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User owned experienced forced on us by Linden Lab? WTF?


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Okay, so I use Firestorm Viewer, guess I should've expected a power abuse when i saw an experience I couldn't remove owned by Firestorm. But. after asking them they said LL forced it on me.

So I'd like to know, why, and why do I get no say in the matter?

I'm happy to have LL run experienced forced on, but I'm sorry, the firestorm group is founded from the old 'emerald viewer' and in that regard makes me nervous. Only takes one bad egg and you get a rough deal. So why am I not permitted to remove this experience?

Found out it was there unexpectedly too, not like there was an announcement about it.  Idly exploring sci con, stuff randomly attaches to me without warning..

Ugh, lets leave user choice IN the decision making process. For those with a similar problem with this policy, abuse report it til LL gets the hint?

(Yes, I know, the same group I'm bitching about with Emerald roots is making the viewer, but at least the codes getting vetted by more than one person, this experience BS probably isn't)

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Would you care to show us some screen shots?

I just checked (I use Firestorm) and have not had any experiences forced on me.  In fact I had none listed at all.  But I've never been anywhere in SL that they were being used.

Really curious here.

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Hi SosiaalinenKokeilu,

So the Firestorm experience is a land scope experience which is set on only in the Firestorm Community Gateway regions. This is because new residents need to have accepted the experience in order to exit the Orientation Island, otherwise they get stuck there, log off and never come back into Second Life.

Once we have the new RegAPI from LL new sign ups will automatically have their experience enabled as well, so as to make their first time experience seamless.

The Firestorm experience is being used two ways. First, and most used to help residents get from place to place on the region, which is llTeleportAgent. We use this to make it easier for them to teleport around the regions as well as teleport out to other helpful gateways. Exp Key is great for this since we don't have to confuse new residents with landmarks and make them have to dig through inventory to find them.

The second place we use the experience is to attach a parachute to their avatars if they use the Sky Lift for skydiving, and to attach the CrowleyCorp Golf hud so residents can play golf.

Probably you are not aware of how experience keys work and what their limitations are, but I'll let you do your own research on that since you have clearly already made up your mind that we are evil people. So I'll just close with this final statement.

The Firestorm experience only works over Firestorm land and once you leave the Firestorm regions you can revoke the Firestorm Experience without any trouble. Finally, I would suggest that if you fear we will harm you in some way, that the best thing for you do do is not return to our gateway regions.

Thanks for your concerns and complaints.

Have a wonderful day!

Jessica Lyon
Project Manager
The Phoenix Firestorm Project, Inc.

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My mistake! Apparently it cannot be revoked once enabled. However.. again... the experience will only work over Firestorm Land so avoid our land and it will never impact you.

Once we have the new RegAPI LL will disable the forced Land Scope Experience. It's temporary and it's for the sake of new residents joining SL.

 

Also.. really?.. Honestly?

Do you think after all these years with a clean exemplary record, that we would use experience keys to abuse you? We are trying to do a good thing here with the Gateway, we are trying to improve Second Life and that's all we've ever tried to do and done in our nearly 6 years. In 6 years not one person on my team of over 100 people, have earned a ban or suspension. And you think we're going to abuse you with an experience key... sigh...

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Jessica Lyon wrote:

Hi SosiaalinenKokeilu,

So the Firestorm experience is a land scope experience which is set on only in the Firestorm Community Gateway regions. This is because new residents need to have accepted the experience in order to exit the Orientation Island, otherwise they get stuck there, log off and never come back into Second Life.

</snip>


Curious here. Are there other experiences that are being required to accept?

 

(And I agree, the OP did sound a little 'trollish').

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We only have and use the one experience key, and only for the two things described. We will however soon also use it to help new resi's wear a 'housecoat' when they're naked and are having problems getting dressed. So that will work by temp attaching a stylish housecoat and then we can offer them a teleport to one of our private change rooms where they will then be further aided by one of our gateway helpers or mentors.

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Jessica Lyon wrote:

We only have and use the one experience key, and only for the two things described. We will however soon also use it to help new resi's wear a 'housecoat' when they're naked and are having problems getting dressed. So that will work by temp attaching a stylish housecoat and then we can offer them a teleport to one of our private change rooms where they will then be further aided by one of our gateway helpers or mentors.

You're taking all the fun out of things!  ;)

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Perrie Juran wrote:


Jessica Lyon wrote:

We only have and use the one experience key, and only for the two things described. We will however soon also use it to help new resi's wear a 'housecoat' when they're naked and are having problems getting dressed. So that will work by temp attaching a stylish housecoat and then we can offer them a teleport to one of our private change rooms where they will then be further aided by one of our gateway helpers or mentors.

You're taking all the fun out of things! 
;)

No more baptismal experience of finding oneself standing naked and bald in a store? Possibly wearing a box on ones head?

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if my Op sounded trollish, its because no-ones giving out much info. Just forcing people into experiences without their consent, and giving them no way to leave them.  When asked, no-one cares.

I don't particularly care how noble y'all think you are really. I don't think resident owned experiences should be forced on. And FYI, I've not been to your lands, so its been forced on in some other manner.

If you don't like being labelled as bad people, then its your duty to explain whats going on and why. Not let them find out their trust is being abused. Is it really so hard to put these things in your release notes say? v4.7.7 We're forcing everyone into Experience Firestorm, just an FYI.  But you don't even mention the thing on your entire site, so if it is meant to be so beneficial, why the cloak and dagger?

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SosiaalinenKokeilu wrote:

Is it really so hard to put these things in your release notes say? v4.7.7 We're forcing everyone into Experience Firestorm, just an FYI. 


It has nothing to do with Firestorm viewer as such so it doesn't belong in the 4.7.7 release notes. There is no magic in the Firestorm viewer code that  forces anyone into the Firestorm gateway experience.

No matter which viewer you are on, if you go to one of the Firestorm regions you will have the "Experience Firestorm" enabled.

The magic is all LL magic in the way that experience is configured.

This experience behaves in exactly the same way for everyone, no matter which viewer you use.

Just to stress again, "Experience Firestorm" is NOT a grid-scope experience, it is land-scope only. The experience will only work over Firestorm owned land.

 

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SosiaalinenKokeilu wrote:

 

...its your duty to explain whats going on and why. Not let them find out their trust is being abused.

How is your trust being abused?

Has the Firestorm experience done anything bad to your avatar while you were on Firestorm owned land?

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Jessica Lyon wrote:

Apparently it cannot be revoked once enabled.

Interesting. I wonder why this needs to behave differently from, say, the Cornfield experience.


Once we have the new RegAPI LL will disable the forced Land Scope Experience. It's temporary and it's for the sake of new residents joining SL.

That's interesting, too. Community Gateways won't use Experiences in conjunction with the new RegAPI? I haven't been following it at all, so it's no surprise I'm clueless, but this isn't what I'd expected RegAPI would be about.

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Whirly Fizzle wrote:


SosiaalinenKokeilu wrote:

Is it really so hard to put these things in your release notes say? v4.7.7 We're forcing everyone into Experience Firestorm, just an FYI. 


It has nothing to do with Firestorm viewer as such so it doesn't belong in the 4.7.7 release notes. There is no magic in the Firestorm viewer code that  forces anyone into the Firestorm gateway experience.

No matter which viewer you are on, if you go to one of the Firestorm regions you will have the "Experience Firestorm" enabled.

The magic is all LL magic in the way that experience is configured.

This experience behaves in exactly the same way for everyone, no matter which viewer you use.

Just to stress again, "Experience Firestorm" is
NOT
a grid-scope experience, it is land-scope only. The experience will only work over Firestorm owned land.

 

Also, if you go to a Firestorm region you'll see that the experience is enable in the "About Land" menu and can't be revoked - however, that doesn't mean that the experience is acting on you. The experiences that actually can affect you are listed under the avatar menu in a separate dialog. For an experience to do anything it has to be both 1) enabled by the land and 2) allowed by you. Just entering a parcel with experiences enabled won't prompt you to accept the experience either. I've been to the Firestorm regions other than the Firestorm initial new-user orientation island and haven't had the experience either auto-accepted or auto-prompted, and I can't say what happens on the orientation island because I can access it because it's only open to new accounts.

I do suspect shenanigans in the original post, but it doesn't look like Firestorm are the ones shenaniganning.

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I don't trust Taco Bell; I eat there every day for lunch.

 

You can always use the standard LL viewer.  I actually prefer it.  However you will be seeing more Experiences in the near future if nothing more than the easy of movement around a sim.  Touch the sign and boom.  No more siting, moving and popping off sideways. Easier to use, easier to code and looks remarkably better too.

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Qie Niangao wrote:


Jessica Lyon wrote:

Apparently it cannot be revoked once enabled.

Interesting. I wonder why this needs to behave differently from, say, the Cornfield experience.


I will assume from your response that those can be revoked. I can't offer a reference because I cannot find it now, but I am sure I read (I believe in one or the other of SL forums) that at that time, Linden Realm Experiences could not be revoked once they were accepted although all others could.

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Yeah, I tested Cornfield earlier and could revoke it when I got back home. Now that I think about it, I probably should have tried to revoke it while I was on the sim, to see what happens. (If I could revoke it, perhaps something monitors llAgentInExperience for everybody in the sim and would eventually eject me?) 

But as I read tother responses, now I'm not sure whether I understand what Jessica meant.

I'm finding this confusing, and I've been scripting with Experiences since they started beta.

I can't get in-world to test Linden Realms just now, but it would be interesting to know whether those, too, behave in some different way, as you suggest.

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I fully support the OP's concerns, and Emerald/Phoenix/Firestorm continues with the same duplicity it has for years.

There was one right answer in this interchange: "Yes, you're right, we should change to opt-in instead of opt-out." 


Blather about REG API's doesn't cut it.

This is all you need to know as to why you should not be using Firestorm as a viewer.

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Prokofy Neva wrote:

I fully support the OP's concerns, and Emerald/Phoenix/Firestorm continues with the same duplicity it has for years.

There was one right answer in this interchange: "Yes, you're right, we should change to opt-in instead of opt-out." 

 

Blather about REG API's doesn't cut it.

This is all you need to know as to why you should not be using Firestorm as a viewer.

You tell 'em Prok, your expertness is underrated.

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Qie Niangao wrote:

 

But as I read tother responses, now I'm not sure whether I understand what Jessica meant.

I'm finding this confusing, and I've been scripting with Experiences since they started beta.

I can't get in-world to test Linden Realms just now, but it would be interesting to know whether those, too, behave in some different way, as you suggest.

Qie, see BUG-11109

Those example experiences are set up in the same way as the Firestorm Experience in that they are enabled for all residents and cannot be forgotten or blocked. These type of experiences can be land scope or grid scope.

Only LL have the power to set an experience to behave in this way and they did this for the Firestorm experience as part of the ongoing Gateway testing and to work around a temporary problem with the RegAPI.

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The Firestorm experience has zero to do with the Firestorm viewer. You were added to the experience because either you were in the firestorm gateway or possibly the Firestorm gateway exhibit at the Sci-Fi convention which we utilized the experience key to give visitors a tour hud for touring the role play area on the gateway.

Could you explain please in what way you feel you were abused with the experience key? In what way have we abused the experience key against you?

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Qie Niangao wrote:


Jessica Lyon wrote:


Once we have the new RegAPI LL will disable the forced Land Scope Experience. It's temporary and it's for the sake of new residents joining SL.

That's interesting, too. Community Gateways won't use Experiences in conjunction with the new RegAPI? I haven't been following it at all, so it's no surprise I'm clueless, but this isn't what I'd expected RegAPI would be about.

 Basically the problem is that the current RegAPI does not yet have the ability to enable an experience on the fly for the new residents coming through the Gateway. So new resis would have to accept the experience in the usual manner. Many were failing to do this and then having problems with the parts of the orientation that required the experience to work.

LL are currently working on a new RegAPI for the Gateway program which will have the Firestorm experience enabled for all new accounts entering through the Gateway.

Until the new RegAPI is in use (it's in QA now), the temporary solution was to configure the Firestorm experience so that it gets enabled on the fly without needing to accept it, for anyone who lands on the Gateway regions.

For anyone who is curious, you can see how the experience is used on the orientation region (access is limited to new accounts) by creating an alt account with the RegAPI on one of these Firestorm Gateway landing pages:

 

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