Copy/Mod Permissions set, But Customers say Not.

[Codex Alpha]



What is up with permissions?

I recently spent some time away honing my meshcraft and have returned with a vengeance to create new objects for SL and update the older ones with newer mesh, etc.

Suddenly my new items don't want to cooperate with the permissions I give them,  and new owners are finding they can not copy or modify the items, even though the permissions have been set.

 

When testing on cubes and such,  I don't seem to have any issues, the permissions are as I have set them.

These seems to affect my own meshes, some even being simple 'lantern' meshes with simple script.

All meshes, textures, and scripts are owned by me, so what could possibly be the problem?

 



So far I have connected all my meshes as desired, then set the copy/mod permissions. However, customers and tests with an alt clearly show they are getting no copy or mod permissions.

What is going on?
Thanks for your help.

 

 

 

 

SOLUTION: Ensure you have copy permissions on each script,image,notecard, animation, etc if you wish for the object to be copied.

On some of my older products, I had used scripts in individual child prims (linkset) that I had negated to set copy permissions on.

Also, when adding my own animation/sit poses in some products, I had dragged them from my inventory into the object and also not setting copy permissions on those.

Also, instead of putting animation scripts like llSetTextureAnim in individual linked items, consider activating them from your master script using llSetLINKTextureAnim (for example). This cuts down on permission errors (and time) by having to go back and check individual prims in your linkset.

Thanks for all that helped.

[Rolig Loon]

See my answer to your identical question at https://community.secondlife.com/t5/Creation/Is-there-any-reason-why-I-can-t-set-copy-mod-permission-on-my/qaq-p/3026339

[Codex Alpha]

 

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Rolig Loon wrote:

See my answer to your identical question at

https://community.secondlife.com/t5/Creation/Is-there-any-reason-why-I-can-t-set-copy-mod-permission-on-my/qaq-p/3026339

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Rolig Loon wrote:

I suspect that you have been setting permissions on the objects while they are still in your inventory, which means that they will not become effective until they are rezzed. The next owner will not see the perms you have set. The way to beat that is to be sure to set perms only on objects that are in world.

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Yes! This may be the case. I may have been doing that lately and/or on past objects that may be causing this.

On my tests of course, I set the properties on the test cubes in the world, and not in my inventory, so never thought it would make a difference.

In the past, because of the same issue, I would change the properties of the object in my inventory list, then upload it back up to the MP, unaware this would not change a thing.

I will double check this

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Rolig Loon wrote:

Also, set the Advanced Permissions option in your Build menu so that you see not only the normal perms but also the slam bit that indicates whether the next owner perms are effective or not. Read more about that at

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Debug_Permissions

. Finally, before you put a product on the market, have your alt or a friend double check the perms, even if you are sure that they are correct.

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Yes, thank you very much for your help.

I will update you here with my results asap.

[Codex Alpha]

UPDATE: 9pm PST 04.30.16

So I've followed the instructions on the Debug Permissions page, and followed the instructions;

"The important lesson here: if you can avoid it, do NOT change an object's permissions when it's in your inventory. If you do, be sure to rez it to apply ("slam") those permissions, then take the resulting copy."

So I dragged a copy to rez, changed the permissions, deleted the old inventory item, and saved the copy with the proper permissions. However the change is still ignored. The slam-bit refuses to register the changes?



So permissions in-world are correct.

Saving the object to inventory with correct permissions is not changing the slam bit

The item when rezzed again, shows correct permissions (to me)

The item shared with an alt that has correct permissions, still denies copy and mod permissions to New Owner

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Changing the slam bit in inventory, then rezzing it to 'apply' the changes, and saving the resultant copy, shows slam bit changes, but when rezzed by alt/customer still denies copy/mod.

These issues do not seem to have a problem with test cubes...

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Update: 9:37pm

Changing permissions on simple cubes are as expected. Even changing them in inventory (the wrong way) still gains the results I would expect following the guidelines.

On mesh however and linked meshes I have made, the permissions are ignored. I was, in fact doing it correctly, but still not getting the permissions one would expect.

Update: 10pm

Yep nothing works. Unlinking objects, rebuilding objects,etc.

Any pre-existing linked object products simply ignore permissions changes, no matter what.

Update: 11pm:



Rebuilding items from the base meshes, with fresh scripts, objects and such, and setting copy/mod permissions on the newly created and 'pure' objects does nothing.

Permissions will not change.

Slam bit still registers non-copy, and customer says no-copy still.

 

 

[Rolig Loon]

That's very strange.  You've done more exhaustive experiments than I might have thought of.  It's time to grasp at straws.  Have you tried doing any of those experiments:

With a different viewer?

On a different region?

With full-perm mesh that someone else made?

[Pamela Galli]

Once I had a house go no copy or no mod, can't remember which. I had to investigate every prim, till I found that the permissions on the texture on a butterfly on a rose bush were not full perm to me.

Also had another house with a corrupted mega prim floor, which while seemingly full perm to me, would turn the whole house no mode as soon as any prim was unlinked.

i had two other things that I could never set correct next owner perms on, never figured out why, but it was when I was a new builder and might just not have know how to look.

[Codex Alpha]

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Rolig Loon wrote:

That's very strange.  You've done more exhaustive experiments than I might have thought of.  It's time to grasp at straws.  Have you tried doing any of those experiments:

With a different viewer?

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Yes. Originally I had followed the instructions using the SL viewer, but the SL viewer didn't allow me to see the slam bit settings on the object in inventory, only when it was rezzed in the world. I switched to Firestorm viewer which allowed me to see it both in rezzed state and in object inventory. That was how I discovered the slam bit was not changing at all (but it did in newly created default cube prims)

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Rolig Loon wrote:

On a different region?

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Yes. I have also been having problems setting the land of my premium "default" home to my group, which appears to still exist, but I cannot change it's properties either (ex. group image). I can add and remove group members, and they appear to be in the group, but have no permissions to build on my land that I have set to group either.

This is why I tried abandoning the land seeing if it was the region glitching permissions, but no - the problem persists

The common denominator with these recent issues has been I can't set permissions flags on anything

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Rolig Loon wrote:

With full-perm mesh that someone else made?

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No, these all involve meshes, textures and scripts I have created myself and uploaded into Second Life. Items I have created, uploaded and put to market from 2 weeks ago don't have these issues, only in the last week's objects seem to be affected - I've had to unlist about 10 items because they have their permissions incorrect - thought I know for a fact I shouldn't have set them incorrectly in the first place.

SUMMARY:  I cannot set any permissions on existing items I have made, either in the inventory or already existing on the marketplace. I had uploaded items to update old items, and uploaded new ones, but none of them have the permissions I know I set - and I cannot change the permissions on existing items that I copy back into my inventory and test there...

Ironically, if I leave the Transfer flag on but not the copy flag, the next owner has transfer.... lol

[Codex Alpha]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

Once I had a house go no copy or no mod, can't remember which. I had to investigate every prim, till I found that the permissions on the texture on a butterfly on a rose bush were not full perm to me.

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Okay, I checked that. I wouldn't expect it to be a problem.

I have had a 'free' item using these textures in the past, that now I cannot change permissions to copy on either;

Linden Texture: "Rock - White Patches" C/M/T permissions | owner: Alexandria Linden

Linden Texture: "AF_woodpaneling.tga" C/M/T permissions | owner: entity0x

Linden Texture: "Gravel_45_seamless_256" C/M/T permissions | owner: entity0x

The rock texture had been on an experimental mesh I used that I incorporated later and forgot about that texture.

However, after correcting that texture, and ensuring I was the owner of all the textures, set the copy bit once again, which was ignored - same result.

To ensure there are no texture conflicts,  I tested meshes with no textures used also have the same effect - the copy bit refuses to be set or unset.

I simply do not have permissions on my own objects to set copy or not, even when I am using my own textures, meshes, and even plainly colored objects.

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Pamela Galli wrote:

Also had another house with a corrupted mega prim floor, which while seemingly full perm to me, would turn the whole house no mode as soon as any prim was unlinked.

i had two other things that I could never set correct next owner perms on, never figured out why, but it was when I was a new builder and might just not have know how to look.

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I appreciate your response, and ensured that I did that.

I posted earlier that I recreated an item from complete scratch, from the fresh uploaded mesh, fresh prims I had to use, and fresh scripts to ensure none were corrupted like the original item.

The problem persists, the system is ignoring any permission flags I try to set on them - but not on all new prim-based and linked items I did for testing - with those I could change permissions both in the inventory AND in the world.

My only guess is that it my own meshes are affected somehow, since it is only doing it with mesh products about 2 weeks old only.

That being said, I can't even update OLDER items I have on the MP, as I also can no longer change their permissions either.

I have the know-how, that's the thing, this is why this so confusing to me. I thought it was maybe something I forgot to do or was doing something, since I hadn't updated or uploaded much in the last few months, as I was honing my modeling.

[Pamela Galli]

If not already done:  try just the mesh, no scripts or textures.

[Codex Alpha]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

If not already done:  try just the mesh, no scripts or textures.

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Looks like we were on the right track after all.

In my excitement in making my new meshes, I may have incorporated older prim and mesh pieces that I had textured with 'test' textures from the Linden Library section that registers as me not being the owner, as in the example above in my reply to you (please read again, I updated it).

This would definitely explain a lot, as in my absence from SL working on 3D skills, I've found multiple textures on different faces I must have missed - and may be causing  a problem across many items.

Some 100% meshes that are using original baked textures still have this problem, but now I will have to go back and ensure there isn't an errant texture somewhere.

Very weird, but this handles half of the problem, especially on older models where this may have been quite a common mistake, and couldn't set copy on those either..

I very much appreciate your help and will keep you both updated.

I dont think its the full solution, but it's  a start and something I can try.

I did already rebuild my newest mesh update to test this, but it had failed on setting copy too.

With this new information, I will go back and ensure no errant prims I may have recycled into new builds don't hold textures I didnt' intend. Thanks.

UPDATE 10:50am: Nope, not the Linden textures causing the issues.

When I add a script, that is when the copy permissions have issues; at least in the products I tested.

Original Mesh # 1: Adding a script causes me to not be able to change permissions

Original Mesh # 2: Adding a script causes me to not be able change permissions

In-World Cubes: Adding a simple script with only llTargetOmega(<1.0,0.0,0.0>, 1.0, 1.0>);  causes me to not be able to change permissions.

One more thing: in order to ensure it is not LL's starter land regions causing and issue, I also tested the simple cube and script in Premium Sandbox Formosa, with the same results: copy permissions cannot be change after adding  a simple script.

CONCLUSION: Scripts, even though I create and own them all myself, and even scripts made with simple commands within the object/mesh itself, causes me to not be able to change permissions.

 

 

[Rolig Loon]

And the perms on the scripts are set properly?

This is VERY strange indeed.  I have been scripting in LSL for nine years now, and have never had a script with proper perms do what you are observing.  I set perms on scripts for general distribution to Copy/Transfer/NoMod unless there's a good reason to do it differently.

[Whirly Fizzle]

Are you 100% sure that you have set the next owner permissions correctly on the scripts themselves?

[Pamela Galli]

Also, since mod things with no mod scripts show as no mod in inventory, sometimes buyers think the,whole thing is no mod.

[Codex Alpha]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

Also, since mod things with no mod scripts show as no mod in inventory, sometimes buyers think the,whole thing is no mod.

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That is true, that is why we used the Debug_Permissions feature to ensure we were getting results.

I have used EZ-Sit and AvSitter, and they put those flags on your stuff in your inventory, and it really freaked me out because I thought I got locked out of my own stuff for using their stuff

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Rolig Loon wrote:

And the perms on the scripts are set properly?

This is VERY strange indeed.  I have been scripting in LSL for nine years now, and have never had a script with proper perms do what you are observing.  I set perms on scripts for general distribution to Copy/Transfer/NoMod unless there's a good reason to do it differently.

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Whirly Fizzle wrote:

Are you 100% sure that you have set the next owner permissions correctly on the scripts themselves?

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I'm an idiot if that's all it is.

Goes to show the power of learning the wrong information early. I didn't even consider that was even the issue, as I had learned, or misunderstood, the permission system and assumed the script would adopt the same flags as all the linked items. Never felt I had to, but it would explain those issues in the past as well.

How I had solved it then - being in a hurry - that setting copy on the script allowed the item to be copied - but from what I had learned it felt wrong, and appeared as though people could copy my scripts and textures contained into the item into their inventory  - so I thought that couldn't be good.

Now with more advanced scripts and mesh Ideas that I'm working on, this lack of knowlege really blindsided me.

So that's great. I just noobed out on all of this...

So umm now how to save face?  Umm I proved I make a hell of a mean tester?LOL

God I suck some times.

But you ladies don't suck. Thanks for the help... and i feel stupid.

But I'm happy now cuz now I can fix everything and move on with making cool stuff!

[Rolig Loon]

Don't feel too bad.  Hardly a week goes by that I don't make some kind of bonehead mistake with permissions. I think Linden Lab designed the system to teach us humility.  Whap yourself on the forehead with an open palm a few times.  It helps.

[Codex Alpha]

Looks like most of the issue was returning to older items I had created and wanted to 'optimize' and had used scripts I needed in child linked prims.

I had already moved on using llSetLink-based scripting, but had forgot the older ones were not as efficient.

Thanks for all your help, it is always much appreciated.