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Lucierda Solari

Firestorm: Lag (Too Many Complex Objects in Scene)

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I am getting lag and the possible cause is because there are "too many complex objects in scene).  I find when I disable shadows it works better.  However, I did not have problems with shadows enabled before.

My specs are:

CPU: AMD FX(tm)-4130 Quad-Core Processor (3817.24 MHz)
Memory: 16385 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 7 SP1 64-bit (Build 7601)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 760/PCIe/SSE2

Windows Graphics Driver Version: 10.18.0013.6519
OpenGL Version: 4.5.0 NVIDIA 365.19

RestrainedLove API: (disabled)
libcurl Version: libcurl/7.38.0 OpenSSL/1.0.1i zlib/1.2.8
J2C Decoder Version: KDU v7.7.1
Audio Driver Version: FMOD Ex 4.44.61
LLCEFLib/CEF Version: 1.5.3.FS6-(CEF-WIN-3.2526.1366.g8617e7c-32) (Chrome 47.0.2526.80)
Voice Server Version: Not Connected
Settings mode: Firestorm
Viewer Skin: Firestorm (CtrlAltStudio)
Font Used: Deja Vu (96 dpi)
Font Size Adjustment: 0 pt
UI Scaling: 1
Draw distance: 256 m
Bandwidth: 1500 kbit/s
LOD factor: 4
Render quality: Ultra (7/7)
Advanced Lighting Model: Yes
Texture memory: 1024 MB (1)
VFS (cache) creation time (UTC): 2016-5-21T22:31:40
Built with MSVC version 1800

 

Can you help me?  I do not understand how I can get this kind of lag on such a high end GPU and with so much RAM.

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Lucierda Solari wrote:

Can you help me?  I do not understand how I can get this kind of lag on such a high end GPU and with so much RAM.

Lots of possible factors here.

First, there is no such thing as a completely lag proof computer for Second Life. Some places are so heavily overload with objects and textures they are giving even the strongest computer a hard time. I've even seen SlGo servers break down under the pressure.

So one possible explanation why your computer is struggling harder now than it used to is simply that the scene is more complex now than before.

Another possible explanation is gpu deterioration. A graphics card will loose much of its performance over time, especially if it's driven hard. If you spend a lot of time in heavy sims with graphics settings very high, it's quite possible you'll have to replace the graphics card every year to stay on top.

There are probably other possible explanations too but those two are the most obvious ones.

Now, how to reduce the load on your poor overworked graphics card...

The first thing you should look at is probably the LOD factor. 4 is excessive, should never be necessary and it adds a lot to the object rendering load. Ideally the LOD factor should never be higher than 1 - those higher settings are only there to compensate for the flaws in poorly made sculpts and mesh. Unfortunately there is a lot of poorly made sculpts and mesh in SL so you may have to crank it up a little bit but not as high as 4. Try 2.

The next thing to look at is draw distance. Do you really need to see as far as 256 m? You decide. Draw distance has even more impact on render load than the LOD factor but it's actually something that is worth keeping for its own sake so you may want to keep it anyway. But remember, twice the draw distance means four times as many objects for your computer to handle.

If it's still not enough, I'm afraid you'll have to consider switching off Advanced Ligting Mode. Yes, those normal and specular maps can look great but they don't come cheap. I've done some tests on my own computer and found that ALM almost doubled the gpu load. I'm not sure how typical that number is but a serious increase in GPU laod it is.

Of course, if it's a place you own and control yourself, you may try to simplify the scene a bit too.

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In addition to waht ChinRey said - make sure you have not changed any of the Shadow or Ambient occlusion settings away from deafult in Phototools. Some of those settings can badly dent performance - great for taking high quality snapshots with shadows, but not so great for everyday use.

 

Go to World -> Photo & Video -> Phototools.

On the Light, DOF/Glow & Gen tabs, click the "D" button next to each setting to reset to default & see if that helps.

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ChinRey wrote:

Another possible explanation is gpu deterioration. A graphics card will loose much of its performance over time, especially if it's driven hard.

Umm. What? I can't even....  Do you mean... cooling effectiveness could decline as cruft builds up in the heatsink or the fan itself wears out, so the card throttles itself to avoid meltdown? Or... what's the theory of this case? I mean... capacitors can decay, I guess, but how this would cause gradual deterioration instead of increasingly intermittent failure....

*baffled*

Anyway, to try to be a bit useful: the OP mentioned that they didn't used to have the lag problem they're experiencing now. That's almost always due to a new attachment that's always in view.

(Hair is one very common culprit, and many Mesh hairstyles have way, way higher rendering complexity than seemingly comparable sculpties. Just because a creator sells Mesh hair doesn't mean they know anything about creating efficient Mesh hair. But there are many other possible sources of "attached lag", too.)

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Lucierda Solari wrote:

I am getting lag and the possible cause is because there are "too many complex objects in scene).  I find when I disable shadows it works better.  However, I did not have problems with shadows enabled before.

My specs are:

CPU: AMD FX-4130 Quad-Core Processor (3817.24 MHz)

Memory: 16385 MB

OS Version: Microsoft Windows 7 SP1 64-bit (Build 7601)

Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation

Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 760/PCIe/SSE2

Windows Graphics Driver Version: 10.18.0013.6519

OpenGL Version: 4.5.0 NVIDIA 365.19

RestrainedLove API: (disabled)

libcurl Version: libcurl/7.38.0 OpenSSL/1.0.1i zlib/1.2.8

J2C Decoder Version: KDU v7.7.1

Audio Driver Version: FMOD Ex 4.44.61

LLCEFLib/CEF Version: 1.5.3.FS6-(CEF-WIN-3.2526.1366.g8617e7c-32) (Chrome 47.0.2526.80)

Voice Server Version: Not Connected

Settings mode: Firestorm

Viewer Skin: Firestorm (CtrlAltStudio)

Font Used: Deja Vu (96 dpi)

Font Size Adjustment: 0 pt

UI Scaling: 1

Draw distance: 256 m  

Bandwidth: 1500 kbit/s

LOD factor: 4

Render quality: Ultra (7/7)

Advanced Lighting Model: Yes

Texture memory: 1024 MB (1)

VFS (cache) creation time (UTC): 2016-5-21T22:31:40

Built with MSVC version 1800

 

Can you help me?  I do not understand how I can get this kind of lag on such a high end GPU and with so much RAM.

Lower your draw distance to between 96 and 128.

Lower your LOD to between 2 and 3

Lower your bandwidth to 1000, less if you are wireless or have a low Speedtest to Tuscon AZ. http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/fs_speedtest

Those should help. My real queston is, why are you walking around on Ultra? I never set to Ultra unless i am taking pictures.

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Qie Niangao wrote:

Umm. What? I can't even....  Do you mean... cooling effectiveness could decline as cruft builds up in the heatsink or the fan itself wears out, so the card throttles itself to avoid meltdown?


Yes, unbelievable as it may sound, dust can actually be a problem. Of course, everybody know they need to vacuum clean their computer every day, and brush their teeth twice and shine their shoes and check the engine oil and tire air pressure before they drive off to work. All those obvious things that are part of everybody's daily routines. Some people do occasionally forget some of those things but when that causes problems, they have nobody but themselves to blame so let's ignore such cases.

I'm not sure what kind of solder is used for graphics cards but the commonly used alloys have melting points ranging from about 170 to 260 °C. Recommended working temperature for soldering electronics is usually around 320 °C, a bit higher with leadless alloys. I do know that the solder of a graphics card is well and truly melted at 250°C, so it must be a relatively low temperature alloy they use. In any case, local temperatures at "hotspots" can reach temperatures in that range even during moderate overheating. It can actually happen while the card as a whole is nice and cool. Even if the solder doesn't melt completely, the repeated heating and cooling will eventually cause it to crack, reducing the connectivity between the components (which as you said are much more rugged themselves). It's a vicious circle too, the worse the conenctions are, the harder the card has to work and the greater the risk for overheating is.

There is a trick to revitalize a graphics card that's on its last legs: put it in the oven and bake it at 250°C for long enough to let all the solder melt throroughly and (hopefully) settle back into place. It's crude and risky and should only be tried when you have nothing to loose but it's amazing how often it works.

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I really hope that was a tongue in cheek post...

250C is far beyond any graphics cards ability to withstand. Most have an upper limit of 110C.  Standard solder melts at 188C which is still far beyond what a graphics cards gpu can handle.

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:



Lower your draw distance to between 96 and 128.

Lower your LOD to between 2 and 3

Lower your bandwidth to 1000, less if you are wireless or have a low Speedtest to Tuscon AZ.

Those should help. My real queston is, why are you walking around on Ultra? I never set to Ultra unless i am taking pictures.

These are the settings I use, and never have a lag a problem. (I also have a relatively minimalist, non mesh avatar.)

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

I really hope that was a tongue in cheek post...

Not at all. Remember I was talking about local overheating. A single microscopic drop of solder heats up for a fraction of a second and it goes slightly out of position. Not enough to matter in itself but if it happens over and over and over again, the cummulative effect is significant. It doesn't really have to melt either, it expands when warmed up and shrinks when cooled down. Eventually It'll start to crack. A store I used to work at (and still do occasionally) also has a fairly big sound engineer department and I can assure you we know this problem very, very well. Not with graphics cards of course but there's no reason why they should be different from other computer components in this respect.

As for baking a failing graphics card at 250C, sorry I did get the temperature wrong - try 200 instead:

http://lifehacker.com/5823227/save-dying-video-cards-with-a-quick-bake-in-the-oven

I haven't tried it myself but one of the teachers at Builders Brewery did and it worked for him.

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ChinRey wrote:

Yes, unbelievable as it may sound, dust can actually be a problem.


Oh, okay, as long as that's what we're talking about, then yeah, I can see how a graphics card's performance could deteriorate as it throttles clockspeed to compensate for less efficient cooling. (Otherwise, it sounded as if GPUs were subject to creeping decrepitude, maybe a little rheumatism, some aches and pains... the sorta thing that might benefit from chondroitin, glucosamine, and a touch* of sherry.)

(I did actually burn out a graphics card once, early in my SL experience. It was fairly cataclysmic: smoldering ICs and a lot more melted than a solder joint, but I guess I can imagine some may be luckier.)

_____

* Edit: you can guess the bleepworthy quantity of sherry I'd originally specified. Hint: three letters, starts with "n", ends in "p", and isn't "nap".

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Qie Niangao wrote:

Oh, okay, as long as that's what we're talking about, then yeah, I can see how a graphics card's performance could deteriorate as it throttles clockspeed to compensate for less efficient cooling. (Otherwise, it sounded as if GPUs were subject to creeping decrepitude, maybe a little rheumatism, some aches and pains... the sorta thing that might benefit from chondroitin, glucosamine, and a touch* of sherry.)


And they do as I said in the second part of my post and in my reply to Drake1. The connection between the components gradually loose conductivity over time, the more heat they're exposed to, the faster they deteriorate. This may not cause reduced perfomrance directly. But it sure increases the heat which again forces the clockspeed to be throttled so it goes for the same.

However, on second thought this may actually be an Eruopean problem only which might explain why you're not familiar with. It's illegal to sell electronic equipment that uses lead in the solder alloy in Europe and the leadfree alternatives we are forced to use are of much poorer quality than traditional solder. With the heavier equipment the guys can jsut resolder everything (perversely it's perfectly legal to sell and use proper solder as long as it's not part of a finished product) but we haven't found a soldering iron small enough for digital circuits yet so we just have to accept that they wear out much faster than they used to.

Edit: Found this in case anybody is interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whisker_%28metallurgy%29 May explain quite a lot of it.

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Lucierda Solari wrote:

Taking pictures is what I do on Second Life.

Ok, fair enough.. Did you try any of the suggestions? When, exactly, did this problem start?

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