a media stream) has the ability to know your public IP address.  This is not unique to Second Life, it's how streaming media works on the internet.  LL knows this, and therefore their policy does not prohibit you from finding out another avatar's public IP address.  What it DOES prohibit is passing on that knowledge to any third parties.

[Adamburp Adamczyk]

Actually, LL DO go to pains to point out to you that your IP address can be obtained via the media stream:

 

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Technical_overview_of_Second_Life_security

Or, if you don't want to read the whole page, here's the relevant bit:

Stream data

Voice, web, audio, and video streams do not pass through Linden Lab's servers; they are accessed directly by the Second Life viewer. One way to keep your content secure is to use one of these distribution methods.

Streaming content attached to a land parcel can use https to provide a secure stream, and is not routed through Linden Lab's servers. The Second Life viewer pulls the streaming content directly from its source.

Important: Conversely, the owner of a parcel of land may use their streaming media source to determine your IP address. If you are not on your own land, you may choose to disable reception of streaming media in the Second Life viewer's preferences.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Adamburp Adamczyk
corrected a typo.

[Monti Messmer]

Just to add - it´s not only SL related.

Every webpage on the net can get your ip. It´s not really a privacy thing.

Right at this moment checking my IP you get an access point around 50 miles away in a big city while i live more "country-side". (this varies from 10 to 100+ miles)

Monti

[Jerilynn Lemon]

1 hour ago, Monti Messmer said:

Just to add - it´s not only SL related.

Every webpage on the net can get your ip. It´s not really a privacy thing.

Right at this moment checking my IP you get an access point around 50 miles away in a big city while i live more "country-side". (this varies from 10 to 100+ miles)

Monti

That's what I have found. A search on my IP shows me approx. 30 miles away. Sometimes after I reboot my modem, it shows me somewhere else, not close to my physical location.

I think to get a precise IP location (correct me if I am mistaken) one must know the ISP being used, then 1) be very persuasive in the request (doubtful unless you are LEO and work close with the ISP security detail) or 2) obtain a warrant or court order to present to the ISP.

If someone threatens to claim they know your IP, just "poo-poo" them and move on.

[Lindal Kidd]

3 hours ago, Monti Messmer said:

Just to add - it´s not only SL related.

Every webpage on the net can get your ip. It´s not really a privacy thing.

Right at this moment checking my IP you get an access point around 50 miles away in a big city while i live more "country-side". (this varies from 10 to 100+ miles)

Monti

Yep!  And if you want more privacy protection, you can access the internet through a Virtual Private Network.  Then your location can appear to come from pretty much anywhere in the world you choose. 

[Velk Kerang]

On 6/6/2016 at 5:44 PM, ChinRey said:

Saul has already given you a very good down-to-the-point answer. But I think there is one more thing you should be aware of:

It is not possible to get somebody's IP address through Second Life itself. It is however technically possible to get it from the music stream they're listening to since that comes from an external server. There are some fairly expensive systems that claim they can identify new alts for old accounts that way but they don't work because:

• They can only identify (or misidentify) people who actually have music streaming switched on and most people with evil intents know better than that
• The IP address is not a reliable way to identify a specific computer, let alone a specific person.

I've never heard of the music stream method considering they'd have to own the stream your IP is connecting to in order to pull your specific IP so if it's being done it is being done with a hack viewer. Let's just be real about that. That being said there was an alt detector that actually did work in SL once. I forget the name, but it use to be sold on market and I can tell you and everyone else now that LL shut that s**t down with no exceptions in a heartbeat back in the day and banned anyone caught using it. So I wouldn't advise trying to pull anyone's IP on here yourself to anyone unless you don't mind loosing all your stuffs. Do what ya want to peoples, but a hard head makes a soft a**. Don't say you weren't warned. lol

Edited November 7, 2019 by Velk Kerang
Corrections.

[Lindal Kidd]

Velk, you're referring to the infamous "Red Zone" "alt detector".  This device did indeed use music streams to suss out the public IPs of listeners.  Only problem was, knowing the public IP of a user and comparing it to that of another user does not reliably tell you if those two users are the SAME user.  People can share an IP address for several reasons.  Conversely, one person can show up with different IP addresses for several reasons.  So, Red Zone was subject to both false positives and false negatives.  It caused way more Drama than it ever solved.

[Velk Kerang]

On 11/7/2019 at 9:57 PM, Lindal Kidd said:

Velk, you're referring to the infamous "Red Zone" "alt detector".  This device did indeed use music streams to suss out the public IPs of listeners.  Only problem was, knowing the public IP of a user and comparing it to that of another user does not reliably tell you if those two users are the SAME user.  People can share an IP address for several reasons.  Conversely, one person can show up with different IP addresses for several reasons.  So, Red Zone was subject to both false positives and false negatives.  It caused way more Drama than it ever solved.

Thanks. I could not remember the name to save my life. lol I guess my question would be this. What if you didn't play the stream on the land? I ask because the way I understood it to work by someone who owned one at the time was that once I tped to their land it would then tell them whatever accounts I logged in to from my IP. Of course they got their bubble busted when I informed them the few names they have if any at all were in fact other peoples accounts I helped them with something on them at some point in time. The thing is I never played the stream on that land. Not even once. So I don't know. I've never owned one so I am not going to sit here and pretend to know exactly how it worked from a technical aspect, but that was the extent of my personal experience with it. I never really asked to much about it to the person who had it so we never really got in to super detail on how it actually worked. Last conversation I had with them regarding it was that it got nuked from their inventory the minute LL outlawed it. lol 😀

[Lindal Kidd]

I'll have to let someone with deeper technical knowledge tackle that one!

[Nova Convair]

To get your IP they need help from you since that only works if you run around with media on autoplay.

So they can detect that you logged into the media stream and they connect that to your UUID by the time you entered the parcel.

If you have a system that works at many places and collects all the data into one database then you can make assumtions and consider all avatars that ever shared a common IP are alts, which is of course nonsense - although will be true in many cases. And that will work mainly for amercians only. Minus all the cases of any shared internet connections.

My IPv4 will be a different one every time I log in and is drawn out of a pool with a few millions. You can't even localize me with that - well, you can find out the country. Besides of that my media is off. I switch that on when i want to listen to a specific DJ. But then the time I switch it on will not correspond with the time I entered the sim.

Once you have that info you and your alt will simply never use media if you wanna cheat or just be incognito. And blocking an IP is pure nonsense too from my point of view. Absolutely zero effect.

The IP blocking by the server after banning someone has an effect though. Those kiddies will jump to their alt in rage and try to come back - which will fail miserably. Gives them time to cool down. 😎

[Whirly Fizzle]

If you are really paranoid about anyone in SL getting your IP address:
Disable media.
Disable music streaming.
Disable voice (this one is pretty important).
Never click a link the snooper asks you to click - if they own the website they'll get your IP.
Never click any scripted objects, attach any scripted objects or sit on any scripted objects that the snooper owns/created or has mod rights too- this is super paranoid level, but there are ways to get IP in this way.

Imo just carry on as normal & accept your IP isn't private information & stop worrying about it.
If you're really worried, use a VPN.
 

 

[Roxy Couturier]

On 11/9/2019 at 9:06 AM, Velk Kerang said:

Thanks. I could not remember the name to save my life. lol I guess my question would be this. What if you didn't play the stream on the land?

It's public record as to how it worked. First to answer your question, back when media was first implemented, there was no 'Allow/Deny' for any media source. They played whether you wanted them to or not. You could stop an autoplay music stream, but by then the info was already sent. (Though as I recall, Redzone used media on a prim to gather it's info. a short, blank piece of media that was nearly undetectable.) A gentleman named Sione (iirc) coded the media security app that was first implemented in Emerald/Firestorm then was integrated into the LL Viewer.

Beyond the Redzone devices on people's land which would scan and report correlations between Avatar names and IP addresses, there was a 'mobile scanner' that used Media on a prim on a wearable prim to capture the same information anywhere someone with the scanner went, adding info to the database. Once Sione's app became the standard, the database Redzone used stagnated and so became less and less relevant. Though the damage to communities was already done. The outcry also prompted changes to SL ToS on privacy. The creator tried to circumvent ToS and continued to disseminate 'Alt info' and wound up with a huge banhammer effectively flattening both his business and his account.