RL 15 Year Old On Mature Land

[Dresden Ceriano]

 

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Tammy Armundsen wrote:

"So you think turning someone in to LL that readily admits they are underage in RL and is on an adult account makes someone a "self-righteous intolerant hypocrite"? Really?"

Okay, make that "self-righteous intolerant vigilante."

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I fail to understand your position on this. Maybe you'd care to elaborate on why you think ARing someone who is clearly committing a bannable offence is not the right thing to do for himself, this person and the Second Life community as a whole. I'd be really interested to know how you've reached this conclusion.

 

...Dres

[Mags Indigo]

@ Perrie... so she lied to you about being 15 - you ARd her - LL suspended her account while they checked her age - she proved she really was 18/19 (still not too old to 'talk like a teen' ) and now it's all back to normal - whatever normal is.

You did the right thing by ARing her - believe me LL would have banned the account if she was underage, she prob got suspended for a wee while for lying about her age in chat.

Just imagine - people actually tell lies in SL - who would have thought :smileywink:

[Cabbage Acanthus]

 

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Tammy Armundsen wrote:

"So you think turning someone in to LL that readily admits they are underage in RL and is on an adult account makes someone a "self-righteous intolerant hypocrite"? Really?"

Okay, make that "self-righteous intolerant vigilante."

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Are you actually saying that it is wrong for someone to AR an underage person who is in a mature or adult sim?

Seriously?

Please clarify your position.  What is your stance regarding underage individuals being present in adult areas.  Should we encourage that?  Should we turn a blind eye?  How do you justify your position?

[Perrie Juran]

@ Tammy Armundson

I know I have been slow in replying to your posts.  I've had other priorities.

Some people have pointed out that this was possibly a RL adult roleplaying a young teenager.  While that is a possibility except for the fact she is still on the grid I don't believe so.  Much of that is based on the entirety of my chats with her.  For the purpose of this response I am going to assume that she really was who she said she was.

You have accused me of being a "self-righteous intolerant vigilante,"  with out really knowing me or my personal opinions on this subject.  For one thing I am on record saying, "That if by the time your kids are 16 they are not able to handle many if not most adult topics then you as a parent have failed."  

Again assuming that this girl was really 15, she was playing with fire.  I did have several choices I could have made.  I could have just walked away and refused to have any further contact with her and just 'ignore' the situation.  I could have chosen to play the part of the platonic father and talked with her about how she was playing with fire and be there as a friend as she explored her sexuality.  Yes, I had other options.  For better or for worse I made the choice that I did.  It was based on two things, first the SL TOS and secondly on the entirety of my conversations with her which is something that you are not privy to nor am I going to post them.

What I am going to tell you is this:  That based upon my conversations with this girl and the way she responded to things that I said I could have emotionally wrapped her around my little finger.  This is not bragging on my part, just a simple fact. 

Yes, I am convinced that this girl is only 15.  And even though she is still on the grid, personally I would need to see the proof otherwise to change my mind in this situation.  I can only hope that she does not get involved with the wrong man or men here.  She could find herself caught up in situations that she is not capable of handling.

All said and done I believe I did the right thing in this situation.

 

[Maitimo]

It's possible that since the original suspension the underage girl has turned 16, verified her age and is now allowed back on legitimately (albeit in PG sims only).

 

 

[Darrius Gothly]

 

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Perrie Juran wrote:

All said and done I believe I did the right thing in this situation. 

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As a dad of three, and as a dad that has had a talk with the local restaurant manager about serving alcohol to my underage son ... I applaud your choice.

Now, you face that way, I'll face this way. When they come to toss flames again .. we'll see 'em coming no matter which way they approach.

[Tammy Armundsen]

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

 

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Perrie Juran wrote:

All said and done I believe I did the right thing in this situation. 

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As a dad of three, and as a dad that has had a talk with the local restaurant manager about serving alcohol to my underage son ... I applaud your choice.

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Ah, but having a talk wasn't the right thing, was it? You should have reported him to the police. That's what Perrie did.

 

 

[Tammy Armundsen]

Perrie, you do sound thoughtful, sincere, and compassionate. Sorry I slurred you. I got up on my soap box because the only really vicious thing I've witnessed in my happy tenure in Second Life is Abuse Reporting. Some people delight in meting out "justice" in the form of punishment and revenge and I guess that will never change. They will always find witches to burn, too. Getting someone banned from Second Life is like getting them the death penalty (if you think that's hyberbole, fine - you wouldn't miss being here yourself, would you?). I just urge every compassionate open-minded person out there to think twice before turning someone in.

[Darrius Gothly]

 

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Tammy Armundsen wrote:

Ah, but having a talk wasn't the right thing, was it? You should have reported him to the police. That's what Perrie did. 

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I did report him (my son) to the "police" (the mangement of the establishment). The 15-year old in the OP did not suffer any criminal penalties, was not improperly inconvenienced and suffered only the consequences of her actions. I see no difference in my actions and Perrie's actions.

When you consider that Perrie could very well have suffered real-world criminal prosecution for continuing the conversation (even consensual virtual sex with a minor is being prosecuted by courts here in the USA) or he could have been sued at some later time because the girl's parents found her having sex with someone else and then learned that he had not sought to stop her from harming herself (and that's not a big stretch of imagination either as people seem willing to sue anyone and everyone in hopes someone can take their own responsibility off their hands), Perrie not only did the right thing, he did the SMART thing.

I fail to see why you find it reprehensible that Perrie faced a moral challenge and rose above the "not my problem" apathy that so typifies the failures in today's society. I daresay if you were in need of help, were perhaps engaging in an activity that put your health or life at risk, you would very much want someone to intercede and help you out of that predicament.

On the other hand, if you feel that anyone "meddling" in your business is .. well .. meddling, then you should perhaps practice what you preach and stay out of this discussion. Because honestly, you are meddling in someone else's business .. not the least of which is your own.

[Darrius Gothly]

 

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Tammy Armundsen wrote:

Perrie, you do sound thoughtful, sincere, and compassionate. Sorry I slurred you. I got up on my soap box because the only really vicious thing I've witnessed in my happy tenure in Second Life is Abuse Reporting. Some people delight in meting out "justice" in the form of punishment and revenge and I guess that will never change. They will always find witches to burn, too. Getting someone banned from Second Life is like getting them the death penalty (if you think that's hyberbole, fine - you wouldn't miss being here yourself, would you?). I just urge every compassionate open-minded person out there to think twice before turning someone in.

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Okay, this I can understand. But now I must ask .. what OTHER measures were available to Perrie to stop the girl from engaging in illegal and possibly harmful behavior? Serious question here .. what else could he have done to stop her from harming herself or someone else?

 

[Perrie Juran]

 

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Tammy Armundsen wrote:

Perrie, you do sound thoughtful, sincere, and compassionate. Sorry I slurred you. I got up on my soap box because the only really vicious thing I've witnessed in my happy tenure in Second Life is Abuse Reporting. Some people delight in meting out "justice" in the form of punishment and revenge and I guess that will never change. They will always find witches to burn, too. Getting someone banned from Second Life is like getting them the death penalty (if you think that's hyberbole, fine - you wouldn't miss being here yourself, would you?). I just urge every compassionate open-minded person out there to think twice before turning someone in.

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I do fully understand what you mean about "the death penalty."  Everytime I see a thread about someone finding their account on hold or suspended or banned for what they claim to be no apparent reason I cringe.  Just the thought of getting 'ghosted' is enough to give me shivers.

I've been in SL almost 4 years now.  Sometimes the drama stories I hear about really make me scratch my head.  While yes I have witnesses a few major dramas in my time in SL, I have only ever had to mute one person and have only ever filed one AR, the situation in this thread. 

Darius brought up the legal issues.  Those are real and they are scary.  Just being picked up for questioning can be enough to completely ruin someone's life.  And it does happen enough to make it a viable issue.

When my daughter was 14, one of her friends of the same age was a C cup.  She would wear the skimpiest bikinis you can imagine to the pool.  Even knowing her age it was hard not to stare.  She did not look 14.

A little bit of make up, the right clothes and the fake ID which she obtained and she was getting into bars around where we lived.  The fact that "I met her in this bar and she had ID" in my state was not an affirmative defense.  Get caught with her and your life was ruined. And she was sexually active. I found out about all that after she got caught by her parents.

I disagree with a lot of the laws governing sexual activities.  I think many of them are draconian and puritan and that they do more harm than good.  But they are what they are.

I think a discussion about teenage sex and teenage sex as it relates to Second Life could make for a good discussion here.  However I don't think it would be allowed.  Whatever personal opinions may be held at Linden Lab, they as a business for both legal and publicity reasons have to toe the line and say, "No sexual age play in SL."