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Pamela Galli

"Select" merchants

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Sex Toys don't make frontpage of Amazon.com because as a vending platform they have a select range of products that they are willing to put forth for their "Black Friday" holiday sale, because they, the marketplace, feel that those merchants will bring in good sales and attract good publicity for their sales event.  There is a wide base of legitimate businesses that they are willing to provide the sales opportunity TO of front page, and yes lesser known brands often do get offered positions.  But they are chosen from a select pool.

 

I've never said that this PR stint by LL wasn't a blunder.  It was.  But not a huge one.  I think they just had too narrow a "selection pool" and that is unfortunate.  Everyone else got a reminder that life isn't a level playing field.

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:


Tari Landar wrote:


Theresa Tennyson wrote:


Darrius Gothly wrote:

Ummm .. a very massive and also very final (no way to argue with) bunch of language in the ToS and Guidelines for the Marketplace state that Linden Lab can choose to allow or remove your products at their will.

I kinda think that qualifies as them reserving the right to pick which products they display on the Marketplace just as Amazon chooses what products to list on their site, and just like any Retailer chooses what products to carry in their store.

It can be very reasonably argued that a lot of the value in the Marketplace comes from the fact that Linden Lab routinely lets lots of people show off their stuff with very few introductory requirements. They do take action against folks .. and they do refuse, take down and ban people as well.

So .. where again is this truck-sized hole?

Linden Lab only chooses who to remove, not who to add (unlike some other virtual marketplaces.) Tari's argument was that retailers shouldn't
choose who to advertise
among their sellers to treate everyone "equally." A retail store makes a decision who to "treat equally" before they have anything to advertise at all. In the Marketplace, just like any business of selling, you say that all stores are equal but some are certainly more equal than others.

 

That wasn't my entire argument, but there is a lot more to retailers choosing which products to sell than you think, too. Still the MP/LL does choose who can sell on the MP, whether it's to the same degree as other retailers may differ, but I wouldn't cal that a truck sized hole.

You're still missing the entire point that advertising isn't done by retailers on a whim. It is always an opt-in situation, where the opportunity is
open to all not a select few only, regardless of the reputation or quality of the prduct(s)
. The choice to opt-in, is up to the manufacturer/distributor/merchant(where applicable, like places such as Amazon). The cost for such opportunities is determined by the retailer, based on whatever crtieria they so choose. It's far more complex than a retailer simply saying "I think we should advertise Boby Joe's products, but definitely not Jane Ann's". The latter causes a rift between manufacturer/distributor/merchant and the retailer..and potentially a rift between end-user(ie, retailer's customer) and the retailer. There is a very good reason why advertising is an opt-in thing...because it works!

I think I've figured out the problem we're having understanding each other. In the real world I'm in the entertainment field. It's fundamentally unequal and everyone knows it. Actor A can get $20 million from a producer to make a movie; Actor B can
give
the producer $60 million and not be assured of getting distribution. Not only does everybody not get a chance to be in any given project, many projects are built around pre-selected people. I doubt most people in the entertainment field expect that they
would
be - they'd find the idea absurd. A new actor going into a producer and saying, "How can I get the opportunities and publicity you're giving [famous actor]" would probably get a very rude reply, because the presence of a big name can at least give the possibility of paying everyone's salary.

But you don't hear people in the entertainment industry talking much about "competition." Rivals, yes; enemies maybe; but not so much "competition." The reason is that entertainment isn't usually a zero-sum field. Someone going to a famous movie doesn't mean that they won't go to the raggedyboned plays I help to put on - each one is independent and someone choose to go to one, the other or both.

Second Life products are really a lot closer to "entertainment" than real-world merchandise. A "luxury item" in SL might cost $20. In RL I've bought one bed in fifteen years. In SL I've probably bought a dozen beds in five years between me and my extended family of alts. Not all SL retailers seem to worry much about "competition." Truth Hawks is half-owner of  the Uber shopping event but there are other hair merchants featured there. One of the top car makers in SL rents to two other car makers - I've actually bought more from the "competitive" stores than the owner of the sim, but that doesn't mean that I won't buy from the sim owner if I see something Iike.

Awesome industry to be in, and merchants varied backgrounds always amazes me. Although on this one you're moving the goal posts again. Arguments about free market, competition etc., in this context were related to advertising. In advertising it has pretty much been shown that in the real world it is more or less a level playing field out here.

In RL you lose advertisers when you skew it too much, so generally it's understood or kept to a minimum.

I don't think anyone has a problem with competition in general. Yes there is much unfairness to be had in the business world. I think one of the problems with SL though, is that because it claims to be "virtual" it isn't subject to a proper laws and restrictions. But whether a company should be subject to RL business law and isn't because of fake money and a ToS that came out of a Cracker Jacks box is a story for another day.

At any rate, going to bow out for a few days or so. Helping a friend start a cleaning service which probably means I'll get to personally clean some toilets to train people among other things. +1 for entrepreneurs. But I'll be doing that in another industry that does have a level playing field with bidding and advertising.

 ETA: Re-worded slightly so as not to imply that LL is skirting law, but rather to make a point that RL business restrictions and law should apply to virtual goods and sales as equally as RL goods.

 

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If two people give me advice on how to throw a dart; one of them a butcher and the other a professional archer ... I'm gonna lean toward giving the archer a bit more credence.

Just sayin' ...

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polysail wrote:

Sex Toys don't make frontpage of Amazon.com because as a vending platform they have a select range of products that they are willing to put forth for their "Black Friday" holiday sale, because they, the marketplace, feel that those merchants will bring in good sales and attract good publicity for their sales event.  There is a wide base of legitimate businesses that they are willing to provide the sales opportunity TO of front page, and yes lesser known brands often do get offered positions.  But they are chosen from a
select
pool.

 

I can honestly say, I have never seen Amazon run an advertising or marketing campaign in this manner. That is to say, I have never seen them limit advertising opportunities to only a select pool, for any campaign I have seen, for any reason. Their main goal with ad opportunities, is profit, both long and short term.  I have only seen them leave it open to all, with two minor stipulations of course(product on topic, for topic related campaigns, and must be in "good standing" with Amazon). While what seems like a select pool of merchants/manufacturers/distributors are only offered the positions one might see 'front and center", it really is that they are simply the ones that chose to partake in the opportunity(for a myriad of reasons, including cost). But., that has been my own experience :)

I should probably shut up on the subject, I talk too much, lol, and I believe I've taken us off course now. 

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No Tari, not off center at all.  Others are merely speculating that what LL has done is SOP, you are describing how successful businesses actually operate.

And in any case, what is worthy of aspiring to -- equal opportunity, level playing field - is not defined by what is SOP. 

 

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Or instead of speculating

https://advertising.amazon.com/ad-specs/en/policy/creative-acceptance

 
EDIT : For comparison: LL's version of this same policy :

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1J_GHFMKl8oiXcv4yEiMWbePFTnqFVB2J0eslWZ8crLU/edit

( The fact that it took me to a google doc made me sigh a bit )

Lo and behold ~ LL doesn't stack up to Amazon.com too well.  Probably due to Amazon.com having entire business divisions dedicated to things that LL has to trust one to two people to handle in a few hours of thier payroll time.

 

But that's not the point I've been making.

Any online marketplace, absolutely controls ad content on their website.  It's a public image thing.

Could LL have invested more resources into finding a dedicated group of merchants that they feel are eligible for their marketing campaign they were running ? Absolutely.

Do they actually have the available workforce to actually do that?! ~ Probably not.

Is what they did a slightly lazier version of what any other major online marketplace does?  Yeah~ pretty much.

Could this have been handled better?  Yeah obviously.

Is it that big of a deal that it wasn't handled flawlessly.  No ~ not really.

Can we expect this sort of thing to happen again?  Pretty darn sure.

Does it mean you should stop developing your business for SL?  Absolutely not.  But make sure, that you as a business have many distributors, not just LL.  Diversification is important.  ( Unless of course you're only on SL for fun ~ in which case why are you even reading this thread!  Boooring!! )

Should I as a merchant stop selling adult themed items~ since that guarantees that I'll never get the spotlight ad spot?   Pfshh as if I would!!

 

Aaaand with that ~ I'm done with this thread~  Back to work for me!!

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polysail wrote:

Or instead of speculating

 

I don't have to speculate, when I already know how ads are handled, but thanks for posting this so others could see it as well. It might actually make what I had to say previously, more clear(or might not, who knows, lol)

It doesn't negate anything I have said. The *opportunity* to advertise with Amazon, is still open for all. Of course ad content  itself has rules, it has rules nearly everywhere(barring some few exceptions, wherein no one gives a rat's left nut what you put in your ad, but those are a very tiny minority). They also have to abide by whatever international, national, state, and local laws they are legaly obligated to follow.

Amazon still doesn't choose who they offer the opportunity to advertise, as you, and others, have suggested, based on traffic, sales, reputation, etc...or even the potential for those things.

There is a difference between allowing open advertising opportunities to all, with rules regarding the content in said ads, and only selecting a few and allowing only them the opportunity to advertise in the first place. Your posts suggest you believe the latter takes place, when it's actually the former. We weren't discusing ad content, we were discussing advertising opportunities. Though they go hand in hand, they are not the same thing.

It's a topic of interest to me, because it was, has been, is, and likely will continue to be be in the future, my livelihood, so I have to understand how it works in order to perform my job and be successful at it.(and, occasionally my kids like to eat, so, there's that too). 

Still, a very good topic indeed, I enjoy a good discussion/debate, and I've thoroughly enjoyed this thread too, in between waiting for my labs to open back up so I can finish my assignments for today, which are, sadly, more important than my 'net browsing. Real world problems eh?

Ok, now I realy will hush, because I'm beating a dead horse, I think, and it's entirely likely some will just look at the two "sides" as it were, as bantering semantics back and forth, lol. 

 

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(Call this my "last words" on the subject of this thread too...)

Those of us with a lot of tread worn from our shoes on this platform have witnessed a very disconcerting decline over the years. Members of our community that used to argue Pro-Linden have been seen in this thread ... now arguing Anti-Linden. That alone should worry any business leader anxious to survive until tomorrow. But it hasn't.

Daily, weekly or quarterly updates on the financial health of the platform and the company that owns it have witnessed a steady decline as well. Again an indicator of directional failure that should alert careful thinkers into casting about for better ways to move forward. But it hasn't.

Tons and tons of pixels worth of commentary, feedback and inner feelings have appeared here and in 1000's of other venues. Pixels don't weigh much, so you can do the math and realize how much has been said on this and directly related topics. Information .. good solid honest and reliable information .. is the Manna from Heaven for most businesses. Smart people with successes under their belt know that they usually must pay through the nose for such good info. It should please the hands at the helm to have all this for free. But it hasn't.

Our voices, our businesses and our actions have received scorn, ridicule and derision (and at times even personal attacks that reach beyond the platform into our real lives) as though we have been doing nothing more than just whinging or griping to elevate our own status. We have been called all manner of names, accused of participating in conspiracies, and even challenged on those subjects about which we have crafted long-term and very successful RL lives and families. Our experience should have been used to gain and grow, and we should have been seen as those with real investment that we want to see increase just as Linden Lab wants their bottom line to grow too. But it hasn't.

The arrows continue to point down. The outcome continues to draw closer to darkened halls and an end to this absolutely wonderful and awe-inspiring experiment. And management continues to do absolutely everything possible except take responsibility and do things differently.

Over my lifetime I came to refer to myself as "the one that floats loose from the crows nest". Meaning I hang on until the last visible tip of the ship is sinking below the waterline. I'm gonna do that here too. (Why change at this age? LOL)

But WHY??!? Why do I have to dig my fingernails into the platform, hanging on until that last last LAST second? When so much is available, so many are screaming to help, so much is right at their fingertips that can be used to rescue or at least stabilize this ever-eroding business ... WHY?

Because ... not a friggen clue. (giant sigh)

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Tari Landar wrote:


polysail wrote:

Or instead of speculating

 

I don't have to speculate, when I already know how ads are handled, but thanks for posting this so others could see it as well. It might actually make what I had to say previously, more clear(or might not, who knows, lol)

It doesn't negate anything I have said. The *opportunity* to advertise with Amazon, is still open for all. Of course
ad content
 itself has rules, it has rules nearly everywhere(barring some few exceptions, wherein no one gives a rat's left nut what you put in your ad, but those are a very tiny minority). They also have to abide by whatever international, national, state, and local laws they are legaly obligated to follow.

Amazon still doesn't choose
who
they offer the opportunity to advertise, as you, and others, have suggested, based on traffic, sales, reputation, etc...or even the potential for those things.

There is a difference between allowing open advertising opportunities to all, with rules regarding the content in said ads, and only selecting a few and allowing only them the opportunity to advertise in the first place. Your posts suggest you believe the latter takes place, when it's actually the former. We weren't discusing ad content, we were discussing advertising opportunities. Though they go hand in hand, they are not the same thing.

It's a topic of interest to me, because it was, has been, is, and likely will continue to be be in the future, my livelihood, so I have to understand how it works in order to perform my job and be successful at it.(and, occasionally my kids like to eat, so, there's that too). 

Still, a very good topic indeed, I enjoy a good discussion/debate, and I've thoroughly enjoyed this thread too, in between waiting for my labs to open back up so I can finish my assignments for today, which are, sadly, more important than my 'net browsing. Real world problems eh?

Ok, now I realy will hush, because I'm beating a dead horse, I think, and it's entirely likely some will just look at the two "sides" as it were, as bantering semantics back and forth, lol. 

 

But this isn't advertising, it's promotion. With advertising the assumption is that the advertiser will give money to the one putting up the ad in order to get access to the walled garden set aside for advertisers. The group putting the ad up doesn't care about who is in the walled garden as long as they put in the money and they their presence doesn't end up being a strong negative, which is why there are advertising content rules. Everyone's money is worth exactly the same amount, so everyone can be allowed to access the advertising area.

Promotion is generally expected to benefit both parties in some way other than strictly financially - such as traffic or reputation. Not everything has the same promotional value and there's no objective way to equalize things.

If you watch the Tonight Show, some of the time you'll be watching advertisements, which are open to all (who have the money), and the rest of the time you'll be watching something that the producers think will make people watch the Tonight Show. Some of those things are people who are promoting projects they're working on, which will have a similar effect  to advertising for those projects, but they're there because the producers think you'll tune in to watch them do it instead of watching something else or reading a book.  In order to even be considered to be on you need to have some sort of unquantifiable value, and if you don't have it/your agent can't convince them that you do have it, you'll not get on the show because there are plenty of others who do and this is something that money can't buy (even though some have tried.)

With the stores you're dealing with, they can afford to treat their suppliers "equally" because they've already gone through a selection process that means they aren't carrying anything that won't bring them some sort of value if advertised or promoted. It also sounds like you're dealing with manufacturers who have a certain amount of intangible value already.

With the Marketplace, there's no pre-selection process. The Lab has decided it's to their benefit to do this because it doesn't really cost them much and there's the blind squirrel/acorn factor, but - now I'll be blunt - the vast majority of Marketplace stores have zero promotional value. On the other hand, some stores do have promotional value, at least for certain SL populations. If you're running a promotion (as opposed to selling advertising) there's no way to equalize this.

We don't actually know the criteria for selection to this promotion (other than nobody in this thread meeting them), nor do we know if there were other stores that were asked and said "no." Under the circumstances having a promotion at all probably wasn't a great idea, but I don't have access to the numbers or the ability to tell the future so I can't say for sure.

 

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Your point is well made Theresa .. but sadly it misses the most vital aspect of this fiasco.

Promotions are indeed most often one-to-one arrangements made between a "Face" entity and a "Content" entity. In the case of the Tonight Show (for example) the Face is the show and the Content is some company that wants their product or service displayed. An example I see more often are such things as "Closed Captioning provided by ..." announcements that immediately segue into the company's commercial.

But the Marketplace is not so deep in organization as the intricate chains of Shows, Advertisers, Agencies and the like as is the show business market. The SL Marketplace is very much flatter and should stay that way.

By "Flatter" I mean that the Class Society is not allowed to take seed and grow here. Even the lowliest, newest and least skilled among the Merchants deserves and should be offered the same opportunities as the most skilled, richest and with the broadest product line.

This is something that simply fails to stick to the brains of those in charge. Second Life succeeded NOT because of the beauty of its builds, or the breathtaking awesomeness of the sky .. or how jiggly the jiggly bits are. Second Life succeeded because everyone could come here, everyone could DO any thing .. and even the ugliest of prim abominations could be beautiful in someone's eyes. Because they did it themselves.

Yes, a vast majority of things for sale on the Marketplace should never EVER appear in a promotional piece or advertisement with the Linden Lab name on it. But the people that made those? They know it too. And they won't clamor for attention like that. It's not what they want.

There are however a very large .. very appreciable community of people that ARE serious about things. That do have businesses that run with every bit of precision, worry and care as does a Fortune 500. In fact, most times you'll find folks here even more attentive .. precisely because "I made that!"

Linden Lab has the ability to treat those people fairly and with dignity, just as it has the ability to treat Nike or Coca-Cola or any of the other big names that have come and gone in SL. Even if the net gain from a single couch sale, or a pair of boots is small .. the overall gain is immense. The fact that they would be working WITH their customers instead of against them .. would multiply the benefits from their efforts .. not divide or diminish them as they have with this latest go-round.

Your examples .. and your perspective are correct .. in the environment and situations you describe. But this is a much different place in many respects. When Linden Lab does things like this, it shows all too painfully how they are failing to understand their product, their customers .. and why they continue to see a decline in income and the user base .. day after day after day.

"No matter how big your arrow, if you're not aimed at the right target .... YOU MISSED!"

ETA: Clean up some grammar and add my slogan for today.

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I would bet that most all of us know the difference between a Network or LL promoting the entire enterprise in general, and which floats all boats, and advertising, which showcases  specific products or services, and encourages customers to divert their limited resources to those above others they may be contemplating. 

 

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

Your point is well made Theresa

No it's not... her point is entirely irrelevant.

@Theresa... you said...

 


Theresa Tennyson wrote:

If you watch the Tonight Show, some of the time you'll be watching advertisements, which are open to all (who have the money), and the rest of the time you'll be watching
something that the producers think will make people watch the Tonight Show.
Some of those things are people who are promoting projects they're working on, which will have a similar effect  to advertising for those projects, but they're there because the producers think you'll tune in to watch them do it instead of watching something else or reading a book.  In order to even be considered to be on you need to have some sort of unquantifiable value, and if you don't have it/your agent can't convince them that you
do
have it, you'll not get on the show because there are plenty of others who do and this is something that money can't buy (even though some have tried.)

This analogy is way off... a nightly talkshow can in no way be considered comparative to the administrators of an online marketplace.

I fail to see why you take it upon yourself to question why some merchants believe that LL's actions in this specific instance were unfair.  If what LL has done negatively affects people's feelings about the platform, it does you, nor anyone else, any good to try to convince them that their feelings are invalid.  It matters not whether they're valid or invalid.... they're still going to feel them.

I'm not saying that your general assertions are wrong... they very well may be.  But, if you want to argue against people's valid concerns, I suggest that you first acknowledge those concerns, then offer an alternative.  Otherwise, you just seem like a fool who has nothing to offer but bad analogies.

...Dres

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OMFG!

How the hell did I miss this? I was on vacation when this was announced. Again, I have to say, OMFG.

This is ridiculous! What little respect I had for LL is completely lost. I think it is definitely time to abandon my sim.

 

Hey Pam, you got a small plot I can rent? lol

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Careful, as you can see, there are those who believe we should not 1) hold the opinion we do, and if we do, 2) should not express it.

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I've already shown my cards .. as it were. I've already said I'm staying and carrying on. Even though I may shout at the top of my lungs that "I'm DONE! I'm OUTTA here!" ... I won't be going. It's just angry hyperbole talking.

But I'm also at one end of the extreme in attitude and response. I'm the guy on the far end that no matter what will hang out and make it work, stick it though somehow. The air is rare out this far .. but I can manage.

Except .. there's all those 1000s of people nearer the middle from me. There are so many more, many MANY more people that aren't as bull-headed as me. They see the same things I see, they may even agree with me on my conclusions from those things too. But their final decision won't be the same as mine. Their decision will be to not say a word .. they'll just leave.

And that's what buffaloes me. Not that they'd leave. That's basic human nature. Extremes are small in number but big in volume. The middle .. now that's where the real power lay. The middle people are the ones that ultimately decide whether a platform .. or company .. thrives or dives.

I guess that explains the steady and constant decline. Those folks in the middle? They're voting .. silently but still voting .. with their feet.

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Pamela Galli wrote:

Careful, as you can see, there are those who believe we should not 1) hold the opinion we do, and if we do, 2) should not express it.

Well, you know me. I can't resist.

The more I'm seeing from LL, and hearing, the less I want to be involved. They are showing me that they don't have the faintest idea what they are doing, nor why SL is what it is. The more relevants tidbits I keep hearing about Sansar also go against the real spirit of SL. They are cutting their own throats, and it's painful to watch.

You know, my dad just found out he won't be getting even 25% of the pension he was promised. I feel the same way about eventually being right about SL and Sansar as I was right about my dad's pension. I can't deny what is written on the wall tho. With a different mindset, this all could have been much different.

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Funny thing is, I just talked to a bunch of designers who want me to rig their clothing, and possibly create weighted bodysuits for all the different mesh bodies on the market. I already sell a set of bodysuits with weights designers can easily transfer, just not for the mesh bodies. I may include some of the mesh body weights, but I may need some approval from the mesh body designers. Yes, of course I do this to earn a little, but also because it helps so many designers be competive in the market.

So, no matter what LL does, I'll likely be around to try and help the little guy.

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Tamara Artis wrote:

This is serious business and LL picked designers who work hard throughout the year,
for many years
and who will represent SL in the best possible way.


This is ONLY in relation to the single point I have in the quote - that not all of the picks are old brands. One was actually new - but not hard to see why.

One of the brands picked in this thing has been [name hidden].

I like [name hidden] a lot - really really nice stuff there and they cater to my preferred mesh body: Belleza Freya.

BUT they are not established. The store is probably only a year or so old, and it was a ghost town of a shop before it got into Maitreya's dev kit. But it does make some of your other points on why brands were picked.

What got [name hidden] where it is now - possibly the top or brand in SL, is quality, perserverance, responsiveness, and trend awareness.

In trend awareness [name hidden] is always on top of the newest angle in the fads, they are always there joining all the events, they get blog coverage, they actually allow people with no PIOF into their store (at least one poster in this thread does not - something I know because I often shop using an alt that has no PIOF to whom I send money).

[name hidden] is responsive. I and a few others complained about one script they had messing up our outfits, and shortly after their releases contained an option that did not have that script (auto-hide). MANY sl brands will actually attack their own customers when criticisms like this occur. Others will ignore them (why I stopped shoping at my previously favorite store, [name withheld] - and while I won't name them here, I have called them out on it elsewhere. being nonresponsive can hurt your brand a LOT).

They have quality. The stuff just works, right, with the things they support. This is relevant... many merchants don't keep up with script changes, some even list support for things they don't support (I've seen many a 'fitmesh outfit' that didn't fit the bodies it claimed to fit - including ones for the default body that didn't even fit the default body...). It may be unfair that they have an advantage of insider dev kits from other brands... but this advantage came because they negotiated it.

In perserverance, they keep coming out with new stuff almost weekly. They make a whole series of things for every cycle of monthly events. They promote it everywhere they can.

As a result, you have someone coming out of nowhere, and becomming the top brand in under a year - because they earned it.

 

I have no response to the main issue here though. I'm not well informed enough to make one.

This was ONLY in relation to the single point I have in the quote.

 

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

Funny thing is, I just talked to a bunch of designers who want me to rig their clothing, and possibly create weighted bodysuits for all the different mesh bodies on the market. I already sell a set of bodysuits with weights designers can easily transfer, just not for the mesh bodies. I may include some of the mesh body weights, but I may need some approval from the mesh body designers. Yes, of course I do this to earn a little, but also because it helps so many designers be competive in the market.

As a customer I seriously hope you are able to sell those kits for the mesh bodies. I really want to see more designers able to support them. I may like the top brand in this a lot, but I don't want everything I own to use the same designer's style... :)

So I wish you as much success as is possible in that endevour - as it will be a major boon to every consumer in SL if these bodies can get better support.

 

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To my eyes .. you make a lot of excellent points. The attributes you describe that are exhibited by [name withheld] are indeed those that can catapult even brand new enterprises to the top of the heap. (BTW: I get some weird stores under "name withheld" .. you sure about the name? *wink*)

But to springboard off your observations: Those same attributes have been and are daily being ascribed to many other stores .. by equally astute and observant shoppers. Those qualities are not limited to a small handful of stores or Merchants. Even names that get dissed in here and elsewhere, also get equally praised. It really is a "perspective" kinda thing.

Which is why many object so strenuously to Linden Lab's capricious selection of Merchants. There are LOTS of good candidates, and it should be up to those candidates if they wish to expend the effort to participate in a promotion like LL created.

Sadly, from scattered reports, it seems those chosen by LL weren't interested in it anyway and thus didn't prepare for it like a really motivated Merchant would have. So .. bottom line .. LL invested a lot of their own weight into something they didn't prepare or plan for .. and with less than hoped-for results. Yeah .. not good.

The real goal here .. despite many assertions to the contrary .. is the same as yours. NOT to diss someone or disparage their products, quality or service. Instead it is to remind LL that it's not THEIR job to do it either. Let the Merchants invest the amount of effort and style they want. Let the market decide who is a leader. Let the Merchants decide how much they can afford. (in time and money)

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

 


As a customer I seriously hope you are able to sell those kits for the mesh bodies. I really want to see more designers able to support them. I may like the top brand in this a lot, but I don't want everything I own to use the same designer's style...
:)

So I wish you as much success as is possible in that endevour - as it will be a major boon to every consumer in SL if these bodies can get better support.

I wouldn't get your hope up. Many of the most popular mesh body designers are pretty secretive about their bodies. With many of the new advancements, who knows where things will go. There is even talk about more sliders being available to us. So, I could envision a new mesh body based entirely on the default, but with all the qualities of fitted mesh. As I have talked about before, fitting fitted mesh clothing to a fitted mesh body is actually technically more sound than fitted mesh clothing on the default avatar. The problem I see is all the crazy differences in weights for these different mesh bodies. I can see a reason to just put out a standard avatar that matches the default exactly. If LL does add more sliders for us to use, I will likely put out some kind of mesh body, just so clothing designers have a simple and quick system to create for. Who know tho, everything is up in the air at this point, lol

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