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I've been an Online Users since it's Inception: GEnie / Sierra / delphi / CompuServe / Prodigy / Aol.

That brings back memories, Right!!! I remember brilliant & innovated individual's who created these online worlds that help connect people from all walks of life. Places Like: INmagination Online / Active World / Fandom / Sims Online / SL.

Most of these Worlds except for a few have come and gone. I do realize as technology advances it creates glitches and lag leaving these platforms virtually obsolete .

Why haven't SL capitalized on Online Learning, Seminars, and Gaming? Why haven't some of the companies vested in SL offer Computer Programming and Design Classes? Why haven't we seen Online Conference / Seminars of people who can't take time off work to travel but want to receive the information. Don't get me started with Online Gaming....Why aren't Game Developers not creating online games for SL Users???

What are your thoughts and ideas on this topic?

Thanks -
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Nyisis Narcissus wrote:

 

 

What are your thoughts and ideas on this topic?

 

Thanks -

My thoughts are that perhaps you haven't paid very much attention to sl over the least 12.5 years, or so.

All of what you have described has been done, or currently is being done.

Gaming, exists, in all kinds of forms, but it depends entirely on your interpretation of that word and what you're looking for.

Businesses have used sl, in numerous ways, for conferencing, collaboration, seminars, etc...

Universities and other educational organizations have used sl for educational purposes, including online learning, some still exist inworld too.

Computer design programs, or classes to discuss such, have been done by various different organizations as well.

What one can potentially take away from all of these experiences, and many more, is going to vary depending on the topic and the vested interest on both sides of the fence(facilitators, and the audience).

I highly recommend some searches, using whatever search you happen to enjoy, specifically looking into these topics. I suspect you will find more information than you know what to do with. You can search these forums too, but the web has far more information than these forums do. You can even find links to the old forums, where these kinds of things, and others, have been discussed.  A search will garener you a lot more info than anyone here on the forums can possibly give. It may even perhaps help you understand why some of those folks who chose to do the things you describe(and more) have chosen various other methods over utilizing sl( they can tell you why they stopped, we can only guess)

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"Online Learning, Seminars," there are if you look, there are also universites, UoNO being just one in SL,

"Gaming" in what way wagering is illegal.

" SL offer Computer Programming and Design Classes?" Other companies do. IBM is just one.

As for my thought, you clearly do not frequently visit SL.

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Nyisis Narcissus wrote:

 

Why haven't SL capitalized on Online Learning, Seminars, and Gaming?

It has, to the degree feasible.  For example, the first time I heard of Maya was inworld.  Someone (was it Autodesk?) had set up a staffed sim offering training.  I would have taken them up on it if they had the subscription options they have now.  This was years ago, though . . . and I wasn't willing to shell out over $3k to try out 3D modeling in a pre-mesh SL.  

There have been other online learning opportunities in SL.  Various universities and organizations have held discussions and seminars here.  

Why haven't some of the companies vested in SL offer Computer Programming and Design Classes?

Which companies are we talking about?  Autodesk?  Blender Foundation?  Adobe?  Pixologic?  Major online learning sites?  Consider SL's limitations.  For a class you could reasonably only have about 40 people in a single place.  Add in the trick of using multiple sims, maybe 200.  Then you have the issue of still having to have everyone see in real time what you're doing and . . . well . . . might as well keep their current formats.

Why haven't we seen Online Conference / Seminars of people who can't take time off work to travel but want to receive the information.

I'd love to see a simulcast of things like Adobe Max in SL.  But, are there really enough SL users who would be interested enough to make it worth anyone's time?  Leaving aside interest, are there enough SL users who are at a level that allows them to truly benefit?  

Don't get me started with Online Gaming....Why aren't Game Developers not creating online games for SL Users???

I don't think that's practical in SL because of the limitations above, plus insufficient levels of customization, having to learn an entirely different system/language, and more.

What are your thoughts and ideas on this topic?

I think a lot of what you're hoping for is better addressed by Project Sansar.  From what I've read/heard, plans are in place to allow far greater numbers of people to gather due to instancing, environments will be more customizable, a standard language (C#, which is already used in a very popular game engine) will be used, and a few other things that I hope will attract game devs and a few other communities.  

 

Thanks -


 

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Nyisis Narcissus wrote:

I have my Friend.....but what good has come of it.SL is lifeless and not engaging any more. I want to know how can we use these tools to revitalize the popularity ofSL.

Clearly, you haven't, or you would know that these things have both been done, as well as the fact that they are currently still being used.

You think sl is lifeless, that's your opinion. It is not an opinion I, or even others, share. What you deem lifeless, others may not. Perhaps sl is not your cup of tea anymore, or never was, which is perfectly fine. That is, after all, a fact of life, right?

If you want to revitalize, or offer input as to how to revitalize, you might want to actually give input, and ideas, rather than suggesting that the things which have been done or are being done, aren't. I'm all for innovation, new ideas, even ways to revitalize old ideas. Your OP suggests none of those things, though, it questions why the "ideas" you seem to have aen't being or haven't been implemented, when they have.

There are loads of threads all over the forums with great ideas, and some not so great ones, for keeping sl alive, as it were. I suggest starting there if you're actually interested in the topic.

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Linden Lab gives most of the development of the world to the users, they give them freedom to create seminars, teach classes about anything, make games, hold conferences, do whatever they want, its up to them to decide whatever content exists in SL, Linden Lab just provide the tools and observe how the users want to develop this world.

maybe those things exist in SL, its the intention of the user to find them and make use of them.

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Nyisis Narcissus wrote:

 All I'm asking is, What can users do revitalize SL?

The same thing(s) they're already doing..find something they like or are interested in, see if it exists inworld already, and if not, create it.

Sitting around waiting for LL or some other company to do it, is an exercise in futility. If you find sl lacking, you have to first figure out why it's lacking, to you, and then see what you, as an individual can do about your experience to make it better. The problem is, you have to have ideas, and while they may start with "it's a lifeless..insert whatever you want here", they can't exactly end there, now can they? lol 

I don't know if you consider your OP to be "ideas", but if so, they are very misguided, because those things exist, and are not lacking. So I suppose a better question would be "What do YOU think sl needs, and how can YOU find it/create it/contribute to it?", rather than wondering why things that do exist, don't exist, lol.

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Nyisis Narcissus wrote:

But why aren't users utilizing these tools to create a thriving and viable SL. All I'm asking is, What can users do revitalize SL?

I'm putting together a variety of ideas that blend in world mechanics with roleplaying and real world learning and skills. I have already run small events that do this, and they seem to have been well received. I've also contacted shop owners with words of encouragement to bring out some new products and talked in groups I am in about being more active. Lastly, I am trying to come up with a model for creating viable and more affordable roleplaying spaces for others to use without needing to rent a sim for hundreds of dollars a month.

Your move.

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Nyisis Narcissus wrote:

I realize this.....I didnt just drop into Second Life tonight. But why aren't users utilizing these tools to create a thriving and viable SL. All I'm asking is, What can users do revitalize SL?

You haven't named anything I would consider a tool.

And speaking of the things you mentioned in your op: Why do you consider them "revitalizing" for Second Life? I certainly don't. All of them sound boring or useless to me.

I don't care for business meetings, unless one of them happens to be part of my job...and then its exactly that: work, which I do not do for fun. And if I had to pick an online service to hold a long distance meeting, I'll chose skype or google hangout. Both are more suited for the job.

In general I do no really care for the presence of companies in SL, because I don't care for real life advertising, when I'm here. Also I wouldn't consider a programming class "revitalizing" for Second Life. Despite the fact that it may interest some people, its not the...most engaging or entertaining activity either.

And online gameing...well, this is again something that, if you really want it, is better be done outside of SL. With software that is entirely designed to be a well rounded game by professionals.

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Nyisis Narcissus wrote:

I've been an Online Users since it's Inception: GEnie / Sierra / delphi / CompuServe / Prodigy / Aol.

 

That brings back memories, Right!!! I remember brilliant & innovated individual's who created these online worlds that help connect people from all walks of life. Places Like: INmagination Online / Active World / Fandom / Sims Online / SL.

 

Most of these Worlds except for a few have come and gone. I do realize as technology advances it creates glitches and lag leaving these platforms virtually obsolete .

 

Why haven't SL capitalized on Online Learning, Seminars, and Gaming? Why haven't some of the companies vested in SL offer Computer Programming and Design Classes? Why haven't we seen Online Conference / Seminars of people who can't take time off work to travel but want to receive the information. Don't get me started with Online Gaming....Why aren't Game Developers not creating online games for SL Users???

 

What are your thoughts and ideas on this topic?

 

Thanks -

Because as technology has advanced it created glitches aggravated unsolveable existing glitches and lag leaving the platform virtually obsolete.

The basic architecture of Second Life wasn't designed for large scale and/or mission critical purposes and is extremely high-maintenance and inefficient. Making major changes to the architecture will cause disruption in much of the existing world which Linden Lab can't directly fix because they didn't make the vast majority of items in-world in the first place. That's why they're building an entirely new platform now.

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

The basic architecture of Second Life wasn't designed for large scale and/or mission critical purposes and is extremely high-maintenance and inefficient.


What is IS good at (and amazws me) is being able to take all the poorly scripted novice code, twisted meshes, massive textures and put them all together on the fly. 

 

 

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Thats not why LL are building a new platform at all,

Also "it is extremely high-maintenance and inefficient" where on Earth did you get that idea from?

As for laggy, 99% of that is on the users end with cheap comps, cheap broad band and wifi, who then shout SL is laggy.

If people think that and if  the new platform goes online will be smooth and  bug free then they are deluding themselves.

There is also a muttering from LL that the new platform will be subscription based.

EDITED for grammer.

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steph Arnott wrote:

Thats not why LL are building a new platform at all,

Also "it is extremely high-maintenance and inefficient" where on Earth did you get that idea from?

As for laggy, 99% of that is on the users end with cheap comps, cheap broad band and wifi, who then shout SL is laggy.

If people think that and if  the new platform goes online will be smooth and  bug free then they are deluding themselves.

There is also a muttering from LL that the new platform will be subscription based.

EDITED for grammer.

Let's see - let's say I want to change my socks. In Second Life this means...

1) I first log into an account server, which will connect me to a simulator.

2) Now I have a constant two-way connection to  a separate server in Arizona as it simulates a 256 x 256 square meter patch of land 45 times a second. These simulations run 24 hours a day, every day at a minimum of 8 simulations per second even if nobody is actually accessing it.

3) Now that I'm connected to a simulator, let's talk socks. Now I have to connect to a completely separate asset server to retrieve my socks. The asset server sends the sock info to the simulator, which then sends it back to me and anyone else in that 256 x 256 square meter area.

Does this...

sound efficient...

to you?

Bear in mind that every 256 x 256 square meter section of Second Life requires a separate simulation with a fixed location. These simulations are usually restarted at least once a week, taking them offline for unpredictable amounts of time. Each simulation runs constantly even when completely empty and can't hold more than 100 avatars at a time at the very most.

You'll probably reply with things like, "Oh, OpenSim has bigger regions! High Fidelity can handle 200 avatars in a region!" La - di - dah. 200 people is only impressive compared to Second Life now - if your high-school football game only drew 200 attendees you'd be living in a pretty sad little town.

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" has been patches over patches" so, the banking sytem is the same and yet it still works. UK NHS has spent £1,5 billion writing new coded system and it is useless and has been scraped. Some times the devil you know is far better than the one you think will be great.

"choose prims to build things" there not prims they are mesh.

" Sansar is gonna be all mesh" you can do that in SL. Mesh is flat and no depth any way.

"Sansar will use C++" no it will not.

BTW If you happy to pay a subscription fee just to be there good luck.

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" has been patches over patches" so, the banking sytem is the same and yet it still works. UK NHS has spent £1,5 billion writing new coded system and it is useless and has been scraped. Some times the devil you know is far better than the one you think will be great.

yeah, but we are talkiing here about code to wirte a software that needs to be modernizing periodically or its gonna be left behind by competitors.

"choose prims to build things" there not prims they are mesh.

I'm talking about the distinction that Linden Lab makes when it talks about Mesh and prim objects.

" Sansar is gonna be all mesh" you can do that in SL. Mesh is flat and no depth any way.

but they don't want any prims in their new virtual world, mesh proved to be more effective.

"Sansar will use C++" no it will not.

the point is that they are going to use a more standard language inbstead of inventing a new one.

BTW If you happy to pay a subscription fee just to be there good luck.

I am skeptic about that business model too, when SL first started it used that system of income, some say that it kept griefers away, that it was a better world, so they are trying to turn back that error of having free accounts, also they want to turn back the error of making the viewer open source.

they are remaking "LindenWorld"/"Second Life"/"Sansar" without the errors they commited, for that they have to start from the ground up. maybe making a software more scalable and adaptable to all the possible challenges that lie ahead.

they are the masters of virtual worlds right now, maybe they think that if Second Life didn't have the erros that it have now, it would be more mainstream.

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