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A little FYI for you merchants out there...


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Anestacia wrote:

For mesh that can't be moved rigged,fitmesh there's no point having it modify because you can't move it, I suppose you could tint the colour if it's modify but then again most of the time it ruins the item

Rigged meshes often contain scripts that I want to remove.

Here's what I always want to do with rigged mesh: (i) make a copy, (ii) wear it and wear the accompanying HUD, (iii) set the colors/textures, (iv) detach it, and—here comes the clue—(v) REZ IT ON THE FLOOR AND REMOVE THE SCRIPT(S)!, (vi) take back to my inv, (vii) wear it and make SL a better place by carrying less unnecessary scripts around.

How's that for a no point having it modify?

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Beyond tint, I'm happy to provide a UV map and AO map because I understand that some customers have an interest in making and applying their own textures. I have no problem supporting their creativity.

 

Plus as the other poster said, scripts and linking are valid requirements.

 

No mod has very little use case.

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Well you dont need to have mod perm if the script as a delete function from the menu. 

If i had smth to ask, its that : a script with a delete button in the menu.

Now for any other modification of a rigged mesh, the tint, the texture or whatever else and even the encouragement of creativity, there are a lot of FP mesh packs for creators they may buy and use.

I dont make FP items, im just starting to create my own meshes, but even if all the meshes of my items were my original creation, i would still sell them with copy perm only, unless i decide to sell FP packs.

Each of my textures are hours of work, sometimes day, i see no reason for distort it as i force noone to buy my items, so if they dont like the texture they simply can avoid to buy it.

But i think that s again the debate between modelers vs texturers. Why the hell a texturer, someone who spend hours of work in creating the best texture s/he thinks for the clothe would like to allow ppl to distort his/her work after they buy ?

Its a bit like you buy a painting from Picasso and you draw over it. Of course, nothing prevents you from doing it, but there is no sense in paying so much while you can just buy a virgin canvas. And im not sure Picasso would have liked it either.

 

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

But i think that s again the debate between modelers vs texturers. Why the hell a texturer, someone who spend hours of work in creating the best texture s/he thinks for the clothe would like to allow ppl to distort his/her work after they buy ?

When you buy something in RL, there's no such thing as no mod.  ANYTHING I buy I can choose to change or destroy at will simply because it's mine at that point, not yours, mine.  No mod is simply an alien concept.

Don't delude yourself into believing that the texture is a work of art.  It's just part of the product.  It doesn't matter whether it's a texture that has had hours of work, a model that has had hours of work, a script, an animation or a sound that have all had hours of work in the making, they're NOT works of art but when put up for sale, merely products.

You mention creating the best texture he or she thinks for the clothes but guess what...there's someone better who may want to improve it for personal use or sell their extra texture and if someone likes their texture, they need to buy your product.

I'm nor arguing that people have a choice just as much as a creator can choose to set items no mod but really, many of them should come down from their pedestal, it's lonely up there at times.

Is it better that someone buys a no mod item with that "work of art" texture, only to get fed up that they can't do anything of their choice with it and it sits in inventory for nobody to see that "art" or merely gets deleted?  If that happens, aren't you upset that they and nobody else gets to see that piece of art or is it ok because you have their money at that point and if so, a re-evaluation of principles is perhaps in order.

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When you buy a dress in RL i challenge you to change the fabric.

If you do, you will all redo completely the dress and resew it. 

There is no law that forbide you to do, but technically it is just easier to buy a paper template, cut your fabric and resew it all. You dont need the dress all done for resewing one. and you may even draw the paper template by yourself if you are skilled for that.

In SL, you can buy your own mesh template.

It's not a matter of being on a pedestal or not. 

Among the huge amounts of clothes i have from other designers, none of them gave me the willing to express my creativity over them and so i never felt the need to have a mod perm.

When i feel the need to express my creativity, if i cant create myself the mesh, then i buy one that is done for that purpose.

Im not talking for non rigged items, which are different needs regarding perms. But for rigged meshes, really i dont see the need, except rare exceptions.

I will also point to you that i never said my textures are "work of art" but they are creations, mines, hours of work, mine and i decide if want to let ppl distort them or not. SL is huge, there is room for all kind of merchants. I force noone to buy my stuffs if they want smth to modify and play with. And i have no pb with that at all.

(im going to avoid to answer to your last question bec its really pointless in my opinion)

 

Edited for clarification of the first paragraph

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

When you buy a dress in RL i challenge you to change the fabric.

Im not talking for non rigged items, which are different needs regarding perms. But for rigged meshes, really i dont see the need, except rare exceptions.

I will also point to you that i never said my textures are "work of art" but they are creations, mines, hours of work, mine and i decide if want to let ppl distort them or not. SL is huge, there is room for all kind of merchants. I force noone to buy my stuffs if they want smth to modify and play with. And i have no pb with that at all.


Of course the fabric of a RL dress can be changed, altered, bits added, parts removed.  Scissors...  Whole industries exist to modify clothing.

Rigged items, you've been given examples of.  Adding and removing scripts, linking objects, changing textures and other attributes about those textures.  The *only* thing that can't be changed is the size and shape.

Yes, you have a choice about who buys and for everyone who doesn't there's one less advert and one less example of the item on display.

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Sassy Romano wrote:


  Adding and removing scripts,

There are scripts with menu that have a "delete script " buttons.


Sassy Romano wrote:

 linking objects, 

 

Linking objects that is not rigged on smth rigged, is something i would highly recommend to not do. As the object wont get the rigging of the item anyway and depending on where the rigged item is attached, the linked one will not move correctly. I always seperate any addition i do to a clothe and set them to the best attachement point that work for it.

 


Sassy Romano wrote:


changing textures and other attributes about those textures. 

Yes, if i wanted to sell my textures FP. But its not my intention at all. i dont sell my textures full perm. Maybe one day, but right now, its not my choice. 
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I said ADDING and removing.  I'm not talking about colour change or old resize concept scripts with a delete once used.  Think more widely.

Linking a non rigged object to a rigged item is absolutely fine.  if I want say an unrigged sword  in the hand and a dress that's rigged (not a great example but..) that's easy to do.  Link them and wear the sword in the hand.  The weighted vertices will go where they're supposed to go.  Similarly, someone else wanted to cut down on attachment points. Linking two rigged items is also fine, they go where they're supposed to go.  There's no issue at all as long as you understand it.

I was talking about the attributes of textures that someone may wish to substitute, this has nothing to do with full perm textures at all!  Just to be pedantic, you don't really have that much of a choice anyway, your textures are being delivered to cache full perm to everyone that sees the item but that's a totally different issue. :)

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Sassy Romano wrote:

 

I was talking about the attributes of textures that someone may wish to substitute, this has nothing to do with full perm textures at all!  Just to be pedantic, you don't really have that much of a choice anyway, your textures are being delivered to cache full perm to everyone that sees the item but that's a totally different issue.
:)

yeah, but there is a big difference, for me, in doing it with my conscent or without my conscent. And i may have some plea if that happens without my conscent and i figure it out. 

(and im not sure that saying such thing on and on in the forum, is really the best thing to do ... really. The more you say, the more ppl will know and at some point this can be taken as an incitation to steal intellectual property. Did you think to it ? ).

 

i was not talking either about color change and "old resize script" . If its just about adding a new texture then u dont need to buy a dress ready to wear, but just a template that will come with AO and UV map. 

That's my point. 

 

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  • Well you dont need to have mod perm if the script as a delete function from the menu. 

Indeed. If, if, if. If that were the case, I would not have begun this thread here. Yet, 99.9999% of all the rigged mesh HUDs don't have such a delete button. Only certain resizer scripts do.

 

  • there are a lot of FP mesh packs for creators they may buy and use.

But those aren't the 1,000,000 items I mentioned.

 

  • Each of my textures are hours of work, sometimes day, i see no reason for distort it as i force noone to buy my items, so if they dont like the texture they simply can avoid to buy it.

That's what I said: and the consequence is that it won't be bought by me (and, who knows, how many others?)

 

  • Its a bit like you buy a painting from Picasso and you draw over it. Of course, nothing prevents you from doing it, but there is no sense in paying so much while you can just buy a virgin canvas. And im not sure Picasso would have liked it either.

No, it's not a bit like buying a paining from Picasso. After all, I'm not a bit like George Clooney, wanting to buy from yopur store, either.

 

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lol, im pretty sure 90 % of the 1 000 000 items your mentioned have been created from FP mesh templates.

And it s understandable they are only copy, bec otherwise it would harm the FP templates market.

Well, i hope you finally find what you are looking for.

Unlike maybe a lot of other creators, my mindset is not to create under the pression of what would like the crowd. I dont make this for having RL incomes, i have a RL job that i like and my SL store is one of the way i use to express my creativity. If it meets some customers expectations enough for they buy my stuffs, then its even more delight for me, but im wont cry if someone tells me i dont fit with their expectations. I know for long, that noone can be to the taste of everyone, i have no pb with that. 

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

(and im not sure that saying such thing on and on in the forum, is really the best thing to do ... really. The more you say, the more ppl will know and at some point this can be taken as an incitation to steal intellectual property. Did you think to it ? ).

i was not talking either about color change and "old resize script" . If its just about adding a new texture then u dont need to buy a dress ready to wear, but just a template that will come with AO and UV map. 

That's my point. 

Last item, yes fine if the item is also sourced from a template but i'm not limiting the disussion to that.

As for discussing the absolutely dire way that Linden Lab fails to provide any security about how texture assets are stored in the local viewer cache, that has been discussed in a different thread in detail.

Obfuscation is not a route ot security!  Good security is open to analysis and open scrutiny, that's how it's supposed to work.  Weaknesses are identified and addressed...except for Linden Lab who really do demonstrate very poor approach to security throughout.

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Irrespective of the merits of different permissions, this is a free market. Meaning, I am free to make what I want and anyone is free to buy or not. I don't have as my target market "everyone".  Every now and then someone takes it upon themselves to tell me they won't buy something because they don't like something about it or some policy of mine and that I am losing business for that reason -- as if I want to sell to the broadest possible market and am desperate to grab every Linden I can. But I don't and am not. I happily serve the people who do like how I choose to create my products and what my policies are, and I have been earning a good living doing that since 2009. 

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So, you wont buy unscripted no mod mesh clothing? Why not? What possible reason do you need to mod non scripted mesh clothing?

As has been said, i get that some few may want to add bows or what not to the item, which usually screws it up if its rigged mesh. And the color change thing.. yeah.. i sell clothing in a rainbow of colors.. Why would i let you buy one dress in white and then just make copies in various colors for free? What sense does that make?

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 I've encountered sellers who list things as modify if it has a resizer script in it.  On the other hand, I know I don't don't list things as modify if one or more components (say a script) is not modify even though all the prim/mesh components have modify permissions.

 

And of course, sometimes the wrong boxes end up being checked as a mistake when the item is listed.

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If you are a creater merchant, you will make considerably more money selling your products with copy/mod perms over just transfer perms or transfer/mod perms. Selling your products with both copy/mod and transfer perms is ideal for money making, but if you jack up the relative price of the copy/mod version some customers might get the feeling that you are only interested in squeezing them out of their money and so they might avoid buying anything from you as a negative p.r. responce, therefore making that technique counterproductive money making wise. 

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I would like to point out two things. The first is if you don't like it then don't buy it. Don't force your opinions on anyone else because everyone has their own on this topic. The second is Gacha creations are trans only and a lot of people go gaga over them so to me this topic is one with no actual purpose but trolling.

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  • 3 weeks later...


Madelaine McMasters wrote:


Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

Its a bit like you buy a painting from Picasso and you draw over it.  

I wouldn't mind painting over much of Picasso's work, and all of Pollack's.

;-).

Paint over it? Restoration could be included as "mod" in some ways. Paintings are more like historical musuem peices or wannabe museum peices. This is digital art! The only art i can think of that is digital and also in a publicish medium (the web in this case) is the dudes who make websites and basically sell the code and the web domain. The owners can run it and show it, either on a monitor or to the whole web because the www address is registered no one else can have it! Sure, they can make a .net version but you get a certificate and the artist should also be keeping that history alive so it can be seen that it is the real www adress associated with his peice.

If we are watching facimilies of things people created, and all of digital art is not "real" than are we similar to photographers and Picasso says we are all perverts? Hhhm, so...yeah, lets make paper hats of his paintings....so, who has the money to buy us all a Picasso to do this with?

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No mods works because a person can no it was not modified, or at least was more likely not modified.

Why? Um, people who sell no copy "art" peices that also have trans. Did starax do this? not sure, but he was a famous SL "sculptor" that predates scultpies. They where prim peices, maybe he was more famous for his wand though! They sold for a bit, not sure about these days.

More or lessthat is the strongest case, and while people scoff and claim it is not like Picasso the peices sold for a bit compared to the average price of hair on the marketplace.

So, there is a use and a market.

The OP totally knows this, he is not looking for that. So, no argument. no mods has a reason, it is personal and no one is forcing anyone to buy them. There is a wanted forum for those who want to get stuff they can't find, 3D asset creators/artists are there to help with varying degree of terms, prices and deleivery times.

This concludes out discussion today, thanks for attending and wish you all happy experiences!

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  • 2 weeks later...
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