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Level of Detail won't change triangle/vertices count?


BonitaBunny
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I'm meshing hair, nothing complicated, but for some reason I'm unable to change the LoD in the uploader. I can change the triangle limit, but it doesn't change the triangle or vertices count, like I wanted. They're all at their own set limit, and I don't want to upload a mesh with such demanding detail—or pay the price for it.

 

For some reason it only happens when I add flat planes. I'm not sure what to make of it, but even uploading the planes alone and ditching the base mesh, I still get this issue. I've never had a problem uploading flat plane meshes before. 



 

 

 

As you can see, the triangles are all stuck at 60978. It's not the viewer because I've tried with other meshes, and I've tried without the planes and it works fine. I've even tried taking away the planes one by one to see if one in specific may have been causing the issue, but that didn't get me anywhere either.

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BonitaBunny wrote:

I'm meshing hair, nothing complicated, but for some reason I'm unable to change the LoD in the uploader. I can change the triangle limit, but it doesn't change the triangle or vertices count, like I wanted. They're all at their own set limit, and I don't want to upload a mesh with such demanding detail—or pay the price for it.

There's a reset button under the Upload tab. Click on that and that problem is fixed.

But really, reading your profile here I assume you're making some mesh clothing or mesh hair for sale. I do not want to sound rude but more than 60 000 triangles is an enormous lot for something like that. It's the level of poly count you only should use on very rare occasions and obly for the kind of very intricate collector items you only rez every now and then to look at, not for something intended for regular use and certainly not something you wear in public. And if you make mesh for sale you need to make proper LOD models, not rely on the botched ones the uploader can generate.

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Hi :)

I had something similar happening in the Uploader a while ago but not sure if it is caused by the same thing as you mention it only happens "when I add flat planes". For me it was the opposite, Closed meshes, smooth shading and not UV unwrapping.

The thread can be found here  https://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/LI-count-something-not-right/m-p/2256797#M23895

If that doesn't help you could always upload the  .blend file with those troublesome planes to here  http://www.pasteall.org/blend/    Someone may be kind enough to check it out for you :)

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Aquila Kytori wrote:

I had something similar happening in the Uploader a while ago but not sure if it is caused by the same thing as you mention it only happens "when I add flat planes".

It happens if you do a test upload with high poly LOD models. Afterwards the poly coutns for the autogenerated LOD models will never go lwoer than the ones you used then unless you reset the stored upload data. Unti recently the only way to do that were to delete that slm file so many people have trouble finding or rename your dae file but recently LL added a reset button to the uploader.

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The slm file (to use old settings when you upload with the same filename) system causes all sorts of unexpected problems. I don't think the tiny savings in entering settings is worth it. So I have it turned off by setting the debug setting "MeshImportUseSLM" to false. It's sticky, even through viewer updates. So once you've turned it off, it stays off unless you turn it back on. Then you can just forget about resetting, renaming, or deleting slm files, and all those problems go away.

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I'm aware that typically uploading something with ridiculously high polycount will give errors like this, but that's not the case. The mesh I was trying to upload was not that high in poly-count compared to others I've had no issue with. I tested by removing planes until only a couple were remaining, (in other words, a much much lower triangle count) and it still snagged during upload. I tried the reset button, but it didn't help. I've cleared cache, ect. I'll try to optimize and keep my meshes below 60k but I don't think this problem is related to poly count.

 

I tried an old mesh file that I had laying around--something with a much larger tri-count and it worked just fine.

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BonitaBunny wrote:

Yes, 60,000 is very high but I'm a bit confused as to why you're bringing this up? The mesh I was testing only had 6,000 not 60,000. Just wondering if something signified that I had used 60,000 at some point.

Well, the screenshot you posted says 60978 triangles. :matte-motes-tongue:

@Drongle,

actually I'm pretty happy the .slm thingy is there, I used it from day one, and fortunately never had any issues with it. :matte-motes-smile:

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BonitaBunny wrote:

I'm aware that typically uploading something with ridiculously high polycount will give errors like this

It will also cause ridiculously high lag after it's been uploaded,

 


BonitaBunny wrote:

Yes it does SORRY! I confused myself because the finished mesh was 60,000 but after removing mass of the mesh to test it out, it was only 6,000 and still gave me the same issue.

Oh, that's more like it =^_^=

Even so, my answer is still: make the LOD models yourself. Not only is that guaranteed to eliminate any problem of any kind with ridiculous poly counts from the uploader, it is also guaranteed to give you far better and more efficient mesh. Yes, advanced LOD model optimisation is difficult, really difficult, and also rather time consuming. But coming up with something at least a little bit better than the uploader's is something anybody who knows how to handle a 3D editor can do and it only takes a minute or two.

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I think it's safe to say it's got something to do with the shading like you mentioned. I toyed with it a bit, and it worked momentarily. I'm a 3dS Max user though :smileysad: no .blend 

LoD works fine when I removed the planes. I remade about 2 of them and re-added them to the mesh (no way they were over 100 triangles each) exported to SL, and I'm having the issue again. 

This time, just medium and low. SLM is disabled. I've cleared it, restarted client. Guess it's time to mess around with smoothing until I find a solution :\

 



 

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No Blender file, but the problem is there in the dae file. So if you can make that available, we might be able to find what's making the LOD generator choke, as we were able to do with the torus/shadfing case. The smaller the file the better for that kind of thing. So best if you can get it down to as simple a case as possible. There probably won't be a solution that can be fixed, because the GLOD library is third party, but maybe we can tell what topology has to be avoided.

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I had the same issue as Aquila (I think).  I had used the wireframe modifier and since I was just going to tint it and add a specular to it I am guessing that I may not have unwrapped it, only given it a material.  Since I hadn't made anything using that before I thought that the uploader might not have liked that process :D.  It had smooth shading on it.

 

Pretty sure I trashed the file though as not terribly useful except in OpenSim. There it uploaded just fine.

 

 

BUT a couple weeks later I made something similar and DID unwrap it and it uploaded at  .3 LI at reasonbale LODs. It also had smooth shading. So there may be a hint in there as to the problem.

 

AND, the .slm file doesn't happen in Firestorm so that is dependent on the viewer. Just in case folks didn't know.  

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Hi :)

I had problems when i tried importing your .dae into blender, nothing seemed to get imported,  so i uploaded directly to SL then exported back to my hard drive with the Singularity viewer.

When I tried exporting that mesh from blender, in the Uploader I got similar results to you except all all the lower LODs were the same count as the High LOD.      Also your mesh is tiny ! ! !

In Blender I scaled up your mesh then looked at it again.  I noticed that the two large planes were in fact four ! Each large plane had a plane duplicated over it.

When i tried separating the planes and exporting, the numbers in the Uploader were then correct.



So I would suggest you try removing those duplicated surfaces and see if it uploads correctly.

 

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Welp, no luck. I deleted the extra planes, went through and cleaned up all the extra faces, but still stuck.

 

D

 

They will upload correctly alone, but when added to the base mesh (which uploads correctly by ITSELF), I still get sticky LoDs.

 

Could this be because the extra strands are faces copied from the base mesh? This is how I've always made my hair. Select row of faces>Copy>Duplicate the new strand>Flip normals. I've never had a problem before, I'm not sure what's different this time to give me such hell.

 

 

here's an example of what I mean ^



 

 

 

I tested it by taking away each chunk of hair at a time until there was only one piece of the base remaining. The second that last peace was tossed away, the planes worked fine on their own. But when I re-added it, stuck once again.

 



 



 

 

tried with a different piece.

 

 

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hi :)

The Collada file you linked to, for some reason is not getting imported into Blender. Its just not in the list of objects in the scene. I tried a quick Google search and noted somebody had the exact same thing happen when trying to import a .dae from Sketchup. Anyways .......... can you link to a .fbx and or .obj of the "planes" and "chunk of hair" ("base mesh") then perhaps I will be able to at least se it in Blender.

If Drongle, or any body else :) sees this do you have any idea why the Collada file linked to in message number 15 above, wont open in Blender yet can be uploaded and imported into SL ?

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"any idea why the Collada file linked to in message number 15 above, wont open in Blender"

It seems to be the reference to the image file. If you delete the <library_images> section, and replace the <diffuse> section that refers to it with the <diffuse> section above (colour only), then it imports into Blender. Following re-export, I do get different results on upload. The re-exported file give normal LOD triangle counts. The original (without the image reference) gets a reduced triangle count for thge first LOD step, but then it's stuck for the remaining twp steps. The files are so different that it may be very hard to work out where the causative difference is. First thing will be to try removing the <controller> (the armature).

By the way, I don't see the duplicates you mentioned. Just two parallel sheets (16 verts each) and a cylinder-like thing (24 verts).

ETA: I am using the file from the first of Bonita's links.

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Ah that could be because I use a FBX converter to get my .dae files. Otherwise my material IDs don't go through correctly. Yeesh... the problem with 3ds max never seem to end. I guess I should invest some time in learning to use Blender :/

 

 

OBJ download

 

FBX Download

 

And I re-exported the .dae as the original collada instead of converting it, so here's that as well.

DAE Download

 

As Drongle mentioned, I'm not seeing the ghost duplicates either :/ What a mystery. 

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Again I am not able to import the .dae into Blender.

The .fbx imported ok with the bones and vertex groups . I uploaded as a static mesh and the numbers in the LOD slots looked ok.



The .obj imported without bones or vertex groups and on upload again the numbers were as expected.



The only thing I can suggest is you try exporting from 3D Max in one of the above formats and then importing back in.

 

 

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