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LL screwed up my Lindens purchase


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I was trying to buy some Lindens so I can pay my tier fees and got this message:

 

"

Your Linden Dollar Order

Due to market fluctuations, your order of L$ 20,000 now costs more than you have paid. The full amount of your payment has been returned to your account balance, which you can use to make future purchases or try your LindeX™ purchase again."

 

So I waited for a while and then tried again and got this:

 

We are unable to complete your request.

This transaction would exceed your monthly trading limit by US$42.32.
Your monthly trading limit is US$300.00"

So now I am screwed for tier fees because of LL computer screwup? Seems SL is getting less and less enjoyable. 

 

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Make a free call to the Billing number, they are there 24/7 & I would think they can deduct the failed transaction from your limit.

Toll-Free (US/Canada)
800.294.1067
Long-Distance
703.286.6277

Our Billing team is available 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
Local Toll-Free numbers

* France: 0805.101.490
* Germany: 0800.664.5510
* Japan: 0066.33.132.830
* Portugal: 800.814.450
* Spain: 800.300.560
* UK: 0800.048.4646
* Support is in English Only

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Peewee Musytari wrote:

Make a free call to the Billing number, they are there 24/7 & I would think they can deduct the failed transaction from your limit.

Toll-Free (US/Canada)

800.294.1067

Long-Distance

703.286.6277

 

Our Billing team is available 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

Local Toll-Free numbers

 

* France: 0805.101.490

* Germany: 0800.664.5510

* Japan: 0066.33.132.830

* Portugal: 800.814.450

* Spain: 800.300.560

* UK: 0800.048.4646

* Support is in English Only

 

 

only good if youre in the USA now..I called the UK billing support number and was told by the guy answering they cant now helpme because Im in the UK. Terrific

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The same just happened to me - LL has taken money from my credit card and trasnformed it into US dollars instead of the Lindens I requested and it's now in my USD credit balance (what do I want with USD??? I'm European) which to access I have to open a Paypal account... Not only that, I get charged an extra $1 fee for the transaction!!! I am not at amused. I'll trying phoning (more expense!) but frankly, if LL is trying to convince me NOT to spend a penny more in SL, they're succeeding very nicely.

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Carole Franizzi wrote:

The same just happened to me - LL has taken money from my credit card and trasnformed it into US dollars instead of the Lindens I requested and it's now in my USD credit balance ...

Why not just use Lindex to buy L$? If you execute a limit buy order, you can actually get more L$ than if you let them do it automatically at the "going rate". If you can get an extra L$5 for every dollar you spend, a $50USD purchase will get you back that $1USD you paid for conversion.

 

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That's what I ever say to people, but I don't know why, people are suspicious. In these forums, when telling somone to sell their L$ in Lindex - limit sell, I received a "do you think I am crazy to use it?" as response :smileysurprised:

For some time now, many people are complaining about failings when buying L$. I have enough L$ to fullfil all my needs for the next 2 months (if I don't sell anything in this time), so I will not have to buy any L$ soon. But if I had to, I would try to send US$ to my account, and than use it to buy L$ in limit buy (anyway, I think that limit buy don't charge you directly from your payment method, but you have to have US$ in credit).

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Vania Chaplin wrote:

That's what I ever say to people, but I don't know why, people are suspicious. In these forums, when telling somone to sell their L$ in Lindex - limit sell, I received a "do you think I am crazy to use it?" as response :smileysurprised:


For some time now, many people are complaining about failings when buying L$. I have enough L$ to fullfil all my needs for the next 2 months (if I don't sell anything in this time), so I will not have to buy any L$ soon. But if I had to, I would try to send US$ to my account, and than use it to buy L$ in limit buy (anyway, I think that limit buy don't charge you directly from your payment method, but you have to have US$ in credit).

 

I strongly suspect that the "Lindex Two-Step" is their method of disconnecting the value of the L$ from the US$ .. to avoid legal entanglements regarding "Is the Linden Dollar a Real Currency or Not?" If that is the case, it makes perfect sense for them to have changed the way they handle non-US currency transactions too; one step to convert it into a US$ balance in your account then a second step to convert that into L$ ... if you wish.

The "Limit Buy/Sell" options are always the best. Right now, if I put L$10,000 up for sale using the Market Sell option, it will only net me (approximately) $37.22USD. But if I use the Limit Sell option at L$254 per USD (the midpoint between the end-points of the two "sides") then I will net about $37.96. Yes, that extra $0.74 is not a whole lot of money, but when you pay $1.00 for the transaction out to or in from PayPal, it nearly makes up for the processing fee ... and if you sell or buy more, it more than makes up for it.

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Carole Franizzi wrote:

If only I knew what a limit buy order was....

 

Ahh .. sorry. I'll dig a bit deeper then.

On this page LindeX™ Exchange: Buy L$ there are two sections that allow you to enter the details of your purchase. One has the subtitle "(Market Buy)" and the other has the subtitle "(Limit Buy)".

A "Market Buy" uses the current Market Value (which is calculated based on current market statistics) and is generally in the House's favor. In other words, the number of L$ you receive for each dollar is set by Linden Lab and is generally not the best deal you can get.

A "Limit Buy" allows you to specify how many L$ you want for each dollar spent. This gives you more control over the exchange rate and can give you a bit of an edge in the exchange.

So, how do you know what exchange rate to enter? Lower on that page are two columns of numbers. The left-hand column (called Open Sell Orders) shows the current sales orders placed by Linden Lab and other Residents. The top number in that column pretty much pegs the best of the possible exchange rates. (Numbers further down the column get progressively worse .. or at least less to your advantage.)

The right-hand column (called Open Buy Orders) shows the current purchase orders, again placed by Linden Lab and other Residents. The top number in that column shows you the best of the offers with numbers further down getting progressively worse ... again less toward your advantage.

When you buy L$, you want to get as many for your dollars as you can. So you would look at the Open Sell Orders column to get the top listed exchange rate, then look at the Open Buy Orders column and note the top listed exchange rate there too. These two numbers define the "bracket".

if you "Limit" your purchase to the exchange rate shown at the top of the Open Sell Orders, your purchase will happen instantly (because there are open sell orders at that rate) but your purchase won't be at the best rate possible. However if you Limit your purchase to the exchange rate shown at the top of the Open Buy Orders column, you will get a better exchange rate but it might not happen for some time. (Just like a MonEx or Stock Exchange, prices wander some, but usually not all the way from end to end of the Bracket in a single day.)

So .. what I do is pick a number right in the middle of the Bracket ends. I generally manage to buy or sell my L$ within a few hours, usually within a few minutes. However I'm a fairly conservative type ... others are more into the speculation end of the game. What number you enter for your Limit Buy (or Limit Sell) depends on how fast you need to do the exchange and your own personal level of speculation savvy.

The bottom line is ... with no risk and a bit of patience (and planning ahead) you can gain a pretty significant advantage when buying or selling L$. If you are doing a fairly large transaction ($50USD or more) then the advantage you gain can more than make up for the fees you pay along the way.

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Thank you Darrius for this concise explanation of how the "Limit Buy" function worked.  I had been looking at using it myself.  I wasn't happy with getting only 249L for my dollar the other day.  I seemed to remember it wasn't too long ago I was getting over 260L if my memory serves me right.

But I looking at the buy and sell charts I was concerned if I placed an order to get more Lindens for my buck that it could take forever.

The other thing that I am still not clear on is will my account (my method of payment) be charged when I place my order or when it is completed.  I did read in the FAQ that you could cancel an order but this was not clear.

What's the longest you you've had to wait for a buy order to be completed?

Thanks.

 

P.S.  I wonder if the reason that I am not seeing open sell orders listed above the 249L mark today is because the buy order's are getting filled before that data updates.

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You're welcome Perrie. The Lindex has been a wee bit "depressed" lately, but it tends to vary some just as any other monetary market does. For their part, Linden Lab does an admirable job of keeping it from swinging wildly out of control in either direction. (There are quite a few folks in Second Life that are MUCH more skilled at the Lindex and money markets than me too. I'm hoping some of them swing by and pull me back outta this quicksand I've wandered into. LOL)

I have waited up to a day before .. long time ago. I got a bit "dangerous" in my exchange rate and wound up with a value far enough out of kilter that I probably would have waited much much longer.  Since I needed the L$ to pay rent (on a private island), I cancelled that order and entered a new one with a bit less optimism .. and got my L$ within an hour.

When you place a Buy Order (either Market or Limit) I believe they put a "Hold" against your US$ balance to prevent you overstepping your limits, but when your Buy Order is completed or cancelled, any excess funds are released right away. (I am pretty sure that's how it works at least, but as I said earlier ... there are others with better experience on the details.)

The ends of the Bracket are controlled by Linden Lab by means of two "Blocking Orders" placed by Currency Linden. One Sell Order at the bottom end and one Buy Order at the top. They are placed automatically based on their Lindex software and how they calculate the market ranges.

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Thank you very much for the detailed explanation. It was very good of you to spend so much time - sadly, for me, it doesn't seem relevant, as I don't get the limit buy option you mention (can this be only for US clients?). My only option on the page you linked is Market Buy, which allows me only to use my credit card as a payment method...which brings me back to square one...I still have a USD balance which I don't appear to be able to access.

It looks like my shopping days are over.

I'm finding this pretty bewildering. If, for any reason, LL has had to change its micro-economy system, you'd think they would have supplied clearer infomation and the little trick of "forcing" me to buy USD, without any explanation or warning when I tried to buy Lindens, is more than a little tacky.

Again, Darrius, kindest thanks for your time.

 

 

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Carole Franizzi wrote:

Thank you very much for the detailed explanation. It was very good of you to spend so much time - sadly, for me, it doesn't seem relevant, as I don't get the limit buy option you mention (can this be only for US clients?). My only option on the page you linked is Market Buy, which allows me only to use my credit card as a payment method...which brings me back to square one...I still have a USD balance which I don't appear to be able to access.

You are very welcome Carole, but don't give up yet.

On the page Linden Dollar Exchange Settings .. what do you see?

Here is what I see:

Linden Dollar Exchange Settings.png

Double-check that your have selected Advanced as I have .. this *might* just fix it for you. If not? File a ticket because that really does not sound right.

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I just got off the phone with UK support. The number is +44-(0)20-3362-0268, which translates to:

020-3362-0268 if dialing from within the UK

3362-0268 if dialing from within London

I had no problem getting through to someone at 16:30 on Saturday. The person was very helpful.

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Darrius provides a very good explanation. It is certainly worth learning about 'bid' and 'ask' pricing. If I may, I'd like to add to Darrius's comments. The price mechanism is an amazing information system. Sadly, most people are so used to fixed prices that they do not see the price mechanism at work.

In all financial transactions, there is a thing being transacted. The 'thing' can be a dress or a package of film rights or a CDO (collateralized debt obligation, a derivative) based on a MBS (mortgage-backed security). Needless to say, if a 'thing' exists, it has an owner. The owner may wish to sell the 'thing'.

Sometimes there are no potential buyers (my fingernail clippings). Sometimes there are many potential buyers (a popular paperback). Sometimes, there are no sellers (the National Gallery in London will not sell Van Gogh's Sunflowers). Sometimes there are many sellers (bicycles). Most of the time, there are many sellers and many potential buyers (T-shirts, Linden Dollars). In this case, one must think of pools of sellers (everyone who sells T-shirts) and pools of buyers (everyone who wants T-shirts). Within these pools, individuals have different prices in mind. Some sellers want a high price for their T-shirts; others want a lesser price; others want a low price. The same is true of potential buyers. Some want to spend very little; some are willing to pay more; some are willing to pay a lot.

The range of prices in the buyer pool is called 'bid spread' or simply 'bid'. The range of prices in the seller pool is called 'ask spread' or simply 'ask'. Where the price ranges overlap, a transaction occurs (because a buyer and seller agree to a price that they are both happy with). It's kinda like a dance where both girl and boy want to dance with each other.

Most of the time, though, buyers and sellers flirt with each other. As with big dances, there is a pool of girls and a pool of boys milling around, checking each other out. Susan wants to dance with Bob, but Bob doesn't seem interested. Will she settle for Joe? Hmmm, Joe wants to dance with Debbie. He'd settle for Barbara, but not Susan. Barbara wants to dance with Carl, but she'd settle for Joe. Ta-da! Barbara and Joe start dancing. Sometimes, girls and boys are so picky that they never get a dance. They're the ones hugging the walls trying to look cool - all night. Others finally give in during the last hour and dance with anyone they can find.

This is exactly what is happening with the Lindex exchange. There is a bid pool and an asked pool. Those in each pool who are closest in terms of price get to dance. Those who are furthest apart hug the wall and never get a dance (unless something weird happens like a flood of new people into the dancehall).

So, to use the Lindex, you need to know how to flirt. Jim wants 251, Ben wants 250, Sarah is offering 255 and Debbie is offering 259. Jim and Sarah are closest. Will one of them walk over to the other? Woops, Fred swoops in and steals Sarah away by offering 254!

Finance is a dance. It's that simple. The hard part is factoring in the cost of risk associated with any 'thing'. Mr. Dancing Dude may have the clap, but you won't know until after you've 'bought' him. This is essentially what happened with CDOs based on MBSs. It didn't help that the supposedly older and wiser regulars in the dancehall (the rating agencies) said Dancing Dude might be a rake, but he was at least clean.

 

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Deltango Vale wrote:

Darrius provides a very good explanation. It is certainly worth learning about 'bid' and 'ask' pricing. If I may, I'd like to add to Darrius's comments. The price mechanism is an amazing information system. Sadly, most people are so used to fixed prices that they do not see the price mechanism at work.

In all financial transactions, there is a thing being transacted. The 'thing' can be a dress or a package of film rights or a CDO (collateralized debt obligation, a derivative) based on a MBS (mortgage-backed security). Needless to say, if a 'thing' exists, it has an owner. The owner may wish to sell the 'thing'.

Sometimes there are no potential buyers (my fingernail clippings). Sometimes there are many potential buyers (a popular paperback). Sometimes, there are no sellers (the National Gallery in London will not sell Van Gogh's
Sunflowers
). Sometimes there are many sellers (bicycles). Most of the time, there are many sellers and many potential buyers (T-shirts, Linden Dollars). In this case, one must think of pools of sellers (everyone who sells T-shirts) and pools of buyers (everyone who wants T-shirts). Within these pools, individuals have different prices in mind. Some sellers want a high price for their T-shirts; others want a lesser price; others want a low price. The same is true of potential buyers. Some want to spend very little; some are willing to pay more; some are willing to pay a lot.

The range of prices in the buyer pool is called 'bid spread' or simply 'bid'. The range of prices in the seller pool is called 'ask spread' or simply 'ask'. Where the price ranges overlap, a transaction occurs (because a buyer and seller agree to a price that they are both happy with). It's kinda like a dance where both girl and boy
want
to dance with each other.

Most of the time, though, buyers and sellers flirt with each other. As with big dances, there is a pool of girls and a pool of boys milling around, checking each other out. Susan wants to dance with Bob, but Bob doesn't seem interested. Will she settle for Joe? Hmmm, Joe wants to dance with Debbie. He'd settle for Barbara, but not Susan. Barbara wants to dance with Carl, but she'd settle for Joe. Ta-da! Barbara and Joe start dancing. Sometimes, girls and boys are so picky that they never get a dance. They're the ones hugging the walls trying to look cool - all night. Others finally give in during the last hour and dance with anyone they can find.

This is exactly what is happening with the Lindex exchange. There is a bid pool and an asked pool. Those in each pool who are closest in terms of price get to dance. Those who are furthest apart hug the wall and never get a dance (unless something weird happens like a flood of new people into the dancehall).

So, to use the Lindex, you need to know how to flirt. Jim wants 251, Ben wants 250, Sarah is offering 255 and Debbie is offering 259. Jim and Sarah are closest. Will one of them walk over to the other? Woops, Fred swoops in and steals Sarah away by offering 254!

Finance is a dance. It's that simple. The hard part is factoring in the cost of
risk
associated with any 'thing'. Mr. Dancing Dude may have the clap, but you won't know until after you've 'bought' him. This is essentially what happened with CDOs based on MBSs. It didn't help that the supposedly older and wiser regulars in the dancehall (the rating agencies) said Dancing Dude might be a rake, but he was at least clean.

 

See? I toldya there was a ton of people smarter than me around. WOW! I loved your analogy Deltango. Thank you!

 

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Carole Franizzi wrote:

Carole dons her best home-made tie-dye silks and prostrates herself at you feet in gratitude.

You are a GENIUS! Now why on earth can't LL include clear instructions on their web pages???

*skips off happily to go shopping*

 

*BIG GRIN* And therein lay the best reward for my efforts .. a "Happy Customer".

You're very welcome Carole (and anyone else that benefits from this conversation). Now get out there and pump up that economy!

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