Perrie Juran Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Several weeks ago I met and 'friended' a Newbie at one of the clubs I frequent. Over the course of a week I had several chats with this girl. The more we IM'd, the more convinced I became that this girl could be no more than 14 or 15 years old. So I decided to try and find out. This is from my chat logs: [2011/01/12 16:36] Resident: do u kno where NOOB ISLAND is[2011/01/12 16:37] Perrie Juran: That was one of the LM's I sent you... a friend just gave it to me when i asked good places for free clothes[2011/01/12 16:37] Perrie Juran: Also called "Freebies Island"[2011/01/12 16:38] Resident: i think im talking about da island where u can get neckad n **bleep** with me so they will know i hav a bf[2011/01/12 16:40] Perrie Juran: i dont know[2011/01/12 16:40] Resident: ok[2011/01/12 16:40] Resident: ok[2011/01/12 16:40] Resident: so u want me 2 go alone[2011/01/12 16:41] Perrie Juran: i didnt know it was like that there[2011/01/12 16:41] Resident: no its not da island u talkin about[2011/01/12 16:44] Perrie Juran: i cant join you right now[2011/01/12 16:44] Resident: ok than ill talk 2 u lata[2011/01/12 16:44] Resident: ttyl[2011/01/12 16:44] ttyl[2011/01/12 16:51] Resident is Offline[2011/01/12 16:54] Resident is Online[2011/01/12 21:48] Resident: hi tp me[2011/01/12 21:57] Perrie Juran: Hi[2011/01/12 21:58] Perrie Juran: How are you tonight?[2011/01/12 21:58] Resident: hey wanna dance 2getha[2011/01/12 21:58] Perrie Juran: Sure[2011/01/12 21:59] Resident: ok[2011/01/12 21:59] Perrie Juran: So what have you been up to?[2011/01/12 22:01] Resident: nun I wanted 2 go 2 your house but I wanted 2 wait 4 u[2011/01/12 22:02] Perrie Juran: Do you work or go to school?[2011/01/12 22:02] Resident: go 2 school u[2011/01/12 22:02] Perrie Juran: job hunting now[2011/01/12 22:02] Perrie Juran: what grade are you in?[2011/01/12 22:03] Resident: oh let me change n 2 sumthin sexi[2011/01/12 22:03] Perrie Juran: you look fine[2011/01/12 22:03] Resident: i kno but im talkin about sexier[2011/01/12 22:04] Perrie Juran: ok[2011/01/12 22:04] Perrie Juran: so what year school are you in?[2011/01/12 22:05] Resident: last year in high school[2011/01/12 22:05] Perrie Juran: so you are 17?[2011/01/12 22:05] Resident: no 15 So I filed an underage abuse report and marked myself to appear off line to her. I did get the automated response from Linden Lab that they had recieved my report. I saw her log in for two more days and then no more. Now here it is several weeks later and I see her logging in again. And I am concerned.I feel like this is one of those situations where knowing the results of the AR is needed. Maybe this person was only RP'ing a 15 Y.O. But then that would be sexual age play, a perma-bannable offense for wanting to have sex with me as a 15 Y.O. It sure sounded like she wanted to pixelate to me.I'm concerned. Personally I do not want to have any contact with this girl just to protect myself. Not knowing the results of LL's investigation I don't want to file another AR and get in trouble myself for abusing the AR system.What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kascha Matova Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I can't say I have a lot of experience with ARs, nor do I have experience with encountering admitted 15 year olds (probably guys in my case) trying to redezvous with me in this fashion. But you've done the right thing so far. If you have a record of your AR filing having been received, it is in LL's hands on how to handle it from there. I trust they will, because a situation like this, if not handled in timely fashion, would undermine any appearance of having stepped up to the plate on such matters. Big deal that they've been over the past year or two. As for filing another AR, if your current tactic of appearing offline is working, then I would stick with that barring another encounter with her, which I would guess is unlikely since you never tp'd her to your house and she will likely lose interest and vacate before figuring out what she can buy to discover your true login status. I can't see you two simply bumping into each other by chance. And as for you knowing she's still online and not knowing LL's resolution, all you can do is realize you did your part, and accept that. You can't ban her, or you would. And of course, she was here before you ran into her, as are probably many others like her, and you can't suffer for the existence of all of them. Such is the problem with blanket automated solutions. They are rarely contiguous. There are always holes and gaps to fall through. I hope I helped :womanhappy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Danube Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Perrie.. You missed a name.. :smileywink: Did you AR'd her together with the chat logs?.. Someone AR'd my alt account and managed to get me suspended for having this in my profile. I thought it was funny but not to those guys at Zindra. "Hi, I'm here to keep an eye on my husband whom I think is cheating on me with some internet girl. So I'm not here for any type of relationships but I am open to possibility. I mean just because you are diabetic, doesn't mean you cant look at the menu, right?... To my husband, Don't think I didn't know what you were doing during those long hours.. Yes, Hidden Camera, dear Hubby... I used your log in account too.. I know!! Prepare your lawyer!" I only survived about 2 days in Zindra before my account was reported for using someone's account/stalking and suspended for 4 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 Willow Danube wrote: Perrie.. You missed a name.. :smileywink: Did you AR'd her together with the chat logs?.. Someone AR'd my alt account and managed to get me suspended for having this in my profile. I thought it was funny but not to those guys at Zindra. I fixed the one miss on the name, Thank you. Yes, I included the chat logs. Wild that you got a suspension for what you put in your profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kascha Matova Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Ya isn't sharing accounts among multiple people against the ToS? Pretty open and shut when you admit it right up there in writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 Kascha Matova wrote: Ya isn't sharing accounts among multiple people against the ToS? Pretty open and shut when you admit it right up there in writing. The TOS does not say that you can not share accounts unless I am missing it somewhere. What it does say is in gist that it is not a good idea and that YOU are responsible for your account even if it is another person breaking the rules. http://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.php 3.2 You agree to use an Account Name in Second Life that is not misleading, offensive or infringing. You are responsible for activities related to your Account Name, and for keeping your password for this Account secure. "At the time your Account is opened, you must select a password. You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your password and are responsible for any harm resulting from your disclosure, or authorization of the disclosure of your password or from any person's use of your password to gain access to your Account or Account Name. Your disclosure of your password to any other person is at your own risk." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kascha Matova Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Perrie Juran wrote: Kascha Matova wrote: Ya isn't sharing accounts among multiple people against the ToS? Pretty open and shut when you admit it right up there in writing. The TOS does not say that you can not share accounts unless I am missing it somewhere. What it does say is in gist that it is not a good idea and that YOU are responsible for your account even if it is another person breaking the rules. http://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.php 3.2 You agree to use an Account Name in Second Life that is not misleading, offensive or infringing. You are responsible for activities related to your Account Name, and for keeping your password for this Account secure. "At the time your Account is opened, you must select a password. You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your password and are responsible for any harm resulting from your disclosure, or authorization of the disclosure of your password or from any person's use of your password to gain access to your Account or Account Name. Your disclosure of your password to any other person is at your own risk." Ahh. I stand corrected. Good thing too, because several years ago I let a bf of mine log in to build something for my house and someone trying to start something with me at the time tried to use it against me. I told her there was nothing wrong with it without actually knowing if there was or not. Since, I've wondered whether I might have been wrong after all, and assumed I was. Thanks :womanhappy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peewee Musytari Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I don`t think poster said that her hubby "allowed" her to use his account, hacking someone`s account is def against the TOS lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 Peewee Musytari wrote: I don`t think poster said that her hubby "allowed" her to use his account, hacking someone`s account is def against the TOS lol You are correct about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Danube Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Perrie Juran wrote: Wild that you got a suspension for what you put in your profile. Well to be honest, at that time I didn't know it was against the ToS to blatantly admit in the open that I 'hacked' into my fictionous Husband's account. I created the account to see what kind of reaction I get from the male population. True enough no one dared to even say Hi to me except a lady who thought my profile was funny. 2 days...! that was how quick I got AR'd... I'm just surprised the little girl you mentioned survived this long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 Willow Danube wrote: I'm just surprised the little girl you mentioned survived this long. As I stated, I didn't see her logged on for a couple of weeks. She had joined the group at the club where I met her and it was the only group in her profile. I had checked it a few times to see her last log in date and she had not been logged in for a couple of weeks. I was doing what I could to watch the situation. I had informed the club hostess, who had also been trying to help this girl get 'oriented' to SL what had transpired. The girl's Ava was only a few days old when I met her and she had told me a RL friend had told her about SL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiffy Vella Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Willow Danube wrote: "Hi, I'm here to keep an eye on my husband whom I think is cheating on me with some internet girl. So I'm not here for any type of relationships but I am open to possibility. I mean just because you are diabetic, doesn't mean you cant look at the menu, right?... To my husband, Don't think I didn't know what you were doing during those long hours.. Yes, Hidden Camera, dear Hubby... I used your log in account too.. I know!! Prepare your lawyer!" I only survived about 2 days in Zindra before my account was reported for using someone's account/stalking and suspended for 4 months. You cruel cruel woman......that is soooo disgustingly cruel I cant stop laughing. How many men slunk back to the bedroom and looked sideways at their wives because of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishtara Rothschild Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 That doesn't surprise me. New residents of all ages have access to mature regions by default, unless they're stupid enough to enter their real birthdate during account signup. A small signup fee would go a long way to weeding them out. It would also prevent the massive alt abuse that we can see on an everyday basis, in these forums for example. Which is also done by people with the mental capacity of teenagers, by the looks of it. At least they're not as dangerous as they are in the wild. If you tell a gang of 15-year-olds in RL that they're not supposed to be somewhere or do something, they might beat you up and leave you bleeding on the pavement. Like the German senior citizen who was brutally beat within an inch of his life by two juveniles after he asked them not to smoke in the subway. Homo sapiens of that age are vicious omnivorous predators who have not yet developed a functional human brain. That is one reason why adults don't want to be around them unless the ill-mannered brats are their own wayward offspring, and why the SL populace was understandably shocked when LL threatened to allow the little apes onto the adult grid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Perrie Juran wrote: As I stated, I didn't see her logged on for a couple of weeks. She had joined the group at the club where I met her and it was the only group in her profile. I had checked it a few times to see her last log in date and she had not been logged in for a couple of weeks. I was doing what I could to watch the situation. I had informed the club hostess, who had also been trying to help this girl get 'oriented' to SL what had transpired. The girl's Ava was only a few days old when I met her and she had told me a RL friend had told her about SL. Please, don't take this the wrong way, I'm not sticking up for this girl in any way and I'm not saying you did the wrong thing. But isn't revealing personal RL information about someone to another resident a TOS violation? Just saying, maybe you should keep the fact that you may have done that to yourself. Also, is it possible that LL would have suspended her for a few weeks then let her back on as a teen with the same account? Doesn't really make sense but I'm just trying to think of possibilities. Anyway, you did the right thing ARing her... now it's up to LL to do the rest. Guess it would be a little strange to IM her and see what she says, but it's a thought. Either way, it's out of your hands and no longer any of your concern. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Danube Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Tiffy Vella wrote: You cruel cruel woman......that is soooo disgustingly cruel..... :smileywink: Obviously there were a lot of guilty husbands at that time judging from how quickly I was AR'd ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 Dresden Ceriano wrote: Please, don't take this the wrong way, I'm not sticking up for this girl in any way and I'm not saying you did the wrong thing. But isn't revealing personal RL information about someone to another resident a TOS violation? Just saying, maybe you should keep the fact that you may have done that to yourself. ...Dres Privacy Policy: http://secondlife.com/corporate/privacy.php#privacy6 Disclosing Personal Information in Profiles, Forums or within Second Life "You may choose to disclose personal information in our online forums, via your Second Life profile, directly to other users in chat or otherwise while using Second Life. Please be aware that such information is public information and you should not expect privacy or confidentiality of this information." This is different than the issues with RedZone which was among other things possibly (and I only say possibly because LL never made an official statement) found in violation of 8.3 of the TOS http://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.php#tos8 , "(i) Post or transmit viruses, Trojan horses, worms, spyware, time bombs, cancelbots, or other computer programming routines that may harm the Service or interests or rights of other users, or that may harvest or collect any data or personal information about other users without their consent;" (my bolding for emphasis). So unless someone is aware of something else in the TOS or CS that I am missing, I don't believe that there was a problem with my sharing this fact with the hostess. Once the girl told me she was 15, it became "public information." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Perrie Juran wrote: So unless someone is aware of something else in the TOS or CS that I am missing, I don't believe that there was a problem with my sharing this fact with the hostess. Once the girl told me she was 15, it became "public information." This is what I was thinking of: 4. Disclosure Residents are entitled to a reasonable level of privacy with regard to their Second Life experience. Sharing personal information about your fellow Residents without their consent -- including gender, religion, age, marital status, race, sexual preference, alternate account names, and real-world location beyond what is provided by them in their Resident profile -- is not allowed. Remotely monitoring conversations in Second Life, posting conversation logs, or sharing conversation logs without the participants' consent are all prohibited. From:Community Standards Like I said, I don't think you were wrong in letting her know someone at her place was underage. I probably would have done that same thing. I just wouldn't have posted it here. Hopefully I'm just being paranoid, but I just don't want to see you get into trouble for doing the right thing. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 @ Dresden Ceriano: Thank you for refreshing my memory on that part of the TOS. @ Vladi Hazlenut: I am not aware of anyone ever being censored for posting name redacted chat logs. I could be wrong. It's an interesting point you raise. I'd be very surprised given the title of this thread if it hadn't been looked at by a moderator. I don't know, and beyond what I already posted I am sure not going to push the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Perrie Juran wrote: Dresden Ceriano wrote: Please, don't take this the wrong way, I'm not sticking up for this girl in any way and I'm not saying you did the wrong thing. But isn't revealing personal RL information about someone to another resident a TOS violation? Just saying, maybe you should keep the fact that you may have done that to yourself. ...Dres Privacy Policy: http://secondlife.com/corporate/privacy.php#privacy6 Disclosing Personal Information in Profiles, Forums or within Second Life "You may choose to disclose personal information in our online forums, via your Second Life profile, directly to other users in chat or otherwise while using Second Life. Please be aware that such information is public information and you should not expect privacy or confidentiality of this information." This is different than the issues with RedZone which was among other things possibly (and I only say possibly because LL never made an official statement) found in violation of 8.3 of the TOS http://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.php#tos8 , "(i) Post or transmit viruses, Trojan horses, worms, spyware, time bombs, cancelbots, or other computer programming routines that may harm the Service or interests or rights of other users, or that may harvest or collect any data or personal information about other users without their consent;" (my bolding for emphasis). So unless someone is aware of something else in the TOS or CS that I am missing, I don't believe that there was a problem with my sharing this fact with the hostess. Once the girl told me she was 15, it became "public information." The privacy policy is LL talking to the account holders about what they can and cannot do to protect our privacy pretty much.. If we go spouting our information or knowingly go clicking on links..We weaken that and open ourselves to people that could use that information against us.. It's not rules as the CS is.. Example:LL won't go giving out our credit card information to anyone..If by chance we put our credit card information in chat .. The risk is there that someone will use it and that we put the risk there of it being exposed..not LL.. Privacy policy would not be saying since Credit card information was found in chat that it is ok for everyone to use it.. It's easy to read it as a loophole to the rules..but it's about what they do to protect our information and advice about what risks are out there is all :smileywink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted March 23, 2011 Author Share Posted March 23, 2011 First of all, thank you to those who have replied so far. And thank you Willow for bringing this back to the subject at hand. There were several reason for my filing the AR, first and foremost was to protect myself. I knew I had not done anything untoward with this girl and that the chat logs (which I provided to LL) would clearly show that all I had done was try to help her get oriented in SL. And then there are what would be to me the secondary issues of TOS violations on her part. But the even bigger issue to me here personally is not knowing the outcome of the AR. I don't know how many AR's a day LL receives. Given how butthurt sensitive some people in SL can be I can only imagine it's a load. This alone may make it difficult for LL to inform us of the outcome of their investigation. Regardless of whether she is actually RL of legal age, by telling me that she was 15 Y.O., she clearly was soliciting me for sexual age play which as far as any of us know is a perma-bannable offense. If I had taken her up on her offer to pixelate with me I could very well have found myself gone from the Grid now. Right now, if I should bump into her on the grid, see her with another male avatar, I'd be hard pressed not to warn that individual about her. And yet I would find myself in a catch 22 because as someone pointed out, it is a violation of the TOS to share someone else's age. I could only hope that common sense would prevail at the Lab in a situation like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabbage Acanthus Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Perrie Juran wrote: (snip)Right now, if I should bump into her on the grid, see her with another male avatar, I'd be hard pressed not to warn that individual about her. And yet I would find myself in a catch 22 because as someone pointed out, it is a violation of the TOS to share someone else's age. I could only hope that common sense would prevail at the Lab in a situation like this. IANAL, but based on my understanding of the TOS, I think the only thing you could do if you saw "her" with another male avatar would be to file an AR. Then, in the description section paste the chatlog of your dealings with "her" to support your statement. Someone who is immature and irresponsible enough to either engage in sexual ageplay or actually be underage and seeking cyber is certainly immature enough to AR you for spoiling their fun. I would caution you not to get involved with the individual directly again. LL has set it up so that you pretty much have to stand aside and let whatever is going to happen in that situation happen, aside from filing an AR of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladi Hazelnut Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 LL will not disclose the outcome of an AR. They will only say that it has been looked in to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammy Armundsen Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 You say you sought to have the putative fifteen-year-old put to Second Death mainly to protect yourself from being banned yourself. Yet you hastened to add that you were innocent and confident of proving it. So why didn't you just give her a short lecture and sever contact? What did you really have to fear? Or were you altruistically trying to protect others (as you later suggest) from the predations of a teen? Perhaps you wanted to protect her morals by driving her out of Second Life? You didn't kill her and now you're upset. Oh dear. Maybe she'll seek revenge! In fact she has no way of knowing who turned her in and is likely still under the delusion that you are an interesting, attractive person and it's someone else out there who is just another self-righteous intolerant hypocrite who thinks his own fantasies are ok but others are dangerous and must be suppressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Tammy Armundsen wrote: You say you sought to have the putative fifteen-year-old put to Second Death mainly to protect yourself from being banned yourself. Yet you hastened to add that you were innocent and confident of proving it. So why didn't you just give her a short lecture and sever contact? What did you really have to fear? Or were you altruistically trying to protect others (as you later suggest) from the predations of a teen? Perhaps you wanted to protect her morals by driving her out of Second Life? You didn't kill her and now you're upset. Oh dear. Maybe she'll seek revenge! In fact she has no way of knowing who turned her in and is likely still under the delusion that you are an interesting, attractive person and it's someone else out there who is just another self-righteous intolerant hypocrite who thinks his own fantasies are ok but others are dangerous and must be suppressed. So you think turning someone in to LL that readily admits they are underage in RL and is on an adult account makes someone a "self-righteous intolerant hypocrite"? Really? As has been stated before, there's either one of two possibilities: She truly is underage and lied to LL about it or... She is playing at being underage and trying to have sexual relations with adult avatars. Either way, what she is doing is very against LL's policies of exceptable behavior. Perrie, by reporting her and being concerned about the outcome, is merely being a responsible SL resident. It's not self-righteousness; it's not intolerance; it's not hypocrisy. What it is, is commendable. For anyone to suggest otherwise makes me question their thought process. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammy Armundsen Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 "So you think turning someone in to LL that readily admits they are underage in RL and is on an adult account makes someone a "self-righteous intolerant hypocrite"? Really?" Okay, make that "self-righteous intolerant vigilante." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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