I am a Business owner and SL will not help me

[Hoshi Kenin]

You need to consider RL legal action.   LL do not like this, at all.  Which should tell you everything.  Their TOS is seldom challenged, but is by no means impervious to robust RL legal 'challenges', where necessary.

 

 It all depends on the  amount in question you feel scammed out of, thanks to LL's poor customer service (which some regard as a  legend in the industry).

 

[Lexbot Sinister]

Linden Lab had nothing to do with your transaction, why it's not up to them to refund you any money. Linden Lab didn't scam you.

 

It's like this. Imagine Second Life is a bus, a vehicle for strangers to gather and go places. What you did, was making an agreement with a stranger on the bus, to pay them some money for something. It's all good, it's up to you to trust a stranger. But that stranger took your money and got off the bus.

Now you want the bus driver to pay you back for your loss.

The bus driver is not police, or a judge and jury, and will not go look for the stranger for you.

[BaronGuntharBerntVonVought]

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HughJegow wrote:

An internet agreement is not worth the paper it is not written on. Take the ToS for example . . .

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So inaccurate and untrue. In the US internet agreements done in the form of electronically signed documents are legally binding but I suppose you've never been a real world lawyer, business owner, or contractor otherwise you would know these things. A contract does not have to be printed on paper to be legally binding again something you would know if you ever had to deal with any type of contract law.

[Sassy Romano]

Correct, though there's a huge difference between "legally binding agreement" and "enforceable agreement" in practice.

 

That's why written agreements are preferred in either hard or soft copy, signed by pen or digitally approved, irrefutable certificates. From the original post though, it seems quite clear that none of these exist and it was an exchange of IM perhaps or maybe a note card?

 

So let's see, take that to court...

 

"Someone else in the house must have used my PC to login, my password wasn't that secret, I didn't make a contract with anyone."

 

Your move...

[JoJo Aurelia]

Second Life is the Wild West. There is nothing legally binding between avatars that is done in world. If you want to have a legal binding agreement, take it out of Second Life and have it legally signed with an attorney. Second Life customer service I will help you if you have legitimate technical problems. They do not get involved with Avatar disputes. Read the Terms of Service. You stated on the title of this post that you are a business owner. Unless you own land, or are having a marketplace problem. That statement does not mean anything to Linden Labs. There are a million business owners and Second Life. You've been given good advice when this forum, and I don't think anybody else can help you.

[Pamela Galli]

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Lexbot Sinister wrote:

Linden Lab had nothing to do with your transaction, why it's not up to them to refund you any money. Linden Lab didn't scam you.

 

It's like this. Imagine Second Life is a bus, a vehicle for strangers to gather and go places. What you did, was making an agreement with a stranger on the bus, to pay them some money for something. It's all good, it's up to you to trust a stranger. But that stranger took your money and got off the bus.

Now you want the bus driver to pay you back for your loss.

The bus driver is not police, or a judge and jury, and will not go look for the stranger for you.

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Good analogy, except many in and out of SL think the bus driver is their Mom, who cares deeply about every imagined injustice rhat befalls them.

[Bree Giffen]

LL should definitely address this type of problem in Sansar and in SL as well. LL has control of everyone's accounts, LL has the ability to verify evidence, and they have control over the flow of lindens. While it's true that there are no laws to persecute virtual world scammers/thieves there should be laws that can be upheld in the virtual world. LL should be the leader in this.

Instead of hiring more customer service to resolve resdient disputes over linden dollars they could create something like a virtual world contract generator. that would not be legally binding but binding within SL. 'Binding in SL' means that a customer service person working for LL could read the contract and make a determination if the contract was breached and refund money. LL could offer several pre-written contracts ( and create more in the future) where the residents would simply need to identify themselves as to which party they are in the contract and 'sign' the contract. The contract would need to include specific terms that LL customer service could verify if the terms were fulfilled.

When someone signs the contract, they get informed that they are bound to the contract and breaching it could result in LL getting their money. LL could even prevent the money from being cashed out until the contract is completed.

[Perrie Juran]

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Bree Giffen wrote:

<snip>

, LL has the ability to verify evidence,    

</snip>

 

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No they do not.  They have no subpoena power.

And while LL can at their discretion terminate any account for any or no reason at all, for them to start judge and jury in these instances could open them to a huge legal can of worms.  Especially because they lack the ability to verify the evidence.

Additionally, who is going to absorb the cost of doing this even should they decide to get involved?

[Sassy Romano]

Given LL's ability to moderate these forums fairly and act upon Marketplace Reviews or MP rule breaches correctly, I can't say that i'd give any hope to the notion of LL staff overseeing contracts.  Oh please no.

[Pamela Galli]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Bree Giffen wrote:

<snip>

, LL has the ability to verify evidence,    

</snip>

 

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No they do not.  They have no subpoena power.

And while LL can at their discretion terminate any account for any or no reason at all, for them to start judge and jury in these instances could open them to a huge legal can of worms.  Especially because they lack the ability to verify the evidence.

Additionally, who is going to absorb the cost of doing this even should they decide to get involved?

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Agree, no way would LL ever be able to investigate the constant flood of resident disputes, which is why they say up front they will not. They would have to quadruple their workforce and spend all their time investigating evidence. Reminds me of when I had to sort out playground disputes when I taught third grade -- I finally told them to sort it out thmselves and then they could go play, which they did in about 30 sec.

[Bree Giffen]

I started writing out how the contracts would work by reducing the amount of work a customer service person would need to do but after some thought I believe that a contract would still require too much time and expertise from the customer service person. It might work for something like a rental contract but if someone was trying to commision another for an animation or script it would be hard for the customer service person to evaluate an animation or a script. I think there would be too many complex agreements that the contracts would not be able to prevent a majority of disputes.