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Juliana Lethdetter

historic map authorship

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Thought I'd crowd-source this one out to our Residents of a Certain Age:

Below is an example of a VERY early map of Second Life, dating from June 2003 (though not the earliest):



There are a handful of others like it, all dating to around the same period.  Because they are some of the first maps ever made of SL geography at the regional level, and because they bear the Lab logo and font, I have always assumed that they were made by the Lab, and authored by a Linden.  But it has been called to my attention recently that this IS an assumption;  I don't actually know for sure. 

I acquired the map in the picture as an in-world object from YadNe Monde's Junkyard in Sansara.  I also have copies of these maps as textures, uploaded by Oz Spade, who is the founder of the Second Life Historical Society group and the Second Life Historical Museum in Phobos region;  given that provenance, it seems likelier that he uploaded them to preserve them for posterity than that he was their author.

Anyone remember first-hand where these came from or specifically who made them?

 

 

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Juliana Lethdetter wrote:

Anyone remember first-hand where these came from or specifically who made them?

The one you could find at Yadni's was on a prim created by Ryan Linden so it's definitely an authentic, official LL map. It's likely Ryan made the texture too but hard to say for sure.

 

Binod Arbucle has done some great research on early SL maps and used to ahve a lot of information about them at his website.,slmaps.com. Unfortunately both he and the site seem to have vanished without a trace so that info is not avilable anymore. :(

His map museum at Boardman (http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Boardman/190/185/26) is is still there though and well worth a visit. No info there but at least you get to see three other early maps too. ^_^

 

Oh btw, if anybody wonders who Ryan Linden is: he was one of the ealriest Lindens. Officially he was chief of staff but he seems to have spent just as much time as a content creator - and a very good one too. He left LL with Philip Rosedale.

Oh, and if anybody are shifting through their Yadni collection trying to find that map: it wasn't suppsoed to be there at all actually. It's a forgotten rim hidden inside one of the telehubs ^_^

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ChinRey wrote:


Juliana Lethdetter wrote:

Anyone remember first-hand where these came from or specifically who made them?

The one you could find at Yadni's was on a prim created by Ryan Linden so it's definitely an authentic, official LL map. It's likely Ryan made the texture too but hard to say for sure.

Interesting!  I've never seen or heard of any copies created by Ryan Linden;  the specific one I cited was made by me from the Oz Spade textures, and the other ones in the collection that come from the Junkyard were created by YadNi Monde himself.  That's a pretty good confirmation of provenance as far as I'm concerned.

Bino Arbuckle is a friend;  I've spoken to him a few times over the past 3 years, and he's graciously shared such information and maps with me as he possessed at the time.  He's also a member of that self-same SL Historical Society.  I can't vouch for his whereabouts or the presence or absence of his website, though.

And you're right:  I should go look at his map museum in Boardman.

I'm interested in getting some clarification re: your remarks about "a forgotten rim inside one of the Telehubs."  I've got a parallel thread about this running over at SLUniverse, where Essence Lumin cites Daniel Voyager as having photographed this specific map at a copy of the Clanis Telehub in SL10B, citing a Nov/Dec 2003 date.  (I've also engaged in a discussion about why I think that date he cites is likely wrong--  but either way, it seems like what you're saying could be related.)

@Magnus Brody:   It's my pleasure!  You're very welcome.

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Juliana Lethdetter wrote:

Interesting!  I've never seen or heard of any copies created by Ryan Linden;  the specific one I cited was made by me from the Oz Spade textures, and the other ones in the collection that come from the Junkyard were created by YadNi Monde himself.


Oh, my fault! I completely forgot Yadni also "officially" had a set of old maps.

If you happen to have the Yadni collection, there is a set of three old telehubs there somewhere. Pull one of them apart (I think it was the Waterhead one but I may be wrong) and inside it you'll find that map with Ryan Linden as the creator. Obviosuly just a prim he included in the linkset by accident, hidden as it is, it served no purpose.

 

Edit: Daniel Voyager was right, it was the Clanis not the Waterhead telehub. I've sent you a copy of it inworld.

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There doesn't seem to be a way to edit my previous post, so just wanted to add:


Marianne McCann (on SLU forum) wrote:

Just because a prim was made by someone does not mean that the textures on the prim were created by the same person. Else I'm sure many can send you some TOS Violating LOLcubes "made" by Philip Linden...

She's right, of course. Given the context of what we're describing, the distribution of a map that everyone seems to be able to agree was official, I'm sure she means the griefer angle as anecdotal. But Alberto Forero/ Alberto Linden was cited in that discussion as one likely author of the documents. There's no foolproof way of determining (for example) whether he or someone else might have done the texture, or whether it was Ryan Linden himself who placed it on Ryan Linden's prim!

edit:  Whoops!  Cross post. :)  Got it!  Thank you!

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Juliana Lethdetter wrote:

There's no foolproof way of determining (for example) whether he or someone else might have done the texture...

Apart from asking LL of course. Maybe there'd be somebody there who'd be willing and able to answer. In any case, the early content Lindens worked so closely together they probably wouldn't always remember themselves exactly who did what.

There are two factors that points to Ryan as the most likely creator of the maps. He and Cory were by far the most active texture creators at the early Linden Lab staff and mapping seems to be more relevant for him in his official position at LL than it would have been for a content Linden.

Btw, it must have been Eric Linden who forgot that map inside the Clanis telehub. Ryan invented the telehub concept and I think he made the central structure common to all of them. But it was Eric who added all the extra bits specific to each location and it's in that part the map is hidden.

 

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I was able to contact Alberto Forero (the former Alberto Linden) through his account on Flickr, and he verified that he is the author of that map in particular, and all the maps in that similar style that were distributed by the Lab during that period.

Cool tidbit about Eric's role versus Ryan's in the creation of the telehubs.  I wonder about the version that Daniel encountered at SL10B, though--  in his picture, the map is clearly visible on the OUTSIDE of the hub, not hidden inside.  So that one was different in some fashion, or whomever placed it found the map inside and moved it out...

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about stuff that is kinda hidden

in the Governor Mansion Clementina is a time capsule. Creator is Ryan Linden, Owner is Jake Cellardoor. Date June 2003

in the capsule is quite a lot of stuff. One of the stuff is a texture named: "first hour of beta - new grid"

have always wanted to see what is this texture, as (seems to me maybe dunno for sure) it could be the first snapshot of SL ever taken

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Juliana Lethdetter wrote:

I was able to contact Alberto Forero (the former Alberto Linden) through his account on Flickr, and he verified that he is the author of that map in particular, and all the maps in that similar style that were distributed by the Lab during that period.

Wow, that's great! ^_^

Alberto Linden was involved in the telhub design too - he made the circular pads around them, possibly other details too - so he may be able to shed some light on the forgotten map at Clanis.

 


Juliana Lethdetter wrote:

Cool tidbit about Eric's role versus Ryan's in the creation of the telehubs.  I wonder about the version that Daniel encountered at SL10B, though--  in his picture, the map is clearly visible on the OUTSIDE of the hub, not hidden inside.  So that one was different in some fashion, or whomever placed it found the map inside and moved it out...

Most likely the latter. The 2003 map would have been way outdated by the time the telehubs were made so it wouldn't have made sense to put it on display. Except as a historical artifact of course but I doubt they would have done that back then.

The original telehub at Clanis is long gone so there's no way to check it (and the sim's so messy I actually had to look at the map to make sure I really was on Heterocera and not Jeogeot ;) )

 

For those interested, here is Torley Linden's picture of the Clanis hub:



(Digression: Looking at that pictures, it seems a bit sad. The Lindens - and later the Moles - really put their hearts into that continent and everybody contributed some of their best works to it. Then they just did a quick-and-dirty job for the entry point, the first impression many visitors would get of the continent.)

The Waterhead telehub is still there but it's empty of surprises - at least I couldn't find any. I don't know if there are other telehubs still preserved inworld but if there are, they may be worth checking out.

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irihapeti wrote:

in the Governor Mansion Clementina is a time capsule. Creator is Ryan Linden, Owner is Jake Cellardoor. Date June 2003

Interesting. Do you know if it's still there? The Mansion was restored by a group of volunteers recently and they seem to have been very careful to remove every single original prim, replacing them with copies with their own names as creators.

 


irihapeti wrote:

have always wanted to see what is this texture, as (seems to me maybe dunno for sure) it could be the first snapshot of SL ever taken

Yes, that would be interesting.

The earliest picture I could find at Oz Spade's SL Historical Museum is dated January 26th. Never seen anything from before that.

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Cinnamon Mistwood wrote:

Here is a thread from 2011 with some fun SL facts as well.


Great, thank you Cinnamon!

 

Oh, they mention Harry's Island, one of my personal favorite places! Pooor Harry! :( (In case anybody wants to know what really happened to Harry Linden, he worked at the English LL branch and that closed down of course.)

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ChinRey wrote:


irihapeti wrote:

in the Governor Mansion Clementina is a time capsule. Creator is Ryan Linden, Owner is Jake Cellardoor. Date June 2003

Interesting. Do you know if it's still there?

is in the basement

Is also some pics on the walls from the earliest times. Some from Linden World (the alpha). Also 2 SL maps: map of the first sims, and a second map of the first sims expansion

is also a pic of Steller Sunshine wearing the first ever SL clothing template, on the wall

+

also

some of the things in the capsule are also at the Stillman Bazaar. Have to fossick for them tho in amongst everything else. Is all kinds of ancient stuff in the bazaar. Is pretty interesting what can dig out of there

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irihapeti wrote:

is in the basement

 Me, I usually don't rummage thrugh people's basments when I visit. ;)

 

 

But I had to look of course. Picked a spot at random on the big map to tp to and landed right in front of the time capsule! :D

 


irihapeti wrote
Is pretty interesting what can dig out of there


Yes, it's amazing what you can find at the Bazaar. I once stumbled across a box full of copybotted cars there. It didn't take long before somebody removed that one. Can't imagine why...

The Clanis telehub with Ryan Linden's map inside is at the bazaar too btw. I completely forgot that.

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