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  • 11 months later...

Greetings Phil how goes it? I mean no offense to you, nor any other W/10 Home x64 user, but I build my own desktops starting with an empty case. When you get the chance Phil you might consider checking out my reply on the Forum post : Linux vs Windows   Have a great day Phil !!

"I Love Simplicity"

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I imagine that many people here build, or have built, their own desktops - including me ;) There's nothing special or clever about it. Apart from that, and to answer your question again, Microsoft is responsible for your ability to cheaply build your desktops.

You have a great day too ;)

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

As I said, I imagine that many people here build, or have built, their own PCs. There's nothing hard or complex about it. It's only fitting ready-made pieces together - like Lego :)  Now, if you want to boast about creating those bits, please do, and we will all be in awe of you. Putting pieces together isn't something that needs real brain power, whreas designing and creating those pieces does.

You are right that Microsoft had nothing to do with Linux. What Microsoft is responsible for is causing PCs to be cheap, which led to the writing of Linux for them. That wouldn't have happened without Microsoft. You are greatly indebted to Microsoft, as we all are.

 

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I've built my own PCs since Torvalds was a pup -- I installed SCO on one, long before Linux existed -- and WIndows 10 is just fine. I still have a Linux box as a file server, as well as a Mac on the network, but I've found Windows 10 to be the best version of Windows I've used, and it was trivially easy to configure and to install Second Life.

Whether Windows is worth the licensing cost is mostly a matter of what other software needs to run on the machine. I've been a Linux user for so long that my preferred tools are almost all available on Linux as well as Windows and Mac, but I'd never recommend anybody else change a tool chain that's productive and enjoyable for them, just to fit a different desktop OS.

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You can teach a chimp to type posts; however nothing special about that. LOL I keep seeing posts on how special I am not, but the only ones using that adjective are some of you "special" Forum ppl. I am just an "old geezer" who has recently been doing some extensive "research" Actually we have the late great Steve Jobs to thank for the cheapo M$ pcs on the current market & not Bill Gates & company. Apparently you need a factual history lesson on Linux too

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Linux

Indeed it was some of the "special" answers I sifted through in the very Forum that led me to post answers to residents' questions that really work. Many feel "indebted" to M$; especially after Windoze 8 & 8.1.... Maybe Phil you need to surf on over to Spewgg,com & amazon tell all those giving W/10 poor ratings how ungrateful they are. I can not forsee into past & predict what coulda, shoulda, woulda been w/o M$..my you are special  :)

"I Relish Simplicity"

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First, I didn't even suggest, let alone say, that Windows 10 was particularly good, and I didn't compare it to Linux, so stop making things up.

Second, I haven't seen anywhere in this forum where anyone has said how "special" you are. Again, stop making things up.

Resorting to making things up is a sure sign of someone who has no useful points to put forward.

And finally, you are wrong - just plain wrong. Allow me to give you a history lesson. The PC was IBM's offering in the home computer market. 'Personal Computer' ('PC') being IBM's name for it. That was in the 1980s. They expected to sell 1.5 million units and that would be the end of it. Because of that, they made 2 big mistakes. (1) they made it open architecture, which meant that anyone could legally copy the hardware, and (2) they didn't tie Bill Gates down. I.e. they didn't put anything in the contract that prevented Microsoft from selling the DOS he created for it to 3rd parties. Both of those were very unlike IBM. They were blunders. Those two things together (hardware are DOS) meant 3rd parties could clone IBM's PC. And that's what happened. Various companies took advantage and manufactured what were known as 'IBM compatibles'. This was long long before Linux. Linux was written FOR the PC.

IBM was the biggest name in computers at the time, and everyone who wanted a computer wanted either an IBM or an IBM clone. The upshot was that those 3rd party manufacturers were in competition with each other for the IBM clone market which, naturally, drove the prices down until we were all able to enjoy cheap PCs.

You may want to say that Apple predated the PC, and you'd be right if you said that, but that's not the point. I didn't suggest that Microsoft was responsible for home computers - they weren't. They were responsible for cheap PCs., which is what I said. Steve Jobs played his part in the home computer market, as did other people, but it was Bill Gates (Microsoft) that opened the door to the cheap computers that we've had since then. Pricewise, Apple (Steve Jobs) was forced to stay in touch with the PC. You owe Microsoft a lot.

That concludes your history lesson for today, old man. I hope you found it worthwhile.

 

Note: When IBM realised their mistakes, they tried to recover the situation and brought out an alternative to DOS - OS2. They hoped that their name would cause people to buy their PCs instead. But PC clones were cheap by then so it didn't work, and IBM left the market that they had blundered into causing.

 

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Now on top of it all you are re-writing history to match your opinions too. I had a Forum "resident" tell me I had offended Forum Gurus. I have yet to see any really. What does infuriate many of you is the fact you have not a clue how to use, nor even setup Linux, so instead name call it & ridicule me for using it. "If it was not for Windozze M$ there be no Linux." Have you got a crystal ball that allows you gaze into the past, present & even the future?? I have been called a multitude of names in this Forum. Here is a shocker. I could really care less. Some post opinions here (guesses) or just copy n paste other online answers often: instead of really providing a *solution (s) to Forum tech question(s)  The only lesson you are giving me is one in vanity, which abounds in this Forum. If it was not for the late great Steve Jobs providing competition via Apple to Micro$$oft you'd be paying double, or more for your copies of Windozzzzzze 10 & your boxed pcs.. I'll give you a quick Microsux lesson:

Windozzze ME= failure

Windozzze Vista= failure

Windozzze 8 = failure

Windozzze 8.1 = failure

Windozzze 10 = approx. 50% unhappy with it

Here is another "lesson" Phil:

Forum keyboard wannabe bullies = huge fail with me

I was going to leave this Forum, but my real life (what some of you do not have) significant other said this: "_____ are you going to let some sorry *censored* censored* *censored* idiots run you off when all you are doing is giving tech advice THAT REALLY WORKS!?" Thank you Phil for you  opinionated lessons lol. Yes, I am old and old enough to know better, get it Phil?

"I Relish Simplicity"

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Well, well, well. We are in a paddy, aren't we? lol

The history I wrote is accurate. It is what happened. It's not opinion. Would you like to know how I know? You would? Good. Then I'll tell you. There are two things. (1) I have a book called 'The Fate Of IBM', in which all of IBM's involvement with the PC is recorded, including their blunders which caused our cheap PCs. (2) I was involved in computers during the latter half of the 80s until now, when it was all happening. Perhaps you would do well to follow your own recommendation (see your previous post) and do some research on it. It's interesting to note that all you could manage is to say that the history I provided is merely opinion, but didn't even attempt to provide any corrections to it. It's not surprising though, because there are no corrections to it, but so far you've done quite well at inventing things (see the previous posts) so you could have given it a go.

However, you did manage to invent other things in your latest post - the one I'm replying to now. One is your idea that people are "infuriated" about their inability to "use or even setup Linux", even though nobody has indicated any desire to use Linux, or shown any infuriation over anything.

Another invention of yours in the post is that people are calling you names and ridiculing you for using Linux. I haven't seen anything like that in anyone's posts. I haven't seen anyone calling you names, or a single word of criticism for Linux, and I haven't seen anything that ridicules you. I have seen disagreements with you, and you may feel ridiculed, but that's just the way you are - perhaps you think so highly of yourself that it has that effect on you. It seems to me that someone choosing the avatar name that you chose does think very highly of themselves, and is unlikely to be comfortable when criticised by lesser mortals.

Maybe you are right that Apple provides competition for Windows, which causes Windows to cost a lot less than it might have done. I can't argue against that, but I'd like to point out that I haven't said anything about Windows, except as an initial reply to the OP when I said that Windows 10 is fine for SL. What you chose to take me up on was that we all have our cheap computers today because of Microsoft. That's nothing to do with Windows. I'm sure that an old man like you will remember that that was back in the days of DOS, when Windows was years away in the future.

And not only have I said nothing about Windows in this dialogue with you, but I have said nothing about Linux either, except that it came a long time after the PC and Microsoft taking advantage of IBM's blunders that caused us to have cheap computers, and yet your reply to me is only about Windows, Linux, and you. Reading what people actually write is your friend ;)  Perhaps your chosen avatar name attracts plenty of flack, which would be understandable, but none of it has come from me, and there's none of it in this thread. Heck, you're not even arguing with me. I laid out the history of why we all have cheap computers today, and you came back with talk only about Windows, Linux, and how badly you are treated in the forum, all of which came many years afterwards.

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Windows 10 works well and has some nice features (over 7; I bypassed 8) and SL runs just fine. The Anniversary Update (which you will get if you get a new computer) fixed a lot of the "Win7 programs don't work quite right" issues if you have old favorites you still want to use.

 

The biggest issue -- for anyone who cares -- is the lack of privacy in Win10 as well as the notification pop-ups and constant nudging to install or use products. You can turn most of that OFF if you choose to, so you might want to type in "Windows Privacy Settings" into Google to see what those issues are. If you post your whole life on Facebook then you probably don't care, but a lot of folks do :D.

 

You might also want to check the differences between Windows Home and Pro versions. I paid a bit extra for Pro and for me that was important. 

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SyM0n wrote:

I may have to buy a new computer and am wondering if SL will work on windows 10

Hello, SyM0n

Second Life should run very well on Windows 10, as long as the rest of the computer's specifications are up to the job - ie a large enough memory and a half-decent graphics card.

I've limped along on Windows Vista since 2007 until a couple of years ago when I could tweak nothing more on my old desktop computer, then I borrowed a friend's laptop last week, just to see if I could have a jaunt into Second Life, and that had Windows 10 installed, and felt pretty smooth. Was even running Second Life wirelessly for a good couple of hours without problems.

 

 

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LinuxGod4u wrote:

Now on top of it all you are re-writing history to match your
opinions
too. I had a Forum "resident" tell me I had offended Forum Gurus. I have yet to see any really. What does infuriate many of you is the fact you have not a clue how to use, nor even setup Linux, so instead name call it & ridicule me for using it.
"If it was not for Windozze M$ there be no Linux."

Is that intended to quote me? If it is, you really do need to learn to read properly. What I actually said was that Linux was written for the PC, after IBM's blunders that allowed Microsoft to sell DOS (that was created specifically for the PC) to third parties, thus causing the competion that caused cheap PCs. Windows never came into it. You do remember DOS, don't you? It preceded Windows by roughly 10 years. The things you write give the impression that you are relatively new to the computing world. It sounds like you don't know anything of what happened before Windows. So to correct your hastily misremembered quote, if it was not for PCs, together with IBM's blunders and Bill Gates' action, there be no Linux. Although that's not exactly what I said. I simply said the Linux was written for the PC. I hope that clears it up for you.

Now a comment about your performance that I have seen in this forum. You do seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder about Windows being more widely used than Linux, and you do seem to imagine that those who aren't particularly interested in Linux are against you personally. They are not. People here have no interest in what operating system anyone uses. You probably feel the way you do because, as a Linux user, you are in a natural minority, and you feel that most other people are against you. Nobody is - not for championing Linux, anyway. Your avatar name will undoubtedly cause some people, including me, to form an opinion of you, but that was your own doing. And the way you fail to address people's points when they disagree with you, and the way you invent things instead, naturally has a negative effect on people, causing them (and me) to form a worse opinion of you. But again, that's all your own doing, and only you can do anything about it


I was going to leave this Forum, but my real life (what some of you do not have) significant other said this: "_____ are you going to let some sorry *censored* censored* *censored* idiots run you off
when all you are doing is giving tech advice THAT REALLY WORKS!?
" Thank you Phil for you  opinionated lessons lol. Yes, I am old and old enough to know better, get it Phil?

It sounds like your significant other isn't aware of what you really get up to in the forum. I haven't actually seen any tech advice from you, but I only look in this General Discussion sub-forum, so I probably miss it all. All I have seen from you is what I've already described, such as inventing stuff and making out that the other person has said them, so that you argue against them, misquoting, insults (such as saying the we all don't have lives), and all that sort of stuff. Perhaps you should allow your significant other to read this stuff. She will soon see that you bring any negative stuff on yourself.

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Phil Deakins wrote:

(1) I have a book called 'The Fate Of IBM', in which all of IBM's involvement with the PC is recorded, including their blunders which caused our cheap PCs. (2) I was involved in computers during the latter half of the 80s until now, when it was all happening.

I'll not join the ad hominem fray of this thread*, but I do want to point out that the first half of the 80s makes it a bit less clear that IBM's actions were in fact a blunder. It's not that they intended for the open system outcome that developed, but it wasn't so obviously bad for their business as everybody assumes in hindsight.

The IBM PC wasn't the only possible outcome for "personal computers" -- and at the time, IBM wasn't even sure that "personal" would have a very large consumer segment -- as opposed to simply getting on every desk in the enterprise, displacing all those 3270 terminals connected to System/370 mainframes.

In the late 70s, just before IBM's PC, other potential competitors (besides Apple) included DEC with its own hardware and OSs, and a host of aspiring vendors of systems running CP/M on a variety of microprocessors. Indeed, early DOS is painfully derivative of CP/M and DEC's RT-11 operating systems.

The point is, the success of the IBM PC was in very large measure because it was an open system that attracted clone competitors and drove costs down. Sure, if IBM could have captured that whole market and collected their usual margins, it would have been a huge windfall -- but that's fallacious: no such market would ever have existed. And, indeed, IBM may never have been a significant player in any personal computer market, had it not been for that open systems "blunder".

As it was, the IBM corporation raked in plenty of revenue, despite the competition, selling desktop PC workstations and ThinkPad notebooks for decades.

_______

*"fray" / "thread" -- nyuk-nyuk

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Phil Deakins wrote:


LinuxGod4u wrote:

Now on top of it all you are re-writing history to match your
opinions
too. I had a Forum "resident" tell me I had offended Forum Gurus. I have yet to see any really. What does infuriate many of you is the fact you have not a clue how to use, nor even setup Linux, so instead name call it & ridicule me for using it.
"If it was not for Windozze M$ there be no Linux."

Is that intended to quote me? If it is, you really do need to learn to read properly. What I actually said was that Linux was written for the PC, after IBM's blunders that allowed Microsoft to sell DOS (that was created specifically for the PC) to third parties, thus causing the competion that caused cheap PCs. Windows never came into it. You do remember DOS, don't you? It preceded Windows by roughly 10 years. The things you write give the impression that you are relatively new to the computing world. It sounds like you don't know anything of what happened before Windows. So to correct your hastily misremembered quote,
if it was not for PCs, together with IBM's blunders and Bill Gates' action, there be no Linux
. Although that's not exactly what I said. I simply said the Linux was written for the PC. I hope that clears it up for you.

Now a comment about your performance that I have seen in this forum. You do seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder about Windows being more widely used than Linux, and you do seem to imagine that those who aren't particularly interested in Linux are against you personally. They are not. People here have no interest in what operating system anyone uses. You probably feel the way you do because, as a Linux user, you are in a natural minority, and you feel that most other people are against you. Nobody is - not for championing Linux, anyway. Your avatar name will undoubtedly cause some people, including me, to form an opinion of you, but that was your own doing. And the way you fail to address people's points when they disagree with you, and the way you invent things instead, naturally has a negative effect on people, causing them (and me) to form a worse opinion of you. But again, that's all your own doing, and only you can do anything about it

I was going to leave this Forum, but my real life (what some of you do not have) significant other said this: "_____ are you going to let some sorry *censored* censored* *censored* idiots run you off
when all you are doing is giving tech advice THAT REALLY WORKS!?
" Thank you Phil for you  opinionated lessons lol. Yes, I am old and old enough to know better, get it Phil?

It sounds like your significant other isn't aware of what you really get up to in the forum. I haven't actually seen any tech advice from you, but I only look in this General Discussion sub-forum, so I probably miss it all. All I have seen from you is what I've already described, such as inventing stuff and making out that the other person has said them, so that you argue against them, misquoting, insults (such as saying the we all don't have lives), and all that sort of stuff. Perhaps you should allow your significant other to read this stuff. She will soon see that you bring any negative stuff on yourself.

You both need your bl00dy heads cracking together!

None of this information is useful to the original poster, and you BOTH look like a pair of daft little lads in the playground.

Gee-ore nah! :matte-motes-sour:

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Marigold Devin wrote:


Phil Deakins wrote:


LinuxGod4u wrote:

Now on top of it all you are re-writing history to match your
opinions
too. I had a Forum "resident" tell me I had offended Forum Gurus. I have yet to see any really. What does infuriate many of you is the fact you have not a clue how to use, nor even setup Linux, so instead name call it & ridicule me for using it.
"If it was not for Windozze M$ there be no Linux."

Is that intended to quote me? If it is, you really do need to learn to read properly. What I actually said was that Linux was written for the PC, after IBM's blunders that allowed Microsoft to sell DOS (that was created specifically for the PC) to third parties, thus causing the competion that caused cheap PCs. Windows never came into it. You do remember DOS, don't you? It preceded Windows by roughly 10 years. The things you write give the impression that you are relatively new to the computing world. It sounds like you don't know anything of what happened before Windows. So to correct your hastily misremembered quote,
if it was not for PCs, together with IBM's blunders and Bill Gates' action, there be no Linux
. Although that's not exactly what I said. I simply said the Linux was written for the PC. I hope that clears it up for you.

Now a comment about your performance that I have seen in this forum. You do seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder about Windows being more widely used than Linux, and you do seem to imagine that those who aren't particularly interested in Linux are against you personally. They are not. People here have no interest in what operating system anyone uses. You probably feel the way you do because, as a Linux user, you are in a natural minority, and you feel that most other people are against you. Nobody is - not for championing Linux, anyway. Your avatar name will undoubtedly cause some people, including me, to form an opinion of you, but that was your own doing. And the way you fail to address people's points when they disagree with you, and the way you invent things instead, naturally has a negative effect on people, causing them (and me) to form a worse opinion of you. But again, that's all your own doing, and only you can do anything about it

I was going to leave this Forum, but my real life (what some of you do not have) significant other said this: "_____ are you going to let some sorry *censored* censored* *censored* idiots run you off
when all you are doing is giving tech advice THAT REALLY WORKS!?
" Thank you Phil for you  opinionated lessons lol. Yes, I am old and old enough to know better, get it Phil?

It sounds like your significant other isn't aware of what you really get up to in the forum. I haven't actually seen any tech advice from you, but I only look in this General Discussion sub-forum, so I probably miss it all. All I have seen from you is what I've already described, such as inventing stuff and making out that the other person has said them, so that you argue against them, misquoting, insults (such as saying the we all don't have lives), and all that sort of stuff. Perhaps you should allow your significant other to read this stuff. She will soon see that you bring any negative stuff on yourself.

You both need your bl00dy heads cracking together!

None of this information is useful to the original poster, and you BOTH look like a pair of daft little lads in the playground.

Gee-ore nah! :matte-motes-sour:

And what is it that you think you look like Mari?

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I have just taken up Forum "Gurus" patterns. Luckily there was a man born by the name of Steve Jobs who made it possible for many of you to own a Winduxe PC. The only one I feel "indebted" to is the late Mr. Jobs whose organization Apple brought enough competition to Microsux, so as to keep boxed pcs, etc within affordable price ranges. ALL of us in this Forum combined would NOT of made a freckle on Mr. Jobs' left buttock. Phil if you read the link I gave you Microsux played no part in the initial development of "Unix" AKA Linux.  Now please excuse it has been entertaining, but I am going to see if there are any questions I can accurately answer here. ALL of you have a great day! I ammm

"I Relish Simplicity"

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Qie Niangao wrote:

In the late 70s, just before IBM's PC, other potential competitors (besides Apple) included DEC with its own hardware and OSs, and a host of aspiring vendors of systems running CP/M on a variety of microprocessors. Indeed, early DOS is painfully derivative of CP/M and DEC's RT-11 operating systems.

The point is, the success of the IBM PC was in very large measure
because
it was an open system that attracted clone competitors and drove costs down.

Sorry but... Just NO.

Way back when, our friends Infernal Bussiness Machines, or 'The Big Blue'  as they were known in the trade, were the go-to guys for corporate computers, partly due to their company motto "Everything for your Office".

 

Your entire office setup all came in IBM Beige, with that well known blue logo, from the hand cranked photo-duplicator, through the mechanical adding machines in Accounts to the new Electronic Computer down in a refrigerated room full of techy types with kipper ties.

 

Somebody told IBM about these new 'desktop computers' used by small companies, like the old 'Superbrain' running cpm, and HUBRIS made IBM form a PC division, they expected them top fail, but were determined to have a PC, to keep costsa down the whole thing was designed to use stock parts from 3rd party suppliers like intel and sony, except for a very very limited amount of ibm's own content made in their own factories.

 

Then they needed an os for it, and trolled around little programming hopuses, till they found Microbloat, who wroite bespoke apps for mainframes, Gates told the  MIBs (Men In Blue) that he didnt do OS code and certainly not for 8088's, and sent them to the cpm people, Mr CPM was out, and his wife refused to sign the non-disclosure without knowing what the MIBs wanted, and they refused to say without a signature so they walked away from cpm forever and went back to Gates.

 

Gates remembered that he had met some guys at a convention who had a thing called QDOS (Quick & Dirty OS), and called them up, agreed the $50k asking price and then after rebadging it, flogged it to IBM, who promptly rewrote 90% including adding a load of external commands which were basically cross ported from the IBM System/3x machines which shared some of the PC's componants and arcitecture (at least in the smallest versions the 'Baby' versions).

 

Gates took his copy of ibmdos, and flogged it as msdos, clone makers bought the same off the shelf componants, and worked hard to crack the IBM only parts, like the BIOS, essentially having to redesign thew wheel to evade copywrite suits, Compaq was one of the first to succeed and produce a 100% ibm compatible that could legally be sold.

 

Meanwhile, despite losing ground selling the machine they had invented, IBM and MS worked together on OS/2 untill Gates knifed IBM in the back  by releasing Win 3.0 claiming "it was to pave the way to os2 gradually" IMB ditched the partnership deal and pressed on alone (which since they were doing most of the coding wasnt a loss for them. Gates tried muddying the waters when os/2 was launched by pre-releasing his own os/2 (nicknamed Tracy by some computer journalists to differentiate it from ibm os/2) but the only people who ever saw Tracy were a handfull of reviewers. 

 

Gates pressed on with Win 3.x and then Win 4, which used an awful lot of that shared ibm os/2 code and ended up as Win 95.

 

What really killed IBM off in the PC game was them deciding their 1st attempt to keep pc's non open, had fauled and they should try again.

 

PS/2 Personal System 2. basically a 12mhz 20286 based PC with 'Microchannel' architecture, a second bus alongside the main pc bus, meaning all expansion cards had to be bespoke ps2 cards at stupid prices (due to licencing fees charged by ibm). People didnt want to pay NEXT years prices for LAST years PC with a shortage of expansion cards because of a worthless 2nd bus system, they certainly didn't want to pay £40 for a new floppy drive instead of £5 because it came with a fancy plug-n-play edge connector on the back of the slot-n-push casing.

 

IBM finally ended up selling 'PS/2' machines without microchannel, made in a 3rd party factorys under licence by the same manufacturing firms that made their competition.

 

PC's were not and were never intended to be open, 3rd party companies BROKE them open the hard way, by reverse engineering and finding new ways to duplicate copywrited functionality.

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LinuxGod4u wrote:

I have just taken up Forum "Gurus" patterns. Luckily there was a man born by the name of Steve Jobs who made it possible for many of you to own a Winduxe PC. The only one I feel "indebted" to is the late Mr. Jobs whose organization Apple brought enough competition to Microsux, so as to keep boxed pcs, etc within affordable price ranges. ALL of us in this Forum combined would NOT of made a freckle on Mr. Jobs' left buttock. Phil if you read the link I gave you Microsux played no part in the initial development of "Unix" AKA Linux.  Now please excuse it has been entertaining, but I am going to see if there are any questions I can accurately answer here. ALL of you have a great day! I ammm

"I Relish Simplicity"

If you are addressing Phil why are you replying to me?

You might want to learn how to use the forum UI before you go dispensing your version accurate information to the unsuspecting to their impending misfortune.

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