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Confused about mesh bodies


EllieAnne Silverfall
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Hi all!

I've been away from SL for a long time, most of the last five years. I have popped in from time to time, enough to see the current trends, but not enough to fall in step completely. At some point I invested in Slink hands and feet and I have fallen in love with mesh. Here's where my confusion lies. 

I worked very hard on my system avi to achieve the body/face that I wanted. I like a natural/rl look. I am keenly interested in a mesh body because I love how much better the clothes fit on the avis I've seen. BUT, I don't want to loose my look, and I certainly don't want to look like a clone; I enjoy being unique. Is there a way I will be able to maintain my look, but with an updated mesh body? 

Please help!

Thanks so much!

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you totally can, with a mesh body you'r not hold to wear a mesh head too, so your look will be unchanged, only your bodycurves will be the ones of the body.

Most bodies will follow some, not all, of the sliders from the normal system shape.

You can find more info about bodies en heads here

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Mesh bodies will not respond to most system sliders however there are a few bodies out there that offer different styles. Check out Belleza for three versions.  Maitreya's Lara body is the most popular (I use that one) and Slink has another popular version.  Good luck and have fun!

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I'm very much like you (except for the fact that I didn't leave SL for five years). I always loved that my avatar didn't look like a clone. So I was careful, when I got into mesh bodies.

I went out and brought a couple of demos of the most popular bodies and tried them. I looked at their HUDs, looked if there were appliers for them for the skin I had and experimented how good the bodies responded to the sliders of my shape. At the end I settled for the Maitreya Lara, but thats a personal choice. I tweaked my shape a bit and recreated my apperance just the way I was used to it before (only much smoother). You can even keep using your slink hands and feet, if you like to.

A mesh body will not replace your head, so you can keep your face. Just try demos before you purchase one and think about maybe buying a new skin (if yours is 5 years old, there might not be an applier for it).

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Most mesh bodies respond just fine to the usual shape sliders. However, of course, different mesh bodies do have some differences between each other, such as the default shapes and sizes of different body parts, and compatibility for some with regards to skins and clothing. Try demos!! My usual method is to grab a bunch of them and then head to a quiet sim, hop on a pose stand, and try them all on one at a time, comparing and contrasting the shapes and HUD's until I find the one that's right for me. If you're particularly in love with your skin, you might want to check what bodies your skin creator has made appliers for.

Check out Mesh Body Addicts for reviews and SLURL's for lots of different bodies.

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I agree that the Demo option is the best bet. I have tried Maitreya and Belleza so far - will need to try more too. I think if I make the plunge I will keep my old head for now. Just curious - how felxible are the heads to make them unique? Do they adjust to the sliders too? (I can always pose this question in a new thread when the time comes). 

 

So which bodies should I try (for a more realistic look)? 

 

Thanks again!

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> how felxible are the heads to make them unique?

Not very.  You can change the eyes, brows and mouth a little with their HUDs and of course hair and makeup colors but the scale and shape are set. 

 

> Do they adjust to the sliders too?

In general, no.  I remember seeing one out there that would stretch and flatten with the sliders but it more of an oddity that rule of thumb.

 

>So which bodies should I try (for a more realistic look)? 

Mine ;)  (sorry, they would take away my smart ass license if I let that one slip by)
That really depends on what you think of as realistic.  I believe any of the popular bodies can do this.  TMP (although I do not like it) can give you stronger legs without looking cartoonish.  Slink Physique has a more "girl next door" type of curves. I live in Maitreya and love it even if I have to slide the leg muscles way up to get my linebacker thighs. (that's a dig at someone else so don't worry if it doesn't make sense:))

 

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EllieAnne Silverfall wrote:

I agree that the Demo option is the best bet. I have tried Maitreya and Belleza so far - will need to try more too. I think if I make the plunge I will keep my old head for now. Just curious - how felxible are the heads to make them unique? Do they adjust to the sliders too? (I can always pose this question in a new thread when the time comes). 

 
Heads do not respond to sliders in any way to make you unique.

So which bodies should I try (for a more realistic look)? 

 That depends on what you mean by "realistic". I would try all of them except for TMP, I have found it has the hardest fit of any of them and mesh clothing does not work well with it.

Thanks again!

 

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I've heard there's something being worked on for heads to make them more customizable, but I don't know the details. At the moment, customizability on heads is extremely limited; I'd give them a pass, for now, unless you take a lot of photos. 

I love Maitreya; it's my absolute go-to body. Although I prefer the look of TMP just slightly, I find it far too difficult to work with for it to be something I use. Belleza is nice, particularly in that in comes with three body shapes. Slink is good, although I never did like the look of it on me. Lena Perky isn't bad. It really depends on what you like with your shape, what appliers are available for you, and what you're looking for in general. Do keep those alpha HUD's in mind; some are better than others. 

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Venus Petrov wrote:

Mesh bodies will not respond to most system sliders however there are a few bodies out there that offer different styles. Check out Belleza for three versions.  Maitreya's Lara body is the most popular (I use that one) and Slink has another popular version.

Actually mesh bodies will respond to almost every body slider.

mesh HEADS however will not.

Belleza noted above comes with all three versions in one package - you get three times the bodies other brands offer, but for twice the price of the most popular body (Maitreya). One other brand will seem cheaper, but is missing vital parts that must be bought as addons (hands and feet for example).

As long as you avoid mesh heads you won't look like a clone.

I do highly recommend Belleza, but not if you want to buy upwards of 20,000L in clothes every week... :)

- If you are a shopping junkie get Maitreya as it has the most support. But Belleza has enough support that if you just want to have 'your look' down it will be good. Unless you want to wear a lot of BDSM or body jewelry... the makers of that kind of stuff presently almost only support Maitreya (despite Maitreya having the curves of a boy or fashion model, while Belleza has the curves of an actual woman).

My review of Belleza:

https://catnapkitty.wordpress.com/2015/09/13/belleza-v3-mesh-body-review/

And you can go to the mesh body addicts blog to see some other reviews.

If you want a natural sag to your bosom the ONLY choices are Belleza and Lena Lush - but to get that sag with Lena Lush you will need a bosom size about 1.5 times as big as your head... To get it on Belleza, you need to use the Freya body and also dial up bosom size, but once you do, you can have a natural sag.

- By contrast with all of the other choices, including Slink's Hourglass (which is meant to be curvy), adding in sag will deform / distort the bosom unaturally - and adding size will do the same. Doing both with most of them will just get freaky.

 

 

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Oh my god, thanks for informing us, that you are only a real women, if you are shaped like some video vixen in a rap video...

Guess all the guys who like me must be gay then. :matte-motes-big-grin-squint:  (To speak about absolut realism: Most female avatars in SL would need to use the body fat slider a lot more, if they would like to recreate the real "them" who sits in front of the computer). The big ass, huge breasts and tiny-everything-else isn't really realistic, to be fair.

But I will probably never get your hate for Maitreya (which comes with hands and feet). Also the amount of money spend on clothes depends mostly on the person owning the body, not on the body itself.

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Syo Emerald wrote:

Oh my god, thanks for informing us, that you are only a real women, if you are shaped like some video vixen in a rap video...

Rap video? I didn't say that and try to put some clearly racial bias on this - you did. I mean seriously, what kind of comment is that?

I don't hate the Maitreya avatar, I find it subpar in quality. Even if you want that silly slim look - the avatar physics just respond poorly and it can't 'get out' of the perky look on the bosom.

I'm not a fan of the slim lack of curves look, sure. But if you are - Belleza Isis will do that better because it responds to the shape dials and physics better, and comes in a package that also includes 2 other body choices should your needs change.

 

But if you want to see my version of product hate, find and read my first review of Belleza. I panned that thing pretty hard, and was kind of 'oh really, is that all' on their first update. But update three sold me and I ended up buying copies for all my alts. Which is to say... don't confuse a highly critical eye with a hateful eye.

 

As for frustration - I have frustration with how vendors pick what bodies they support. Some rather unpopular bodies get more support than some rather popular ones. I realize reasons for these are not always in the vendor's control - but I will still rant about it. Especially when I see vendors drop support for a body they used to support, that is still polling quite well - because that choice is just hurting their own business as well as their customers.

And I guess your personal anger at me blunts your ability to see the tongue in cheek about my post - the 20,000L reference. A lot of stuff comes out for Maitreya. If one is a 'ooo, shiny stuff!' addict, you could go broke buying all that. :)

If you really want to be a budget saver... go for TMP. Nobody supports that thing... because they have such a hard system for vendors to join... and its one of the few bodies that also doesn't support Omega, so you won't even be tempted to buy applier based clothes. The body itself is pricey if you get a copy with all options unlocked... but once you have it, you won't be able to buy much else... :)

 

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The Belleza is one body I have not bought, I have fiddled with the sliders on the demo and never got a shape from the bodies I really liked and that felt like me. The cost and render weight put me off spending money on it. But it does look good on you Pussycat.

I also like the slink physique, it is an atheltic shape, and nice for having a low render weight.

The Mesh Project body and Maitreya have nice curves, the Mesh project is perhaps a bit too perky... but really the big down side for me on the mesh project body is that the clothing layers glitch at the top of the legs.

I think the Miatreya body is probably the most natural looking and versatile. It doesn't do the extremes of some of the other bodies, not as atheltic as the physique and not as curvy as Freya or Hourglass. But for most shapes it works well. Whilst its render weight is higher than the physique it is alot less than the Belleza bodies. I have boob physics working pretty well on it I haven't noticed the butt move except in a bad way with sliders maxed on the physics, but I haven't spent much time studying that lol.

I bought the Slink Hourglass recently, and the shape just looks a bit alien there are some weird unnaturalnesses to it like the nipple placement and the butt just doesn't look right to me. Not sure now why I bought it.

The Lena Lush body has maybe the most natural shape but the mesh is a bit blocky and it looks a bit dated now. But it is perhaps the most mature and natural looking body (apart from the cartoon nipples). A shame there isn't a lot of mesh clothes for it and it hasn't had an update to make it look smoother.

I like the demo of the Orange Nova, Nauha mesh body, it has a lot of interesting options, that will be the next body on my shopping list to play with. Not sure why the MeshBodyAddicts site is ignoring it. The default head does look a bit anime, but that can be replaced or just use the normal head and it takes Omega appliers. It is I think the option to go for for a flat chested look, but I need to buy it first and play with it some more before I can recommend it.

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Mesh Body Addicts is a bit selective.

I've been jostling them for a while about the Solarian. That is the flat out best fitmesh body in SL. Super light weight, low lag, comes with 3 genders in the base purchase, has real BVH motion on joints no other body has, looks amazing, is copy and mod, is super low price, gives you the blender files to mod it with the purchase, comes with a bunch of full perms fitmesh clothing, and has a very HUGE amount of fan made addon clothing and other products for BOTH male and female <- possibly better supported than even Maitreya.

Oh... and its a cat furry.

:P

But the Orange Nova I guess shows their selectivity is not limited to non-humans.

Now... I highlighted 'them' in red because we need to remember that that blog is actually one person blogging her interests. So its perfectly fair for her to make her own choices, even if the blog has become such a leading point for attention on mesh bodies.

 

 

Then again, have they reviewed fusion? That's a super modular body (but I find it has a horrible bosom issue if you go above or below a very narrow range on the sliders - the sides of the bosom will detatch from the body (you can literally see a gap that because the inside of a mesh is invisible, means you see open air through that gap), and if you go low, it squishes fast.

- THAT SAID... because of the modular nature they sell some 30-million different breast addons, and if you buy the right one you might not need to mess with any sliders. But most of them start at huge and then get bigger (my own avatar's bosom looks tiny by comparrison... I've demoed one fusion breast that was bigger than the avatar it attaches to. o.O).

What's interesting about this is that fusion body is almost as old as wowmeh. But it seems to have escaped 'press' by everybody despite getting many updates over the years.

 

When I try to use physics on Maitreya, I find the boobs go everywhere - slapping everything in front of me like lethal weapons. And if I try to dial things down, they just sort of stagger in slow motion or deform. And they jutt out with a strange shape underneath if I dial up size and/or boyancy (I personally do not want a perky look, which is the only look I seem to be able to get out of Maitreya - whereas with Belleza I can get perky or some sag).

Lena Lush... because it is mod you can actually reduce its lag causing factors by a lot. Likewise Lena Perky. But I agree on the nipples comment and the low level of support.

 

Belleza Freya is lower lag than Maitreya, but the other 2 bodies are more - however all 4 bodies are VERY CLOSE.

Render Weights and Scripts on some choices

(in all cases these are using only the hands/feet/body of that brand. No brand mixing, and only full copies, no demos):

Belleza Freya: 9388 and 384kb

Belleza Isis: 10478 and 384kb

Belleza Venus: 9642 and 384kb

Maitreya 3.5: 9398 and 448kb

Lena Lush (modded to remove layers): 12022 and 192kb

Lena Lush (un-modded): 60544 and 192kb

Slink Physique: 13892 and 848kb (but slink lets you remove all hands/feet scripts, after that: 256kb).

TMP: 11561 and 512kb

SalinA: 15826 and 768kb

[bANNED] Dea: 7782 and 128kb

Solarian:

Draw Weight:
Female: 6476 (5285 on plantigrade)
Male: 6220 (4836 on plantigrade)
Femboy: 6434 (5170 on plantigrade)

Script Usage:
Body: 48kb
Digitigrade Legs: 16kb

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:


Syo Emerald wrote:

Oh my god, thanks for informing us, that you are only a real women, if you are shaped like some video vixen in a rap video...

Rap video? I didn't say that and try to put some clearly racial bias on this - you did. I mean seriously, what kind of comment is that?

I don't hate the Maitreya avatar, I find it subpar in quality. Even if you want that silly slim look - the avatar physics just respond poorly and it can't 'get out' of the perky look on the bosom.

I'm not a fan of the slim lack of curves look, sure. But if you are - Belleza Isis will do that better because it responds to the shape dials and physics better, and comes in a package that also includes 2 other body choices should your needs change.

 

But if you want to see my version of product hate, find and read my first review of Belleza. I panned that thing pretty hard, and was kind of 'oh really, is that all' on their first update. But update three sold me and I ended up buying copies for all my alts. Which is to say... don't confuse a highly critical eye with a hateful eye.

 

As for frustration - I have frustration with how vendors pick what bodies they support. Some rather unpopular bodies get more support than some rather popular ones. I realize reasons for these are not always in the vendor's control - but I will still rant about it. Especially when I see vendors drop support for a body they used to support, that is still polling quite well - because that choice is just hurting their own business as well as their customers.

And I guess your personal anger at me blunts your ability to see the tongue in cheek about my post - the 20,000L reference. A lot of stuff comes out for Maitreya. If one is a 'ooo, shiny stuff!' addict, you could go broke buying all that.
:)

If you really want to be a budget saver... go for TMP. Nobody supports that thing... because they have such a hard system for vendors to join... and its one of the few bodies that also doesn't support Omega, so you won't even be tempted to buy applier based clothes. The body itself is pricey if you get a copy with all options unlocked... but once you have it, you won't be able to buy much else...
:)

 

This is not about a racial bias. Rap music exists all across the globe, with probably every nation having some artist who is into that typical rap cliché. And you know what I'm talking about.

And yes, I might have gotten pretty angry. Not because I have something against you as a person, but it really rubs me the wrong way, when people claim that a "real" women has to have certain features to a certain extent. Especially in the context of SL, where that "extent" is usually in the extreme. Just taking your forum picture as an example here: Those would be considered big breasts in RL...here in SL you are probably in good company with that size. And same goes for butts. I have a real struggle finding dresses (especially formal ones) that are not geared towards avatars with very wide hips and huge behinds...

But thats not the point. You may see your text as objective and rightfully critic, but I don't see it as that. Yes, it certainly had a lot of criticism to offer, but what made me angry were mainly your remarks on any bodytype that goes not for the bigger in the areas mentioned above. I can assure you, a woman with a nice little tush and breasts below a D cup does not look "silly", like a stick, a child or male. And those remarks came of as pretty hateful.

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Syo Emerald wrote:


Pussycat Catnap wrote:


Syo Emerald wrote:

Oh my god, thanks for informing us, that you are only a real women, if you are shaped like some video vixen in a rap video...

Rap video? I didn't say that and try to put some clearly racial bias on this - you did. I mean seriously, what kind of comment is that?

This is not about a racial bias. Rap music exists all across the globe, with probably every nation having some artist who is into that typical rap cliché. And you know what I'm talking about.

Actually no I don't. Rap music with the big butt big boobs stereotype... OK, I know exactly what you're talking about. I just think you're foolish trying to deny being a racist after putting all of those elements together like that.

My comment may have ben mean in tone, but your response to it was BOTH mean in tone and racist.

I've still got other things to say to everyone else in this thread though.

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Give me a day or two - but I've dug up an old freebie skin I used to sell (its too low quality to even give out as a freebie anymore)...

And I made an Omega applier out of it.

I'm going to use it to do side and front profiles of all the bosoms of all the mesh bodies I down, at dial settings of 30, 50, and 100.

I'll put that on flickr and then share a link here.

It all does come down to preference - and these pictures once done will be useful in getting a quick compare. Because the bosom is a very personal part of the body, that doesn't so much as have to look "a certain way", as it has to look right to the person wearing that avatar. We have to get a look that feels like "us". So in this regard yeah... what I prefer in Belleza is clearly NOT going to be what someone else prefers.

But it's going to take me a bit of time to get this mass of screenshots done across a half dozen alts.

Some bodies will distrot painfully at 30 or 100, some at both and only work in mid ranges. All 3 bellezas held up at 30, 50, and 100. But Belleza deforms horribly if you go much below 30. There is one brand I demo'd that could up its style all the way down to 0 (MBody maybe?) - showing some impressive mesh-building skills. But its not a body I purchased.

 

 

 

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Love Zhaoying wrote:

You got my attention with "cat furry" since I'm a years-long neko.  Could you please provide a link or specific search criteria to find the Solarian? Thanks!

Here's my review:

https://catnapkitty.wordpress.com/2015/09/14/review-the-solarian-fitmesh-feline-furry-avatar-from-blue-galaxy/

Are we allowed to link to MP here? If not, just search for "Solarian" on "that website people go to to buy stuff for SL that is owned by LLs." :)

I "rib" the owner of the mesh body addicts blog about Solarian regularly because her blog's title implies it covers all the fitmesh bodies - and this is possibly the most successful one in SL, and she's never covered it (it likely does NOT sell as well as Maitreyah, but it IS getting faster growing support, if not already more support). Of course I know why - her blog is really a human-avatar blog, not a fitmesh body addicts blog. There are actually at least 3 fitmesh furry avatars. Maybe more, but I know of 3. And all three are "technology wise" superior to every single human option on the market.

Except maybe Orange Nova... I didn't even know that one existed... even though one of the furry fitmeshes is Orange Nova's Kobold (technology on that beats any human body, but the look is extreme cartoon so its not likely to be something even most furry users get).

 

We are currently at the best time ever in SL history to be a furry... But a lot of people don't know it.

Check the Galaxian, Dark Spot Designs, and Orange Nova brands to see what I mean.

 

Now drifting off-topic:

Oh but... the Solarian uses some very hacked rigging tricks. As a result its next update is actually on hold until Bento allows the maker to 'unhack it' - it does things that are not supposed to be possible without Bento. BUT as a result, you will not be able to use its parts in a Neko... I tried... :{

- For that, I bought the Kenzart Cat Furry and hacked into its ears until I got them reshaped "just right" for my look and able to cover the human hair so I could wear any hair design I liked.

 

 

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Love Zhaoying wrote:

Thanks! I was happy to see that Solarian has lion mods.

Becuase the owner put out the blender files, and made everything copy/mod - the fan community went nuts, and you're seeing all kinds of mods for it.

I wish some human body makers would learn a lesson from that.

 

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Thanks for those figures PussyCat. When I mentioned render weight I was perhaps using the wrong term, what I was thinking of when I made my post was Chalice Yao's list of triangles and Vertices that make up the respective mesh bodies. I tried to post with a direct link to the table, but the post just vanished, so it would seem the forum software doesn't ike the link... but here is the information in abridged form for the triangles (The vertices follow the same pattern)

Kemono 26K

Physique 53K

Avatar 2.0 56K

The Mesh Project Free 57K

Lena Lush & Perky 65K

Maitreya Lara 108K

Eve Pulpy & Slim 134k & 135K respectively

The Mesh Project basic 193K

G Inc Perfect Body 910K

Beleza Isis & Freya 1766K

She adds as explanation:

EDIT:
If you want to verify the numbers: Develop -> Show Info -> Show Render Info, and then rightclick-select the body. Just note that the default viewer has a bug in the vertex counting, which I have fixed in mine. By default it only counts the vertexes in the last link. The triangles get properly added up in all viewers.

Hence why I have just included the triangles and because well I don't want to copy the whole table. If you want a link to the post I will send it to you in IM.

On a purely feel basis, these numbers correspond more for me on how mesh bodies I have appear to render. When I am sailing and doing lots of sim crossings, camming around, then the slink physique is better than Maitreya which is better than the mesh project. Also when I look at other peoples avatars in a group setting it is the Belleza ones that either never rezz or are slowest to do so.

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Those numbers make some sense to me also.

I would agree that Belleza is slow to load. Once loaded it is similar in lag. I think this is seen in the two different numbers we have and what I "THINK" is their reasoning.

Belleza has more "stuff". All the hand, feet, and breast options - repeated for skin, tattoo, underwear, and clothing layer.

Those breast options are the likely killer - and there is only one single clothing maker that supports any of them other than 'natural' - and that clothing maker doesn't support 'natural', but only 'perky', and that only recently for Freya (they long support Isis despite its lagging behing Freya in popularity: after all if you like Isis, why buy it when it looks a lot like Maitreya and Slink and Maitreya has more clothing support... well, I have a reason in the way physics works and the bosom shapes - but many don't agree with my preferences there).

...

So, um... anyway...

Back on point:

All those extra options cause Belleza to load slower. The first time you ever encounter Belleza it will be a near freezing moment. When I first came outin 'V3' and had not yet made it around the grid much - I remember wear times of a couple of minutes. But even now it takes a moment to load up.

In that time SL is deciding what to do with a bunch of junk, that actually gets "discarded" in a partial sense...

- and here comes my theory on why SL rates these all as similar in 'Render Cost'.

All the unused parts of Belleza are flipped to 'alpha mask' which SL factors as near 0 cost. I think most bodies do this - the few that don't have unusually high avatar render costs, AND wil suffer weird alpha glitches around things like hair and windows (and early version of Maitreya had that problem, and I think Eve or Lena as well...

(which reminds me that I have Eve also, on an alt somewhere... I need to do some more screenshots now...).

So once they're all in SL and loaded up - they end up equivalent. Of course this does mean Belleza is harder on systems at load in... which could be a notable downside for some.

- I've been vocal on saying they need to do what SalinA did, and make all the "applier layers" things you wear, that are not always on like all bodies but SalinA do. There is no reason for a body to come with a tattoo layer, or a clothing layer, or an underwear layer. AT ALL. It should be something you wear as another attachment - so that if you're not using it, you are not using it.

(It would also make outfit organizing a lot easier if you could just save copies of your clothing layer to different outfit folders, like you can with SalinA).

That all said - I have tried the test mentioned above, and I do not see where to find the triangle counts in the information it displays. I'm sure its there, I just need somebody to make a screenshot with an arrow pointing to it for me, because when I do that test I get a huge wall of LOT of crazy numbers and I don't know which one to be looking at... :)

 

A caveat to a lot of my recent posts that talk about whether or not something is laggy:

I've recently discovered that a massive lag-monster I've been trying to slay for the past year and a half that was crashing me anytime I was around more than a few other people... was in fact a stability issue with the LL Viewers on my Macs, a 2011 iMac and a 2013 MacBook Pro. Switching to a TPV, I've discovered that the source of my frequent crashes was NOT the lag-beast...
- But it led me down a crazy chase to slay an invisible dragon by trying to learn about every source of client-side lag I could.

While having a high avatar cost might not be a reason for crashes (though it IS a reason if you're stuck on a LL Viewer on a Mac), it might still be a factor in slowing down one's SL experience.
- But it looks like "most" of the mesh bodies are pretty similar here. The real things that drive up "avatar cost" a LOT are transparent textures (alpha blend), scripts that cycle that kind of texture, flexi items that cause that kind of texture to move arond a lot over, through, etc other transparent textures, and sculpties. Sculpties are always bad. Oh and bad mesh - it exists. It just isn't in any of the major mesh body brands (it IS in an offbrand or two).

 

So if somebody is reading this thread and hasn't yet been scared off from buying a mesh body - don't worry about lag as a reason to avoid it. You will lag people and yourself more by wearing a single 2007 flexi dress that is semi-transparent (the once-popular "silks" look) than you would wearing BOTH Maitreya and Belleza at the same time... :)

 

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