Women degrading advertising in search

[Phil Deakins]

Freya wrote, "Fear and a desire for control are some of the most natural, instinctive urges humanity has."

You disagreed by saying that "Desire for control are actually the worst instincts and urges humanity has".

Notice where you made the mistake. Natural and worst do not mean the same thing, so you didn't disagree with what Freya wrote, even though you thought you did. Humanity has some pretty bad natural "instinctive urges".

[Madelaine McMasters]

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

Freya wrote, "

Fear and a desire for control are some of the most natural, instinctive urges humanity has

.

"

You disagreed by saying that "

Desire for control are actually the worst instincts and urges humanity has

".

Notice where you made the mistake.

Natural

and

worst

do not mean the same thing, so you didn't disagree with what Freya wrote, even though you thought you did. Humanity has some pretty bad

natural

"instinctive urges".

---

It's hard for me to imagine what life was like for our prehistoric ancestors, but it clearly was a hell of a lot different than my life today. I know this because, day in and day out, I fight natural intinctive urges to do the most incredibly stupid things. And you all have probably witnessed a few times when I've lost that fight.

;-).

[Freya Mokusei]

---

UnicornNightmares wrote:

“

Fear and a desire for control are some of the most natural, instinctive urges humanity has.”

  

 Desire for control are actually the worst instincts and urges humanity has

---

These are not mutually exclusive. Phil's already highlighted your error, but to remind you *I* said that nature is not always good; oftentimes, civilisation is better. You claimed that unnatural was a bad thing, and you are wrong. You continue to be wrong in this area, when you say things like "Nature is always trying to evolve into something better." - no, that's not how evolution works. The only certainty with evolution is that nature will end up with something different. Different is not always better, that's why we have Natural Selection (and to a lesser but quicker extent, Artificial Selection) and even then, 'better' is only relevant in regards to an organism being 'better at surviving to pass on the genetic information', no other connotation of the word 'better' applies (especially nothing to do with morality or ethics). This is a dead end.

These rest of these posts are a mess of conflating consensual BDSM with actual abuse, and imaginary straw men that have nothing to do with Second Life Search. Sorry, but I'm discarding until a more rational argument appears.

The modern western porn industry has issues representing women; who would've guessed that a keyword race-to-the-bottom and desperation to monetise under material capitalism would lead to that. It has similar (but different) issues representing men and non-binary folks too - the nature of the beast that reduces everyone and every activity to commodities. My position remains: tackling issues as low-down the chain as Second Life Search rather than the over-arching driving cause is a waste of time. Repressing (maybe not the word you would use, but definitely the theme of this thread) individuals in SL living out fantasies without inflicting harm on anyone won't achieve any progress against a wider societal issue.

Hope this continues to clarify.

[Madelaine McMasters]

---

UnicornNightmares wrote:

I was not talking about somebody being forced to participate in SL roleplay without their consent. I didn’t say that either.  I was talking about media images that are generally abusive toward women, and how people wrongly try to excuse them as bdsm instead of abuse.  And such false claims that anyone who is against said things are being oppressive of people who enjoy adult entertainment, or being oppressive of people who enjoy bdsm.  

50 Shades of Gray is a movie.  The movie did not start a movement of bdsm culture.  Bdsm culture was there long before.  It was long before when people started saying that  ‘good people can enjoy bdsm.’  I have not seen 50 shades of Gray and don’t want to.  I have heard that it represents abuse rather than bdsm, though I don’t have much opinion on it since I haven’t seen it.  In short, when I was talking about bdsm community, I did not mean 50 Shades of Gray.

When I said that study seemed debatable, that was only one point I noted.  The most important point is that, even if what the study claims is true, it’s still not an excuse for the media to

*always *

portray women as submissive, even IF in a bdsm scene.  And then claim that’s how women want to be portrayed  (hint, I’m pretty sure it is not.)   Even if some women have submissive fantasies sexually, that doesn’t mean that’s how they want the media to

*always *

represent them.  The prior is something that’s just for fun in one’s personal life.  The latter is using the prior’s personal life as an excuse to claim that personal fantasy in a constantly sexist way, when it was never intended to be that way.  

I’m personally more into femdom, with just a slight sub streak - and I can say that the repulsive images in the media and porn toward women: they don’t do anything to excite my sub streak.  So anyone who claims that “most women are sexually submissive” (and that that’s why the media portrays that so much.)   In my experience, I would beg to differ.  The sex industry is not doing that to excite my submissive streak, and probably is not doing it to be pleasing to any “submissive”  women either.    But either way, I would repeat again the above paragraph.  

Your link about bdsm did not say anything different than what I said, btw.

---

Although I agree that media representations of women are far from the actual truth, *always* is a counterproductive exaggeration. If you want to rail against the mischaracterization and mistreatment of women, media is just one small part of the picture.

Tell all your women friends to stop buying copies of 50 Shades (80% women purchasers) and tickets to the movie (68% women). When the movie came out, I was in the middle of preparation for a community play. 50 Shades was a hot topic of discussion amongst the women in the troupe, ranging in age from high school to 60-ish. I was clearly out of the loop.

One of the women announced that she'd read all the books, that they were great, and was planning to see the movie. Another then yelled over to her husband "Oh my, you're a lucky man!", to which he responded "You call that luck?"

[Snugs McMasters]

---

Madelaine McMasters wrote:

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

Freya wrote, "

Fear and a desire for control are some of the most natural, instinctive urges humanity has

.

"

You disagreed by saying that "

Desire for control are actually the worst instincts and urges humanity has

".

Notice where you made the mistake.

Natural

and

worst

do not mean the same thing, so you didn't disagree with what Freya wrote, even though you thought you did. Humanity has some pretty bad

natural

"instinctive urges".

---

It's hard for me to imagine what life was like for our prehistoric ancestors, but it clearly was a hell of a lot different than my life today. I know this because, day in and day out, I fight natural intinctive urges to do the most incredibly stupid things. And you all have probably witnessed

a few times

when I've lost that fight.

;-).

---

A few times?

[Madelaine McMasters]

---

Snugs McMasters wrote:

---

Madelaine McMasters wrote:

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

Freya wrote, "

Fear and a desire for control are some of the most natural, instinctive urges humanity has

.

"

You disagreed by saying that "

Desire for control are actually the worst instincts and urges humanity has

".

Notice where you made the mistake.

Natural

and

worst

do not mean the same thing, so you didn't disagree with what Freya wrote, even though you thought you did. Humanity has some pretty bad

natural

"instinctive urges".

---

It's hard for me to imagine what life was like for our prehistoric ancestors, but it clearly was a hell of a lot different than my life today. I know this because, day in and day out, I fight natural intinctive urges to do the most incredibly stupid things. And you all have probably witnessed

a few times

when I've lost that fight.

;-).

---

A few times?

---

Phil? Freya? Somebody?

 

Make her shut up!

[Rhonda Huntress]

---

Madelaine McMasters wrote:

---

Snugs McMasters wrote:

---

Madelaine McMasters wrote:

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

Freya wrote, "

Fear and a desire for control are some of the most natural, instinctive urges humanity has

.

"

You disagreed by saying that "

Desire for control are actually the worst instincts and urges humanity has

".

Notice where you made the mistake.

Natural

and

worst

do not mean the same thing, so you didn't disagree with what Freya wrote, even though you thought you did. Humanity has some pretty bad

natural

"instinctive urges".

---

It's hard for me to imagine what life was like for our prehistoric ancestors, but it clearly was a hell of a lot different than my life today. I know this because, day in and day out, I fight natural intinctive urges to do the most incredibly stupid things. And you all have probably witnessed

a few times

when I've lost that fight.

;-).

---

A few times?

---

Phil? Freya? Somebody?

 

Make her shut up!

---

Don't you hate it when the little voices get outside of your head?

Is it still auditory hallucinations if other people hear them?

What if YOU are the hallucination and the other voices are the real ones?

[Madelaine McMasters]

---

Rhonda Huntress wrote:

---

Madelaine McMasters wrote:

---

Snugs McMasters wrote:

---

Madelaine McMasters wrote:

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

Freya wrote, "

Fear and a desire for control are some of the most natural, instinctive urges humanity has

.

"

You disagreed by saying that "

Desire for control are actually the worst instincts and urges humanity has

".

Notice where you made the mistake.

Natural

and

worst

do not mean the same thing, so you didn't disagree with what Freya wrote, even though you thought you did. Humanity has some pretty bad

natural

"instinctive urges".

---

It's hard for me to imagine what life was like for our prehistoric ancestors, but it clearly was a hell of a lot different than my life today. I know this because, day in and day out, I fight natural intinctive urges to do the most incredibly stupid things. And you all have probably witnessed

a few times

when I've lost that fight.

;-).

---

A few times?

---

Phil? Freya? Somebody?

 

Make her shut up!

---

Don't you hate it when the little voices get outside of your head?

Is it still auditory hallucinations if other people hear them?

What if YOU are the hallucination and the other voices are the real ones?

---

You're not... helping me, Rhonda!

 

 

[Rhonda Huntress]

---

Madelaine McMasters wrote:

---

Rhonda Huntress wrote:

---

Madelaine McMasters wrote:

---

Snugs McMasters wrote:

---

Madelaine McMasters wrote:

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

Freya wrote, "

Fear and a desire for control are some of the most natural, instinctive urges humanity has

.

"

You disagreed by saying that "

Desire for control are actually the worst instincts and urges humanity has

".

Notice where you made the mistake.

Natural

and

worst

do not mean the same thing, so you didn't disagree with what Freya wrote, even though you thought you did. Humanity has some pretty bad

natural

"instinctive urges".

---

It's hard for me to imagine what life was like for our prehistoric ancestors, but it clearly was a hell of a lot different than my life today. I know this because, day in and day out, I fight natural intinctive urges to do the most incredibly stupid things. And you all have probably witnessed

a few times

when I've lost that fight.

;-).

---

A few times?

---

Phil? Freya? Somebody?

 

Make her shut up!

---

Don't you hate it when the little voices get outside of your head?

Is it still auditory hallucinations if other people hear them?

What if YOU are the hallucination and the other voices are the real ones?

---

You're not... helping me, Rhonda!

 

 

---

Sorry.

 

You will always be the pretty one, tho. ♥

[Freya Mokusei]

---

Madelaine McMasters wrote:

Phil? Freya? Somebody?

Make her shut up!

---

Sorry Maddie, that's not how I operate.

I don't know if I can make anyone do anything.

[Madelaine McMasters]

---

Freya Mokusei wrote:

---

Madelaine McMasters wrote:

Phil? Freya? Somebody?

Make her shut up!

---

Sorry Maddie, that's not how I operate.

I don't know if I can 

make

anyone do anything.

---

Pfft!

The first step in doing anything is believing you can.

[UnicornNightmares]

You guys are merely bitching about grammatical errors.  Those things are minimal and not the point.  The porn sites I surted through were not "straw men arguments" those actually happened.  

You don't tell other people to "make someone shut up"  as this is a free world where people are supposed to be allowed to express themselves, especially for improved communities.  Not for people who believe that "control and fear are central to human instinct"  (or whatever that commenter said) and therefore you think the thing to do is actually BE controlling.  And keep being pushy at someone who has a different opinion from you, who actually wants to improve things rather than bully people.  

I know you guys are on here more often than I am, you probably don't have rL lives, so I can't comment as often as you do.  I don't know why that makes you think that you're a team though, who is there to "make her shut up." like a bunch of children who don't like someone who believes something different from you.  

[Rhonda Huntress]

---

UnicornNightmares wrote:

 

I know you guys are on here more often than I am, you probably don't have rL lives,

---

Sounds like a challenge!  This could be some silly fun. How about you tell me what it means to "have no life" and I will either confirm it or give counter examples of my life.  Then, I will challenge you in a similar manner.

So.  Lay it on me, Baby.  What does it mean for me to have no life?

[ETA]

OR!  We could play it sort of the opposite of a Never Have I Ever game.  You say "I remember when" and then say something you have done.  If I can't say the same or something close then you gain a point.  The first one to 5 wins.

Ready?

I remember when  ... we had 24 people come over out of the blue because my husband posted "Rhonda's cooking something special" on his Facebook page.

[Madelaine McMasters]

---

Rhonda Huntress wrote:

---

UnicornNightmares wrote:

 

I know you guys are on here more often than I am, you probably don't have rL lives,

---

Sounds like a challenge!  This could be some silly fun. How about you tell me what it means to "have no life" and I will either confirm it or give counter examples of my life.  Then, I will challenge you in a similar manner.

So.  Lay it on me, Baby.  What does it mean for me to have no life?

[ETA]

OR!  We could play it sort of the opposite of a Never Have I Ever game.  You say "I remember when" and then say something you have done.  If I can't say the same or something close then you gain a point.  The first one to 5 wins.

Ready?

I remember when  ... we had 24 people come over out of the blue because my husband posted "Rhonda's cooking something special" on his Facebook page.

---

I'm sooooo embarassed that I was on the verge of envying your life, only to discover that you probably don't have one.

I had a dozen people over last night for the debut of my outdoor theater. A streaming glitch six minutes into the movie informed us that the remainder wouldn't be ready to play until after sunrise (and my screen faces east!), but a little scrambling got it going again. It must have gone well overall, because I'm getting phone calls and e-mails from folks wanting to get in the queue. Next year, I'll have classic/convertible car night on the lawn.

When I was a kid, we watched movies in the barn (built in 1870 or so) on an old projector (built in 1916). I can't keep that projector working and I don't have Dad's enthusiasm for emptying the barn onto the lawn so I can fill it with people. So, I spent the summer rebuilding my patio, erecting a store bought gazebo, building a weather-proof projection pod, and outfitting the house with a motorized screen. I can have the theater up and running faster than my guests can pee, which I was told last night is "too fast".

[Madelaine McMasters]

---

UnicornNightmares wrote:

You guys are merely bitching about grammatical errors.  Those things are minimal and not the point.  The porn sites I surted through were not "straw men arguments" those actually happened.  

You don't tell other people to "

make someone shut up

"  as this is a free world where people are supposed to be allowed to express themselves, especially for

improved

communities.  Not for people who believe that "

control and fear are central to human instinct

"  (or whatever that commenter said) and therefore

you think the thing to do is actually BE controlling

.  And keep being pushy at someone who has a different opinion from you, who actually wants to

improve

things rather than bully people.  

I know you guys are on here more often than I am,

you probably don't have rL lives

, so I can't comment as often as you do.  I don't know why that makes you think that you're a

team

though, who is there to "

make her shut up

." like a bunch of children who don't like someone who believes something different from you.  

---

Who defines "improved? You? We're an independent lot, and bristle at such propositions.

My plea for help getting Snugs to shut up is an inside joke. Snugs is my alt. For some reason, the regulars here seem to tolerate this fabrication. However, over the years, several people have found this ego/id thing of mine to be pretty creepy. Other than Snugs, I think I only ask friends to shut up. Like Snugs, they do the opposite.

There is evidence backing Freya's belief that control and fear are central to human (and other animals) instinct. And nobody here suggested that the thing to do is "BE controlling". What you imagine we think and what we actually think are probably quite different. A lot of heated arguments start and continue because of this misperception.

Putting words in our mouths and then disparaging us over them doesn't help you. Nor does insulting us. I'd call those bullying tactics and using them to refute them just trips our irony alarms.

Multiple people offering opposition to a view isn't proof of teamwork. Many of us have been here a long time, have heard the same complaints, and provided similar responses. Certainly there are friendships here, and some mutual admiration, but it's also not uncommon for us to lock horns (I have two, and a tail!) with each other.

 

[UnicornNightmares]

I didn’t mean that you said blatantly, that the thing to do is be controlling.  I’m just observing the way you guys behave and speak, and that IS how you operate.   I didn’t say that I decide what it means to be improved, I simply use common sense and then speak it plainly - anyone with common sense knows that not being oppressed is a more improved situation than being oppressed.   It’s a bit ridiculous for you to try to claim that I use common sense as if I’m claiming that ***I *** decide everything.  

I’m not misperceiving anything, you guys are purposely misperceiving things I say and twisting them up.   You did put words in my mouth in your earlier comments, but I never put words in your mouth, I just explained that.  You guys are the ones using bullying tactics, that’s obvious enough that I don’t even need to say it.  You can’t just insult and try to control someone in a discussion, and expect them to never insult you back.  

And yeah, you have been here a long time because you guys don’t have anything better to do than get pushy toward people on the forums.  I’m not trying to make you envy my life, because I don’t care about that, I don’t care about your game either.  I only care about the point I was making.  When I said that you probably don’t have rL lives, it was just an observation to how you appear to behave like vultures trying to attack any person in the forum who expresses any thought that you don’t want them to have.  I am here less often than you, I don’t wait around here to bully people.

 

I don't mean that anyone who posts on a forum ever does not have a life.  I mean that the way in which you guys particularly wait around on the forums to bully people,  says something rather pathetic about you.  

 

I already told you about my life:  I *do not * bully people on the forums.  There is no common ground between us.

[Rhonda Huntress]

So ... I don't have a real life because I post on an internet forum.  And this is true because someone with a real life posted it on an internet forum.

Yes.  I see the common sense in action.

 

Seriously, tell me about your Life™ and help me understand your point of view.  I bet there is some common ground somewhere we can work with.

[Phil Deakins]

Isn't common sense enough? Now you want common ground? Is there no end to your desires?

[Rhonda Huntress]

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

Is there no end to your desires?

---

Oh, the rain outside reminded me.  Do you ... ummm ... do you have a dry suit big enough for two?  And maybe a friend to help fill it with jello?

 

[Madelaine McMasters]

---

Rhonda Huntress wrote:

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

Is there no end to your desires?

---

Oh, the rain outside reminded me.  Do you ... ummm ... do you have a dry suit big enough for two?  And maybe a friend to help fill it with jello?

 

---

You may be asking the wrong fella...

Better to watch it at YouTube. The aspect ratio is messed up here.