A Left-Handed Look at Sansar

[irihapeti]

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ChinRey wrote:

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Except for on tiny little detail: that surtvey was so clumsily done the "results" has no value whatsoever.

 

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heres a list

[A, B, C, D]

pick 3

+

30 * 3 picks later 1 of them comes 4th

300 * 3 picks later 1 of them comes 4th 

3000 * 3 picks later 1 of them comes 4th

30,000 * 3 picks later 1 of them comes 4th

 

 

 

 

[ChinRey]

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irihapeti wrote:

heres a list

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Oh well, I guess I have to explain what I mean then - prepare for a loooooong post.

 

Reality check first:

• More than 35% of SL's users are "Extremely likely" to recommend SL to their friends (according to the post at the Firestorm site - Canary Beck doesn't use exactly those words on her blog). How is LL able to cope with this flood of newcomers to Second Life?
• 35% of the SL'ers are Travellers/Explorers. Where do they travel and what do they explore?
• 3% are newcomers. No wait, 3% are newcomers who somehow have heard about third party viewers and decided/been told to switch to Firestorm. Is there anybody who can possibly believe that?
• About 7% are "not at all likely" to recommend SL to their friends. That looks credible if we take the question in its literal meaning but many - including apparently the Firestorm team - actually interpret it as a popularity question: "do you like SL?" No? Why are they still here???
• The dispersion curve is highly polarized - answers tend to be either very positive or very negative with relatively little in between. That's a well known warning signal to anybody who deals with statistics.

If you actually look at the numbers, not just the headlines, and engage a braincell or two, it's easy to see that this is all wrong. And if you look at the methodology, it's also easy to see why:

• No protection against multiple replies - you could go to the Firestorm site and take the survery hundreds of times if you wanted to. If I understand correctly, there wasn't even a basic IP check, but even if it was, it wouldn't have been nearly enough.
• No attempt to reach a representative selection of users - The survey was promoted on the Firestorm startup screen so it would only reach Firestorm users, it would only reach those who still read those advertisements on the startup screens and even for some reason still click on them. That's a rare breed indeed. Ok, whether the Firestorm users can be regarded as representative of SL users as a whole is up to discussion but the other two factors alone are enough to say that the people who took the survey aren't.
• The classic questionoid - Big, serious companies often ask their customers "would your recommend us to your friends" and people who don't understand statistics often mistake that for a survey. It isn't, it's a PR trick - just a slightly sneaky way to suggest they recommend the product to their friends. The answers are never taken seriously by the company. If it's a serious company that is - some of course use that question as a safe way to get confirmation of their excellence. As far as I know, the question is never used in serious statistic surveys and for good reasons. It's ambiguous for a start. And the answer doesn't really mean anything anyway.
• No control questions - I'm sure you've taken a serious survey or two in your life. Did you notice how it kept asking basically the same question over and over again in different ways? That's because people have a depressing tendency not to answer straight. They may misunderstand the question the first time, they may need a little bit of "warm up" before they really get into the topic, they have a tendency to polarize their first answer - usually they tend to answer more positive than they really mean but sometimes it's the other way round. etc., etc., etc.

I'm not an expert on statistics, I'm sure somebody who is could fill out the lists with lots of other objections. These are just the points every layman (and laywoman) should know about the topic and I think it's more than enough to reject this survey.

One of the most basic principles in computing, statistics and all other kinds of data analysis is GIGO - Garbage In, Garbage Out. And here we have a classic example how wrong things can go when we forget that.

 (Edit: the post didn't end up nearly as long as I feared but I still hope I haven't bored anybody to death with it )

[irihapeti]

3000 people who are in the most engaged group of SL residents

pick from the list what you do in SL

building and scripting were picked a distant second

however we look at these numbers, is still a distant second

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suppose a survey

go to your SL home and answer the following questions: Yes or No

1) did you make your own skin?

2) did you make your own hair?

3) did you make your own shoes?

go outside

4) did you make the tree growing in your garden ?

5) did you make the vehicle in your driveway ?

6) did you make your house ?

7) did you make any of the textures on your house ?

go inside

8) did you make any of the furniture in the front room ?

9) on the furniture did you make any of the textures ?

10 on the furniture did you make any of the animations ?

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when add these up then would be lucky to end up with 1 in 4 people who would answer more than half of these Yes

 

[ChinRey]

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irihapeti wrote:

3000 people who are in the most engaged group of SL residents

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Best guesstimate about 2500. But we'll never know for sure. The way the "survey" was executed it's fairly certain that there were people who responded multiple times. How many of the replies were duplicates? Somewhere between 10 and 50 percent maybe - can't really narrow it down more than that although the abnormal number of extreme answers can give us a clue.

[irihapeti]

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ChinRey wrote:

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irihapeti wrote:

3000 people who are in the most engaged group of SL residents

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Best guesstimate about 2500. But we'll never know for sure. The way the "survey" was executed it's fairly certain that there were people who responded multiple times. How many of the replies were duplicates? Somewhere between 10 and 50 percent maybe - can't really narrow it down more than that although the abnormal number of extreme answers can give us a clue.

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3000 * 50% = 1500

3000 * 90% = 2700

3000 * guess = 2500

heres a list. pick 3

 

[Darrius Gothly]

Sign on prior boss' wall: Perception is 90% of Reality

I mention this up front because it is at the core of our disconnect with LL's plans .. I think. It seems the current perception within the high-tech business community is that only higher skilled, higher performance, higher priced people are worthy customers.

This is changing in some quarters as evidenced by Microsoft's unstoppable dumbing down of Windows 10 to where people with actual computer knowledge can no longer use it reliably. But for the most part, start-up ventures like Sansar launch from the premise that the only way to get real money is to cater to the high-end customer.

Those customers, the high-end folks with good skills and all the tools needed, will have to make some very tough decisions. If they do climb on board the Sansar wagon and devote their skills to make products for the .. whatever it becomes .. will there be enough customers for them to recoup their investment?

Second Life makes that initial "jump or not" decision pretty easy. Everyone can jump in, usually at very little cost. Most flounder and sink right away, chalk it up to experience .. and move along. Some percentage stick it out and reach their own plateau of skill and involvement.

It's a free-for-all. A dirty, down in the mud, flinging and swinging scramble at times. But everyone gets to play. Cranking the starting bar up to a professional, or even a "skilled amateur" level will tilt the scale so drastically that the entire dynamic will change irrevocably.

The Game Modding community is perhaps the business model they're targeting .. I just don't know. But if that same sort of market performance and return are their goals, they will need something with massive appeal (like games have) to spark enough interest to reach break-even. As others have pointed out clearly, the competition for development environments is already very crowded with much more worthy opponents.

My "read" is that LL has the talent in-house to create a really stellar Second Life Redux. But they do not have the talent nor the time to create something that can stand against Unreal or any of the other 3D engines. It's good to dream, but when the money starts flowing out .. those dreams better be REAL solid.

[Sassy Romano]

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

 

The Game Modding community is perhaps the business model they're targeting .. I just don't know. But if that same sort of market performance and return are their goals, they will need something with massive appeal (like games have) to spark enough interest to reach break-even. As others have pointed out clearly, the competition for development environments is already very crowded with much more worthy opponents.

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This is where I suspect they're going but i'm wondering if they're hoping that the pull of Oculus Rift will be their edge.

However...that's one hell of a niche piece of equipment and for me, unless my avatar is animated according to my real world skeleton, i'm not really interested in a 3D VR headset, watching pre-canned animations.

Similarly, my Leap Motion sensor sits idle on the shelf because other than 30 minutes playing "air harp" in the lounge, it's just another niche gadget.

We shall see when the big day arrives.

[Darrius Gothly]

Oooohh .. now there's a string I never pluck enough ... Fancy Gadgets.

Why are mobile phones so popular? Cuz they do lots of stuff .. LOTS of stuff .. and don't get in your way.

What does a VR Headset do? Umm .. like one thing, kinda fuzzy and gives me a headache too. And it gets in my way.

I really hope that's not their "Ace in the hole". Cuz if it is, I'm gonna beat 'em hands down with my pair of two's.

[ChinRey]

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

But for the most part, start-up ventures like Sansar launch from the premise that the only way to get real money is to cater to the high-end customer.

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Very well said and I'd like to broaden the perspective of it a little bit. In an interview a while ago Ebbe LInden said it should be cheaper for people to "pitch a tent" in virtual space and in a previous thread here he said that sooner or later somebody would make a virtual world for the millions. I think he's right but it's hard to predict the future. What's important is that the CEO of Linden Lab believes it and yet there is absolutely nothing in what we've heard about Sansar so far that indicates that they are going for that market. That simply doesn't make sense. It must mean that they either are completely missing the target they're aiming for or they have some really, really good cards they haven't shown yet.

(Edit: sorry for mixing metaphors. It's just one of my many abd habits.)

 

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Sassy Romano wrote:

This is where I suspect they're going but i'm wondering if they're hoping that the pull of Oculus Rift will be their edge.

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Oh no, you must be wrong there! LL would never dream of violating their own TOS and it clearly says that gambling is not allowed.

[Pamela Galli]

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irihapeti wrote:

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

And therein lay the real snub:

Geeks:

But we made this for you!

Suits:

 Yeah and we paid you for it. Now go away. We have to make money.

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maybe. altho (:

in the Scripting forums on here theres  3 people who pretty much answer 90% of all the questions ever asked about scripting

each of them initially had expressed their disquiet about Sansar not using LSL. So what they said was that if is C# (which they havent used before) then they are going off to learn it. Now. They not waiting for Sansar and learn it then

in the Mesh forums on here is also same. People in there also are really pushing their skills learning, so that when Sansar comes they will be ready

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was a article over on Hamlets blog. Was a person, like our scripters and meshies who arent professionals, a dedicated amateur. And sure they make some little money out of SL making what they do. Stuff they would make even if they never got any money. They do it bc they like doing it. Is lots of other people like this also, out there in the wide world. Doing game mods and stuff like that

but anyways, this person who commented, done a rant about their frustration building on the SL platform, that they had reached a point where they couldnt grow any further. To grow their skills, to make stuff go extended, they were now at the point where they were making convoluted hacks, and having to use insane workflows to do this

they saw Sansar as a chance to being able cut out of workflows all the hackery and convolutations

then another person responded and made a spirited defence for the amateur builder. Which I actual then posted an agreement with

then the first person reply saying they are a actual amateur as well. A very frustrated one, and basically said: please LL dont cripple Sansar like you did SL

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so I am now agree with the first person

i still got SL to go oldschool style with prims in if I want. I still got a own private OS continent now as well where I can do same. So I have come to accept now that insisting on having 3 things to primmage in, is maybe being a bit greedy

given that my peers, builders and scripters, are not only ready to move on, but are also actively building their skills for this. Something I am not doing

+

also

theres a zillion people building with prims in Minecraft. Many of them are growing their skills as well. They want to go somewhere to do this

  

eta: turpos

  

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I missed that article or comments -- do you remember the name or topic of the post?

[irihapeti]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

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I missed that article or comments -- do you remember the name or topic of the post?

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my journey to changing my mind started here:

http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2015/12/sl-linden-lab-haters-gonna-hate.html#comments

was a comment by a person named P.Gibbs

then Vivienne S. respond to P.Gibbs. Spirited defense of amateur builders

then I agree with Vivienne

then P.Gibbs respond to Vivienne

other people also in the comments about this and that

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Hamlet then later feature P.Gibbs as Comment of the Week, here:

http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2015/12/second-life-prim-era-creation.html

more people in these comments about this and that

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i started to think about it from my pov. I realise that I dont actual learn anything anymore, I dont grow my skills anymore. I am stuck in the past dreaming of primmage and I am happy there. I just dont want to change, to grow. I dont want to put the work [in anymore]. I got lazy (:

P.Gibbs and lots of other people do want to grow. They do want to put the work in. Unlike me. So I am now on their side about this

for sure can say what about the newbies ? We got Minecraft, got SL, got OS, got Torque3D and lots of others for learning the basic basics

 

eta: [in ]

[Pamela Galli]

Ah, I did read that :-)  I should go re-read as I didn't remember it that way.

Certainly it is true that you never run out of motivation to grow skills in SL or Sansar.  I think of the thouscands of centuries in which human beings had a few basic things to learn, mostly by the time they were eight or so, and that was it. Nice in a way, but could get boring. I really do not always enjoy feeling like I have to keep learning -- I am very untechnical -- but what else better do I have to do with my time?

[irihapeti]

i think LL would in hindsight kick themselves by not doing a SL V2.0 by increments back in the day. When M came for example would have been the time, in hindsight

instead of doubling down on what they already had, and then trying stuff like V2 viewer which didnt add anything really. Which then lost them a whole lot of time and money, a new CEO even, having to fix it

in hindsight had LL gone with a SL 2.0 incremental strategy then we would of had something kinda Torque3D-like by now. Is pretty good is T3D, inworld modding-wise for us lesser mortals, while at the same time allows the advanced people to build sims/experiences from scratch

+

i think that if LL were even now to build Sansar to even just a T3D standard (just a bit more shiny) then will be pretty good, given that they (LL) know how to manage the massive multi-player environment with a economy, which is the actual hard part I think, and is their advantage over other game engine builder companies

eta tpyos   

[irihapeti]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

Ah, I did read that :-)  I should go re-read as I didn't remember it that way.

Certainly it is true that you never run out of motivation to grow skills in SL or Sansar.  I think of the thouscands of centuries in which human beings had a few basic things to learn, mostly by the time they were eight or so, and that was it. Nice in a way, but could get boring. I really do not always enjoy feeling like I have to keep learning -- I am very untechnical -- but what else better do I have to do with my time?

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you got nothing better to do with your time ok

you keep making all that nice furniture ok (:

bc if you dont then everybody would be sitting on a wooden box, like me. Still wondering what colour to paint it (:

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over the street a while ago was a chat about vehicles. I said same over there. If you guys stop making advanced vehicles then I still be flying round on my plywood box, making brrmmming noises. Which is quite fun, at least for me, but yeah! (:

  

[irihapeti]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

Ah, I did read that :-)  I should go re-read as I didn't remember it that way.

 

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i just pick up on this part specifically

when Hamlet reposted as Comment of the Week he change the emphasis in the article title and in his take on the comment post, which was not what P.Gibbs was actual saying

Hamlet does that quite a lot. Misunderstands quite often. But then I am the same like that, so I am forgive him (: 

[Darrius Gothly]

Once upon a time, in a corporation far far away ...

Management was given the proposal to take one of our more popular devices and shrink it down to a (mostly) single-chip solution. It would take about 18 months to hit production after the process was begun, with full stable delivery in 24-30 months.

Management said "No .. takes too much time."

(Father Time cranks things forward some .. 4 years later)

Suddenly we are getting trounced by a competitor with a (mostly) one-chip solution. Management gets mad because engineering didn't foresee this happening and didn't have something in production already.

When it's purely and only hindsight, we can kick ourselves and promise to do better. But when it wasn't just hindsight, when it was (for whatever reason) acting in a manner oblivious to many outside voices .. then it becomes more of an issue. There might be some of that involved in why there were shakeups in the upstairs offices at LL. I haven't a clue so it's only conjecture.

I will say that the current crop of 3D Engines are looking pretty phenomenal. If a company were to use one of them in a MMO-kinda way, tack on beginner tools and some sort of economy ... 

[irihapeti]

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

I will say that the current crop of 3D Engines are looking pretty phenomenal. If a company were to use one of them in a MMO-kinda way, tack on beginner tools and some sort of economy ... 

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yes

dunno if you had a look at Torque3D but is pretty good. The terrain and inworld object and character/avatar editing/modding tools are really good. Is MIT license source code as well

back it into a OpenSim world server (BSD license source code)

would be a quite good alternative to OpenSim that is still bound to LL in lots of ways

i think that whats actual needed with OpenSim is a viewer that is not GPL, T3D can provide that. Non-GPL means that indie programmers can make plugins for it and get paid for them on a continuing basis, thru not having to release their plugin source codes. Modellers and inworld scripters (TorqueScript) can get paid for their models and inworld scripts same like always

 

 

[BlueTrianon]

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

 

I will say that the current crop of 3D Engines are looking pretty phenomenal. If a company were to use one of them in a MMO-kinda way, tack on beginner tools and some sort of economy ... 

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That's my impression of part of the point of Sansar from everything I've read/seen so far.  I'm not the only one, either.  If I understand correctly, Sansar would then be more than just a gaming solution, but a viable alternative to current technologies for things like arch viz.  Since LL just happened to have hosted a preview for an architectural association . . . that led me to believe I might be on the right track regarding what they're trying to do.

It will require people to actually learn.  As I said in a prior post, I believe people can start on that now while they're waiting for their access to open.  I know what I think the logical preparation is, and if I'm wrong, well, I've learned several new skills that I can apply to other platforms anyway.

[Perrie Juran]

So many theories, so little time......

There certainly are a potpourrie of ideas out there now about the Next Generation Platform, codename Sansar, based on the scant information we have been provided, all of which we are weighing against our knowledge of Second Life and VR in general.  It can be a lot of fun speculating about whatexactly Sansar is going to be.  I wonder how much Ebbe chuckles and/or groans as he reads our speculations.

Whne I first arrived in Second Life there was Phillip's vision, "I'm building a world" (I forget the exact quote now).  I arrived and there was a World all ready for me to explore.  I came primarily to socialize.  I think today that is what the vast majority come here to do. (I'm include roleplay in this socialization in this post).  I think those who desire to build are a minority now, a major change from the early days.  When Stellatr Sunshine (the first resident) arrived she built.  A cabin if I recall correcly and the climeable Beanstalk.  (One of these years I'll get around to climbing it).

After I was here a while I did get interested in building and started abusing prims, seeing what I could do with them.  There are warrants out for my arrest on several Sims for "unusual cruelty to a primitive."  But right now I have no desire to be learning any of these 3D modeling programs like Maya or Blender, etc.

Who the Next Gereration Platform will be attractive to, who will be attracted to it is up for grabs.  One of the reasons for SL's success was the ability for people to make money here.  This may be a bigger reason for SL's success than what we have given credit for.  And it is this that Ebbe and the BoD is banking on.  

[Pamela Galli]

Well I can tell you one thing that no one, but no one at LL, has the faintest, foggiest clue about. And that is customer service. I spent the entire day working and fielding IMs, many many of them, about all sorts of things, and not one about any kind of product defect, mostly about general basic navigation of SL and home/furnishings ownership. People who make game assets I am pretty sure do not do what business owners in SL do. Here is a typical example which might be from just now when I logged out, and keep in mind I might have been working and talking to others throught it all, and note the duration:

 

[2015/12/14 15:10] Nice Customer: hello i have your kitchen and dining room i got hyour christmas dinner (turkey) i see the cook holiday dinner box next to the foods what is this? i know its to cook the meal but what is the difference in the three boxes. i see here one is to prepare, which i understand, but you ahve two others that say cook hioliday dinner, what is the difference in the two? thank you Lannette

[2015/12/14 15:14] Pamela Galli: One is for mesh ovens, one for non mesh

[2015/12/14 15:14] Nice Customer: hiii

[2015/12/14 15:14] Nice Customer: ty for responding

[2015/12/14 15:14] Pamela Galli: yw

[2015/12/14 15:14] Nice Customer: so read the box, when all fails , read the box

[2015/12/14 15:14] Nice Customer: lol

[2015/12/14 15:14] Nice Customer: ty

[2015/12/14 15:14] Pamela Galli: haha it helps

[2015/12/14 15:14] Nice Customer: lmao

[2015/12/14 15:14] Pamela Galli: the islands all fit, but not the ovens

[2015/12/14 15:14] Nice Customer: i always had your kitchen and houses

[2015/12/14 15:15] Pamela Galli: ty :-)

[2015/12/14 15:15] Nice Customer: but i just got married and boughtr a new kitchen and dining

[2015/12/14 15:15] Nice Customer: and my wife loves it

[2015/12/14 15:15] Pamela Galli: congrats!

[2015/12/14 15:15] Nice Customer: i cooked thanksgiving and i didint burn the turkey

[2015/12/14 15:15] Nice Customer: haha

[2015/12/14 15:15] Nice Customer: so i get to cook christmas

[2015/12/14 15:15] Nice Customer: ty

[2015/12/14 15:15] Nice Customer: last year we had a kitchen fire

[2015/12/14 15:15] Nice Customer: (

[2015/12/14 15:16] Pamela Galli: how nice!

[2015/12/14 15:16] Nice Customer: lol

[2015/12/14 15:16] Nice Customer: we love the shrimp scampi

[2015/12/14 15:16] Pamela Galli: :-D

[2015/12/14 15:17] Nice Customer: i had left the stored

[2015/12/14 15:17] Nice Customer: one will say mesh?

[2015/12/14 15:17] Nice Customer: wait both of them says mesh holiday dinner

[2015/12/14 15:18] Pamela Galli: They are both mesh dinners but one should say for mesh oven

[2015/12/14 15:19] Nice Customer: oh so i have to go make sure my oven is mesh

[2015/12/14 15:19] Nice Customer: ok gotcha

[2015/12/14 15:19] Nice Customer: i just bought the oven last monthg

[2015/12/14 15:19] Nice Customer: it might be mesh

[2015/12/14 15:19] Nice Customer: my old one was not mesh i dont think

[2015/12/14 15:19] Pamela Galli: My ovens are not for sale separately

[2015/12/14 15:20] Nice Customer: yea

[2015/12/14 15:20] Nice Customer: i got the whole hting

[2015/12/14 15:20] Nice Customer: mopnth ago but wasn't sure if it was mesh or not

[2015/12/14 15:20] Nice Customer: ok it is steeel mesh

[2015/12/14 15:20] Nice Customer: so i'm good

[2015/12/14 15:20] Pamela Galli: yep

[2015/12/14 15:20] Nice Customer: ty so muich for your help

[2015/12/14 15:20] Pamela Galli: yvw!

[2015/12/14 15:21] Nice Customer: happy holiday

[2015/12/14 15:21] Nice Customer: merry christmas that is

[2015/12/14 15:21] Pamela Galli: you too!

[2015/12/14 15:33] Nice Customer: miss gali

[2015/12/14 15:34] Nice Customer: i have a question

[2015/12/14 15:34] Nice Customer: i bought 2=6 turkey dinner

[2015/12/14 15:34] Nice Customer: i got it home

[2015/12/14 15:34] Nice Customer: it is too home for my talbe

[2015/12/14 15:34] Nice Customer: table

[2015/12/14 15:35] Pamela Galli: too home?

[2015/12/14 15:36] Nice Customer: ok

[2015/12/14 15:36] Nice Customer: i got my purchase honme sorry

[2015/12/14 15:36] Nice Customer: its for rectanguloar table

[2015/12/14 15:36] Nice Customer: i have a small table for four

[2015/12/14 15:37] Nice Customer: what i purchase i though was 2-6

[2015/12/14 15:37] Nice Customer: not asking for money back

[2015/12/14 15:37] Nice Customer: i just purchased wrong

[2015/12/14 15:37] Nice Customer: but you have for square seating 4 chairs?

[2015/12/14 15:38] Pamela Galli: so what you need is for a table for 4?

[2015/12/14 15:38] Pamela Galli: but you got for 6?

[2015/12/14 15:38] Nice Customer: yes

[2015/12/14 15:38] Nice Customer: it said 4-6

[2015/12/14 15:38] Nice Customer: i thought that meaqnt for my taBLE

[2015/12/14 15:38] Nice Customer: you have one for table of four?

[2015/12/14 15:39] Pamela Galli: I will send the right one in just a bit

[2015/12/14 15:39] Pamela Galli: you bought this: MESH TURKEY DINNER FOR 2, 4, 6 Rectangular DINNER PARTYTable

[2015/12/14 15:39] Nice Customer: so i did buy the wrong one?

[2015/12/14 15:39] Pamela Galli: Do you have a rectangular table?

[2015/12/14 15:39] Nice Customer: it is square

[2015/12/14 15:39] Pamela Galli: wrong one

[2015/12/14 15:40] Nice Customer: (

[2015/12/14 15:40] Nice Customer: kk

[2015/12/14 15:42] Second Life: Inventory item offered

[2015/12/14 15:42] Pamela Galli: right one

[2015/12/14 15:43] Nice Customer: mesh turkey dinner for table for 4

[2015/12/14 15:43] Nice Customer: ok ty

[2015/12/14 15:43] Nice Customer: can i send the otehr back

[2015/12/14 15:50] Nice Customer: pamela, i'm sorry to bother you again, it still has table for 6

[2015/12/14 15:50] Nice Customer: when i lay out table for 4 it puts out 4 but still strip for 6

[2015/12/14 15:51] Nice Customer: its set for rectangular not square

[2015/12/14 15:53] Pamela Galli: copy and paste this into inventory search: 4 BOXED

[2015/12/14 16:00] Nice Customer: i dont understand

[2015/12/14 16:01] Pamela Galli: at the top of inventory is a box where you can type or paste search terms

[2015/12/14 16:02] Pamela Galli: 4 boxed should show the box I just sent

[2015/12/14 16:02] Pamela Galli: in the Recent tab

[2015/12/14 16:02] Nice Customer: ok

[2015/12/14 16:02] Nice Customer: i did that

[2015/12/14 16:02] Nice Customer: i get 4 boxed

[2015/12/14 16:03] Nice Customer: 3 of them

[2015/12/14 16:03] Pamela Galli: one is turkey

[2015/12/14 16:03] Nice Customer: well all threee is turkey

[2015/12/14 16:04] Nice Customer: mesh turkey dinner for for dinner party table for 4 boxed it called

[2015/12/14 16:04] Pamela Galli: yes

[2015/12/14 16:05] Nice Customer: i have it out right now

[2015/12/14 16:05] Nice Customer: its too long for table

[2015/12/14 16:05] Nice Customer: when i ask for it to be set out

[2015/12/14 16:06] Nice Customer: it set out not to fit the table

[2015/12/14 16:06] Nice Customer: it is set out to fit two on one side and two on other side

[2015/12/14 16:06] Nice Customer: my talbe is on each end of table

[2015/12/14 16:07] Pamela Galli: Nice Customer, you need to open the box for 4 and copy the contents to inventory

[2015/12/14 16:09] Nice Customer: delete everything first

[2015/12/14 16:11] Nice Customer: ok that worked

[2015/12/14 16:12] Nice Customer: ty and sorry for the trouble

[2015/12/14 16:13] Pamela Galli: Happy to help :-)

 

Now, this is just the last CS discussion I might had before logging out, it is not one I cherry picked, just a typical discussion. And this one is as you see with a very nice customer. Not all are so nice. Some dont read the marketplace listing to see what they are buying (I am very clear about what is and is not included) and abuse me because they did not guess right.

I am not complaining -- after all I was a public school teacher -- but just stating that there is a lot more to running a SL business than making things and selling them. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Spica Inventor]

"It could only be a failure if it failed to meet its objectives.

Since we don't know what the objectives are, lack of inworld creation tools or cheap land may not be relevant.

I suspect many will be in for a surprise when they discover what and who sansar is aimed at."

 

Well, now we get more of a clue that Sansar will exist to serve the silver spoons even more so than SL did. (A prime reason why SL topped out or more accurately tapped out so early). All those wonderful things/philosophy's such as exclusivity, and elitism promotion in the most efficient way possible my discouraging the plebs and unwashed masses from participating and using up so called costly resources.

This all reminds me of the Ayn Rand book 'Atlas Shrugged' where all the Optimates (read silverspoons) had to move to their own island nation to find refuge away from the so called beggars, leachers, taxers of the rich and other tyrannous victimizers, pesterers and other evil undesirables constantly on their back right? so that they could finally live in 'well deserved' peace and comfort. In their own little higher grade and much better supported virtual reality avalon. And of course all the servants that silver spoons require to serve their needs will only be the high grade types.

It's a brave new virtual world, pleb. Keep your dreams to yourself.

Believe it or not, I'm all for it (the segregation) just as long as the much greater majority get our SL2 at a later date. Incorporate Blender inworld. Not as expensive as they want you to think, cheap land, and a sales tax driven economy.

Do you know if that's on the table, Sassy? SL2?

 

 

 

[Dresden]

 

---

Pamela Galli wrote:

Well I can tell you one thing that no one, but no one at LL, has the faintest, foggiest clue about. And that is customer service.

---

And they've no intention of learning about it... especially for Sansar.  Where, as Ebbe has already stated, users will basically be considered customers of those who create the "experiences".  Which leads one to believe that, from LL's perspective, only these so-called "experience providers" will be considered direct customers of LL.  Therefore, it is they (the "experience providers") who will be responsible for providing service to their customers, bypassing the need for LL to provide any service to anyone other than them.

Pretty nifty workaround, don't ya think?

...Dres

[Sassy Romano]

I can only speculate in my own mind as to what to expect.

Why even incorporate blender inworld though?  It doesn't make much sense.  Even though something like blender is open source, to integrate something which continues to evolve and get updates so frequently, would constantly be out of step with LL's take on it.

Who would look after bugs? which bugs? core bugs or integration bugs?

But the fundamental question is would it make it easier to use?  Nope not at all so where's the beneift?  I don't see any.

Inworld tools for something like 3D content creation really doesn't fit because by the time you've created a full fledged 3D modelling tool, the platform/viewer side just becomes a feature of the 3D modelling tool.

I'm not sure how you see things so polarized as "silver spoon" or plebs though, I'm not even understanding where that's coming from.  SL has no cost barrier to entry, free to play and all that...

What I am confident about expecting though is that anyone expecting just a bigger, prettier, cheaper upgrade from SL to SL2 is going to be very sorely disappointed.

 

[Anya Ristow]

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

One of the reasons for SL's success was the ability for people to make money here.  This may be a bigger reason for SL's success than what we have given credit for.

---

It got people into SL chasing far-fetched promises and made SL a place of redundant, low-quality crap in eyesore stores with traffic-faking bots, gamed marketplace, gamed events listings, gamed search, gamed classifieds, gamed map, creepy, non-responsive (bot) avatars to make newbies feel unwelcome, phony banks and stock exchanges, ad farms, spam, and creepy fake events in the pursuit of trivial amounts of tip money and side sales from tacky, laggy vendors. IMO "the ability for people to make money here" caused SL to fail.

 

[Pamela Galli]

---

Dresden wrote:

 

---

Pamela Galli wrote:

Well I can tell you one thing that no one, but no one at LL, has the faintest, foggiest clue about. And that is customer service.

---

And they've no intention of learning about it... especially for Sansar.  Where, as Ebbe has already stated, users will basically be considered customers of those who create the "experiences".  Which leads one to believe that, from LL's perspective, only these so-called "experience providers" will be considered direct customers of LL.  Therefore, it is

they

(the "experience providers") who will be responsible for providing service to

their

customers, bypassing the need for LL to provide any service to anyone other than

them

.

Pretty nifty workaround, don't ya think?

...Dres

---

Sounds about right, just more of the same -- except in SL you already have quite a lot of  ppl who want to create stuff AND play store. What I imagine for Sansar is that game asset creators will sell full perm wholesale to ppl who do want to play store/experience provider, which would mean far fewer CS requests about how to find things in inventory, etc.