Idea for Sansar ~ Re-launch the Public Works Department + MENTORSHIP

[jordan Cannoli]

As of recently, I've been following the few and far between information released about Sansar, and it sounds promising. Ebbe seems like he has a clear vision of the platform he wants to create, and I feel like he's dedicated to the platform.

 

I've been playing Second Life since early 2005, and there is something I really miss about the platform. Between 2005-2006, the playerbase was really involved in the mainland, the sandboxes were social hubs, and people regularly traveled across the mainland sims in vehicles. It felt more like a community of creators than the SL of today, which is mostly a consumer platform with few new developments.

 

I'd really like to see LL relaunch the "Linden Department of Public Works" or the Mole Program, a initiative in which creators build on public land and the land is open to the public.  The public land can be explored, used as a communication hub, charity events, vehicle regions, etc

Another Suggestion:

~ Launch a Mentorship program

The bounce rate on SL (and most F2P games) is pretty bad, most players don't log back in after they first come inworld. I've seen a few of my friends try and figure out SL over the years and was surprised at how confusing they found it. A mentorship program could be really beneficial to the community and the company. It would lead to a drastically lower bounce rate and more conversation of players -> customers.

Truthfully, this should be incentivized to really motivate people. Something like this:

* A mentorship request is sent like a friend request, you can have 1 mentor, and are free to drop your mentor if your times don't match up or they are unresponsive/unhelpful

* The mentee has the option to commend the mentor after a period of time (1 week?), a certain amount of commendations would earn the mentor incentives (reduced tier, Ingame currency)

* Or something like if the mentee completes the mentorship and buys L$, the mentor gets a small % once.

Mentorship should be by application, and those that pass should be granted access to the equivilent of the tutorial islands of SL.

 

[Alwin Alcott]

as far things are clear already i understood there will be no land on Sansar as we know it in SL, so public works would be a bit jobless in Sansar ...

[jordan Cannoli]

I got that too, but there still will be large spaces/experiences. I don't see LL not having some way to connect large areas or create places for vehicles etc

[Perrie Juran]

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jordan Cannoli wrote:

I got that too, but there still will be large spaces/experiences. I don't see LL not having some way to connect large areas or create places for vehicles etc

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Q. Will there be something like Second Life’s Mainland in Project Sansar? Will there be a concept of contiguous land where separate land plots can be joined together to form vast spaces similar to mainland on Second Life? This will be important for vehicle-based environments.

     A. We’d like to give creators the ability to both create very large experiences and interconnect their creations with others’, and it’s likely that large public ‘hubs’ around themes, interests, and communities will arise. Especially early on, there will be some public shared spaces created by Linden Lab where creators can gather, but we’re currently not planning to create something directly parallel to SL’s Mainland.

https://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Ask-the-CEO/m-p/2948995

It sounded to many of us that LL sounded surprised that we would want a Mainland while on the other hand we were surprised they thought it wasn't needed.  There are a lot of comments on that topic in that thread.  I didn't reread through it all but I believe the last thing they said on the topic was to the effect of, "We need to look at this deeper."

[Amethyst Jetaime]

From what I read, LL is providing the platform and it is up to creators to create the 'experiences'.  They may have one area that you initially log into as a new resident, but that's it.  You won't be able to travel from one experience to another either, unless those creators choose to allow that.  Hopefully though they will have some type of 'tp' system so you won't have to log out and back in to a different experience.

Land as we know it is not going to be part of Sansar unless a creator decides to create that 'experience'. 

 

[Aethelwine]

As others have pointed out for Sansar there won't be much for the moles to do.

The idea is however good and timely for Sansara and the other mainland continents, as they need some loving too, especially with the grandfathered tier offer for private estates.

[Qie Niangao]

I'd be very surprised if there aren't already Moles (or something in that genus) creating showcase content for Sansar, probably as part of some early on-boarding experience if nothing else.

On the other hand, they've been pretty explicit that Sansar will not support anything like what we'd recognize as "region crossing". Whatever are called the geographic boundaries of experiences, moving across them will be portal-like, apparently without the ability to view the other side of the portal without passing through it. A while back, Ebbe said that a kilometer or two would be the maximum dimensions of an (instance of an) experience in Sansar. So nobody will be able to build Sansar experiences approaching continent-scale geographically contiguity -- the technology won't support it.

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

I'd be very surprised if there aren't already Moles (or something in that genus) creating showcase content for Sansar, probably as part of some early on-boarding experience if nothing else.

On the other hand, they've been pretty explicit that Sansar will not support anything like what we'd recognize as "region crossing". Whatever are called the geographic boundaries of experiences, moving across them will be portal-like, apparently without the ability to view the other side of the portal without passing through it. A while back, Ebbe said that a kilometer or two would be the maximum dimensions of an (instance of an) experience in Sansar. So nobody will be able to build Sansar experiences approaching continent-scale geographically contiguity -- the technology won't support it.

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The number I've always seen is 4 KM on a side. That would mean that, for instance, something similar to Heterocetera could be built as a square of four regions if there were ridges along the region borders with tunnels for the railways. Going from one region to the next wouldn't be a major problem if vehicles were considered extensions of the avatar instead of in-world objects that are "sat" upon.

https://modemworld.me/lab-chat-2-ebbe-altberg-additional-questions/#aviation

[Qie Niangao]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

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Qie Niangao wrote: [stuff]

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The number I've always seen is 4 KM on a side. That would mean that, for instance, something similar to Heterocetera could be built as a square of four regions if there were ridges along the region borders with tunnels for the railways. Going from one region to the next wouldn't be a major problem if vehicles were considered extensions of the avatar instead of in-world objects that are "sat" upon.

https://modemworld.me/lab-chat-2-ebbe-altberg-additional-questions/#aviation

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Ah, thanks, I stand corrected. It was exactly that coy "or twice that" exchange at Lab Chat I was thinking of, but misremembering it as 2 km instead of 4.

I'm still not seeing much prospect of a compelling illusion of large-scale contiguous land masses if a scene can't include dynamic state from the other side of a border. Less important might be the ability of objects to span those borders, but then they don't really do that in SL either (not to the physics engine anyway).

[emilia Avindar]

Thanks for the link to Ebbe's remarks. This helps me to relax and enjoy my land legs in SL because the Sansar concept makes my head spin.

Sansar will be "experience" married to whatever the avatar is--an account with capabilities, capacity, and tools to interact in the experience which is fleshed out in 3D according to the limits of the technology.

Maybe some experience will be granted at entry, and others will be acquired by payment, or points, who knows. Maybe there will be fly fishing or golfing or dancing. Whether that dancing will allow pairing up with someone else to "experience" a Dancing With the Stars routine is....probably the key to wild success of Sansar. It will mean merging two experiences into one and whether or not to allow for personalization. For example, how much gear will we ultimately wear? If I wear special slippers will I feel my dance partner step on my toes? *smiles*

However, there are two things that keep me coming back to Second Life. First of all, shopping--finding those perfect details (objects) to decorate a scene. After all, what are we building but electronic dioramas. And the other thing is the Land, the place that absorbs the time and creates memory and virtual experience that looks just like real places and real time spent when you look back a couple of years later.

Recently, I've taken the walk down memory lane to visit my old builds from memory. The are just as fresh and vivid as anyplace I've been in "reality." And is it any wonder? After all, the time spent and the "experience" lacked only smell and touch. The smell was generally an overheated laptop and the touch was as close as my fingers on the touchpad while flying a Corsair.

Sansar may very well change the world, eventually. Not just the virtual worlds, least of all the virtual worlds. Until and unless the chain chain chain of experience keys gives way to ownership of space for landlubbers like me, I will be staking my claim right here, on good ole Mainland.

And when I find the perfect lamp, it's warm glow will illuminate a reality that reads like a visual poem in the space I create. Sansar may let me sail the stars but Second Life lets me relax and listen to music.

Just my thoughts, but I miss the Moles too! Are there actually no moles now?? I've been gone awhile, and hadn't heard of this, although I knew Public Works was sidelined. Without moles, the Mainland could lose it's sense of humor!

 

 

[Rufferta]

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jordan Cannoli wrote:

As of recently, I've been following the few and far between information released about Sansar, and it sounds promising. Ebbe seems like he has a clear vision of the platform he wants to create, and I feel like he's dedicated to the platform.

 

I've been playing Second Life since early 2005, and there is something I really miss about the platform. Between 2005-2006, the playerbase was really involved in the mainland, the sandboxes were social hubs, and people regularly traveled across the mainland sims in vehicles. It felt more like a community of creators than the SL of today, which is mostly a consumer platform with few new developments.

 

I'd really like to see LL relaunch the "

Linden Department of Public Works

" or the Mole Program, a initiative in which creators build on public land and the land is open to the public.  The public land can be explored, used as a communication hub, charity events, vehicle regions, etc

 

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Reply:  There are still hundreds of mole-created artifacts around, but they don't get too much publicity. I especially like the roads that go across some of the continents, and some of the mini-quests that are scattered about.

Part of Second Life's "sense of place" comes from a feeling of shared content  - I don't see Project Sansar as providing that.

Also, I understand that Project Sansar is not initially going to support those of us who use Macs, which I guess means I will be staying in Second Life for a while.

 

 

 

 

 

[Prokofy Neva]

That idea won't work because the Lindens do not want a Mainland or any kind of heavy input into infrastructure in Project Sansar. They want to have developers (third-party ones) make the world sim by sim, and us to be entertained by it but not edit it. So the public works concept is a no-go due to its ideology and structure.

I have a better idea. Re-launch the Moles in the existing Mainland of the existing old Sansar (as they once called their first set of Mainland sims). Linden content is highly valued. The Moles actually do seem to still function to make/fix roads but for the most part, they don't do brand-new things like Nautilus. I think they should. Lots of them, to dilute the huge ridiculous prices for them. 

As for Mentors, no, absolutely not. Any system that privileges a group of residents over their fellow residents, with special access to newbies or powers that the rest of us do not have ALWAYS gets abused. In a matter of minutes these mentors turn into self-dealing monsters that take newbies to their own stores or pitch to their friends. They also become arrogant and abusive and nobody reins them in.

Mentors are not needed. Newbies are not uneducated poor people from the third world, for the most part. They are highly--paid Silicon Valley programmers just not used to the app or retired postal workers in Ohio that at least have a college degree and can figure it out with some good will.

Mentoring should happen by residential communities, clubs, games, art galleries, whatever sort of venue there is. New people should go to an area/theme/community of interest, and there learn the basics they need *for that activity or theme*.

No newbie needs to learn to build or script to go to a club. He needs to learn only how to shop or socialize. 

A newbie who WANTS land might need to learn about land and groups and such. But most don't buy land.

"Newbie helping" is a Silicon Valley software concept that grows out of their philosophy of consumers and pro-sumers. But it's not a good match.

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Prokofy Neva wrote:

 

I have a better idea.

Re-launch the Moles

in the existing Mainland of the existing old Sansar (as they once called their first set of Mainland sims). Linden content is highly valued. The Moles actually do seem to still function to make/fix roads but for the most part, they don't do brand-new things like Nautilus. I think they should. Lots of them, to dilute the huge ridiculous prices for them. 

As for Mentors, no, absolutely not.

Any system that privileges a group of residents over their fellow residents, with special access to newbies or powers that the rest of us do not have ALWAYS gets abused

. In a matter of minutes these mentors turn into self-dealing monsters that take newbies to their own stores or pitch to their friends. They also become arrogant and abusive and nobody reins them in.

 

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"Moles" were and are a group of residents of Second Life that Linden Lab gives "powers that the rest of us do not have" to build on Linden Lab-owned land, and they are paid to do so.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Department_of_Public_Works

[Kayle Matzerath]

There is way more than just artifacts around

The Moles made the Portal Park, the Cornfield (new one) , Winter Wonderland, the Halloween Tour, PaleoQuest, Linden Realms, Learning and Social Island and pretty much all the Premium Gifts.

[ChinRey]

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Kayle Matzerath wrote:

The Moles made the Portal Park, the Cornfield (new one) , Winter Wonderland, the Halloween Tour, PaleoQuest, Linden Realms, Learning and Social Island and pretty much all the Premium Gifts.

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An Pyri Peaks, don't forget Pyri Peaks!!!

And Rizal

And the coastal waterways

And...

 

The list goes on and on and on.

 

Short story for those who don't know already:

The Moles did so much great work in their early years I doubt anybody has a full overview. Then they got hit bad by a series of ... incidents ... of course and went down fast and far. But eventually they made a recovery Lazarus would have been proud of and their back now!

[Rufferta]

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Kayle Matzerath wrote:

There is way more than just artifacts around

The Moles made the Portal Park, the Cornfield (new one) , Winter Wonderland, the Halloween Tour, PaleoQuest, Linden Realms, Learning and Social Island and pretty much all the Premium Gifts.

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Quite right - I still continue to discover large and small builds created by the moles - yesterday I found "Harry's Island" where the space pigs crashed It is actually in Mohr, not Bay of Space Pigs. If you want to visit, it is

at Mohrr (173, 208, 25) -There's also a mud hole.... When I posted that information under "Destinations" someone sent info on yet another site!

I recently bought a 1024 near MoleMart and hope to eventually turn it into a park honoring moles (and honorary moles) and providing landmarks to their builds.

If anyone has a favorite mole build please notecard me with the slurl.

Oh, and I also need an heroic statue of a mole for the park - something like the above poster used as propaganda to recruit moles...

 

 

I'd also like to add that the best 'mentoring' I've gotten in Second Life has been advice given to this and other alts over the years on these very forums. Thank you.

[BlueTrianon]

The fastest way to get those landmarks might be to go to the moles' island.  There's a building there with pictures that direct you out to their major builds and experiences.

Edit:

Here's a link to the Destination Guide entry:  http://secondlife.com/destination/meauxle-bureaux?lang=en-US