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Charlotte Bartlett

"Speedy new pay outs"

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

With luck the 4 days may decrease as you complete more Cashouts. Cross your fingers and keep us posted. It will be interesting to see how "intention" matches up with "reality".

It should have nothing to do with luck or crossing your fingers etc. Until they can give everyone the faster credit processing they should not be charging everyone the higher fees. The whole thing is just disgusting.

Those people who don't meet 'the better we know you' criteria shouldn't have to pay the increase in fees. Charging for a service that you may or may not get. WTF is that about?

I haven't tested the system yet. I would expect them to know me, as they have all my identity and info and I've been cashing out since 2011. But at the same time I'm not only worried for myself, I care about the injustice to the 25% or more who may never get the benefits, but are paying for it.

They really should have two options - as it was or faster pay out. But they won't, because they know that too many people would choose to have it as it was.

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Rya Nitely wrote:


Darrius Gothly wrote:

With luck the 4 days may decrease as you complete more Cashouts. Cross your fingers and keep us posted. It will be interesting to see how "intention" matches up with "reality".

It should have nothing to do with luck or crossing your fingers etc. Until they can give everyone the faster credit processing they should not be charging everyone the higher fees. The whole thing is just disgusting.

Those people who don't meet 
'the better we know you'
criteria shouldn't have to pay the increase in fees. Charging for a service that you may or may not get. WTF is that about?

I haven't tested the system yet. I would expect them to know me, as they have all my identity and info and I've been cashing out since 2011. But at the same time I'm not only worried for myself, I care about the injustice to the 25% or more who may never get the benefits, but are paying for it.

They really should have two options - as it was or faster pay out. But they won't, because they know that too many people would choose to have it as it was.

QFT.

I've been cashing out since 2009. They have every bit of my information.  I still had to file a support ticket to get my most recent cash out in 4.5 days (longer than it has been taking since before this change).

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(Beware of flying pigs .. I'm kind of taking LL's side on this .. kind of .. )

Speaking from a purely technical data-integrity perspective, it makes sense that the Third-Party service Linden Lab has chosen would limit their "Trust Database" to only their own self-collected information. By restricting their decisions to only those transactions they have processed, they can guarantee the veracity of the data and the outcome of their algorithms. To accept transaction data from outside sources would be to forfeit the 100% accuracy required to represent themselves as being accurate and reliable.

Now, with that said, I do agree that there should be some sort of option available. Even better would be a "pay for performance" option wherein you get charged the new fees if they can get the money to your PayPal account within 1-2 business days. Anything more than that would revert to the old fee structure since .. as has been rightly pointed out .. no benefit was had and thus no extra charges should be levied.

After all, FedEx, UPS and other "overnight" delivery services will either credit back the full charge or at least discount it to basic rates if they fail to meet the promised delivery time. It's a basic tenet of business: If you fail to provide good service, you don't get paid.

But then again, when has Linden Lab ever held themselves to that standard?

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

(Beware of flying pigs .. I'm kind of taking LL's side on this .. kind of .. )

Speaking from a purely technical data-integrity perspective, it makes sense that the Third-Party service Linden Lab has chosen would limit their "Trust Database" to only their own self-collected information. By restricting their decisions to only those transactions they have processed, they can guarantee the veracity of the data and the outcome of their algorithms. To accept transaction data from outside sources would be to forfeit the 100% accuracy required to represent themselves as being accurate and reliable.

 

So, what you're saying is if they are successful in doing that ^, only then should they charge the fee. Move along folks, no flying pigs here. :matte-motes-wink-tongue:

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Charlotte Bartlett wrote:

So now we are seeing speedier payouts...

I noticed the Lindex on limit sells is slowly taking a nose dive - even selling at 251 is hard pushing us nearer to 253?

This is very different to earlier months as we transitioned out of 248 to 249.    Pennies on the dollar but with larger cash out / across all merchants it's not a small amount of cash.    Purposeful devaluation or just reflective  of specific activities over the past few months (e.g. people cashing out for the sim discounts etc to USD?)...

Yeah what's up with that? It's been 248 for most of the time I've been exchanging L$ and then a L$1 inflation last winter, now suddenly up to 251 this month alone :/

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Even 251 is stalling now - e.g. 4 hours to get a sale through.

I suspect we are heading more into 253 if this trend continues as it has for this month.

I wondered if anybody had theories on what is leading to this?  I was thinking of a few random ones....

(a) purposeful devaluation to reduce cash out amounts of creators/merchants.  Another creator mentioned a comment made from Ebbe relating to income per designer was high (assume this means the ones cashing out / not using their income for tier and inworld spending etc) and customers were paying too much for land, and he wants to balance that.  Linked?

(b) just random and linked to the fact there are a lot of cash outs to take the discounted sim rates (so we'll see it improve back to the 249 rate over the coming months)

(d) Other - they have somebody really working financials so are improving the profitbiilty of SL (this I don't mind at all if transparent for us all) e.g. step one (a) Land step two (b) make Linden Dollars cheaper etc - it this helps increase consumers it's a good thing.  Giving them a better base to entice users to also use Sansar etc / keep tier stable on SL.

I am just musing this as it's an interesting change in behaviour and only times I have seen this level of movement, it has been tied to very specific events in SL history.

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Well, dang it. I'll have to cancel my 249L sell order then, which has been waiting a few days to fill now, long enough that I almost forgot I had it.

Just 3 weeks ago a 249 got filled almost instantly, so something really is going on here.

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I had to cancel my 249L sell order on May 12 which was sitting there since April 26 and never filled... So, on May 12 i put the new 250L order... Today i went to check how it's doing and see that .... 254L is the new 249L!!!!!!!! In a space of just one week it went from 250 to 254?!?! And nobody seems to care? Am i the only one feeling that the skies are falling? Honestly, i'm starting to get really panicky now. First the insane popularity of mesh bodies have considerably decimated my sales, but fine, i can adapt and i started creating for mesh bodies instead... Then the payout fees went from 1$ right to 15$ per transation... I have been around forever, my business started back in 2007, and last month's sales hit the absolute low - lower than they were in my first year!! Now there is this strange development on Lindex that skyrocketed the linden $ from 248 to 254 in a matter of just 1 month... What is going on? I'm afraid i need to seriously start considering other grids, or creating for Poser, or change of career altogether because the way things stand with SL now i don't see any even tiniest positive prospect in the nearest future... It's all bad upon worse upon even worse, like they are determined to drive us out of here... I am having hard time to find reasons to stay anymore... :matte-motes-crying: :matte-motes-crying:

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every 5 increase of exchange ...250/100 - 255/100- 260/100 is  <2 %

if that's a reason to go to another grid... do so..feel free

metropolis had 5 people online tonight... many different OS worlds won't do better... not sure the 2% is really the best reason to go there...

 

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and since my last message it apparently already moved to 255. In a matter of a couple of hours. Where is it going to end...

It had stayed 247 for many years, at least since LL eliminated third party lindens sell, which is when i started to (or, was forced to) use Lindex. Then some time last year (i think it was in the end of summer/early autumn) it moved to 248. Until about a month ago. And then it went from 248 to 255 in just about a month. Why? How is this normal and not worrying?

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I wonder about amount of Buy orders. It is way less than Sell orders. I wonders what is going on. I explored http://gridsurvey.com/lindex.php?page=1 and actually did  not find there drastical changes of Total transactions or Total volume. I wonder what happens. Looks like players get lot of money to sell but from where? If it is creators, if they sell good - then must be demand for lindens from buyers. Same with landlords. Maybe is it some crap who sells fake lindens? That is my crazy idea :)

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Elvina Ewing wrote:

Today i went to check how it's doing and see that .... 254L is the new 249L!!!!!!!! In a space of just one week it went from 250 to 254?!?! And nobody seems to care? 

There are others who care. Read this thread

https://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/LindeX-at-251/td-p/3024902

 

Edit: The only people who don't care are the ones who aren't affected by it.

But we also should remember that it is making L$ cheaper for our customers, and that may be a good thing.

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I won't even comment on how alarming the 19,533,910 L$ that are selling at the price of 257 L$/USD (!!!!) can be. Or how there are L$ sold even at 259L$/USD
I know there were given many explanations but not an official one and this is what disappoints me. When you are a company that respects itself, when you see panic on the content creator base, you make a statement to calm everyone down. Like when a company is closing and they say "no employees will get fired" even though they will.

My only explanation is that SL will soon shut down permanently. With the release of SL2 which is coming they want to get rid of every little Linden they have which will be useless when SL2 gets announced (I don't know who "they" are, maybe big merchants with connections to LL, maybe LL itself)

Now in order to return to the original topic: I have waited a bit before requesting a process credit (I am trying to lower that 1,5% fee as much as I can) so as you can imagine I was at best annoyed, not to say furious, when I saw that it took 4 business days for my money to appear on my skrill account!!!
I opened the process credit request at Wednesday morning (local time) and normally I would see the money on my skrill account Wednesday evening (next's week) or Thursday morning. Now by paying 14USD more I saved a WHOLE FREAKING DAY and received them on Tuesday! I don't know about you but for me that was like a very big "F@#$ YOU SUCKER" on my face from LL. 

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don't ever read something usefull... keep telling SL 2 is comming.. dream on, there is NO SL2 , and there will be NO SL2

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Charlotte Bartlett wrote:

 

I wondered if anybody had theories on what is leading to this?  I was thinking of a few random ones....

(a) purposeful devaluation to reduce cash out amounts of creators/merchants.  Another creator mentioned a comment made from Ebbe relating to income per designer was high (assume this means the ones cashing out / not using their income for tier and inworld spending etc) and customers were paying too much for land, and he wants to balance that.  Linked?

 

I'm starting to lean towards this theory. He did seem impressed when he spoke about how much people were cashing out ($US60 million a year). He did say LL needed to get its hands on a bigger slice of the GDP. These recent changes have all had the effect of decreasing the amount of money leaving SL. 

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Well i do think itis more easy just to limit cashing out amounts per person than to crash linden dollar. Second, LL has income from 1) selling lindens to dollars 2) transfering usd to Paypal and what they will have if lindens will stay in game? They wont work for them then (unless using them for marketplace). And really... I cant even transfer ld into usd now for decent price to pay land... So wtf? Looking at amount of orders to buy lindens is obvious we have very low demand for lindens, thats why we cant sell same amounts as before. But what is reason of low demand? Technical problems or people dontvwant to buy lindens anymore or they dont use lindex to buy lindens?

 

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Iren Tinkel wrote:

<snip> ...  But what is reason of low demand? Technical problems or people dontvwant to buy lindens anymore or they dont use lindex to buy lindens? 

The change seen in the LindeX has been much more rapid than can be explained by changes in customer behavior or attitude. We are seeing large blocks of Linden Dollars placed for sale in such a way that legitimate sellers must keep inching up the L$ per US$ price just to complete the sale within a decent time.

Those that have some patience have always been able to place their L$ for sale at the same price as the "Block" current at that time. In other words, if there was a giant Block of L$ for sale at L$249/US$ then patient sellers could Limit Sell at that price. That is still true today, it hasn't really changed.

What has changed though is the price point of that Block. From L$249 just a few weeks ago to L$257 at this moment. I simply will not believe the Block is the result of Customer Limit Sell orders; the amount is just too high to support that theory.

Right this instant there are L$19,702,002 for sale at L$257/US$. That amounts to more than $76,660.00! What Merchant in SL has that sort of money tied up in "worthless game coupons"? The blocks at L$251/US$ (L$83,345,025) and L$250/US$ (L$125,769,708) are even more suspicious. They amount to over $835,000.00! That's an amount completely unthinkable for even a good sized pool of Merchants to put on hold.

Remember ... those amounts placed for sale are essentially "sunk" funds. With the market price at L$257/US$, any L$ placed for sale at a lower price are .. effectively .. out of circulation and useless to the owner of those Sales Orders. Do you know anyone in SL that is willing to let even $1000.00 sit idle for weeks and weeks, let alone $10,000.00 or even $100,000.00?!?

This fact alone convinces me that the real "Market Driver" of the drastic changes in the Exchange Rate is Linden Lab itself. Adding in their obvious need for more capital, their increased expenses in regards Project Sansar, and the ever-present pressure from the BoD and Investors to suck more out of SL .. I believe strongly that we are seeing yet another example of the Second Life customer being used as an unwitting and unwilling blood bank.

The real victims though are the stable, long-term business people that have spent years building and maintaining real life enterprises that stand on the Second Life platform. Their sheer momentum forces them to absorb the losses and expenses created by the blatant manipulation of Linden Lab.

And this comes at a time when Linden Lab is trying to convince "Creators" that their NEXT venture .. Project Sansar .. will be ever-so friendly and easy to use to create additional income. (yeah ... riiiiiight!)

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Darrius Gothly wrote:


This fact alone convinces me that the real "Market Driver" of the drastic changes in the Exchange Rate is Linden Lab itself. Adding in their obvious need for more capital, their increased expenses in regards Project Sansar, and the ever-present pressure from the BoD and Investors to suck more out of SL .. I believe strongly that we are seeing yet another example of the Second Life customer being used as an unwitting and unwilling blood bank.

 

YES ^ and to all the rest of your post.

and we now  have 260. I wonder what their target is.

 

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The quickest method of ekeing more money from the LindeX is to bump the average sell price gently upward. This depends on the lag time between when those Linden Dollars were purchased and when they are sold. By keeping the price slowly inching up, they benefit from the lag time and thus retain more US Dollars.

This is a game roughly equivalent to the game banks play with the "Float". By accepting depostis instantly but delaying withdrawals for a few days, they gain the benefits of holding more money at any one time. With the LindeX, by pushing up the price, LL effectively gets to hold on to a larger chunk of money for a longer period of time.

BUT ... it's a "dog chasing tail" game when it comes to the LindeX. As new L$ are purchased at the higher exchange rate, the advantages of the lag trail off and disappear. Thus they have to bump the average sell price a little bit more to recoup that extra cash.

It worries me greatly that they've landed on manipulating the LindeX as a means of sucking more income from Second Life. Because it is a dynamic market and any changes eventually settle out, they are in effect messing with a finely balanced system .. knocking it way off kilter .. all for the sake of a tiny bit more cash.

That's akin to a company selling off their inventory, inventory needed to build new product for sale, just to cover a short-term shortfall. When you start seeing that sort of behavior, it's time to head for the door.

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Rya Nitely wrote:


Darrius Gothly wrote:


This fact alone convinces me that the real "Market Driver" of the drastic changes in the Exchange Rate is Linden Lab itself. Adding in their obvious need for more capital, their increased expenses in regards Project Sansar, and the ever-present pressure from the BoD and Investors to suck more out of SL .. I believe strongly that we are seeing yet another example of the Second Life customer being used as an unwitting and unwilling blood bank.

 

YES ^ and to all the rest of your post.

and we now  have 260. I wonder what their target is.

 

Add my yes. At 264 now.

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