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AdamZadig

Original Content Creators Group?

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So i noticed the SLOCCA badges on some brands and decided to apply but after two weeks of no response im assuming theyre busy or dont accept new/small brands like mine.

But I really like the idea of having a badge confirming the content was made 100% by me. I guess because I spend hours/days on each little item. I made my own but I would rather be part of an official group.

What do people really feel about these logos and groups?

Are there any other groups to join?

Is it OK just to create your own?


 

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AdamZadig wrote:

So i noticed the SLOCCA badges on some brands and decided to apply but after two weeks of no response im assuming theyre busy or dont accept new/small brands like mine.

If they don't respond to new apllications it makes me wonder how serious that group is about itself in the first place.

 

But I really like the idea of having a badge confirming the content was made 100% by me. I guess because I spend hours/days on each little item. I made my own but I would rather be part of an official group.

 

What do people really feel about these logos and groups?

I don't think a badge of some group will make much difference from stating in your ads that you pride yourself with only making 100% original content. You can ofcourse start your own group but that would mean having to openly research every creator and his/her creations in order to give your mark any value. You have to wonder if you're willing to spend the time...

 

 

 

 

 

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AdamZadig wrote:

 

 

What do people really feel about these logos and groups?
I think they're stupid. There is no way for anyone else to actually confirm you make everything yourself. I wouldn't trust someone that tld me they were "approved"or "official". I'd question why someone needs that confirmation when we've never needed it before, and 98% of the content creators in sl, not to mention customers, don't need that "label" either. Those kinds of groups tend to be more trouble and drama than they're worth. It's not as if Linden Lab themselves make these "creators"(and I use that term loosely in some cases) some kind of "officially original" merchant, lol. How can anyone actually say those products, textures included, are 100% riginally created by the merchant? Ya can't, so....pointless to try. I do know people that specifically avoid anyoen that tries to make these claims by using those logos and labels, though. Kinds like the folks that have "voice and cam verified" in their profiles....people don't believe ya when ya have to shout it out like that. They assume you had some kind of trouble, hence why you *need* that label/logo (make sense?)

 

Are there any other groups to join?
Don't know, but, my above answer still applies.

Is it OK just to create your own?
Sure, if you wanna, but again my above answer still applies.

 

 

 

 

My answers in bold :) 

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Thanks for your feedback. I see where youre coming from and your points are really valid. 

There is a lot to consider. I think the logos look really cool so im still torn as to whether or not to keep using the one i made. 

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AdamZadig wrote:

So i noticed the SLOCCA badges on some brands and decided to apply but after two weeks of no response im assuming theyre busy or dont accept new/small brands like mine.

First time I even heard of the group to be honest. I've just sent in an application and got a message it could take up to 14 days for them to reply. 14 days - that usually means about four weeks for stuff like this. We'll see what happens. ;-)

Actually it's a good chance I get a response much faster since they're going to reject me right away. I didn't notice until after I had sent the form but it turns out they don't like full perm mesh sellers and I do have a small full perm store on the side.

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Well --

 

I am in a chatty mood tonight it seems.

 

That group started not too long after the big TOS change in August a few years back.

http://chicatphilsplace.blogspot.com/p/linden-labs-change-in-tos-august-2013.html

Much dra-ma both with the TOS and the group and happily I was at least out of the group excitment.

 

People have been writing about the group for a long while -- not being let in, no replies, etc etc. We are talking YEARS here.

I can't remember if I ever applied long ago or not. I definitely qualify but if I applied I never received a confirmation. For all we know the whole group is no longer viable.

 

The bottom line is that it simply doesn't matter. Do a good job. Put "original mesh" on your items if you want. Build up your own credibility.

 

There were plenty of folks that were (and likely still ARE ) ANTI  SLOCCA.   I would never want to be a part of that group THESE days. :D.  You remember those cliques in high school? Well SLOCCA is right in line.

 

OR you could just make your own very lovely logo LOL (honestly, not being catty. Just so very ridiculous.)

 

 

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I feel the same about the people that call out for an sl BBB, or anything similar, too, though. I'm not keen on those things, because of the drama they create, and the fact that most of the folks in them put their own selves on some weird pedestal. I actually stopped buying from a few of my favorite sculpt/mesh/template/etc... merchants, because of it. While I did trust their work, it just seemed odd to me. It probably has more to do with the fact that it feels more like them looking down their noses at other creators, despite that being their biggest target audience and where the bulk of their income comes from(if that makes any amount of sense). Whether ot not that's a reasonable conclusion(and I realize for some, it's not)

I value most creators' work, time, effort, blood sweat and yes even tears poured into their work. I value them not just for what they can give me, but what they can do, because I find it impressive. 

I say if your work is good, you value your work...it'll speak for itself  :) 

 

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Chic Aeon wrote:

 

There were plenty of folks that were (and likely still ARE ) ANTI  SLOCCA.   I would never want to be a part of that group THESE days.
:D
.  You remember those cliques in high school? Well SLOCCA is right in line.

 

 

I think that is a good piece of advice in general. Be carefull as to which groups you associate your business with. Associating yourself with a drama filled group can do lots of damage to your business. You might not even be aware of the negative image a group may have amongst your possible customers. A label from a group on your ads can easily work against you this way.

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Christhiana wrote:

I think that is a good piece of advice in general. Be carefull as to which groups you associate your business with.


How does this group score there?

I really should be careful with what I say much since this whole thing is brand new to me. But I can make a few obvious observations.

A group like this can be:

  • A way to promote content originally made for SL over take-the-money-and-run style uploads of dubious origin. - I'm all for that. But a group with that purpose would need a much broader base to have any effect. The no full perm rule alone excludes a large number of great content creators who could have been valuable members.
  • A "pat each other on the back" club for content creators - Well ok. Personally I don't feel any need to prove to other builders that I know how to make mesh, those who haven't noticed by now never will.
  • A quality stamp - Quality is not mentioned anywhere but of course membership of a group like this is likely to be seen as a quality approval anyway. Some of the best mesh makers in Second Life are members but it seems most aren't. And there are a few SLOCCA members who really, really should have learned how to actually make mesh before they started selling it.
  • A marketing tool - some of the best marketers in SL are not members. Apparently people who not only are good mesh makers but also know everything about how to sell in SL, never bothered with this group. Even more telling: some of the best marketers are members but they don't seem to use it in their marketing.

I don't know anything for sure of course right now to me this looks like a great initiative that came to nothing.

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Christhiana wrote:


Chic Aeon wrote:

 

There were plenty of folks that were (and likely still ARE ) ANTI  SLOCCA.   I would never want to be a part of that group THESE days.
:D
.  You remember those cliques in high school? Well SLOCCA is right in line.

 

 

I think that is a good piece of advice in general. Be carefull as to which groups you associate your business with. Associating yourself with a drama filled group can do lots of damage to your business. You might not even be aware of the negative image a group may have amongst your possible customers. A label from a group on your ads can easily work against you this way.

The vast majority of people in SL are oblivious to drama that takes place in groups, blogs, social media, etc. 

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Pamela Galli wrote:

The vast majority of people in SL are oblivious to drama that takes place in groups, blogs, social media, etc. 


Aww, I love drama. Especially Ibsen of course since I'm Norwegian, but Shakespeare too and so many others. It's more suitable for a stage than an SL group though.

 

Seriously, I always appreciate your view on topics here, Pamela, but rarely as much as in this case. There are three names in particular that are extremely noticeable by their absence from the members list. Yours is one of them so your opinion is even more valuable than usual here.

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I admit I am not above watching a drama fest -- from the sidelines, esp when involving a sense of entitlement. And I like Ibsen. And had no idea you were Norwegian, I think you are my first. (I did watch a fascinating Norwegian miniseries recently, tho.)

The best proof I have that I make my own mesh is all my noobish questions in the mesh forum here. 

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please do let us know if you get a response with their decision. i was able to speak to a mod there who said they would get back to me after the weekend as they do have a back log of applicants but that was over a week ago.

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ChinRey wrote:


Christhiana wrote:

I think that is a good piece of advice in general. Be carefull as to which groups you associate your business with.


 

I don't know anything for sure of course right now to me this looks like a
great initiative
that came to nothing.

I snipped the rest, because this part is the most important for me, and it seems quite a few other folks. It was *never* a great initiative in the first place, and that hindered it from the start. It really is just a way for most of the members to look down on other creators, rather than be inclusive and promote creation, that killed it before it even got off the ground. 

That's a huge part of why they have, as Adam found out by speaking with them, "a backlog of applicants". Because it never really was grounded to begin with, and is even less grounded now. I know what they *say* the foundation was, but what was said, and what it was at creation(and has since become), are two totally different things. It works primarily against people.

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Tari Landar wrote:


ChinRey wrote:


Christhiana wrote:

I think that is a good piece of advice in general. Be carefull as to which groups you associate your business with.


 

I don't know anything for sure of course right now to me this looks like a
great initiative
that came to nothing.

I snipped the rest, because this part is the most important for me, and it seems quite a few other folks. It was *never* a great initiative in the first place, and that hindered it from the start. It really is just a way for most of the members to look down on other creators, rather than be inclusive and promote creation, that killed it before it even got off the ground. 

That's a huge part of why they have, as Adam found out by speaking with them, "a backlog of applicants". Because it never really was grounded to begin with, and is even less grounded now. I know what they *say* the foundation was, but what was said, and what it was at creation(and has since become), are two totally different things. It works primarily against people.

I agree with whoever said it is like announcing you are voice verified. 

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Probably better off establishing your own reputation as a creator and a designer without resorting to groups such as SLOCCA.

 

Not entirely sure why but SLOCCA always struck me as something pretentious. Like someone else mentioned earlier, if you sell anything full perm (things that you made yourself) at all, you aren't original enough for them. I can understand that perhaps making full perm items available decreases the originality of other merchants in their view, but that also brings to question of the furniture and clothing makers among their members who use full perm animations and scripts.

 

Where do you draw the line? Not to mention, for a group that preaches originality (which is wonderful), they don't mind architecture stores that reproduce iconic buildings from popular movies. The fine details of legality notwithstanding, the group's idea of originality seems a little muddled while managing to appear holier-than-thou at the same time.

 

 

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I think your main aim here is to give yourself a competitive advantage. It won't work. And neither will the idea of buying reviews, or sending out 100 notecards for people to review a freebie (from a previous post). It's not worth the precious time and effort.

In my experience I've found that customers in SL are very savvy - they know quality and they know where to find it. Somehow word gets around - this is your best advertising. The only way to achieve this is time, hard work and of course you need to have the creative ability.

 

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Pamela Galli wrote:

The best proof I have that I make my own mesh is all my noobish questions in the mesh forum here. 

jejeje (:

nailed it with a mesh hammer (:

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Like ChinRey I will give my final thoughts on this group and what it represents. 

 

  • It's a way to show that you are the original creator of the entire item. Sometimes in the past I have purchased an item and soon after realised it was cheaper to buy the original full perm version which is sold by the original creator. It's not saying as a buyer you shouldnt buy full perm items, its just a place for those who create their own to have a group to promote themselves.
  • I do not see anything pretentious or pat eachother on the back about the group. Every niche in Second Life has a group. And it has stores that are both small and large in regards to reputation and popularity.

I'm kinda disappointed with the negative feedback its got in the forums. I dont see the harm it does to have a logo that says you created somehting yourself from scratch. Yes anyone can claim they do when they dont but thats not a reason for those who genuinely create their own not to want to advertise the fact.

 

 

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Adam, if it works for you then just go for it. As a merchant and you want to distinguish yourself from other merchants as a marketing/promotional point of difference then is all good

+

where people do make criticism is that is more about the guild-like nature of some of these groups

they often start with all the best intentions, but after a time as more and more merchants, who do meet all of the criteria to join, are not invited or have their applications put in a endless consideration queue. the group becomes a closed shop

if I was a original content maker and I wanted to promote that as a pod, then I would just do that on my own marketing materials. My work would speak to this, more than anything else

if it was about promotion (audience building) and I was good at making stuff then the invites I would much rather have, would be to display/show/sell my stuff at the events and fairs run by the more longtime professional promoters

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I think a huge part of your problem here is inexperience, and ignorance. Note, that I am using both of those with their actual definitions, and not necessaily with negativity attached.

Neither one is necessarily your fault, but both can only be fixed by you.

What you deem as negative, may very well be, but the only reason it IS negative, is because those who have replied have experience here, and lack the ignorance that new members, often, have. The ignorance exists, *because of the lack of experience. once you are around for a while longer, or even do as suggested earlier and actually search out this particular group(and other related topics) you will, likely, fully understand that the responses you are getting are not necessarily only negative, but factual. We have these opinions, because we have experience,plain and simple. We were around, while new creators/forum posters were not, so we can offer advice and info that new creators do not, yet, understand.

Don't look at everything as a slight. You've responded similarly to another thread elsewhere on the forums, with the assumption(seemingly) that everyone is just being mean and offensive. The fact remains, that experience from forum members has fueled the responses there too. Which you would understand much, much better, if you did a little bit of legwork to better understand the situation. Just as in that situation, I may not share the same opinion as everyone else, I can fully understand where that seemingly negativity comes from, when it comes to responses people get. Experience fuels it all, and until one has it, it's really hard to understand. Again, that's not your fault, you're new, you haven't been around long enough to understand where the "issues" truly sit, or why they even exist. But, maybe, if you did a bit of searching, you could have a better understanding of where we're coming from, and why, even if in the end you still don't agree.

It may be that you don't share that opinion, which is, of course, perfectly acceptable. but, if you're going to be a merchant in sl, I highly recommend listening to the folks that are doing a damn fine job of being exactly that. At this moment, I am small potatoes compared to most of them, regardless of what experience I have as a creator, merchant, and even SL user. I may have been around longer than a lot of them. but they are MUCH better at being merchants and creators than I am now, since I chose to change it from a lifestyle/rl job to a hobby. My experience and knowledge can still stand for itself, though.

If you want to advertise the fact that you're an original creator...go for it!! I think you should. You should let YOUR work, speak for itself. Create your own logo if you want. Put it in big bold text in all of your listings if you want. Hell, create your own group if you want to. Just please understand that it is still, very much, up to your work, and you, to speak for itself and yourself. And NONE of these kinds of "groups" that have been created and pretending to be some kind of "official" capacity, are going to help your cause. 

But if you think you NEED a group to do it(where my shout it from the rooftops thing comes from, need versus want), you're headed down the wrong path, and THAT group, will absolutely destroy your reputation as a creator, not bolster it. I'm sorry you don't like that fact, but it is, indeed, a fact. I am, clearly, not alone in that thinking, lol. There are plenty of creator groups in sl that creators and merchants can join, with all kinds of purposes, including marketing. That one, in particular, is terrible, and there is absolutely nothing you can say that will change that fact. You don't know, and you don't understand, and as much as I hate for that to sound as harsh as it does, it's true.(I hate being mean, I shouldn't need to state this, but since you are new, I will state that..I HATE sounding mean, and most of these folks around here know this. I try very hard not to, whenever possible, even when it increases my post length substantially!) This group, in particular, is NOT a group to promote other creators. It is NOT a group to help advertise. It is simply "not as advertised", like it or not. It speaks poorly of all members, not highly. You do NOT want this, it will absolutely NOT help your business, unless you intend to only sell to other creators in that group. In which case, I suppose, have fun with it...? But you'll be missing out on the rest of sl ;) 

At any rate I should just shut up, so I shall. I wish you the best regardless of what plans you do or do not make in sl, and I wish you the best with your business. I only wanted to offer insight as someone that, often, looks for, and frequently buys, the kinds of products you're discussing. I figured it would be helpful to hear from someone that actually has experience and knowledge in that area. Apparently, I was completely wrong, lmao. Maybe someone else somewhere along the way will learn from the experience of others. That is, after all, how many of us got started in sl in the first place. But, I digress...good day :D 

 

 

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Here is how most people would probably conclude that my work is original: just look at it and decide whether it looks like all of it* was made by one person.

If there was actually some independent board that could verify that my work is my own, I would be happy to submit documentation. But there is no such board. I could "verify" my own work but how meaningless is that? Anyone can declare that his own work is original. The MP is full of people who claim their ripped mesh is original.

* I will use premade mesh for some things, to save time, or as promotional items. For example, I did not make all the makeup items in my bathroom vanity. But I made many of the other accessories and all the furniture and fixtures. 

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AdamZadig wrote:

Like ChinRey I will give my final thoughts on this group and what it represents. 

 
  • It's a way to show that you are the original creator of the entire item. Sometimes in the past I have purchased an item and soon after realised it was cheaper to buy the original full perm version which is sold by the original creator. It's not saying as a buyer you shouldnt buy full perm items, its just a place for those who create their own to have a group to promote themselves.
  • I do not see anything pretentious or pat eachother on the back about the group. Every niche in Second Life has a group. And it has stores that are both small and large in regards to reputation and popularity.

I'm kinda disappointed with the negative feedback its got in the forums. I dont see the harm it does to have a logo that says you created somehting yourself from scratch. Yes anyone can claim they do when they dont but thats not a reason for those who genuinely create their own not to want to advertise the fact.


Final then? In hopes you return with an open mind, here are some of my thoughts.

Original work, especially mesh, is a strong selling point if the quality of the work holds up. But of course you don't need a group to tell people that you created everything from scratch. A simple sign or tag line works too. I'm not sure how the decision makers in a group would gain that level of certainty for that level of originality unless they forced their members to send all texture and dae files to them. My guess is that there has to be a fair bit of accepting someone's word on it.

 

Some shoppers may be impressed by the logo and think it means more than it really does. This particular group has created more than a little enmity for itself however and some shoppers might decide to go elsewhere. Maybe you don't care about that. Maybe they're not your target audience anyway. It's up to you to decide whether the possible benefits are worth the possible costs. But it really isn't fair to get peevish with people who are letting you know about that enmity.

 

Sometimes finished products ARE more expensive than the original full perm mesh. But then you are buying more, and in some cases it may well be worth it if something is skillfully textured or has a great animation set. Does that red herring have anything to do with the rest of the discussion here?

 

Unless I've read ChinRey's posts wrong, SLOCCA doesn't just exclude the use of FP mesh created by others. It also forbids the SELLING of FP mesh by its members. I gather this is because they feel it discourages originality within SL. That's absurd. Someone who wants to help out other builders or sells FP because it's another market for their work is no less original than someone who doesn't and encouraging more people to build encourages more creativity in SL, which in turn encourages more originality. Surely I'm not the only one who's moved from working with FP mesh to battling the Blender beast.

Is that mindset something you want to support and align yourself with? Putting their logo on your work is more than just telling others you created your items all by yourself. NO ONE here is saying to hide the fact that it's original work. They're just suggesting that this specific way of doing it comes with a few complications you might want to take into consideration.

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Hey, I really liked your points about inexperience, and ignorance. I am new to this, and I probably do seem ignorant because I have not experienced any negative things in situations like this. 

So for someone new like me its like, well its a group that supports original content. I dont see past that really. It is interesting to learn about how others feel about it, I can see how someone who doesnt want to be in such a group may feel like their work is going to be seen as not original because its not stamped by a logo but at the end of the day, do buyers even care? 

I think all of the responses here are from merchants. What do buyers really think? Would be interesting to get their point of view. 

 

 

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AdamZadig wrote:

Hey, I really liked your points about 
inexperience, and ignorance. I am new to this, and I probably do seem ignorant because I have not experienced any negative things in situations like this. 

So for someone new like me its like, well its a group that supports original content. I dont see past that really. It is interesting to learn about how others feel about it,
I can see how someone who doesnt want to be in such a group may feel like their work is going to be seen as not original because its not stamped by a logo but at the end of the day,
do buyers even care? 

I think all of the responses here are from merchants. What do buyers really think? Would be interesting to get their point of view. 

 

 

Re the bolded part: Not at all. The existence of this group has approximately zero impact on my business or how anyone perceives my work.

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